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Breastfeeding in Public

hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was at my brother's barbeque and his wife pulled me aside and told me one of their friends and his wife were coming over.

"So?" I presumed.

"Well, I just wanted to let you know because she breastfeeds without a nursing cover up."

I believe the reason she had that conversation is one of the same reasons it is controversial: because it makes other people uncomfortable.

Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?

If you are defending just so you can see a pair of tits be honest.

(SEE LINKS BELOW)

Nursing Cover Up:
https://www.google.com...

Breastfeeding in Public:
https://www.yahoo.com...
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/6/2014 12:06:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Breasts are sexualized in the United States, and in general the people tend feel comfortable with sexualized material (such as uncovered breasts and genitals) being kept private. That is, if we concieved of a situation where pornography was being displayed in public, a majority of people would complain to have it taken down. Even though breasts in of themselves are not sexual, since citizens have made them sexual they prefer breasts to be something kept private. Therefore, even though breastfeeding is not sexual, since it involves an uncovered breast most people would rather have it kept private.
Nolite Timere
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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8/6/2014 1:08:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 12:06:50 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Breasts are sexualized in the United States, and in general the people tend feel comfortable with sexualized material (such as uncovered breasts and genitals) being kept private. That is, if we concieved of a situation where pornography was being displayed in public, a majority of people would complain to have it taken down. Even though breasts in of themselves are not sexual, since citizens have made them sexual they prefer breasts to be something kept private. Therefore, even though breastfeeding is not sexual, since it involves an uncovered breast most people would rather have it kept private.

This all seems like a non-statement. It's obvious that breasts have been sexualized and that people have been conditioned to receive them in that way in Western society. You stated that but didn't move past it. Yer at least somewhat able to move beyond the inner-discourse on the matter (whether breasts are 'actually' sexual- clearly not) but yer lack of conviction surrounding what is to be done, is indicative of an inability to move past the initial conditioning you mentioned.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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8/6/2014 1:19:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM, hmangini wrote:
Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

Like crypto said, breasts are sexualized. Their primary connotation in our culture is sexual. This is unfortunate because their primary reason for existence is not sexual in the slightest.
I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?

I am not a mother but I have many friends who are mothers, who have or do breastfeed, and who are adamant about not using a cover up. They do so to challenge the stigma. If we continue to hide breasts away when they are out doing their job- to feed babies -yet we feature breasts in sexual ways more absurdly and revealing on billboards and commercials and movies for all to see- we are implying that the only socially acceptable way for women to expose their breasts is in a sexual way for men to see and if it is to nourish their child, they should be ashamed and hide it away.

That is shameful to me and I stand by my friends who disregard the cover-up.

For a period, it will still be shameful and sexual to many people- much like when women began wearing pants or stopped wearing ankle-length skirts. But in the end, people will get over it and it will be mostly un-noteworthy. As it should be.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/6/2014 2:24:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
People should get over themselves. I can find overexposure of the body detestable, but I am gifted with the ability to look away should I find something inappropriate.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/6/2014 4:35:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 1:08:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 12:06:50 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Breasts are sexualized in the United States, and in general the people tend feel comfortable with sexualized material (such as uncovered breasts and genitals) being kept private. That is, if we concieved of a situation where pornography was being displayed in public, a majority of people would complain to have it taken down. Even though breasts in of themselves are not sexual, since citizens have made them sexual they prefer breasts to be something kept private. Therefore, even though breastfeeding is not sexual, since it involves an uncovered breast most people would rather have it kept private.

This all seems like a non-statement. It's obvious that breasts have been sexualized and that people have been conditioned to receive them in that way in Western society. You stated that but didn't move past it. Yer at least somewhat able to move beyond the inner-discourse on the matter (whether breasts are 'actually' sexual- clearly not) but yer lack of conviction surrounding what is to be done, is indicative of an inability to move past the initial conditioning you mentioned.

uhuh...
Nolite Timere
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/6/2014 4:55:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 2:24:03 PM, Mirza wrote:
People should get over themselves. I can find overexposure of the body detestable, but I am gifted with the ability to look away should I find something inappropriate.

Okay, but what about the people who do not know when to look away? One pinhead expressed to me in different slightly different diction, "Who wouldn't want to see a woman's breasts exposed in public and if they don't they'd have to be gay."

I have to ask, did you look at the links posted in the initial post?
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/6/2014 5:01:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 1:19:34 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM, hmangini wrote:
Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

Like crypto said, breasts are sexualized. Their primary connotation in our culture is sexual. This is unfortunate because their primary reason for existence is not sexual in the slightest.
I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?

I am not a mother but I have many friends who are mothers, who have or do breastfeed, and who are adamant about not using a cover up. They do so to challenge the stigma. If we continue to hide breasts away when they are out doing their job- to feed babies -yet we feature breasts in sexual ways more absurdly and revealing on billboards and commercials and movies for all to see- we are implying that the only socially acceptable way for women to expose their breasts is in a sexual way for men to see and if it is to nourish their child, they should be ashamed and hide it away.

That is shameful to me and I stand by my friends who disregard the cover-up.

For a period, it will still be shameful and sexual to many people- much like when women began wearing pants or stopped wearing ankle-length skirts. But in the end, people will get over it and it will be mostly un-noteworthy. As it should be.
----
I do agree with your comments here and on the prior post about clothes.

I never thought of breastfeeding as some sort of movement for women. It does provide a new perspective.

Although, you want breasts to be exposed because you don't want them to be seen as sexual? Men like breasts. Period.
If it was okay for a man's genitals to be exposed it would not change the way I feel about them.

I am not saying women should not breastfeed in public, I just think they should be discreet about it in some way.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/6/2014 5:03:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 4:55:12 PM, hmangini wrote:
Okay, but what about the people who do not know when to look away?
I have no idea, perhaps you should ask them. Is a woman uncomfortable with being stared at? That's too bad for her; everyone can stare at whatever they wish in public space.

I have to ask, did you look at the links posted in the initial post?
Yes. In private areas, the persons with authority can decide what rules they should implement. In public space, if women breastfeed the way you showed in the one link, then there shouldn't be a problem. Look away. If she's uncomfortable, she can cover up.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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8/6/2014 5:07:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 5:01:30 PM, hmangini wrote:
At 8/6/2014 1:19:34 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM, hmangini wrote:
Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

Like crypto said, breasts are sexualized. Their primary connotation in our culture is sexual. This is unfortunate because their primary reason for existence is not sexual in the slightest.
I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?

I am not a mother but I have many friends who are mothers, who have or do breastfeed, and who are adamant about not using a cover up. They do so to challenge the stigma. If we continue to hide breasts away when they are out doing their job- to feed babies -yet we feature breasts in sexual ways more absurdly and revealing on billboards and commercials and movies for all to see- we are implying that the only socially acceptable way for women to expose their breasts is in a sexual way for men to see and if it is to nourish their child, they should be ashamed and hide it away.

That is shameful to me and I stand by my friends who disregard the cover-up.

For a period, it will still be shameful and sexual to many people- much like when women began wearing pants or stopped wearing ankle-length skirts. But in the end, people will get over it and it will be mostly un-noteworthy. As it should be.
----
I do agree with your comments here and on the prior post about clothes.

I never thought of breastfeeding as some sort of movement for women. It does provide a new perspective.

Although, you want breasts to be exposed because you don't want them to be seen as sexual? Men like breasts. Period.

America is obsessed with breasts. It's part of the culture. It is not quite as natural and cut-and-dried as "period." Most men would probably still be attracted to breasts after a stigma was gone but this wouldn't be such a contentious issue. A mere 60 years ago, a tiny bikini was scandalous. Now it is common for women to wear tiny string bikinis. They get looks, sure. Sometimes they get comments. But there is not so much a stigma surrounding it as there used to be- that every woman who would do such a thing is on par with a porn star. It's just not the case. I wear a bikini because I hate weird tan lines and they are comfortable when it's super hot outside.

I anticipate this shift with breast-feeding too.

If it was okay for a man's genitals to be exposed it would not change the way I feel about them.

I am not saying women should not breastfeed in public, I just think they should be discreet about it in some way.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/6/2014 5:08:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
My post above, for the record, is about the law and breastfeeding - which is often important to reflect upon.

At 8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM, hmangini wrote:
I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?
Let me ask - why do you think that is?
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/6/2014 5:24:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 5:03:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/6/2014 4:55:12 PM, hmangini wrote:
Okay, but what about the people who do not know when to look away?
I have no idea, perhaps you should ask them. Is a woman uncomfortable with being stared at? That's too bad for her; everyone can stare at whatever they wish in public space.

I have to ask, did you look at the links posted in the initial post?
Yes. In private areas, the persons with authority can decide what rules they should implement. In public space, if women breastfeed the way you showed in the one link, then there shouldn't be a problem. Look away. If she's uncomfortable, she can cover up.

_____
In response to the law question:
Yes, we are a democracy, but that doesn't mean we are allowed to be nude in public.

Your are a 20 year old male, I think it's okay with you because you just want to look.
If you look at the comments on the picture other men say things like, "I want what the baby's having." Do women who go out in public with their boyfriends or husbands want them to gawk?

Is it not in the least bit inconsiderate?

One commenter said she did not promote nursing caps because she doesn't want breastfeeding to be seen as sexual. (View her comment for accurate statement)

What's yours?
rross
Posts: 2,772
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8/6/2014 7:12:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM, hmangini wrote:
I was at my brother's barbeque and his wife pulled me aside and told me one of their friends and his wife were coming over.

"So?" I presumed.

"Well, I just wanted to let you know because she breastfeeds without a nursing cover up."

I believe the reason she had that conversation is one of the same reasons it is controversial: because it makes other people uncomfortable.

Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?

If you are defending just so you can see a pair of tits be honest.

(SEE LINKS BELOW)

Nursing Cover Up:
https://www.google.com...

Breastfeeding in Public:
https://www.yahoo.com...

Babies need to eat. Seeing breasts doesn't hurt people. I honestly can't see the problem.
neptune1bond
Posts: 400
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8/6/2014 7:44:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I actually don't care what people do in public. I honestly wouldn't care if any person decided to run around naked. Even if I saw two people f*cking on a park bench, I'd probably be like,"Hey, Good for you! Enjoy!" I agree that if you do something in a public space, that you have no right to make demands on what people can or cannot look at. In fact, if you choose to whip your breasts out for any reason then it is only reasonable to expect that people will look. If you are uncomfortable being an exhibitionist, then use the cover-up thingy. Although I appreciate a fine pair of breasts as much as the next guy, that isn't the only reason I'm saying this. The actual main reason that I'm saying it is because a public space is exactly that...PUBLIC...meaning that it belongs to everyone. It is a real sign of our f*cked up society that people start thinking that they have every right to go around making demands on what people can or cannot say, do, or think in a public space. So, sure, pull out your breasts all you like, but people are gonna look so get used to it.

I also do not buy into the "breasts aren't sexual" b.s. Did it ever occur to some women that things can serve TWO purposes? Sure, all the women can say that they don't think that breasts are sexual, but ask any average heterosexual man what he thinks and I'm sure you could easily tell me what the answer would be 99% of the time. You only don't find them sexual because you're not a lesbian. Even a number of women also find their own breasts to be sexual because they actually receive sexual stimulation through their breasts and/or are aroused by the idea of a man somehow interacting with her breasts during sex. I really doubt any amount of exposure is going to make men stop finding breasts to be arousing. So, in other words, the vast majority of the male population does indeed find breasts to be sexual, therefor breasts are sexual AND for feeding babies. Although, obviously, the baby feeding is the more important role, that doesn't eliminate the sexual role for men and the role that it plays in attraction.

But, if we want to follow that logic, my d*ck can also be considered nonsexual. The primary function of my d*ck is to urinate. I might receive sexual stimulation through my d*ck (like some women do through their breasts), but if I never had sex I could live, whereas if I didn't piss I would die. Never mind that half of the population might see my d*ck as sexual, I personally don't get aroused by my own d*ck and I could therefor say everyone else should see it that way too by the prevailing logic here. I personally drink a lot of water for health reasons and I have to take a piss frequently because of this. I think that I should be able to urinate into gutters on the side of the street instead of having to do it privately. In this case, my d*ck is serving absolutely NO sexual function and therefor no one has any right to see it as a sexual thing (again according to the similar breast-feeding logic). Maybe if the laws were changed, I should just start whipping my d*ck out in public and pissing into gutters so that people can just get used to it. It's so inconvenient to have to find a bathroom sometimes, especially when I need to piss every couple of hours (in fact, it's probably more inconvenient than having to use a cover-up breast-feeding thingy since I frequently have to drive somewhere else entirely and in some cities you have to always buy something at their d@mn store before you can use their f*cking bathroom. Horrible horrible customer service, IMHO)
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/6/2014 9:03:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 7:12:03 PM, rross wrote:
At 8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM, hmangini wrote:
I was at my brother's barbeque and his wife pulled me aside and told me one of their friends and his wife were coming over.

"So?" I presumed.

"Well, I just wanted to let you know because she breastfeeds without a nursing cover up."

I believe the reason she had that conversation is one of the same reasons it is controversial: because it makes other people uncomfortable.

Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?

If you are defending just so you can see a pair of tits be honest.

(SEE LINKS BELOW)

Nursing Cover Up:
https://www.google.com...

Breastfeeding in Public:
https://www.yahoo.com...

Babies need to eat. Seeing breasts doesn't hurt people. I honestly can't see the problem.

Good point. But if they offend people why can't they use a nursing cap? (Google image)
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/6/2014 9:06:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 7:44:16 PM, neptune1bond wrote:
I actually don't care what people do in public. I honestly wouldn't care if any person decided to run around naked. Even if I saw two people f*cking on a park bench, I'd probably be like,"Hey, Good for you! Enjoy!" I agree that if you do something in a public space, that you have no right to make demands on what people can or cannot look at. In fact, if you choose to whip your breasts out for any reason then it is only reasonable to expect that people will look. If you are uncomfortable being an exhibitionist, then use the cover-up thingy. Although I appreciate a fine pair of breasts as much as the next guy, that isn't the only reason I'm saying this. The actual main reason that I'm saying it is because a public space is exactly that...PUBLIC...meaning that it belongs to everyone. It is a real sign of our f*cked up society that people start thinking that they have every right to go around making demands on what people can or cannot say, do, or think in a public space. So, sure, pull out your breasts all you like, but people are gonna look so get used to it.

I also do not buy into the "breasts aren't sexual" b.s. Did it ever occur to some women that things can serve TWO purposes? Sure, all the women can say that they don't think that breasts are sexual, but ask any average heterosexual man what he thinks and I'm sure you could easily tell me what the answer would be 99% of the time. You only don't find them sexual because you're not a lesbian. Even a number of women also find their own breasts to be sexual because they actually receive sexual stimulation through their breasts and/or are aroused by the idea of a man somehow interacting with her breasts during sex. I really doubt any amount of exposure is going to make men stop finding breasts to be arousing. So, in other words, the vast majority of the male population does indeed find breasts to be sexual, therefor breasts are sexual AND for feeding babies. Although, obviously, the baby feeding is the more important role, that doesn't eliminate the sexual role for men and the role that it plays in attraction.

But, if we want to follow that logic, my d*ck can also be considered nonsexual. The primary function of my d*ck is to urinate. I might receive sexual stimulation through my d*ck (like some women do through their breasts), but if I never had sex I could live, whereas if I didn't piss I would die. Never mind that half of the population might see my d*ck as sexual, I personally don't get aroused by my own d*ck and I could therefor say everyone else should see it that way too by the prevailing logic here. I personally drink a lot of water for health reasons and I have to take a piss frequently because of this. I think that I should be able to urinate into gutters on the side of the street instead of having to do it privately. In this case, my d*ck is serving absolutely NO sexual function and therefor no one has any right to see it as a sexual thing (again according to the similar breast-feeding logic). Maybe if the laws were changed, I should just start whipping my d*ck out in public and pissing into gutters so that people can just get used to it. It's so inconvenient to have to find a bathroom sometimes, especially when I need to piss every couple of hours (in fact, it's probably more inconvenient than having to use a cover-up breast-feeding thingy since I frequently have to drive somewhere else entirely and in some cities you have to always buy something at their d@mn store before you can use their f*cking bathroom. Horrible horrible customer service, IMHO)

-----

No one is demanding anything. lol. Just sharing opinions, looking at different perspectives.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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8/6/2014 9:20:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 9:03:37 PM, hmangini wrote:
At 8/6/2014 7:12:03 PM, rross wrote:
At 8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM, hmangini wrote:
I was at my brother's barbeque and his wife pulled me aside and told me one of their friends and his wife were coming over.

"So?" I presumed.

"Well, I just wanted to let you know because she breastfeeds without a nursing cover up."

I believe the reason she had that conversation is one of the same reasons it is controversial: because it makes other people uncomfortable.

Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?

If you are defending just so you can see a pair of tits be honest.

(SEE LINKS BELOW)

Nursing Cover Up:
https://www.google.com...

Breastfeeding in Public:
https://www.yahoo.com...

Babies need to eat. Seeing breasts doesn't hurt people. I honestly can't see the problem.

Good point. But if they offend people why can't they use a nursing cap? (Google image)

Oh well. To me, it's not really about offensive or not, but rather about power of society over the individual.

If a mother is in a restaurant eating with her family, everyone is eating uncovered. Why should there be a convention that prohibits her baby from eating uncovered? Why shouldn't she, while sitting at her table, whip out her breast to feed the youngest family member? Just as, the people at the next table might be talking about castration in quiet voices. Sure, someone passing by might listen in and get offended, but that's no reason to limit free speech.

Think of an extreme example. Suppose the white majority decided that Asian faces were offensive and should be covered at all times. Or that gay people shouldn't be allowed to kiss in public. Of course, their feelings of outrage are overridden by civil rights considerations. Similarly, insisting that babies are covered while eating is age-based discrimination. No other category of human is restricted in that way.
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/6/2014 9:26:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 9:20:25 PM, rross wrote:
At 8/6/2014 9:03:37 PM, hmangini wrote:
At 8/6/2014 7:12:03 PM, rross wrote:
At 8/6/2014 9:46:43 AM, hmangini wrote:
I was at my brother's barbeque and his wife pulled me aside and told me one of their friends and his wife were coming over.

"So?" I presumed.

"Well, I just wanted to let you know because she breastfeeds without a nursing cover up."

I believe the reason she had that conversation is one of the same reasons it is controversial: because it makes other people uncomfortable.

Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

I am not a mother so help me to understand; why do some women breastfeed in public without a nursing cover up?

If you are defending just so you can see a pair of tits be honest.

(SEE LINKS BELOW)

Nursing Cover Up:
https://www.google.com...

Breastfeeding in Public:
https://www.yahoo.com...

Babies need to eat. Seeing breasts doesn't hurt people. I honestly can't see the problem.

Good point. But if they offend people why can't they use a nursing cap? (Google image)

Oh well. To me, it's not really about offensive or not, but rather about power of society over the individual.

If a mother is in a restaurant eating with her family, everyone is eating uncovered. Why should there be a convention that prohibits her baby from eating uncovered? Why shouldn't she, while sitting at her table, whip out her breast to feed the youngest family member? Just as, the people at the next table might be talking about castration in quiet voices. Sure, someone passing by might listen in and get offended, but that's no reason to limit free speech.

Think of an extreme example. Suppose the white majority decided that Asian faces were offensive and should be covered at all times. Or that gay people shouldn't be allowed to kiss in public. Of course, their feelings of outrage are overridden by civil rights considerations. Similarly, insisting that babies are covered while eating is age-based discrimination. No other category of human is restricted in that way.

----
So if we do not discriminate against race, we allow freedom of speech (etc.) then we should also allow nudity?
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/6/2014 9:27:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 7:44:16 PM, neptune1bond wrote:
I actually don't care what people do in public. I honestly wouldn't care if any person decided to run around naked. Even if I saw two people f*cking on a park bench, I'd probably be like,"Hey, Good for you! Enjoy!" I agree that if you do something in a public space, that you have no right to make demands on what people can or cannot look at. In fact, if you choose to whip your breasts out for any reason then it is only reasonable to expect that people will look. If you are uncomfortable being an exhibitionist, then use the cover-up thingy. Although I appreciate a fine pair of breasts as much as the next guy, that isn't the only reason I'm saying this. The actual main reason that I'm saying it is because a public space is exactly that...PUBLIC...meaning that it belongs to everyone. It is a real sign of our f*cked up society that people start thinking that they have every right to go around making demands on what people can or cannot say, do, or think in a public space. So, sure, pull out your breasts all you like, but people are gonna look so get used to it.

I also do not buy into the "breasts aren't sexual" b.s. Did it ever occur to some women that things can serve TWO purposes? Sure, all the women can say that they don't think that breasts are sexual, but ask any average heterosexual man what he thinks and I'm sure you could easily tell me what the answer would be 99% of the time. You only don't find them sexual because you're not a lesbian. Even a number of women also find their own breasts to be sexual because they actually receive sexual stimulation through their breasts and/or are aroused by the idea of a man somehow interacting with her breasts during sex. I really doubt any amount of exposure is going to make men stop finding breasts to be arousing. So, in other words, the vast majority of the male population does indeed find breasts to be sexual, therefor breasts are sexual AND for feeding babies. Although, obviously, the baby feeding is the more important role, that doesn't eliminate the sexual role for men and the role that it plays in attraction.

But, if we want to follow that logic, my d*ck can also be considered nonsexual. The primary function of my d*ck is to urinate. I might receive sexual stimulation through my d*ck (like some women do through their breasts), but if I never had sex I could live, whereas if I didn't piss I would die. Never mind that half of the population might see my d*ck as sexual, I personally don't get aroused by my own d*ck and I could therefor say everyone else should see it that way too by the prevailing logic here. I personally drink a lot of water for health reasons and I have to take a piss frequently because of this. I think that I should be able to urinate into gutters on the side of the street instead of having to do it privately. In this case, my d*ck is serving absolutely NO sexual function and therefor no one has any right to see it as a sexual thing (again according to the similar breast-feeding logic). Maybe if the laws were changed, I should just start whipping my d*ck out in public and pissing into gutters so that people can just get used to it. It's so inconvenient to have to find a bathroom sometimes, especially when I need to piss every couple of hours (in fact, it's probably more inconvenient than having to use a cover-up breast-feeding thingy since I frequently have to drive somewhere else entirely and in some cities you have to always buy something at their d@mn store before you can use their f*cking bathroom. Horrible horrible customer service, IMHO)
-----
The d*ck analogy is interesting though.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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8/6/2014 9:28:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 9:26:23 PM, hmangini wrote:

So if we do not discriminate against race, we allow freedom of speech (etc.) then we should also allow nudity?

If by "nudity" you mean "breastfeeding in public" then yes, I think so.
Mirza
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8/6/2014 10:09:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 5:24:18 PM, hmangini wrote:
In response to the law question:
Yes, we are a democracy, but that doesn't mean we are allowed to be nude in public.
Once again I must emphasize the fact that one can look away with ease should there be any inappropriate on display. If public nudity ever became allowed at most places, I strongly doubt most people would take the matter lightly and display themselves. There are a variety of reasons unrelated to the law that repel our will to walk naked in public.

Your are a 20 year old male, I think it's okay with you because you just want to look.
Not at all the case. I couldn't care less if a woman breastfed. I find it acceptable (by law and for the sake of personal choice) for people to drink alcohol, consume other drugs, and many things which I never put in my mouth or inject in my veins. What I detest doing is a personal matter; what others like doing is theirs.

If you look at the comments on the picture other men say things like, "I want what the baby's having." Do women who go out in public with their boyfriends or husbands want them to gawk?
If they do NOT, then they should NOT put their bodies on display. Everyone can stare at anything they like in public. Or listen. If your problem is that these women want to display themselves but not have others stare - then that's their stupidity showing off. There will be staring. There are many things we would not want people to stare at, but the reality is that curiosity and desire trumps our will very so often.

Is it not in the least bit inconsiderate?
Yes. Do the women want to breastfeed without being stared at? Then there are private areas for that. Again - people CAN and WILL stare a lot in public areas that catch their interests. People also stare at women covered fully. Inconsiderate, but allowable, and period.

What's yours?
Women should breastfeed if they want, men should not stare, but should be allowed to. Women who think there won't be staring at probably stupid. A man stripping on the street might also want privacy. He won't get it.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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8/6/2014 10:49:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 4:35:38 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 1:08:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 12:06:50 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Breasts are sexualized in the United States, and in general the people tend feel comfortable with sexualized material (such as uncovered breasts and genitals) being kept private. That is, if we concieved of a situation where pornography was being displayed in public, a majority of people would complain to have it taken down. Even though breasts in of themselves are not sexual, since citizens have made them sexual they prefer breasts to be something kept private. Therefore, even though breastfeeding is not sexual, since it involves an uncovered breast most people would rather have it kept private.

This all seems like a non-statement. It's obvious that breasts have been sexualized and that people have been conditioned to receive them in that way in Western society. You stated that but didn't move past it. Yer at least somewhat able to move beyond the inner-discourse on the matter (whether breasts are 'actually' sexual- clearly not) but yer lack of conviction surrounding what is to be done, is indicative of an inability to move past the initial conditioning you mentioned.

uhuh...

I'm basically saying "You recognize that sexualizing breasts is a problem but you take people's inability to change either as a given or as extremely unlikely. Why not provoke discussion concerning what to do about this problem instead of simply resigning yerself to it?".
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
xXCryptoXx
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8/6/2014 10:54:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 10:49:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 4:35:38 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 1:08:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 12:06:50 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Breasts are sexualized in the United States, and in general the people tend feel comfortable with sexualized material (such as uncovered breasts and genitals) being kept private. That is, if we concieved of a situation where pornography was being displayed in public, a majority of people would complain to have it taken down. Even though breasts in of themselves are not sexual, since citizens have made them sexual they prefer breasts to be something kept private. Therefore, even though breastfeeding is not sexual, since it involves an uncovered breast most people would rather have it kept private.

This all seems like a non-statement. It's obvious that breasts have been sexualized and that people have been conditioned to receive them in that way in Western society. You stated that but didn't move past it. Yer at least somewhat able to move beyond the inner-discourse on the matter (whether breasts are 'actually' sexual- clearly not) but yer lack of conviction surrounding what is to be done, is indicative of an inability to move past the initial conditioning you mentioned.

uhuh...

I'm basically saying "You recognize that sexualizing breasts is a problem but you take people's inability to change either as a given or as extremely unlikely. Why not provoke discussion concerning what to do about this problem instead of simply resigning yerself to it?".

It is what it is I suppose. I'm not particularly interested in leading a progressive group in desexualizing breasts. I don't think it is much of a problem as a whole. For as long as women decide they should be able to breastfeed in public, the public will have to learn how to deal with it.
Nolite Timere
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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8/6/2014 11:05:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 10:54:57 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 10:49:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 4:35:38 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 1:08:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 12:06:50 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Breasts are sexualized in the United States, and in general the people tend feel comfortable with sexualized material (such as uncovered breasts and genitals) being kept private. That is, if we concieved of a situation where pornography was being displayed in public, a majority of people would complain to have it taken down. Even though breasts in of themselves are not sexual, since citizens have made them sexual they prefer breasts to be something kept private. Therefore, even though breastfeeding is not sexual, since it involves an uncovered breast most people would rather have it kept private.

This all seems like a non-statement. It's obvious that breasts have been sexualized and that people have been conditioned to receive them in that way in Western society. You stated that but didn't move past it. Yer at least somewhat able to move beyond the inner-discourse on the matter (whether breasts are 'actually' sexual- clearly not) but yer lack of conviction surrounding what is to be done, is indicative of an inability to move past the initial conditioning you mentioned.

uhuh...

I'm basically saying "You recognize that sexualizing breasts is a problem but you take people's inability to change either as a given or as extremely unlikely. Why not provoke discussion concerning what to do about this problem instead of simply resigning yerself to it?".

It is what it is I suppose. I'm not particularly interested in leading a progressive group in desexualizing breasts.

Wasn't really suggesting that. More like conversation within the context of this thread.

I don't think it is much of a problem as a whole.

It's part of a broader problem. Woman are conditioned to abide by a way of viewing themselves/being viewed which is regulated by men. It relates to the fact that "society's" views of what is appropriate for woman are "men's" views.

For as long as women decide they should be able to breastfeed in public, the public will have to learn how to deal with it.

I feel like yer ignoring counter-reactive tendencies here.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/6/2014 11:10:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 11:05:09 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 10:54:57 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 10:49:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 4:35:38 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 1:08:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 12:06:50 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Breasts are sexualized in the United States, and in general the people tend feel comfortable with sexualized material (such as uncovered breasts and genitals) being kept private. That is, if we concieved of a situation where pornography was being displayed in public, a majority of people would complain to have it taken down. Even though breasts in of themselves are not sexual, since citizens have made them sexual they prefer breasts to be something kept private. Therefore, even though breastfeeding is not sexual, since it involves an uncovered breast most people would rather have it kept private.

This all seems like a non-statement. It's obvious that breasts have been sexualized and that people have been conditioned to receive them in that way in Western society. You stated that but didn't move past it. Yer at least somewhat able to move beyond the inner-discourse on the matter (whether breasts are 'actually' sexual- clearly not) but yer lack of conviction surrounding what is to be done, is indicative of an inability to move past the initial conditioning you mentioned.

uhuh...

I'm basically saying "You recognize that sexualizing breasts is a problem but you take people's inability to change either as a given or as extremely unlikely. Why not provoke discussion concerning what to do about this problem instead of simply resigning yerself to it?".

It is what it is I suppose. I'm not particularly interested in leading a progressive group in desexualizing breasts.

Wasn't really suggesting that. More like conversation within the context of this thread.

I don't think it is much of a problem as a whole.

It's part of a broader problem. Woman are conditioned to abide by a way of viewing themselves/being viewed which is regulated by men. It relates to the fact that "society's" views of what is appropriate for woman are "men's" views.

So then stop caring and push the limits, which is already being done via breastfeeding in public. I am sure women are getting fed up with it.

For as long as women decide they should be able to breastfeed in public, the public will have to learn how to deal with it.

I feel like yer ignoring counter-reactive tendencies here.

I suppose I am optimistic that women (if they truly care) will continue to push the boundaries regardless of the reactions of the public.
Nolite Timere
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/7/2014 6:28:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
> Why does it make people uncomfortable? Well, it's not only women who see your breasts, it's men, young boys, little girls, old men, etcetera. Is that not in the least bit odd?

Only if you've been taught and conditioned to think it is. There is nothing inherently odd about exposed breasts. There are plenty of cultures where female nudity is not taboo.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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8/7/2014 6:37:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 7:44:16 PM, neptune1bond wrote:

I also do not buy into the "breasts aren't sexual" b.s. Did it ever occur to some women that things can serve TWO purposes?

No one is saying breasts aren't sexual or don't serve a function in sexuality. Indeed, they have a big role in signifying puberty and, hence, fertility. But, you know, so does facial hair, wide hips, deep voice, etc. The sexualization of breasts that you take as a norm is actually a cultural phenomenon that is NOT shared by all cultures meaning your next statement:

Sure, all the women can say that they don't think that breasts are sexual, but ask any average heterosexual man what he thinks and I'm sure you could easily tell me what the answer would be 99% of the time.

Reeks of ethnocentrism. Pick an African or South American tribe and they'll probably laugh at Western male fascination with breasts. In fact, they do and are recorded as believing it to be somewhat infantile as, in their cultures, breasts are primarily for the feeding of infants.

But, if we want to follow that logic, my d*ck can also be considered nonsexual.

Uhm, no. The penis is a primary sexual organ. It is directly involved in the sex act while breasts are secondary sexual characteristics.
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/7/2014 7:58:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/7/2014 6:37:20 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/6/2014 7:44:16 PM, neptune1bond wrote:

I also do not buy into the "breasts aren't sexual" b.s. Did it ever occur to some women that things can serve TWO purposes?

No one is saying breasts aren't sexual or don't serve a function in sexuality. Indeed, they have a big role in signifying puberty and, hence, fertility. But, you know, so does facial hair, wide hips, deep voice, etc. The sexualization of breasts that you take as a norm is actually a cultural phenomenon that is NOT shared by all cultures meaning your next statement:

Sure, all the women can say that they don't think that breasts are sexual, but ask any average heterosexual man what he thinks and I'm sure you could easily tell me what the answer would be 99% of the time.

Reeks of ethnocentrism. Pick an African or South American tribe and they'll probably laugh at Western male fascination with breasts. In fact, they do and are recorded as believing it to be somewhat infantile as, in their cultures, breasts are primarily for the feeding of infants.

But, if we want to follow that logic, my d*ck can also be considered nonsexual.

Uhm, no. The penis is a primary sexual organ. It is directly involved in the sex act while breasts are secondary sexual characteristics.

Ethnocentrism definitely plays a major role.
Yes, America does have a fascination with breasts. Will we ever accept breasts as solely the secondary characteristic? That will probably happen the day 'boob jobs' are not longer prominent.

All sexual organs have secondary characteristics.

A man pulls his penis out to urinate in public and is filed as a sexual predator. A woman pull her breasts out to breast feed without using a nursing cap and it's 'beautiful'.
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/7/2014 8:03:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 11:10:20 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 11:05:09 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 10:54:57 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 10:49:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 4:35:38 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/6/2014 1:08:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/6/2014 12:06:50 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Breasts are sexualized in the United States, and in general the people tend feel comfortable with sexualized material (such as uncovered breasts and genitals) being kept private. That is, if we concieved of a situation where pornography was being displayed in public, a majority of people would complain to have it taken down. Even though breasts in of themselves are not sexual, since citizens have made them sexual they prefer breasts to be something kept private. Therefore, even though breastfeeding is not sexual, since it involves an uncovered breast most people would rather have it kept private.

This all seems like a non-statement. It's obvious that breasts have been sexualized and that people have been conditioned to receive them in that way in Western society. You stated that but didn't move past it. Yer at least somewhat able to move beyond the inner-discourse on the matter (whether breasts are 'actually' sexual- clearly not) but yer lack of conviction surrounding what is to be done, is indicative of an inability to move past the initial conditioning you mentioned.

uhuh...

I'm basically saying "You recognize that sexualizing breasts is a problem but you take people's inability to change either as a given or as extremely unlikely. Why not provoke discussion concerning what to do about this problem instead of simply resigning yerself to it?".

It is what it is I suppose. I'm not particularly interested in leading a progressive group in desexualizing breasts.

Wasn't really suggesting that. More like conversation within the context of this thread.

I don't think it is much of a problem as a whole.

It's part of a broader problem. Woman are conditioned to abide by a way of viewing themselves/being viewed which is regulated by men. It relates to the fact that "society's" views of what is appropriate for woman are "men's" views.

So then stop caring and push the limits, which is already being done via breastfeeding in public. I am sure women are getting fed up with it.

For as long as women decide they should be able to breastfeed in public, the public will have to learn how to deal with it.

I feel like yer ignoring counter-reactive tendencies here.

I suppose I am optimistic that women (if they truly care) will continue to push the boundaries regardless of the reactions of the public.
----------

And what do they truly care about? What is the fight? The purpose? What are they trying to achieve?

Women can breastfeed in public. Why not be discreet about it though?
hmangini
Posts: 28
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8/7/2014 8:15:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 10:09:24 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/6/2014 5:24:18 PM, hmangini wrote:
In response to the law question:
Yes, we are a democracy, but that doesn't mean we are allowed to be nude in public.
Once again I must emphasize the fact that one can look away with ease should there be any inappropriate on display. If public nudity ever became allowed at most places, I strongly doubt most people would take the matter lightly and display themselves. There are a variety of reasons unrelated to the law that repel our will to walk naked in public.

Your are a 20 year old male, I think it's okay with you because you just want to look.
Not at all the case. I couldn't care less if a woman breastfed. I find it acceptable (by law and for the sake of personal choice) for people to drink alcohol, consume other drugs, and many things which I never put in my mouth or inject in my veins. What I detest doing is a personal matter; what others like doing is theirs.

If you look at the comments on the picture other men say things like, "I want what the baby's having." Do women who go out in public with their boyfriends or husbands want them to gawk?
If they do NOT, then they should NOT put their bodies on display. Everyone can stare at anything they like in public. Or listen. If your problem is that these women want to display themselves but not have others stare - then that's their stupidity showing off. There will be staring. There are many things we would not want people to stare at, but the reality is that curiosity and desire trumps our will very so often.

Is it not in the least bit inconsiderate?
Yes. Do the women want to breastfeed without being stared at? Then there are private areas for that. Again - people CAN and WILL stare a lot in public areas that catch their interests. People also stare at women covered fully. Inconsiderate, but allowable, and period.

What's yours?
Women should breastfeed if they want, men should not stare, but should be allowed to. Women who think there won't be staring at probably stupid. A man stripping on the street might also want privacy. He won't get it.

---
So, it's inconsiderate and people will stare, but it's okay because if people stare at you with your clothes on it's the same thing if your clothes are off?

I am having trouble seeing your exact point.