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Female Managers

Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/11/2014 11:11:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I asked this question to someone hoping to get a response, so I'll ask everyone here:

Objectively speaking, is being a female manager harder than being a manager?

I am not referring to pay, or getting the promotion, or being promoted after that.
I am asking if you believe a manager's duty is more difficult for the sole reason the manager is a woman. I am referring solely to job performance, and nothing else.

I am not sure if it is.
The only reason I could think of is misogynistic male underlings, but doesn't that cut both ways? Aren't some women assuming their male manager is misogynistic, thus they strive to undermine him?

Thoughts?
My work here is, finally, done.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/12/2014 4:15:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lol. It sounds like you're in the middle of a domestic drama. But the question is impossible to definitely answer. "Harder" in relation to the experience of managing is a subjective concept. But you're asking us to assess it objectively...
Khaos_Mage
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6/12/2014 7:49:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 4:15:03 AM, rross wrote:
Lol. It sounds like you're in the middle of a domestic drama. But the question is impossible to definitely answer. "Harder" in relation to the experience of managing is a subjective concept. But you're asking us to assess it objectively...

No, as I said, this was actually a question posited to another DDOer. You could find the thread if you looked.

I asked because one member said that female managers blame their shortcomings on being female (e.g missing goal targets or deadlines), and another said it that was a sexist attitude.
I am wondering if being female has any unique complications relating to job performance.
I don't think so.

My question is: all things being equal except sex of manager, is there any reason one manager has a harder time than the other?
If not, then a female manager is just making excuses when she says "it's because I'm a female I didn't do X".
If so, is this not a valid reason to second guess giving women leadership roles?
My work here is, finally, done.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/12/2014 8:04:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 7:49:48 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

My question is: all things being equal except sex of manager, is there any reason one manager has a harder time than the other?
If not, then a female manager is just making excuses when she says "it's because I'm a female I didn't do X".
If so, is this not a valid reason to second guess giving women leadership roles?

If managers do blame their shortcomings on being female. I've never come across that in my experience. I accept that there may exist women managers who do do that, but is it reasonable to allow them to speak for all women? I don't think so.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/12/2014 8:10:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:04:20 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/12/2014 7:49:48 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

My question is: all things being equal except sex of manager, is there any reason one manager has a harder time than the other?
If not, then a female manager is just making excuses when she says "it's because I'm a female I didn't do X".
If so, is this not a valid reason to second guess giving women leadership roles?

If managers do blame their shortcomings on being female. I've never come across that in my experience. I accept that there may exist women managers who do do that, but is it reasonable to allow them to speak for all women? I don't think so.

I'm not asking them to speak for all women.
I am asking about the validity of the claim.

Do you, as a woman, believe that it is harder to be a supervisor or manager if you are a woman?

I don't think so. I think any woman who does is most likely an idiot manager who is finding excuses, just like most male managers do.
My work here is, finally, done.
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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6/24/2014 10:36:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:10:47 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:04:20 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/12/2014 7:49:48 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

My question is: all things being equal except sex of manager, is there any reason one manager has a harder time than the other?
If not, then a female manager is just making excuses when she says "it's because I'm a female I didn't do X".
If so, is this not a valid reason to second guess giving women leadership roles?

If managers do blame their shortcomings on being female. I've never come across that in my experience. I accept that there may exist women managers who do do that, but is it reasonable to allow them to speak for all women? I don't think so.

I'm not asking them to speak for all women.
I am asking about the validity of the claim.

Do you, as a woman, believe that it is harder to be a supervisor or manager if you are a woman?

I don't think so. I think any woman who does is most likely an idiot manager who is finding excuses, just like most male managers do.

Or they are a hardcore feminist.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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6/24/2014 12:21:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/11/2014 11:11:55 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I asked this question to someone hoping to get a response, so I'll ask everyone here:

Objectively speaking, is being a female manager harder than being a manager?

I am not referring to pay, or getting the promotion, or being promoted after that.
I am asking if you believe a manager's duty is more difficult for the sole reason the manager is a woman. I am referring solely to job performance, and nothing else.

I am not sure if it is.
The only reason I could think of is misogynistic male underlings, but doesn't that cut both ways? Aren't some women assuming their male manager is misogynistic, thus they strive to undermine him?

Thoughts?

Nothing inherent no.
Nolite Timere
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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6/24/2014 6:42:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/11/2014 11:11:55 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I asked this question to someone hoping to get a response, so I'll ask everyone here:

Objectively speaking, is being a female manager harder than being a manager?

I am not referring to pay, or getting the promotion, or being promoted after that.
I am asking if you believe a manager's duty is more difficult for the sole reason the manager is a woman. I am referring solely to job performance, and nothing else.

I am not sure if it is.
The only reason I could think of is misogynistic male underlings, but doesn't that cut both ways? Aren't some women assuming their male manager is misogynistic, thus they strive to undermine him?

Thoughts?

Nope. It is not an harder.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/25/2014 7:26:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As a female and someone who has been a supervisor at three or four different jobs now and as someone who knows females who were or are in positions of authority, I can tell you some anecdotes but I don't know what the fact of the matter is on the whole. These are just personal experiences.

When I am in a position of authority in a place where most of my underlings are male and almost all of them have less education than me, they call me a "bitch" and a "dyke" regularly if I do the job like all the male supervisors. If I dress how I normally do, I get hit on and sexually harassed relentlessly and if I dress in more baggy clothing with less make-up in order to mitigate that, I get called a "man" and am constantly asked about whether I'm a lesbian (for inquiring minds, I'm not). When I say "constantly"- I mean this is an every day occurrence. It is almost always lower-class white males who treat me in this way whereas they automatically respected white males who were made supervisors. I had almost no problems with the white-male college students.

When I am supervising immigrants from Mexico or El Salvador, I have no problems with them whatsoever. One day of seeing me work and finding out that I know some Spanish and they are right there with me- there is mutual respect. I'm guessing this is for a couple reasons- 1. I speak some spanish and so I give them instructions in spanish and they appreciate that and 2. I actually do work- I don't just give out duties to people and stand around like some supervisors might. If I'm not doing anything, I will do work right alongside them all and banter. And they respect that. My female-ness does not affect whether they respect me. Only my supervisor-ness and my work ethic does.

So basically, I think it is an issue of education and self-entitlement more than anything. Stupid self-entitled people have stupid ideas about women in positions of power and boy does it show. White males may have it in their head that THEY ought to be in charge and feel it is a personal slight against them that a woman got the job and not them. They feel threatened by me.

I've been working at a university for a few years now and there are plenty of women in positions of authority all around me- including myself. From what I can tell, educated people do not express their prejudices in as blatant ways but there are other ways they show it- by interrupting women more often in meetings, by not listening when women speak in meetings, by dismissing the input of women without really considering it at all and without giving a valid reason for their dismissal. For instance, if I had a really, really good idea about marketing a certain thing in my department and I thought it was imperative, I'd probably tell a male in higher authority than me to present the idea in a meeting and then comment on it like everyone else does instead of presenting it myself. It would immediately be taken more seriously- without a doubt.

tl;dr harder yes, sometimes, because other people are stupid, self-entitled, and/or uneducated a$$holes who often refuse to check their prejudices, but no, not inherently harder just because I have ovaries.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/25/2014 7:35:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also, lol @ "Objectively speaking, is being a female manager harder than being a manager?"
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/25/2014 7:39:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:35:49 PM, Oryus wrote:
Also, lol @ "Objectively speaking, is being a female manager harder than being a manager?"

Yeah, I noticed that typo when this was bumped by someone recently :/

Thank you for your input.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/25/2014 7:42:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:39:50 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:35:49 PM, Oryus wrote:
Also, lol @ "Objectively speaking, is being a female manager harder than being a manager?"

Yeah, I noticed that typo when this was bumped by someone recently :/

Thank you for your input.

In case you didn't realize, it was supposed to be ...than a male manager.

And I'm thanking you for your other, much longer, post.
My work here is, finally, done.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/25/2014 7:43:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:42:36 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:39:50 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:35:49 PM, Oryus wrote:
Also, lol @ "Objectively speaking, is being a female manager harder than being a manager?"

Yeah, I noticed that typo when this was bumped by someone recently :/

Thank you for your input.

In case you didn't realize, it was supposed to be ...than a male manager.

And I'm thanking you for your other, much longer, post.

haha I know, I'm just teasing you. It was ironic in the context.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/25/2014 7:47:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:43:30 PM, Oryus wrote:

haha I know, I'm just teasing you. It was ironic in the context.

Very much so.
And after trying so hard to choose my words carefully, too LOL

Do you think men have an equally difficult time managing women, though?
Push too hard, because he's threatened by her or hates women.
Is to lax, because he's trying to sleep with her.
Woman not in the in-group because he's a man.

Ignorance cuts both, obviously, but do you think women have a rawer deal as supervisors of these entitled morons with inflated egos?
My work here is, finally, done.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/25/2014 8:05:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:47:50 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:43:30 PM, Oryus wrote:

haha I know, I'm just teasing you. It was ironic in the context.

Very much so.
And after trying so hard to choose my words carefully, too LOL

Do you think men have an equally difficult time managing women, though?
Push too hard, because he's threatened by her or hates women.
Is to lax, because he's trying to sleep with her.
Woman not in the in-group because he's a man.

Ignorance cuts both, obviously, but do you think women have a rawer deal as supervisors of these entitled morons with inflated egos?

lol

Yes, I absolutely think women get a rawer deal when dealing with people who have ignorant attitudes about women's place in society. On the flipside, men have an easier time managing those people. And everyone suffers for it because it allows incompetent managers to remain in their position for a lot longer than they deserve. There was actually a couple times where only a handful saw their incompetence and the female GM, of course, was seen as a "bitch" for getting rid of them. One of the managers actually died from drugs (which was a main contributor to his incompetence) while she was driving to our town to fire him for being a crappy manager. So really, she made the right call. But she was still a "bitch" to many- despite CLEAR evidence she was in the right.

Then with the more educated crowd, men and women are both judged more by their actual merits rather than by their sex first. So incompetent male managers would have a harder time in that domain- but rightfully so obviously, because they are legitimately incompetent.

As for male managers of mostly females- I don't have any personal experience in that domain because when I have worked in jobs which had mostly females, the managers were also female. But I do know that, statistically speaking, in female-dominated fields, men of equal qualifications are much more likely to get promoted much faster than females. So it is easier to become manager but I don't know how difficult it is to be one in that field. Hard to say.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/25/2014 8:23:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And this is kind of general stuff, but outside of managers and onto politicians- you need look no further than Hillary Clinton to get an idea of what things women have to deal with which men don't. Hillary Clinton is straight-faced and pensive looking- she's too mannish, she's a ball-breaker, she's a bitch. She cries once- she is too emotional and not fit for leadership. Men are straight-faced and pensive-looking- they are strong, stoic, thoughtful, deliberate, etc. They cry- they are brave, it's humanizing. Hillary Clinton's daughter is having a child- how will being a grandmother affect her ability to be a leader? Tons of other male politicians are grandfathers- no comment. And with these comments, I'm referring to the dominating narrative as it is outlined via the media.

Then there are these strange ideas about what women are supposed to wear to work- for instance, in the 80's it was often mandatory for women to wear heels and skirts. Now, people, perhaps unconsciously, show more respect toward women who wear pantsuits (sidenote: Hillary wears pantsuits and gets slammed for it constantly- doesn't matter what she does). The oft-used stereotype is that women who wear make-up are ditzy or materialistic or self-conscious, etc. but in studies, people find women who wear make-up more trust-worthy. So when I go to a job interview, or a meeting with a new person I'm trying to coordinate with, etc. I ALWAYS wear make-up.

I console myself with the fact that I will, hopefully, be a teacher one day and that is a role which women's abilities are not typically questioned- at least on the sole basis that they are a woman and/or do "womanly" things- like have children, grandchildren, wear skirts, heels, or make-up (or don't), or cry.

The whole thing reminds me of this xkcd comic. You could apply it to incompetence in leadership as well: http://xkcd.com...

I could go on but I'll just stop there. I'm talking your ear off now.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/25/2014 9:57:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:10:47 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:04:20 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/12/2014 7:49:48 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

My question is: all things being equal except sex of manager, is there any reason one manager has a harder time than the other?
If not, then a female manager is just making excuses when she says "it's because I'm a female I didn't do X".
If so, is this not a valid reason to second guess giving women leadership roles?

If managers do blame their shortcomings on being female. I've never come across that in my experience. I accept that there may exist women managers who do do that, but is it reasonable to allow them to speak for all women? I don't think so.

I'm not asking them to speak for all women.
I am asking about the validity of the claim.

It's the same thing. If a woman says that she didn't do X because she's a woman, then she's saying that there's something to do with being a woman, ie. something that all women share, that prevents us all from doing X. So she is speaking for all women. If indeed she says that, which as I said before, is not something I've ever heard.

But it could be that the comment was meant to be context specific, and that kind of got left out in the way the story was told. Maybe she meant she didn't do X because she's a woman, and women get treated like sh1t in this particular sexist organization, which makes it impossible for them to do their jobs properly. And yeah, I'd believe that there are organizations where it's MUCH harder to be a female manager than a male manager due to the sexism in the organizational culture. But that's the fault of the culture rather than being a woman per se.

Do you, as a woman, believe that it is harder to be a supervisor or manager if you are a woman?

No. Personally, the best supervisors I've had have all been women, so I think women can be awesome managers.

I don't think so. I think any woman who does is most likely an idiot manager who is finding excuses, just like most male managers do.

Could be. Depends.
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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6/25/2014 10:04:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:26:47 PM, Oryus wrote:
As a female and someone who has been a supervisor at three or four different jobs now and as someone who knows females who were or are in positions of authority, I can tell you some anecdotes but I don't know what the fact of the matter is on the whole. These are just personal experiences.

When I am in a position of authority in a place where most of my underlings are male and almost all of them have less education than me, they call me a "bitch" and a "dyke" regularly if I do the job like all the male supervisors. If I dress how I normally do, I get hit on and sexually harassed relentlessly and if I dress in more baggy clothing with less make-up in order to mitigate that, I get called a "man" and am constantly asked about whether I'm a lesbian (for inquiring minds, I'm not). When I say "constantly"- I mean this is an every day occurrence. It is almost always lower-class white males who treat me in this way whereas they automatically respected white males who were made supervisors. I had almost no problems with the white-male college students.

When I am supervising immigrants from Mexico or El Salvador, I have no problems with them whatsoever. One day of seeing me work and finding out that I know some Spanish and they are right there with me- there is mutual respect. I'm guessing this is for a couple reasons- 1. I speak some spanish and so I give them instructions in spanish and they appreciate that and 2. I actually do work- I don't just give out duties to people and stand around like some supervisors might. If I'm not doing anything, I will do work right alongside them all and banter. And they respect that. My female-ness does not affect whether they respect me. Only my supervisor-ness and my work ethic does.

So basically, I think it is an issue of education and self-entitlement more than anything. Stupid self-entitled people have stupid ideas about women in positions of power and boy does it show. White males may have it in their head that THEY ought to be in charge and feel it is a personal slight against them that a woman got the job and not them. They feel threatened by me.

I've been working at a university for a few years now and there are plenty of women in positions of authority all around me- including myself. From what I can tell, educated people do not express their prejudices in as blatant ways but there are other ways they show it- by interrupting women more often in meetings, by not listening when women speak in meetings, by dismissing the input of women without really considering it at all and without giving a valid reason for their dismissal. For instance, if I had a really, really good idea about marketing a certain thing in my department and I thought it was imperative, I'd probably tell a male in higher authority than me to present the idea in a meeting and then comment on it like everyone else does instead of presenting it myself. It would immediately be taken more seriously- without a doubt.

tl;dr harder yes, sometimes, because other people are stupid, self-entitled, and/or uneducated a$$holes who often refuse to check their prejudices, but no, not inherently harder just because I have ovaries.

Believe it or not, I just did a persuasive speech in communications 101 class. The ironic part is I did it on the topic of "Men's Education".

Now, taking into consideration there is only 2 men out of 14 students in my class, I thought this would be a good idea for a persuasive speech since we get extra points for emotive topics.

Of course, I am excited and I start looking up all kinds of information about gender ratios in college. I was ecstatic as I kept getting one hit after another of unique resources I could use to put in my Powerpoint. One particular part of my Powerpoint was titled "Quantity of Quality Men". In this particular slide, I had pictures of different men who came up under google search results for "Uneducated men". The reason I did this was to show my audience how the majority of men will end up if they don't get proper amount of education.

All together I had 5 pictures..

1.) This picture was the biggest on the top right hand corner, half way down, and
three quarters to the left. It was a picture of Islamist militants with guns,
standing over innocent civilians they just shot in cold blood.

2.) Next was a picture of three men, drinking beer, drunk at a bar
(in speedos), attempting to hit on a woman. Top left hand corner, 1/4 to the
right, and half way down.

3.) A prisoner wearing a "Du rag", white tank-top, (big and stocky) sitting down
in his jail cell reading a letter pissed off. This picture was on the left hand
corner, a little less than a 1/4 to the right and half way up.

4.) An UFC fighter who just won a match going in a "roid" rage. A little less than a
quarter to the right, a third to the right, and half way up.

5.) Finally, the last one on the bottom right hand corner. The rapper Paul Wall
with his left arm around some groupie of his.
( The key part in this picture was the expensive chain he wore and his diamond
fronts on his teeth.)

Now, you would have thought the women in my class would have understood this.
Apparently they didn't. I say this because as soon as my title slide came up "Men's
Education" they looked at me like I was stupid. In my head, I was thinking,"What is wrong with these people?". So, I didn't pay any mind and just continued.

As I was going through the slides, I was showing them different graphs that supported
my thesis. Then, I got to the slide "Quantity of Quality Men".

Well, I mean to tell you, you would have thought these people had never seen stuff like
this before. They all were like 0.0

I was thinking to myself,"Really?". So, I went ahead and explained to them why I showed these pictures to them and it seemed like I had a bunch of daggers flying at me as if I was hated like Julius Caesar.

Especially, when I explained why I used a picture of Paul Wall the rapper. They couldn't
comprehend my reasoning as to why I did, even though I thoroughly explained how he
was all about that diamond chain around his neck, the diamond fronts on his teeth, and
the money he makes.

Keep in mind, as I was giving my speech I was being interrupted. Therefore, by the time I got to my last slide, I was irritated, annoyed, and baffled by the women in my class.

Finally, on my last slide, I had a background picture of Albert Einstein with his quote,"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."

Quickly my thoughts came to my head and the thoughts came out of my mouth,"
Even if my speech didn't go well, (Then all of a sudden I raised my voice from a
scale from one to ten at nine.) I at least want you to get this out of my presentation!
(The last slide showed) and I read it aloud at the same tone of voice.

They all were shocked, looking like a deer in headlights. Then the sense
of accomplishment I was setting out to accomplish was complete. At least it felt that way for the few minutes I was standing there as they clapped. Though of course,
I was more so embarrassed than anything afterwards because of the way the
audience made me feel.

Soon after I was called a sexist and mumbled about as I sat down. All I could think about was, "When is class going to end?!?".

Once class was over, I left with a frown on my face, and my head down.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/26/2014 8:35:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 10:04:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:26:47 PM, Oryus wrote:
As a female and someone who has been a supervisor at three or four different jobs now and as someone who knows females who were or are in positions of authority, I can tell you some anecdotes but I don't know what the fact of the matter is on the whole. These are just personal experiences.

When I am in a position of authority in a place where most of my underlings are male and almost all of them have less education than me, they call me a "bitch" and a "dyke" regularly if I do the job like all the male supervisors. If I dress how I normally do, I get hit on and sexually harassed relentlessly and if I dress in more baggy clothing with less make-up in order to mitigate that, I get called a "man" and am constantly asked about whether I'm a lesbian (for inquiring minds, I'm not). When I say "constantly"- I mean this is an every day occurrence. It is almost always lower-class white males who treat me in this way whereas they automatically respected white males who were made supervisors. I had almost no problems with the white-male college students.

When I am supervising immigrants from Mexico or El Salvador, I have no problems with them whatsoever. One day of seeing me work and finding out that I know some Spanish and they are right there with me- there is mutual respect. I'm guessing this is for a couple reasons- 1. I speak some spanish and so I give them instructions in spanish and they appreciate that and 2. I actually do work- I don't just give out duties to people and stand around like some supervisors might. If I'm not doing anything, I will do work right alongside them all and banter. And they respect that. My female-ness does not affect whether they respect me. Only my supervisor-ness and my work ethic does.

So basically, I think it is an issue of education and self-entitlement more than anything. Stupid self-entitled people have stupid ideas about women in positions of power and boy does it show. White males may have it in their head that THEY ought to be in charge and feel it is a personal slight against them that a woman got the job and not them. They feel threatened by me.

I've been working at a university for a few years now and there are plenty of women in positions of authority all around me- including myself. From what I can tell, educated people do not express their prejudices in as blatant ways but there are other ways they show it- by interrupting women more often in meetings, by not listening when women speak in meetings, by dismissing the input of women without really considering it at all and without giving a valid reason for their dismissal. For instance, if I had a really, really good idea about marketing a certain thing in my department and I thought it was imperative, I'd probably tell a male in higher authority than me to present the idea in a meeting and then comment on it like everyone else does instead of presenting it myself. It would immediately be taken more seriously- without a doubt.

tl;dr harder yes, sometimes, because other people are stupid, self-entitled, and/or uneducated a$$holes who often refuse to check their prejudices, but no, not inherently harder just because I have ovaries.

Believe it or not, I just did a persuasive speech in communications 101 class. The ironic part is I did it on the topic of "Men's Education".

Now, taking into consideration there is only 2 men out of 14 students in my class, I thought this would be a good idea for a persuasive speech since we get extra points for emotive topics.

Of course, I am excited and I start looking up all kinds of information about gender ratios in college. I was ecstatic as I kept getting one hit after another of unique resources I could use to put in my Powerpoint. One particular part of my Powerpoint was titled "Quantity of Quality Men". In this particular slide, I had pictures of different men who came up under google search results for "Uneducated men". The reason I did this was to show my audience how the majority of men will end up if they don't get proper amount of education.

All together I had 5 pictures..

1.) This picture was the biggest on the top right hand corner, half way down, and
three quarters to the left. It was a picture of Islamist militants with guns,
standing over innocent civilians they just shot in cold blood.

2.) Next was a picture of three men, drinking beer, drunk at a bar
(in speedos), attempting to hit on a woman. Top left hand corner, 1/4 to the
right, and half way down.

3.) A prisoner wearing a "Du rag", white tank-top, (big and stocky) sitting down
in his jail cell reading a letter pissed off. This picture was on the left hand
corner, a little less than a 1/4 to the right and half way up.

4.) An UFC fighter who just won a match going in a "roid" rage. A little less than a
quarter to the right, a third to the right, and half way up.

5.) Finally, the last one on the bottom right hand corner. The rapper Paul Wall
with his left arm around some groupie of his.
( The key part in this picture was the expensive chain he wore and his diamond
fronts on his teeth.)

Now, you would have thought the women in my class would have understood this.
Apparently they didn't. I say this because as soon as my title slide came up "Men's
Education" they looked at me like I was stupid. In my head, I was thinking,"What is wrong with these people?". So, I didn't pay any mind and just continued.

As I was going through the slides, I was showing them different graphs that supported
my thesis. Then, I got to the slide "Quantity of Quality Men".

Well, I mean to tell you, you would have thought these people had never seen stuff like
this before. They all were like 0.0

I was thinking to myself,"Really?". So, I went ahead and explained to them why I showed these pictures to them and it seemed like I had a bunch of daggers flying at me as if I was hated like Julius Caesar.

Especially, when I explained why I used a picture of Paul Wall the rapper. They couldn't
comprehend my reasoning as to why I did, even though I thoroughly explained how he
was all about that diamond chain around his neck, the diamond fronts on his teeth, and
the money he makes.

Keep in mind, as I was giving my speech I was being interrupted. Therefore, by the time I got to my last slide, I was irritated, annoyed, and baffled by the women in my class.

Finally, on my last slide, I had a background picture of Albert Einstein with his quote,"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."

Quickly my thoughts came to my head and the thoughts came out of my mouth,"
Even if my speech didn't go well, (Then all of a sudden I raised my voice from a
scale from one to ten at nine.) I at least want you to get this out of my presentation!
(The last slide showed) and I read it aloud at the same tone of voice.

They all were shocked, looking like a deer in headlights. Then the sense
of accomplishment I was setting out to accomplish was complete. At least it felt that way for the few minutes I was standing there as they clapped. Though of course,
I was more so embarrassed than anything afterwards because of the way the
audience made me feel.

Soon after I was called a sexist and mumbled about as I sat down. All I could think about was, "When is class going to end?!?".

Once class was over, I left with a frown on my face, and my head down.

What is this? I don't even...

This is totally off-topic now but morbid curiosity is getting the better of me now...
What was your speech about, exactly?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
SweetTea
Posts: 22
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6/27/2014 6:02:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Management is a position that requires thinking & planning as well as leadership ability. Gender doesn't make it easier, or more difficult. My personal observation is that women, who are in management, are either very good or horrible. I've never found one who is in the middle, or average. I will also add that the ONLY time I endured workplace harassment, I had a female boss. And she was the one who was harassing the employees! That woman chased me down a hall ... shoved me twice against the walls ... berated me & everyone else. A man, today, couldn't get away with that! The company was aware of how she conducted herself, but seemed uncertain of how to handle her. Who knows? She probably threatened them! Need I add, employees left on a routine basis. Nobody stayed more than a year. It just wasn't worth the stress & abuse. Finally, an employee filed a lawsuit. That, I'm told, got her job. It was long over-due!
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/27/2014 9:34:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/26/2014 8:39:31 AM, Haroush wrote:
I wouldn't say it's totally off-topic , but it was about the Importance of Men's Education.

Was a bit off-topic for the OP is all I mean. No worries though. Regardless, I'm still curious what you could have said to offend or shock so many. Do you have any interest in being a little more specific or are you kinda done with it now that it's over?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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6/28/2014 7:14:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 9:34:17 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 6/26/2014 8:39:31 AM, Haroush wrote:
I wouldn't say it's totally off-topic , but it was about the Importance of Men's Education.

Was a bit off-topic for the OP is all I mean. No worries though. Regardless, I'm still curious what you could have said to offend or shock so many. Do you have any interest in being a little more specific or are you kinda done with it now that it's over?

I'm kinda done with it now that its over. Though I will say this, I started the presentation by saying,"By a show of hands, who in here can tell me how many registered students are in this class? (They gave me the answer of 14.) Now, by a show of hands, who can tell me how many males are in this class? Finally, by a show of hands, can someone tell me the percentage of males to the total number of students? The answer was 14%. I ended up having to tell the class because they kept saying around 70% which they were wrong.

I then went on to say,"This information has lead me to do research and do a speech today on the Importance of men's education."

I would tell you specifically everything else I said, but put it this way...

The only time I said something that might be seen as somewhat offensive was
when I was giving an explanation about my slide "Quantity of quality men".
This event unfolded as I became frustrated about the lack of respect I was experiencing and all of sudden I said," And these people here are being stupid!" I was referring to the guys in a bar ( in speedos attempting to hit on a woman.). That's the only time I said something that was the least bit offensive.

I am not like one of those men you described in your post. I am more so one of those empathetic individuals who get taking advantage of from time to time.