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Does the PTSD of abortion, called PASS, exist

Jikpamu
Posts: 226
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6/13/2014 1:56:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Post Abortion Stress Syndrome (PASS)

http://www.psychologytoday.com...

The PTSD of abortion is called PASS. Does It Exist?

No matter your philosophical, religious, or political views on abortion, the fact of the matter is, the actual experience can affect women not only on a personal level but can potentially have psychological repercussions.

It is important to note that this is not a term that has been accepted by the American Psychiatric Association or the American Psychological Association. In fact, pro-choice advocates accuse their counterparts of making up PASS.

Symptoms of PASS may include any of the following:

1) Guilt

2) Anxiety

3) Numbness, Depression

4) Flashbacks

5) Suicidal thoughts
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
HumbleThinker1
Posts: 144
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6/14/2014 6:18:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/13/2014 1:56:29 PM, Jikpamu wrote:
Post Abortion Stress Syndrome (PASS)

http://www.psychologytoday.com...

The PTSD of abortion is called PASS. Does It Exist?

No matter your philosophical, religious, or political views on abortion, the fact of the matter is, the actual experience can affect women not only on a personal level but can potentially have psychological repercussions.

It is important to note that this is not a term that has been accepted by the American Psychiatric Association or the American Psychological Association. In fact, pro-choice advocates accuse their counterparts of making up PASS.

Symptoms of PASS may include any of the following:

1) Guilt

2) Anxiety

3) Numbness, Depression

4) Flashbacks

5) Suicidal thoughts

The author's only sources were a magazine article giving the dissenting opinion and a site called afterabortion.com, which clearly has a bias in favor of the issue. The scientific community debunked the supposed psychological effects of abortion back in the 80s when Reagan wanted his administration to find a such effects. To the best of my knowledge, the scientific community has not changed its stance on this, but like everything else these days, you can find a few fringe scientists to support any idea.
Jikpamu
Posts: 226
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6/14/2014 8:28:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yet I know of at least one person who is suffering from PASS who had an abortion and feels terribly guilty about it.

It would be expected that anyone with a conscience who had an abortion would feel guilty about it.

Don't disparage the 55 Million babies who have been killed in this country since 1973.
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/14/2014 10:10:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/13/2014 1:56:29 PM, Jikpamu wrote:

Symptoms of PASS may include any of the following:

1) Guilt

2) Anxiety

3) Numbness, Depression

4) Flashbacks

5) Suicidal thoughts

Why are any of these a "syndrome" or create a medical condition? Are we that pathetic?

It's plain and simple regret, and not being able to reconcile it.
My work here is, finally, done.
Jikpamu
Posts: 226
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6/14/2014 11:07:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 10:10:18 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/13/2014 1:56:29 PM, Jikpamu wrote:

Symptoms of PASS may include any of the following:

1) Guilt

2) Anxiety

3) Numbness, Depression

4) Flashbacks

5) Suicidal thoughts

Why are any of these a "syndrome" or create a medical condition? Are we that pathetic?

It's plain and simple regret, and not being able to reconcile it.

Anxiety is treated by Buspirone
Depression is treated by drugs like Paroxetine, Prozac, and Wellbutrin among others.
Suicidal thoughts are treated by Psychotropic Medications

What you call "regret" is affecting 1 out of every 5 Americans for which 1 out of every 12 is on an Antidepressant.

All these drugs do is sustain. Jesus however if you live in obedience to Him, cures.

However I suppose you will even dispute that...
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/14/2014 11:24:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 11:07:36 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
At 6/14/2014 10:10:18 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/13/2014 1:56:29 PM, Jikpamu wrote:

Symptoms of PASS may include any of the following:

1) Guilt

2) Anxiety

3) Numbness, Depression

4) Flashbacks

5) Suicidal thoughts

Why are any of these a "syndrome" or create a medical condition? Are we that pathetic?

It's plain and simple regret, and not being able to reconcile it.

Anxiety is treated by Buspirone
Depression is treated by drugs like Paroxetine, Prozac, and Wellbutrin among others.
Suicidal thoughts are treated by Psychotropic Medications

Your point?
Let me tell you a story about a friend of mine who was prescribed anti-depressant for his diagnosis of "situational depression". In other words, some times, there will be a trigger that will cause his depression.
Those triggers are: loss of dog at age of 19, and girlfriend not only broke up with him, but cheated on him.

Yes, I call BS on that diagnosis.

What you call "regret" is affecting 1 out of every 5 Americans for which 1 out of every 12 is on an Antidepressant.
Hmmm...
I am surprised that 16% of women have had abortions.
Of course, I do not equate all depression with regret of abortion. Don't put words in my mouth.

All these drugs do is sustain. Jesus however if you live in obedience to Him, cures.
Then, you should be in agreement with me, but, for some reason, you are not.

However I suppose you will even dispute that...
Wow.
Do you even know me?
That was uncalled for, rude, and, mostly, irrelevant.

Even if I do disagree with your "Jesus cures", I agree that this diagnosis is BS and can be "cured". You call it Jesus, I call it making peace.

You, sir, are contradicting yourself.
Either you agree the diagnosis is true, in which case, Jesus doesn't cure all.
Or, you agree with me, that the diagnosis is BS, and is treatable because it is natural.
My work here is, finally, done.
Jikpamu
Posts: 226
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6/14/2014 11:55:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Have a nice day, sir... : )
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
debatability
Posts: 1,160
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6/14/2014 12:05:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/13/2014 1:56:29 PM, Jikpamu wrote:
Post Abortion Stress Syndrome (PASS)

http://www.psychologytoday.com...

The PTSD of abortion is called PASS. Does It Exist?

No matter your philosophical, religious, or political views on abortion, the fact of the matter is, the actual experience can affect women not only on a personal level but can potentially have psychological repercussions.

It is important to note that this is not a term that has been accepted by the American Psychiatric Association or the American Psychological Association. In fact, pro-choice advocates accuse their counterparts of making up PASS.

Symptoms of PASS may include any of the following:

1) Guilt

2) Anxiety

3) Numbness, Depression

4) Flashbacks

5) Suicidal thoughts
I think that it exists, but women who give birth have similar problems such as post partum depression which can sometimes result in suicide. Regardless of what a women decides to do with her child, there will always be possible psycological issues.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/14/2014 1:00:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 11:55:22 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Have a nice day, sir... : )

Wow....
You come to a debate site and excuse yourself from a contrary position, while creating ad hom, straw man, and not understanding the argument made.

Not to sound rude, but why are you here, if you don't want to discuss?
My work here is, finally, done.
Jikpamu
Posts: 226
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6/14/2014 1:26:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 1:00:45 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/14/2014 11:55:22 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Have a nice day, sir... : )

Wow....
You come to a debate site and excuse yourself from a contrary position, while creating ad hom, straw man, and not understanding the argument made.

Not to sound rude, but why are you here, if you don't want to discuss?

In all fairness you are confusing the issue...You basically said depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts are not a medical condition. Then I showed you how they are treated with medication even naming specific drugs. Then you went off on some tangent confusing the issuing so that I could not follow you or your logic...

So there is really nothing to discuss with you....
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/14/2014 3:14:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 1:26:02 PM, Jikpamu wrote:
At 6/14/2014 1:00:45 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/14/2014 11:55:22 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Have a nice day, sir... : )

Wow....
You come to a debate site and excuse yourself from a contrary position, while creating ad hom, straw man, and not understanding the argument made.

Not to sound rude, but why are you here, if you don't want to discuss?

In all fairness you are confusing the issue...You basically said depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts are not a medical condition. Then I showed you how they are treated with medication even naming specific drugs. Then you went off on some tangent confusing the issuing so that I could not follow you or your logic...

So there is really nothing to discuss with you....

No, I said that those symptoms are natural feelings from regret.
I did not say depression was not a medical condition.

Show me where I said otherwise.

You responded by generalizing my comment to create a straw man.
My work here is, finally, done.
Jikpamu
Posts: 226
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6/14/2014 3:41:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 3:14:18 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/14/2014 1:26:02 PM, Jikpamu wrote:
At 6/14/2014 1:00:45 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/14/2014 11:55:22 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Have a nice day, sir... : )

Wow....
You come to a debate site and excuse yourself from a contrary position, while creating ad hom, straw man, and not understanding the argument made.

Not to sound rude, but why are you here, if you don't want to discuss?

In all fairness you are confusing the issue...You basically said depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts are not a medical condition. Then I showed you how they are treated with medication even naming specific drugs. Then you went off on some tangent confusing the issuing so that I could not follow you or your logic...

So there is really nothing to discuss with you....

No, I said that those symptoms are natural feelings from regret.
I did not say depression was not a medical condition.

Show me where I said otherwise.

You responded by generalizing my comment to create a straw man.

I know you did not say depression was a medical condition. That was part of my point because in fact it is a medical condition or they wouldn't have developed drugs like Prozac and Paroxetine to combat it.
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
Oromagi
Posts: 857
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6/14/2014 4:27:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/13/2014 1:56:29 PM, Jikpamu wrote:

The PTSD of abortion is called PASS. Does It Exist?

I've only known a few women who I both know to have had an abortion and was close enough to them to gauge how they handled the event. One was very deeply affected by the event. She was newly married and they both very much looked forward to having children. But she had also just started as a professor at Univ. of Maryland and she was advised under no uncertain terms that any maternity leave in the final weeks of term would be cause for dismissal and derail her career.

She finished the term but was so depressed by its end that she left U of M anyway and sank into a bad cycle of depression exacerbated by prozac and lithium (this was the early days of Prozac and docs were generally prescribing 10 times the dose that would be used today).

She did get better, however, with regular treatment and is tenured at Rutgers today.

I think she and almost every other woman I know would argue that this is one of the many reasons that abortion needs to be an inexpensive medical procedure available at most medical facilities and covered by insurance like any outpatient procedure.

Also and obviously, women need the freedom to get pregnant at any stage of life or career without loss of those opportunities. Having and raising the next generation is one of society's most basic functions. Improving the Dow Jones Index is not. I'll never understand why the religious right in America does not apply any pressure to their Wall Street partners in politics to resolve the single most significant factor contributing to abortion rates.

If abortion were illegal, we know from our history and the observation of other nations that abortions would continue at an only slightly reduced rate without proper medical facilities, without an opportunity for a psychiatric check-up, without support from family counselors, etc. So the choice is not whether or not women should have abortions, that is not and has never been an option in those societies where women are not made slaves. The choice is whether some segment of women traumatized by the event shall be ignored or taken care of by society.

If abortion were cheap and readily available, women would be more likely to abort sooner. This is an important advantage since these aftereffects become increasingly likely as the pregnancy proceeds. Insurance companies to do much to improve treatment of affected women by insisting on a health checkup four to six weeks after the abortion.

If abortion were illegal, how much less likely would women be to seek treatment for health problem that they could not explain without fear of legal repercussions?

I do think PASS is a real thing, just as postpartum depression is a real thing for women who give birth. Like many health problems early diagnosis and treatment are the most effective countermeasures.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/14/2014 6:27:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 3:41:46 PM, Jikpamu wrote:
At 6/14/2014 3:14:18 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/14/2014 1:26:02 PM, Jikpamu wrote:
At 6/14/2014 1:00:45 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/14/2014 11:55:22 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Have a nice day, sir... : )

Wow....
You come to a debate site and excuse yourself from a contrary position, while creating ad hom, straw man, and not understanding the argument made.

Not to sound rude, but why are you here, if you don't want to discuss?

In all fairness you are confusing the issue...You basically said depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts are not a medical condition. Then I showed you how they are treated with medication even naming specific drugs. Then you went off on some tangent confusing the issuing so that I could not follow you or your logic...

So there is really nothing to discuss with you....

No, I said that those symptoms are natural feelings from regret.
I did not say depression was not a medical condition.

Show me where I said otherwise.

You responded by generalizing my comment to create a straw man.

I know you did not say depression was a medical condition. That was part of my point because in fact it is a medical condition or they wouldn't have developed drugs like Prozac and Paroxetine to combat it.

But, you see, it is you who are confusing the issue.
People who have made serious, life changing choices regretting them =/= all people with depression. Me stating that depression being a symptom of a "disorder" does not mean no one is ever legitimately depressed.
I take issue with a natural consequence (depression) as being a symptom of a cause for a disorder.
It would be like me saying I have a disorder because I am depressed because my wife died and I could have saved her, had I been home.

Regardless of my view of depression, it is you who bastardized my point: generalizing it only to dismiss it.
My work here is, finally, done.
Jikpamu
Posts: 226
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6/14/2014 8:53:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You do not have control over someone else's cancer, but you do over whether you get an abortion or suggest your spouse to get an abortion.

Cause and effect is very real...there is often a cause or source of the depression.

But this post is about PASS (Post Abortion "Stress" Syndrome)...

The assumption is the act of having an abortion caused the stress or guilt...
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
HumbleThinker1
Posts: 144
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6/16/2014 8:28:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 8:28:12 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Yet I know of at least one person who is suffering from PASS who had an abortion and feels terribly guilty about it.

It would be expected that anyone with a conscience who had an abortion would feel guilty about it.

Don't disparage the 55 Million babies who have been killed in this country since 1973.

Someone feeling or thinking they feel a certain way as a result of an action does not demonstrate the existence of a condition. Science has demonstrated this over and over again.

And none disparaged anyone, so your last comment is simply pointless and distracting from the actual discussion.
HumbleThinker1
Posts: 144
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6/16/2014 8:37:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 12:05:12 PM, debatability wrote:

I think that it exists, but women who give birth have similar problems such as post partum depression which can sometimes result in suicide. Regardless of what a women decides to do with her child, there will always be possible psycological issues.

Just like how simple regret or any other range of emotions is not by itself clinical depression, they aren't post partum depression or "PASS." These conditions are chemical in nature that cause someone to not be able to cope with, easily recover from, or not in some meaningful way influence the arising and ceasing of these emotions. There can also generally be a problem of scale, such as losing a dollar having the same effect as the loss of a loved one. Despite many studies, science has not as far as I know, found any psychological effects from abortion that qualify as a condition in the same way that post pardum depression or PTSD do. The guy that invented this concept in the 80s has long been discredited.