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Why are atheists polite on this website?

GOP
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6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.
Crescendo
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6/5/2014 3:19:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM, GOP wrote:
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.

It's because they're decent people. When having been raised in a moral society, they're about as moral as everybody else.
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HumbleThinker1
Posts: 144
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6/5/2014 8:52:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM, GOP wrote:
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.

You could replace atheists with any group and on this website to real life and you'd be left with the same basic question: why do people behave politely?
Bullish
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6/5/2014 8:53:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am an atheist. There are many reasons why atheists tend to be courteous on DDO and in other places. I'll list them.

1. You perception - You as a Christian differ from atheists in some fundamental beliefs. It is easy for everyone to vilify those who are different from them in pronounced ways. Especially over the internet, where religious belief is one of the easiest things to convey. You'd be surprised at how many Christians tell me I'm going to hell, or that I am of the devil, or that I'm closed-minded in the most nasty ways.

2. The concept of politeness - if you think about it, politeness is a social construct. Those who are polite get more goods. Nobody is polite out of conviction, because it's irrational to be; it is rational everybody just said what they really think. Nastiness is also a social construct -- there is no reason to be nasty to someone for the sake of being nasty. The most materialist person would be polite as hell.

3. DDO is one of the best debating communities out there, and it should take conduct seriously anyway.
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YYW
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6/5/2014 8:55:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM, GOP wrote:
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.

They define a part of their identity against religion, which they hate -even though they'd never admit it. There is a level of resentment there that takes the form of rhetorical hostility in some cases, which I think is what you're experiencing.
GOP
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6/5/2014 9:20:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 8:53:33 PM, Bullish wrote:
I am an atheist. There are many reasons why atheists tend to be courteous on DDO and in other places. I'll list them.

1. You perception - You as a Christian differ from atheists in some fundamental beliefs. It is easy for everyone to vilify those who are different from them in pronounced ways. Especially over the internet, where religious belief is one of the easiest things to convey. You'd be surprised at how many Christians tell me I'm going to hell, or that I am of the devil, or that I'm closed-minded in the most nasty ways.

2. The concept of politeness - if you think about it, politeness is a social construct. Those who are polite get more goods. Nobody is polite out of conviction, because it's irrational to be; it is rational everybody just said what they really think. Nastiness is also a social construct -- there is no reason to be nasty to someone for the sake of being nasty. The most materialist person would be polite as hell.

3. DDO is one of the best debating communities out there, and it should take conduct seriously anyway.

1. It is easy for anyone to vilify those who are different, but you RARELY see that with Christians (by Christians, I don't mean Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.). Also, when a Christian tells you that you're going to hell, it's out of concern for your eternal destiny, not to display antipathy. When they say you're of the devil, they are referring to Bible verses that say that unbelievers are the children of Satan, as they are under his dominion and all (because he is not freed by Jesus). Closed-mindedness of unbelievers is also Biblical, as they purposely reject the truth of God's existence declared by His creation. The term "nasty ways" is pretty vague, too. When was the last time a Christian called you "atheistf*g"? I can refer to SEVERAL times I got called a Christf*g. The reasons why Christians tell you these things usually have to do with concern, not out of personal vendetta or hate.

2. Actually, born again Christians are polite out of conviction. They don't pursue materialism, but what is right. Again, you really have to examine the behavioral differences between a Christian and a non-Christian. Just because a Christian warns you of hellfire judgment doesn't mean that he is impolite.

3. I think conduct is taken seriously because atheists really want to win the debates and not face any loss of points just because they were mean.
GOP
Posts: 453
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6/5/2014 9:21:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 8:52:36 PM, HumbleThinker1 wrote:
At 6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM, GOP wrote:
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.

You could replace atheists with any group and on this website to real life and you'd be left with the same basic question: why do people behave politely?

No, not any group. I don't know about any born again Christians that engage in mean spirited discourses like atheists and others do.
GOP
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6/5/2014 9:23:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 8:53:33 PM, Bullish wrote:
I am an atheist. There are many reasons why atheists tend to be courteous on DDO and in other places. I'll list them.

1. You perception - You as a Christian differ from atheists in some fundamental beliefs. It is easy for everyone to vilify those who are different from them in pronounced ways. Especially over the internet, where religious belief is one of the easiest things to convey. You'd be surprised at how many Christians tell me I'm going to hell, or that I am of the devil, or that I'm closed-minded in the most nasty ways.

2. The concept of politeness - if you think about it, politeness is a social construct. Those who are polite get more goods. Nobody is polite out of conviction, because it's irrational to be; it is rational everybody just said what they really think. Nastiness is also a social construct -- there is no reason to be nasty to someone for the sake of being nasty. The most materialist person would be polite as hell.

3. DDO is one of the best debating communities out there, and it should take conduct seriously anyway.

Also, Bullish, I want to thank you for confirming the very gist of my topic. You contribute to how atheists really don't care about being nice out of conviction. The evidence is increasing.

I think things like this also prove the Bible true because it really distinguishes the difference between someone who is saved by God and the difference between someone who is not.
GOP
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6/5/2014 9:24:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
DISCLAIMER:

Once again, I have nothing against atheists or any other religious/irreligious groups. I just felt like making this topic because I thought this would really support what the Bible says.
Bullish
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6/5/2014 9:40:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 9:20:20 PM, GOP wrote:
At 6/5/2014 8:53:33 PM, Bullish wrote:
I am an atheist. There are many reasons why atheists tend to be courteous on DDO and in other places. I'll list them.

1. You perception - You as a Christian differ from atheists in some fundamental beliefs. It is easy for everyone to vilify those who are different from them in pronounced ways. Especially over the internet, where religious belief is one of the easiest things to convey. You'd be surprised at how many Christians tell me I'm going to hell, or that I am of the devil, or that I'm closed-minded in the most nasty ways.

2. The concept of politeness - if you think about it, politeness is a social construct. Those who are polite get more goods. Nobody is polite out of conviction, because it's irrational to be; it is rational everybody just said what they really think. Nastiness is also a social construct -- there is no reason to be nasty to someone for the sake of being nasty. The most materialist person would be polite as hell.

3. DDO is one of the best debating communities out there, and it should take conduct seriously anyway.

1. It is easy for anyone to vilify those who are different, but you RARELY see that with Christians (by Christians, I don't mean Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.). Also, when a Christian tells you that you're going to hell, it's out of concern for your eternal destiny, not to display antipathy. When they say you're of the devil, they are referring to Bible verses that say that unbelievers are the children of Satan, as they are under his dominion and all (because he is not freed by Jesus). Closed-mindedness of unbelievers is also Biblical, as they purposely reject the truth of God's existence declared by His creation. The term "nasty ways" is pretty vague, too. When was the last time a Christian called you "atheistf*g"? I can refer to SEVERAL times I got called a Christf*g. The reasons why Christians tell you these things usually have to do with concern, not out of personal vendetta or hate.

I think that's because you are a Christian and you don't have many arguments with Christians regarding whether god exists or not. Just because insults are sanctioned by the bible doesn't make them not mean-spirited. It's funny you should ask because I was called an "a-f*g" pretty recently on a site. I didn't even do anything - I had "atheist liberal" in my sig and some girl just said "blah blah ... a-f****t" after my post. Atheists are just as concerned about the hours some Christians waste praying at Church instead of generating helpful actions, and just as concerned with persons who they think are delusional and a danger to society.

2. Actually, born again Christians are polite out of conviction. They don't pursue materialism, but what is right. Again, you really have to examine the behavioral differences between a Christian and a non-Christian. Just because a Christian warns you of hellfire judgment doesn't mean that he is impolite.

What the Christian said was just a prelude to the way he said it. Polite out of conviction isn't a real thing because different cultures have different concepts of what is polite and what is not; besides, even if the Christians aren't doing it out of fear of their god, they're still doing it for what they think god wants. Also I personally don't believe in doing things out of conviction because it has no rational basis.

3. I think conduct is taken seriously because atheists really want to win the debates and not face any loss of points just because they were mean.

There is no point being mean in the first place, as I explained. Atheists are just too materialistically efficient to put something irrelevant to the debate every other sentence.
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Bullish
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6/5/2014 9:42:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 9:23:15 PM, GOP wrote:
Also, Bullish, I want to thank you for confirming the very gist of my topic. You contribute to how atheists really don't care about being nice out of conviction. The evidence is increasing.

No problem. If by "out of conviction" you mean out of dogma, then you would be correct. Atheists tend to be rationalist which means we don't believe in conviction.

I think things like this also prove the Bible true because it really distinguishes the difference between someone who is saved by God and the difference between someone who is not.

I think the main distinction is still whether the persons says he's Christian or not. It is much easier to just ask someone than to painstakingly observe their behavioral patterns after all.
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GOP
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6/5/2014 9:57:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think that's because you are a Christian and you don't have many arguments with Christians regarding whether god exists or not. Just because insults are sanctioned by the bible doesn't make them not mean-spirited. It's funny you should ask because I was called an "a-f*g" pretty recently on a site. I didn't even do anything - I had "atheist liberal" in my sig and some girl just said "blah blah ... a-f****t" after my post. Atheists are just as concerned about the hours some Christians waste praying at Church instead of generating helpful actions, and just as concerned with persons who they think are delusional and a danger to society.

Just because insults are sanctioned by the bible doesn't make them not mean-spirited."
This is just plain contradictory. As per the dictionary, the word "insult" means, "a disrespectful or scornfully abusive remark or action." That's mean spirited stuff right there.
Again, where you called those mean things by a born again Christian? All you said was that a girl called you. That girl could be a pagan for all we know.

" Atheists are just as concerned about the hours some Christians waste praying at Church instead of generating helpful actions, and just as concerned with persons who they think are delusional and a danger to society. "
You can say that they are just as concerned as much as you want, but their concern is not reflected by their behaviors. If you think they're so concerned, wouldn't you think that they would have some regard for politeness? What you're saying is really contradictory.

What the Christian said was just a prelude to the way he said it. Polite out of conviction isn't a real thing because different cultures have different concepts of what is polite and what is not; besides, even if the Christians aren't doing it out of fear of their god, they're still doing it for what they think god wants. Also I personally don't believe in doing things out of conviction because it has no rational basis.

So, what was the way he said it? You see, one can react violently towards even the most benign manner of getting told something. Your interpretation of the way he said it may very well be subjective.

So, you don't believe in doing things out of conviction. So, if you see someone suffering from a heart attack, are you not going to call the ambulance out of conviction since that's not "rational"?

There is no point being mean in the first place, as I explained. Atheists are just too materialistically efficient to put something irrelevant to the debate every other sentence.

There is no point being mean, yet so many atheists act that way. So, they do something that's pointless. So, the thing is that they do things out of conviction, but a mean-spirited one. Not a nice type of conviction.
GOP
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6/5/2014 10:04:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
No problem. If by "out of conviction" you mean out of dogma, then you would be correct. Atheists tend to be rationalist which means we don't believe in conviction.

If all you care about is rationalism, then that may not leave room for compassion. In a purely rationalistic viewpoint, you are not going to help the diabetic man go to the ambulance because you disregard conviction. However, you can be in the same position of the diabetic man, and some other person (who does things out of conviction) may help you. If this happens, then you just become a hypocrite.

I think the main distinction is still whether the persons says he's Christian or not. It is much easier to just ask someone than to painstakingly observe their behavioral patterns after all.

No, anyone can say that he/she is a Christian. There are many fakes who say they're Christian, but they display the marks of unbelief.

The thing is that you have to ask them if they believe in essential Christian doctrines for salvation (for example, ask them if they believe the deity of Christ, the Gospel, monotheism, etc.). True, that's easier, but it's also practical to make careful observations of the person's behavior (but not in a painstaking manner).
Bullish
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6/5/2014 10:08:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 10:04:01 PM, GOP wrote:
No problem. If by "out of conviction" you mean out of dogma, then you would be correct. Atheists tend to be rationalist which means we don't believe in conviction.

If all you care about is rationalism, then that may not leave room for compassion. In a purely rationalistic viewpoint, you are not going to help the diabetic man go to the ambulance because you disregard conviction. However, you can be in the same position of the diabetic man, and some other person (who does things out of conviction) may help you. If this happens, then you just become a hypocrite.

Game theory.

I think the main distinction is still whether the persons says he's Christian or not. It is much easier to just ask someone than to painstakingly observe their behavioral patterns after all.

No, anyone can say that he/she is a Christian. There are many fakes who say they're Christian, but they display the marks of unbelief.

The thing is that you have to ask them if they believe in essential Christian doctrines for salvation (for example, ask them if they believe the deity of Christ, the Gospel, monotheism, etc.). True, that's easier, but it's also practical to make careful observations of the person's behavior (but not in a painstaking manner).
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XLAV
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6/5/2014 10:23:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM, GOP wrote:
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.
Christians can be mean-spirited too.

In every social and religious groups, there is always someone who isn't polite. There are mean athesits, mean Christians, mean gays, mean muslims, mean buddhists, etc. It doesn't matter what group you are a part of. Being mean-spirited is a personality thing and it shouldn't be a stereotype for any groups.

It is incredibly bias to say atheists are always mean-spirited when discussing religion, when some Christians are also mean to atheists.
GOP
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6/5/2014 10:29:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Christians can be mean-spirited too.

In every social and religious groups, there is always someone who isn't polite. There are mean athesits, mean Christians, mean gays, mean muslims, mean buddhists, etc. It doesn't matter what group you are a part of. Being mean-spirited is a personality thing and it shouldn't be a stereotype for any groups.

It is incredibly bias to say atheists are always mean-spirited when discussing religion, when some Christians are also mean to atheists.

If by Christians you mean Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and all the other false groups claiming to be Christian, then you would be correct about them being mean spirited. If you're talking about born again Christians, then that's extremely rare.

But the amount of impolite people in other religious groups is exceedingly high. Being mean spirited is a personality thing that comes due to the inherent nature of mankind's sinfulness. Also, there is a difference between a stereotype that's based on some arbitrary prejudicial view, and a stereotype that's corroborated by statistics.

I also admit that there may be some nice atheists, but several atheists tend to be mean when they are in an intellectual discourse about theology (especially Christian theology).

Also, I am not talking about atheists in a prejudicial perspective. I am saying all this from an objective view. Back when I was an unbeliever, even I saw several atheists (and other unbelievers) acting impolitely in un-moderated chat rooms. Just go to one of those places and you will understand where I am coming from.
TN05
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6/5/2014 10:34:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM, GOP wrote:
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.

Every atheist I've met in person has been nice and respectful... You don't have to hate religious people to be an atheist. Sure there are atheist jerks but there are theist jerks as well.
Geogeer
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6/5/2014 11:33:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 9:20:20 PM, GOP wrote:

1. It is easy for anyone to vilify those who are different, but you RARELY see that with Christians (by Christians, I don't mean Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.).

Hey we Catholics are the nicest bunch of people...

Now you take that [censored] comment back before we inquisition your [censored] to the [censored] an [censored] [censored] you with a [censored][censored][censored][censored] in the [censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored]. Got it? Good.
GOP
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6/5/2014 11:37:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 11:33:44 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/5/2014 9:20:20 PM, GOP wrote:

1. It is easy for anyone to vilify those who are different, but you RARELY see that with Christians (by Christians, I don't mean Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.).

Hey we Catholics are the nicest bunch of people...

Now you take that [censored] comment back before we inquisition your [censored] to the [censored] an [censored] [censored] you with a [censored][censored][censored][censored] in the [censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored]. Got it? Good.

Hahaha.
HumbleThinker1
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6/6/2014 6:12:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 9:21:18 PM, GOP wrote:

No, not any group. I don't know about any born again Christians that engage in mean :spirited discourses like atheists and others do.

WEll I do. In fact I know more Christians that do than atheists. This is why basing generalizations solely on personal experience leads to inconsistent results: low sample size.
MysticEgg
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6/6/2014 10:48:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM, GOP wrote:
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.

You've literally just hit the nail on the head. Of course, I prefer to hit people (being an atheist) on the head with a metal chair... ;D
GOP
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6/6/2014 1:32:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 6:12:41 AM, HumbleThinker1 wrote:
At 6/5/2014 9:21:18 PM, GOP wrote:

No, not any group. I don't know about any born again Christians that engage in mean :spirited discourses like atheists and others do.

WEll I do. In fact I know more Christians that do than atheists. This is why basing generalizations solely on personal experience leads to inconsistent results: low sample size.

Well, you can't just say someone is Christian just because one claims to be one. Anyone can do that.
numberwang
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6/6/2014 1:59:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 10:29:50 PM, GOP wrote:
Christians can be mean-spirited too.

In every social and religious groups, there is always someone who isn't polite. There are mean athesits, mean Christians, mean gays, mean muslims, mean buddhists, etc. It doesn't matter what group you are a part of. Being mean-spirited is a personality thing and it shouldn't be a stereotype for any groups.

It is incredibly bias to say atheists are always mean-spirited when discussing religion, when some Christians are also mean to atheists.

If by Christians you mean Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and all the other false groups claiming to be Christian, then you would be correct about them being mean spirited. If you're talking about born again Christians, then that's extremely rare.


You can't cherry pick your true Christians and write off all of the denominations you don't like. Just because you may disagree over specific theological things or you disagree over practicing Christianity doesn't change the fact that Mormons or Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ therefore they are Christians, they can't be written off as "false groups". In your experience they don't count, but to the rest of the world they do, so if a catholic or a Mormon is mean to an atheist or nonbeliever, it isn't wrong to say that a Christian is being mean.

I really dislike when Christian denominations write each other off as false to try and justify their own positions, just because you're not them doesn't mean they aren't Christians.

But the amount of impolite people in other religious groups is exceedingly high. Being mean spirited is a personality thing that comes due to the inherent nature of mankind's sinfulness. Also, there is a difference between a stereotype that's based on some arbitrary prejudicial view, and a stereotype that's corroborated by statistics.

True but I don't see any stats here so it seems like we're all operating on arbitrary prejudices.

I also admit that there may be some nice atheists, but several atheists tend to be mean when they are in an intellectual discourse about theology (especially Christian theology).

Also, I am not talking about atheists in a prejudicial perspective. I am saying all this from an objective view. Back when I was an unbeliever, even I saw several atheists (and other unbelievers) acting impolitely in un-moderated chat rooms. Just go to one of those places and you will understand where I am coming from.

Everyone is terrible to everyone on the internet, I don't see this as being unique to atheists but the annoying atheists are annoying I agree.
GOP
Posts: 453
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6/6/2014 4:06:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You can't cherry pick your true Christians and write off all of the denominations you don't like. Just because you may disagree over specific theological things or you disagree over practicing Christianity doesn't change the fact that Mormons or Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ therefore they are Christians, they can't be written off as "false groups". In your experience they don't count, but to the rest of the world they do, so if a catholic or a Mormon is mean to an atheist or nonbeliever, it isn't wrong to say that a Christian is being mean.

I really dislike when Christian denominations write each other off as false to try and justify their own positions, just because you're not them doesn't mean they aren't Christians.

Yes, I can. Whether one is Christian or not is determined by the Holy Bible. The Bible contains the standards to evaluate whether one is a Christian or just a fake. Biblically speaking, a Christian is someone who is saved by Jesus. Conversely, someone who ISN'T saved by Jesus is NOT a Christian. The Bible says that one is only saved by faith, and Catholics believe in faith and works for salvation. So, those who fail to meet the Biblical tests of essential doctrines (like the Resurrection of Christ, His deity, salvation by faith, monotheism, etc.) are not Christian. These fake groups don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible, but a false, distorted representation of Him. Hence, I say that it is indeed wrong to say that a Christian is being mean when people of those groups (believing in a false representation of Christ) are mean. I mean, it's not me. It's the Bible. To the rest of the world, they do count, but not to the Bible. The world's perspective and the Bible's viewpoint are entirely different. Also, when you say they count to the rest of the world, you are making an appeal to popularity. That's a logical fallacy.

True but I don't see any stats here so it seems like we're all operating on arbitrary prejudices.

If you take the time to go to an un-moderated chatroom (with lots of atheists), you will see many of them come up with negative replies.

Everyone is terrible to everyone on the internet, I don't see this as being unique to atheists but the annoying atheists are annoying I agree.

No, not everyone. Those who are saved by Jesus are rarely terrible to anyone. This is unique to atheists, and other religious/irreligious groups. When was the last time you saw a born again Christian act impolitely to you?
numberwang
Posts: 1,917
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6/6/2014 4:55:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 4:06:08 PM, GOP wrote:
You can't cherry pick your true Christians and write off all of the denominations you don't like. Just because you may disagree over specific theological things or you disagree over practicing Christianity doesn't change the fact that Mormons or Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ therefore they are Christians, they can't be written off as "false groups". In your experience they don't count, but to the rest of the world they do, so if a catholic or a Mormon is mean to an atheist or nonbeliever, it isn't wrong to say that a Christian is being mean.

I really dislike when Christian denominations write each other off as false to try and justify their own positions, just because you're not them doesn't mean they aren't Christians.

Yes, I can. Whether one is Christian or not is determined by the Holy Bible. The Bible contains the standards to evaluate whether one is a Christian or just a fake. Biblically speaking, a Christian is someone who is saved by Jesus. Conversely, someone who ISN'T saved by Jesus is NOT a Christian. The Bible says that one is only saved by faith, and Catholics believe in faith and works for salvation. So, those who fail to meet the Biblical tests of essential doctrines (like the Resurrection of Christ, His deity, salvation by faith, monotheism, etc.) are not Christian. These fake groups don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible, but a false, distorted representation of Him. Hence, I say that it is indeed wrong to say that a Christian is being mean when people of those groups (believing in a false representation of Christ) are mean. I mean, it's not me. It's the Bible. To the rest of the world, they do count, but not to the Bible. The world's perspective and the Bible's viewpoint are entirely different.

Well the definition I'm using and the one you're using are different. You say they have to be saved, whatever that means to you, whereas I am just saying they have to believe in Jesus. They (non born again Christians) can believe in Jesus and not be saved by your standards therefore they can be Christians, right?

Also, when you say they count to the rest of the world, you are making an appeal to popularity. That's a logical fallacy.

No, I'm just using a different definition, that most people do use. You seem to be moving goalposts for Christianity to separate yourself from those who have basically the same beliefs and aren't nice to atheists. I understand that you don't necessarily think Catholics are real Christians, but they actually are Christians because they follow Jesus's teachings and are baptized to be saved. Just because they aren't necessarily true Christians in term sof your religious beliefs doesn't mean they aren't Christians, because they are. There's really no point in talking about it, they're Christians, that's just how it is.

True but I don't see any stats here so it seems like we're all operating on arbitrary prejudices.

If you take the time to go to an un-moderated chatroom (with lots of atheists), you will see many of them come up with negative replies.

I'm agreeing that it's probably true, I'm just saying that it isn't the only reason people are mean on the internet. Just because you saw mean atheists doesn't mean atheists are the only mean people on the internet.

Everyone is terrible to everyone on the internet, I don't see this as being unique to atheists but the annoying atheists are annoying I agree.

No, not everyone. Those who are saved by Jesus are rarely terrible to anyone. This is unique to atheists, and other religious/irreligious groups. When was the last time you saw a born again Christian act impolitely to you?

I've seen it lots and lots of times actually. Born-agains are as rude as anyone else, obviously not to you because you're one of them but they aren't any better than the rest of us.
Fanath
Posts: 830
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6/6/2014 5:06:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
religion, which they hate -even though they'd never admit it.

You're mixing up anti-theists with atheists here. The Oxford English Dictionary defines antitheist as "One opposed to belief in the existence of a god", while atheism is simply the rejection of theistic claims. If someone hates religion they're an anti-theist, not an atheist. So of course they wouldn't admit to something that wasn't true.
Dude... Stop...
HumbleThinker1
Posts: 144
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6/6/2014 5:17:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 1:32:57 PM, GOP wrote:
At 6/6/2014 6:12:41 AM, HumbleThinker1 wrote:
At 6/5/2014 9:21:18 PM, GOP wrote:

No, not any group. I don't know about any born again Christians that engage in mean :spirited discourses like atheists and others do.

WEll I do. In fact I know more Christians that do than atheists. This is why basing generalizations solely on personal experience leads to inconsistent results: low sample size.

Well, you can't just say someone is Christian just because one claims to be one. Anyone can do that.

And you can't commit the No True Scotsman fallacy. If you are simply going to redefine Christians to be those who meet your particular behavioral standards, then your implicit claim that Christians do not "engage in mean :spirited discourses like atheists and others do" is devoid of meaning because it is tautologous: "Christians, those who do not engage in mean :spirited discourses like atheists and others do, do not engage in mean :spirited discourses like atheists and others do."

Additionally, if all you are going to rely on is your own limited experience to make a generalization, it is dishonest to dismiss another's limited experience just because it runs contrary to your point.
GOP
Posts: 453
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6/6/2014 7:47:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well the definition I'm using and the one you're using are different. You say they have to be saved, whatever that means to you, whereas I am just saying they have to believe in Jesus. They (non born again Christians) can believe in Jesus and not be saved by your standards therefore they can be Christians, right?

Well, your definition is wrong because it's contrary to the Bible. The Bible (the book that all born again Christians believe and fakes "believe") is the standard for these things. Your standards come from somewhere else. Your standards are not authoritative, simply because it's not Scripture. The thing is that the very book (the Bible) that Mormons and Catholics "believe" happen to contradict their doctrines taught by their traditions and such.

No, I'm just using a different definition, that most people do use. You seem to be moving goalposts for Christianity to separate yourself from those who have basically the same beliefs and aren't nice to atheists. I understand that you don't necessarily think Catholics are real Christians, but they actually are Christians because they follow Jesus's teachings and are baptized to be saved. Just because they aren't necessarily true Christians in term sof your religious beliefs doesn't mean they aren't Christians, because they are. There's really no point in talking about it, they're Christians, that's just how it is.

Well, there is only one valid definition. That's the definition provided by the Bible, as it is the authoritative book for the Christian faith. I am not moving any goalposts here, because I have been adhering to this viewpoint the whole time. They don't have the same beliefs. Catholics believe in faith and works for salvation, the immaculate conception, baptismal regeneration, rosaries, prayers to saints, etc. Mormons believe in three gods, believe that Jesus is Satan's brother, and that God was a man, etc. Those are not "basically the same beliefs".

Also, they claim to follow Jesus' teachings, which say that one can be saved by ONLY FAITH. The unsaved people (as per the Bible) are unbelievers (Bible says those who believe are saved, those who don't are unsaved). So, by these Biblical standards, they are not Christian.

I'm agreeing that it's probably true, I'm just saying that it isn't the only reason people are mean on the internet. Just because you saw mean atheists doesn't mean atheists are the only mean people on the internet.

I agree. Mean atheists aren't the only mean people on the internet. I am sure that I implied that other unbelievers (like Mormons, agnostics, etc.) can be mean. (However, I have seen more meanness among atheists than those groups, to be honest.)


I've seen it lots and lots of times actually. Born-agains are as rude as anyone else, obviously not to you because you're one of them but they aren't any better than the rest of us.

First of all, I highly doubt that you know the definition of a born again Christian. What do you think it means?
Conservative101
Posts: 191
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6/6/2014 7:50:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:11:31 PM, GOP wrote:
Are they polite out of conviction, or out of necessity? Do they behave politely just so that they won't lose conduct points on debates and avoid getting reported? If there were no rules on this website, would they show their true colors?

If I go on a random, un-moderated chatroom, then I would get a lot of negative responses for them if I tried to talk to them about Christ. Even if I talk about some other controversy, they are still likely to engage in mean-spirited discourses.

Note: I am not saying that every atheist is like that. I am saying that a great majority of them act negatively from my experience. I am saying this from an objective view. I have nothing against atheists at all.

I am also expecting several atheists to come here and be like, "Oh no, we are acting nicely out of conviction" just to conceal their true characteristics and not look like a bunch of materialistic people who solely care about earning points on debates.

Some aren't. I've seen some rather rude atheists. But that doesn't mean there aren't rude Christians or religious people at all either. There's both in both; overall religious or non-religious beliefs don't have a huge impact on something like politeness.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism