Total Posts:42|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The definitive case against feminism

Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 1:41:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
kfc
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 1:44:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Fool: Really I thought it was this was..

It was a men's rights group meeting but Feminist showed up to protest against it. They weren't invited.

Against The Ideologist

This is what feminism looks like at Canadian Universities.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 1:51:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 1:41:07 AM, Oryus wrote:

The Fool: Summarized. And shortened.

Against The Ideologist

Only for you..
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 1:57:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 5:21:45 AM, Zarroette wrote:
The definitive case for feminism:

The Fool: Lets Dance!!

Against the Ideologist

<(8D)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 2:51:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 2:32:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:41:07 AM, Oryus wrote:
kfc

The Fool: What are "you" going to do?
<(86)

Against the Ideologist

When instant karma's get you.
<(89)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 6:02:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 5:21:45 AM, Zarroette wrote:
The definitive case for feminism:

http://logicd.tumblr.com...

Women are most affected by global warming. Double the hot flashes....
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
tulle
Posts: 4,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 8:50:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 1:44:58 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

This is what feminism looks like at Canadian Universities.

Sure because U of T = all of Canada.
yang.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 9:12:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 8:50:35 PM, tulle wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:44:58 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

This is what feminism looks like at Canadian Universities.

Sure because U of T = all of Canada.

The Fool: Obviously I am generalizing, top down. The controversy is at U of O, as well. It increased dramatically after the declaration of "rape culture".

My general argument, is that there is an extreme hostility, and hate to the possibility of having an independent voice for men's rights. Not that I like that idea of either, but rather, if there is feminism, it's not only fair, but necessary, that there is also a representation for men from their point of view as well.

The very fact, that it has to come down to that, sucks for everyone. Perhaps in the future, they can unite, but it's necessary for now, to shed the bias and distrust, which has been brought about by feminism.

Against The Ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 9:18:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Canadian ------>Universities.<-------

The Fool: You misrepresent my claim.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
tulle
Posts: 4,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 10:35:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Feminism in Canadian universities is also Slutwalk so some crazy rally at U of T and the sh!tstorms at U of O are hardly all there is to it.
yang.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2014 11:19:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 10:35:18 PM, tulle wrote:
Feminism in Canadian universities is also Slutwalk so some crazy rally at U of T and the sh!t storms at U of O are hardly all there is to it.

The Fool: Now, I hate to have to refute you, I really do. Because it simply tends to create more unwarranted hostility. Please make be sure to read more carefully, to be sure that you are refuting what I'm claiming properly.

I made it explicit, on the second last post, that I was obviously overgeneralizing.

"This is what feminism looks like at Canadian Universities."

Secondly, I didn't say, all Canadian universities.
Thirdly, where does it say this is the "only" way feminists look, At Canadian University.

Lastly, that's not the only rally at U of T, there's been many. Check the other forum?
If you want to see even more I can send it.

Can you please tell me, what you're trying to accomplish, so I may better understand what you mean?

Against The Ideologist

And who doesn't know about the slut walks.. Come on!
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
tulle
Posts: 4,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/28/2014 12:47:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I just want to be clear that what feminism may look like at one Canadian university (and possibly 2) is nowhere near "what feminism looks like in Canadian universities".

No hostility here :)
yang.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/28/2014 8:04:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Fool and The tulle
Preface

Tulle: I just want to be clear that what feminism may look like at one Canadian university (and possibly 2) is nowhere near "what feminism looks like in Canadian universities".

No hostility here :)

The Fool: Well I must say, it still seems quite foggy. Is this really your final answer?

(Hint: Read carefully, compare what I have said, what you have said previously, and what you are saying now. Look at manner of the OP, and the style of the thread posts. Make sure they match up, and that the inference is valid.)

Against The Ideologist

Call it a "head" start.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/29/2014 1:33:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 4:30:22 AM, rross wrote:
At 7/27/2014 5:21:45 AM, Zarroette wrote:
The definitive case for feminism:

http://logicd.tumblr.com...

http://cmsdata.iucn.org...

"In some cases, gender differences also increase men"s mortality in disaster situations. Many men are exposed to risky situations and even die because they believe that by being the "stronger sex" they need not take precautions and because society expects them to take heroic rescue action."

The Fool: Lol. Fake..

Against The Ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
rross
Posts: 2,772
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/30/2014 2:08:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 1:33:31 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 7/29/2014 4:30:22 AM, rross wrote:
At 7/27/2014 5:21:45 AM, Zarroette wrote:
The definitive case for feminism:

http://logicd.tumblr.com...

http://cmsdata.iucn.org...

"In some cases, gender differences also increase men"s mortality in disaster situations. Many men are exposed to risky situations and even die because they believe that by being the "stronger sex" they need not take precautions and because society expects them to take heroic rescue action."

The Fool: Lol. Fake..

Against The Ideologist

You've never taken heroic rescue action?
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/31/2014 11:30:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 1:51:28 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:41:07 AM, Oryus wrote:

The Fool: Summarized. And shortened.

Against The Ideologist

Only for you..



lol So what??? You've made more dirty, personal attacks at me than possibly anyone on this site- does that discredit everything you've said against feminism? No, actually, that doesn't at all.

That chicks hair and outfit are fierce by the way...
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/2/2014 5:21:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's not hate, it just looks that way...

Intro
Oryus: lol So what??? You've made more dirty, personal attacks at me than possibly anyone on this site- does that discredit everything you've said against feminism? No, actually,"that"doesn't at all.

The Fool: Why are your arguments, always "loaded", so that one has to pick the poison out of them before responding?

Oryus: That chicks hair and outfit are fierce by the way

The Fool: I get the impression that you are a fiery one yourself. However, when that fire is for the sake, of what is good and just, it is heaven, but when it is for the bad and the unjust. It is hell.

The Representative
"Oryus: lol So what???"

The Fool: It was meant to be funny. And ironically so. Because it is really sad, and self-refuting to it feminism, and against human dignity, rights and/or free speech.
<(86)

Not all women want to be represented by that.

Dirty Deeds
Oryus: You've made more (dirty), personal attacks at me than (possibly) anyone on this site-

The Fool: Dirty? At? Possibly?

You are pretty much the queen of DDO when it comes to unnecessary, sarcastic and beside the point insults. So my attacks towards you are for the most part counterattacks, and/or part of rational arguments derived from something you have claimed.

For even when I'm hardly serious, being playful, or just plain silly, you try and use your (dirty), feminism tactics on me; via some sort of self-declarative claim of online oppression, rational harassment and/or rhetorical bullying..

You take full advantage of the fact that, as a female, your hostilities won't be held as accountable, As it would a male was hostile toward you. In other words, It's done dirt cheap.
<(8D)

Overworked Analogy
" Oryus: does that discredit everything you've said against feminism? No, actually,"that"doesn't at all."

The Fool: The analogy doesn't work, and this is why:

1. I don't just preach ideologically , or just "say" things religiously..
2. Nor did I imply that it discredits everything.

When someone says, " I don't hate you," with hateful tones, emotions, body language, in a degrading way, they ought be discredited. And in so far as many educated feminist are willing to get behind such a person, it's evidence of an attitude shared throughout a large part of feminism.
<(89)

The feminist message is clear. Either you're with us or against us. If you don't accept our ideology, then you're a sexist rape apologizing patriarchic chauvinist Pig.
<(8O)

Against The Ideologists

But we don't hate you. We just act like way..
<(8D)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/2/2014 6:01:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 1:33:31 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 7/29/2014 4:30:22 AM, rross wrote:
At 7/27/2014 5:21:45 AM, Zarroette wrote:
The definitive case for feminism:

http://logicd.tumblr.com...

http://cmsdata.iucn.org...

"In some cases, gender differences also increase men"s mortality in disaster situations. Many men are exposed to risky situations and even die because they believe that by being the "stronger sex" they need not take precautions and because society expects them to take heroic rescue action."

The Fool: Lol. Fake..

Against The Ideologist

why is that fake?
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/2/2014 11:00:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/2/2014 6:01:31 PM, Cermank wrote:

Feminist research, versus the gender research.
Most gender research, is done by feminist researchers, But feminist, are not neutral researchers.The feminist ideology is heavily loaded with nonfactual, unfalsifiable and biased presumptions.

The Evil Patriarchy
One key assumption is that we live in a patriarchal society, and patriarchal societies are those where women are oppressed, and men are the oppressors. So by accepting this premise, one also accepts that men are generally the victimizers, and women are the victims. And therefore by corollary men are generally evil in nature, and women are for the most part are good and or neutral.

Feminist Poisoning
You might've heard the phrase, "that feminism poisons everything." that's because feminist researchers bias in favor of research, issues and facts, that support their belief, while avoiding others. This also biases feminist interpretation of information they do have, to keep it consistent with the ideology.

False Fact
The list given facts, Are paraphrases, or numbers taken out of studies, that support the ideology. As opposed to direct quotes. There is probably some truth to each claim, but the information is selected to exaggerate, the truth. Most of the facts on that list, don't give a rate which compares the genders, but assumes that you will make a generalization, from the few that actually do. Some don't even have references at all.

The Giveaway
"In some cases, gender differences also increase men"s mortality in disaster situations. Many men are exposed to risky situations and even die because they believe that by being the "stronger sex" they need not take precautions and because society expects them to take heroic rescue action."

There are three separate statements claims, which are unnaturally squished together in one sentence.(That's a hint)

1. Many Men are more exposed to risky situations.
2. Many even die because they believe that being the stronger sex to need not take precautions. (Really, is it really based off that belief)
3. Many even die because society expects then to take a heroic action.

"Many Men are more exposed to risky situations"
The Fool: Nothing critical besides the fact that it's not consistent with the other claims. And that no ratio is given.

"Many men even die because they believe that being the stronger sex to need not take precautions."

The Fool: Ratio??? More or less than?

Where do they get, that the reason men died in this disaster is because men had the belief that they were the stronger sex. Did they run a survey?

The Dead Man: Because I am part of the stronger sex, I figured, I must not take precautions.

The Fool: It's meant to bypass the fact that men may have been self-sacrificial. So instead of making them look heroic, there adding this non-fact to make them look stupid. Otherwise it would go against, the evil patriarchy theory.

"Many even die because society expects then to take a heroic action.'

The Fool: Ratio??? e.g. Without a ratio, it's pretty much unfalsifiable. This is not a fact based on the example below, but at claim given to deny men of any credit in regards to being altruistic.

The feminist: It's not because they may have been good men, but because the patriarchy forces them to do so. Bad society. Shame"

The Fool: Practically all Males, in the mammalian family, (male mammals) are all generally more risk taking, than females. But why is that part of the explanation, omitted while ideological explanations are given?

"For example, there were more immediate deaths among men when hurricane Mitch struck Central America, not only because they were engaged in open-air activities, but because they took fewer precautions
when facing risks (Bradshaw, 2004). "

The Fool: Their example, doesn't indicate anything about beliefs or that the cause is heroic social expectations. And this is evidence of feminist poisoning.

Against The Ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/4/2014 1:29:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/2/2014 5:21:48 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
It's not hate, it just looks that way...

Intro
Oryus: lol So what??? You've made more dirty, personal attacks at me than possibly anyone on this site- does that discredit everything you've said against feminism? No, actually,"that"doesn't at all.

The Fool: Why are your arguments, always "loaded", so that one has to pick the poison out of them before responding?

Ironic.
Oryus: That chicks hair and outfit are fierce by the way

The Fool: I get the impression that you are a fiery one yourself. However, when that fire is for the sake, of what is good and just, it is heaven, but when it is for the bad and the unjust. It is hell.

The Representative
"Oryus: lol So what???"

The Fool: It was meant to be funny. And ironically so. Because it is really sad, and self-refuting to it feminism, and against human dignity, rights and/or free speech.
<(86)

Not all women want to be represented by that.

You know a lot of people don't think people should cheat on their spouses but still agree with Bill Clinton on a great deal of political issues. If you have integrity, you will judge beliefs by, well, the beliefs- and not by the person saying them.
Dirty Deeds
Oryus: You've made more (dirty), personal attacks at me than (possibly) anyone on this site-

The Fool: Dirty? At? Possibly?

You are pretty much the queen of DDO when it comes to unnecessary, sarcastic and beside the point insults.

Unnecessary? Oh, I beg to differ. I get a lot of amusement out of it. Beside the point? Hardly.
So my attacks towards you are for the most part counterattacks, and/or part of rational arguments derived from something you have claimed.

ha- right
For even when I'm hardly serious, being playful, or just plain silly, you try and use your (dirty), feminism tactics on me; via some sort of self-declarative claim of online oppression, rational harassment and/or rhetorical bullying..

Damn! I guess I shouldn't have consulted my Dirty Feminist Tactics guide when talking to you! Or maybe there is a simpler explanation- when I'm aware that any kind of reasoning and conversation is going to be entirely fruitless, for some reason (maybe the person is hell-bent on trying to be right instead of actually engaging in mutually worthwhile discussion or maybe they are so far gone that any amount of effort I put into it will be a waste of time), then I will amuse myself with sarcasm instead.

lol @ "online oppression"- it was really more like, "this guy often acts like an obtuse troll who is known for harassing people and is doing it right now."

You take full advantage of the fact that, as a female, your hostilities won't be held as accountable, As it would a male was hostile toward you. In other words, It's done dirt cheap.
<(8D)

Your hypocrisy is also amusing. Yeah, you're dirty. I've never commented on how you look, whether you're hygienic, whether women would find you attractive. I'm sarcastic to a choice few and I really don't feel bad about it. My sarcastic comments are always relevant to what the person said. Can you remember a time that I made a negative comment about your body, sex, gender, sexuality, relationships, sex life, etc? That is what I would call "dirty" and "beside the point" and it's a line I don't cross. It's a line I've seen you cross many times- not just with me.
Overworked Analogy
" Oryus: does that discredit everything you've said against feminism? No, actually,"that"doesn't at all."

The Fool: The analogy doesn't work, and this is why:

1. I don't just preach ideologically , or just "say" things religiously..
2. Nor did I imply that it discredits everything.

Well, that's good. But it doesn't discredit any thing either. You're not going to discredit much with a sample size of one. Perhaps I'll just throw up a video of Bill O'Reilly every time I want to show that conservatives are truly hateful individuals, eh? "See! Look at how he interrupts his opponent so angrily and yells and talks over him! This is the state of the conservative ideologists in NYC.. sometimes... some places.... well... whenever Bill O'Reilly is around and being filmed for his t.v. show....."
You're a strange one. You keep using this word "ideology." 16k has "gay marriage", izbo had "f*cktard," Zarro has "hypergamy" and you have "ideology." I've made it pretty clear what my beliefs are and why I choose to use the feminist label for it. I didn't suddenly say, "I'm an atheist" one day and then stop believing in god afterward. It was the other way around. I took the title because my beliefs, or lack thereof, can be described by it. And if I stopped calling myself a feminist or an atheist, it wouldn't change my beliefs. You put far too much weight, connotation, and assumptions in the word. I see it with every comment you make. You don't listen and you certainly don't exercise the principle of charity. This is why I'm sarcastic with you. It's amusing in light of the fact that fruitful conversation won't ever happen because your prejudices prohibit you from looking past a title which is, as we have all established many times, rife with negative connotation, rhetorical force, whose exact meaning is debatable, fluid, changing over time, etc.

So if "feminism" means nothing, and so many things, why don't you just ignore the label and listen to what people have to say instead?

If "feminism" means nothing, and so many things, how is it such the powerful and brain-washing monolithic ideology you make it out to be?

If "feminism" means nothing, and so many conflicting, debatable things, how are you so capable of knowing what a person who calls themselves a "feminist" believes?

You are the one who is obsessed with the label and treat it as some monolithic thing to give so much attention to. Not me. Truly, you have more respect for the power of the word than I do.

When someone says, " I don't hate you," with hateful tones, emotions, body language, in a degrading way, they ought be discredited. And in so far as many educated feminist are willing to get behind such a person, it's evidence of an attitude shared throughout a large part of feminism.
<(89)

The feminist message is clear. Either you're with us or against us. If you don't accept our ideology, then you're a sexist rape apologizing patriarchic chauvinist Pig.
<(8O)

The feminist message is unclear, it's clear. It means this, it means nothing at all. It contains opposing ideas, it is a monolithic ideology. Feminists can't agree on anything, I know what all feminists think and why they are how they are.

Which is it?

The fact that you know that "feminism" is fluid, changing, debatable- it shows that you know feminists do not, in fact, bow to some monolithic ideology but actually think about their beliefs personally and work out what "feminism" means to them. So please stop acting like it is such a monolith when it has been established many times that it is a label people choose for practicality's sake to denote in-groups and out-groups. It's no more significant than someone calling themselves a "geek" to signal to others that they are interested in one or more "geeky" things. Which things? How many? How much? For how long? Why? Do they just like Star Wars or do they play Magic every night of the week, make cosplay outfits, and save up to go to comic conventions every year? You won't know until you ask.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/5/2014 1:06:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's not hate, it just looks that way"
Part 2

Intro
Oryus: lol So what??? You've made more dirty, personal attacks at me than possibly anyone on this site- does that discredit everything you've said against feminism? No, actually,"that"doesn't at all.

The Fool: Why are your arguments, always "loaded", so that one has to pick the poison out of them before responding?

Oryus: Ironic.

The Fool: No, it's just an example. You should try using them, to support your claims as well.

1. The Representative
"Oryus: lol So what???"

"The Fool: It was meant to be funny. And ironically so. Because it is really sad, and self-refuting to it feminism, and against human dignity, rights and/or free speech.
<(86)
Not all women want to be represented by that

Oryus: You know a lot of people don't think people should cheat on their spouses but still agree with Bill Clinton on a great deal of political issues.

The Fool: Perhaps I only know a few people , who think many things, including that a blow job is a "non-sequitur "to political policies; in the very same sense as your argument, pertaining to women not wanting to be represented by a disregard for human dignity, rights and/or free speech. Keep up the good work.
<(89)

2. Oryus and Integrity
Oryus: If you have integrity, you will judge beliefs by, well, the beliefs- and not by the person saying them.

The Fool: That doesn't make any sense..
It's the actions people do(including what they say) based off beliefs which causes the injustice. Not the belief itself.
<(89)
That ones on "The hill", the next one will cost you.

The Fool: You are pretty much the queen of DDO when it comes to unnecessary, sarcastic and beside the point insults.

Oryus: Unnecessary? Oh, I beg to differ. I get a lot of amusement out of it. Beside the point? Hardly.

The Fool: I mean, unnecessary and beside the point in regards to the rational argument. But I am completely guilty...
<(86)

for I took it as a universal moral precept that the intentional harming of others for personal amusement is an hateful act, and necessarily evil.
And that insofar as we insult people we generally do it, trivially, unseriously/playfully/humor, or by accident, impulsively, or by choice between the lesser of two evils. Not as an end, for the self-amusement of it.. Now, this may explain "your" integrity issues, but I still hold that, good "Free Spirited" people don't want to be represented by that.

Conclusions
C1. Women generally don't want to be represented by a disregard for human dignity, rights and/or free speech.
C2. Oryus, has integrity/Moral issues and declares shamelessly that she insults people in discussion merely for the sake of self-amusement.

The Fool: If you feel this is a misrepresentation and you'd like to clarify your claims, or even take one back something that you perhaps said impulsively, just tell me with sincerity, and I will grant it with Principle of Charity. (The best case interpretation.)
Fair?

Against The Ideologist
That's the difference..

To be continued...(I will continue to respond to the rest over time)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/5/2014 1:41:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/5/2014 1:06:38 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: If you feel this is a misrepresentation and you'd like to clarify your claims, or even take one back something that you perhaps said impulsively, just tell me with sincerity, and I will grant it with Principle of Charity. (The best case interpretation.)
Fair?

If you were capable of doing so, it might be fair. I don't know if you enjoy being purposely obtuse or if your ESL status causes that much trouble for you but it's honestly just annoying to talk to you. I'm glad for you that you're trying to improve and really- I do see great improvements in your English. But it's not good enough, apparently, because I don't really know who or what you're responding to- but it's rarely me or what I said.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in recent weeks by responding to you but I think I'll take wrich's approach and just allow your soliloquies to remain soliloquies.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/7/2014 1:09:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/5/2014 1:06:38 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Its not hate, it just looks that way.
Part 3

Conclusions from Part 2
C1. Women generally don't want to be represented by a disregard for human dignity, rights and/or free speech.
C2. Oryus, has integrity/Moral issues and declares shamelessly that she insults people in discussion merely for the sake of self-amusement.
http://www.debate.org...

The Fool: If you feel this is a misrepresentation and you'd like to clarify your claims, or even take one back something that you perhaps said impulsively, just tell me with sincerity, and I will grant it with Principle of Charity. (The best case interpretation.)
Fair?

Oryus: If you were capable of doing so, it might be fair.

The Fool: I quote every sentence, so it"s pretty much impossible not to. But if you ever come across a counterexample, feel free to support your claims. If not, well then..
NEVERMIND
<(89)

Intro
Oryus: I don't know if you enjoy being purposely obtuse or if your ESL status causes that much trouble for you"

The Fool: If I have learned anything from you, it"s that knowledge is not for everybody. And I"m grateful for that. Although, you might not understand what this means, I will say it anyways. Thank you.
It"s not the words but the "meaning" that counts.
<(8D)

The Big Red Meany
Oryus: it's honestly just annoying to talk to you."

The Fool: Wow"!
<(8O)
I"m glad you got that out of the way. In fact, I found it kind of strange, since well, you can talk to people on Facebook, or Instant Messenger. I"m actually here to debate things, but you seemed so very "challenged", in many ways.

Happiness At Last?
Oryus: I'm glad for you that you're trying to improve and really-

The Fool: Well, you know.. patience is a virtue.

Oryus: I do see great improvements in your English

The Fool: Really! Examples would make me happy.

Oryus: But it's not good enough, apparently,"

The Fool: Awww"

Oryus: because I don't really know who or what you're responding to-

The Fool: A good method is to compare quotes and names. I hope that helps.

Oryus: but it's rarely me or what I said.

The Fool: It"s hard for any of us to tell who is actually on the other side. I mostly respond to the posts, and just assume it"s the same person. Have you considered another account?

The Benefactor
Oryus: I gave you the benefit of the doubt in recent weeks by responding to you .

The Fool: A benefit in what regard?

Oryus: but I think I'll take wrich's approach and just allow your soliloquies to remain sol-iloquies.
The Fool: I don"t mean to challenge your logic anymore than you or your statement does, but in English I believe these are called dia-logues..
<(89)
For, one must not follow others blindly, like some sort of ideology.

Against The Ideologist
I hope someday, you can get over your challenges.

To be continued".
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2014 1:14:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It"s not hate it just looks that way
Part 4

Its Not You Its Me!
Oryus: You've made more (dirty), personal attacks at me than (possibly) anyone on this site-

The Fool: Dirty? At? Possibly?
You are pretty much the queen of DDO when it comes to unnecessary, sarcastic and beside the point insults.

Oryus: Unnecessary? Oh, I beg to differ. I get a lot of amusement out of it. Beside the point? Hardly.

The Fool: My attacks towards you are for the most part counterattacks, and/or part of rational arguments derived from something you have claimed.

Oryus:: ha- right

The Fool: Do you need the demonstration in formal notation?

P1. I showed a video consisting of verbal abuse, of Men's Right Activist by a leading feminist(and her goons) at the University of Toronto(the largest city in Canada), who is supported by the feminist academics there, and many feminists around the world..
http://www.debate.org...

P2. You responded with a blunt ad-hominem, a strawman, and a irrelevancy. (Followed by many, many more)

"Oryus: lol So what??? You've made more dirty, personal attacks at me than possibly anyone on this site- does that discredit everything you've said against feminism? No, actually, that doesn't at all."
http://www.debate.org...

C1. Therefore I am counter-attacking your claims.

Against The Ideologist

It"s not complicated, and its not my English, it's "YOU"!
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2014 3:21:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 1:14:45 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
It"s not hate it just looks that way
Part 4

Its Not You Its Me!
Oryus: You've made more (dirty), personal attacks at me than (possibly) anyone on this site-

The Fool: Dirty? At? Possibly?
You are pretty much the queen of DDO when it comes to unnecessary, sarcastic and beside the point insults.

Oryus: Unnecessary? Oh, I beg to differ. I get a lot of amusement out of it. Beside the point? Hardly.

The Fool: My attacks towards you are for the most part counterattacks, and/or part of rational arguments derived from something you have claimed.

Oryus:: ha- right

The Fool: Do you need the demonstration in formal notation?

P1. I showed a video consisting of verbal abuse, of Men's Right Activist by a leading feminist(and her goons) at the University of Toronto(the largest city in Canada), who is supported by the feminist academics there, and many feminists around the world..
http://www.debate.org...

P2. You responded with a blunt ad-hominem, a strawman, and a irrelevancy. (Followed by many, many more)

"Oryus: lol So what??? You've made more dirty, personal attacks at me than possibly anyone on this site- does that discredit everything you've said against feminism? No, actually, that doesn't at all."
http://www.debate.org...

C1. Therefore I am counter-attacking your claims.

Against The Ideologist

It"s not complicated, and its not my English, it's "YOU"!



Jesus christ. You do enjoy being obtuse. My comments concerning you were a counter-example. You have absolutely been an abusive, ridiculous person to me in the past and if you think that video of that woman is any kind of argument against feminism, then YOU are an argument against antifeminism. The reason is because it would be an ad hominem for you to criticize ideas based on a short video of one person's behavior- whether or not they are supported by people. It doesn't mean that their supporters tacitly approve of everything they ever do or say. That is an assumption you're making- and a ridiculous one.

I read plenty of old academics writings and "support" them- but that doesn't mean I think Nietzsche is correct in his brutal sexism or his absurdly egotistical behavior toward others.

If you posted the video as a joke and not to make a point, then there is no need for me to even provide a counter-example or argument at all.

If this extremely simple response is beyond you, then I will pray to the flying spaghetti monster on your behalf. May he find it within himself to be able to talk about feminist ideas without becoming tied up in his own <(80) <(XD) <(8P) emotional reactions and emotional ties and history with those he presumes to be feminists. rAmen.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2014 4:39:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It"s not hate it just looks that way
Part 5

Dirty Deeds
The Fool: For even when I'm hardly serious, being playful, or just plain silly, you try and use your (dirty), feminism tactics on me; via some sort of self-declarative claim of online oppression, rational harassment and/or rhetorical bullying.

Oyrus: Damn! I guess I shouldn't have consulted my Dirty Feminist Tactics guide when talking to you! Or maybe there is a simpler explanation- when I'm aware that any kind of reasoning and conversation is going to be entirely fruitless, for some reason (maybe the person is hell-bent on trying to be right instead of actually engaging in mutually worthwhile discussion or maybe they are so far gone that any amount of effort I put into it will be a waste of time), then I will amuse myself with sarcasm instead.

The Fool: Really, that's a lot of effort and time to spend simply on sarcastic insults.

Oyrus: lol @ "online oppression"- it was really more like, "this guy often acts like an obtuse troll who is known for harassing people and is doing it right now."

The Fool: Infallible claims about your thoughts, do not support "beside the point" ad-hominems, If you have a something relevant to demonstrate, please feel free to provide quotes, examples, and rationale. If not, well then...
Enjoy the 5th amendment.
<(89)

Whose line is it?
Oyrus: Your hypocrisy is also amusing.
And and and and
The Fool: Hypocrisy in regards to what?

Oyrus: Yeah, you're dirty.

The Fool: Yes, I am a big boy now. 104 years old even.
<(8P)

Oyrus: I've never commented on how you look, whether you're hygienic, whether women would find you attractive. I'm sarcastic to a choice few and I really don't feel bad about it. My sarcastic comments are always relevant to what the person said.

The Fool: Why are you telling me about your personal feelings? You sound quite dramatized for someone who is sincerely humored.

Oyrus: Can you remember a time that I made a negative comment about your body, sex, gender, sexuality, relationships, sex life, etc? That is what I would call "dirty" and "beside the point" and it's a line I don't cross. In

The Fool: What? "dirty lawn"?
You're the one who out of nowhere,brought up "your lawn". Quite frankly, I'm not exactly even sure what you mean by that.

I gave a rational and sincere argument against the Feminist invention of "rape culture", since in fact, rate is at an all-time low.
http://www.debate.org...

You responded indirectly, exclaiming "get off my lawn!" alluding that my response was some sort of rape/sexual harassment.

""Oryus: "...[] you can't keep saying that they see all non-sober sex as rape. Now get off my lawn.""
http://www.debate.org...

Now that"s a pretty big line to cross, especially since, nobody is saying what you're claiming. Again.

Lookee Here..
Now I am sorry "little red-faced, huff and puff," but false And/or exaggerated allegations of abuse, and/or stigmatized labeling to harm and/or silence legitimate criticism of men and/or women IS ABUSE. And the Indegree of that abuse is proportionate to the seriousness of the insinuation, and/or accusation.

In response, I have trivially poked fun at your allusion with an indirect, and quite silly reference to a "dirty lawn." That"s fair game, but nonetheless irrelevant.I have nothing to hide, nor is this the Oppression Olympics.

You could just provided a quote and link so support you claims. Instead, you're willing to create for yourself, a drawn-out, drama, a barrage of claims and allegations, intending to silence me, in absence and avoidance of FACTS.

Why? Because, if you did, it would show how trivial and insignificant it was, thus providing support for what you"re trying to get around. Namely:

1.That "even when I'm hardly serious, being playful, or just plain silly, you try and use your (dirty), feminism tactics on me; via some sort of self-declarative claim of online oppression, rational harassment and/or rhetorical bullying.."
2.You take full advantage of the fact that, as a female, your hostilities won't be held as accountable, as it would be if a male was hostile toward you.

Thanks for your generous and unyielding support for this demonstration. I like that. In fact, I like you like that. Let"s bake a cake together..
<(8D)

Ma Monkey: Oh Fool, your such a dirty dog.

Oyrus: It's a line I've seen you cross many times- not just with me.

The Fool: What? I'm not your property. We were on a break...
<(8O)
Besides.......

Against The Ideologist

Wasn"t me!!!
<(8D)

Ma Monkey: Dirt dog, dirty dog!

https://www.youtube.com...
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL