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Does "Race" Really Exist?

GeoLaureate8
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3/8/2010 12:13:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
No.

What makes a black man from England, "black"? What makes a white man from Africa, "white"? What makes an albino (white skin) black person, "black"?

If it's not the location of birth or color of skin, then what is it? Nothing. It's made up. It doesn't actually exist. It's just people's prejudiced views of a person based on the amount of melanin (brown color) in their skin.

There is no empirical method of distinguishing between races.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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3/8/2010 1:24:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Genetic wise, inter group variance tends to be greater than intra group. However that's not to say clusters of genetic traits don't exist, they do, but tend to be related to geographical location and occurs in gradations.

The argument for a cultural definition of race is maybe stronger than the biological one, though it suffers from the same gradation problems and is less likely to be geographically bound.
KafkianRoach
Posts: 20
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3/8/2010 7:43:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 2:05:47 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
There is only one human race.

Basically what I was going to say, .. except I would've said Species, .. except there are a lot of different species. And we're just one of them.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/8/2010 7:47:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Geo, you racist. :P jk, jk...

Anyway, I'm blind to race. A person could be black, white, purple, green, or anything else and it's fine by me.
GeoLaureate8
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3/8/2010 7:57:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 7:54:56 PM, Nags wrote:
Why do races have different IQs, then?

http://www.vdare.com...
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

Evidence fail...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Anarcho
Posts: 887
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3/8/2010 7:58:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am pretty sure many black people are smarter than you. IQ does not determine how smart one is anyways.
InsertNameHere wrote: "If we evolved from apes then why are apes still around?

This is semi-serious btw. It's something that seems strange to me. You'd think that entire species would cease to exist if other ones evolved from them."

Anarcho wrote: *facepalm*
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/8/2010 7:59:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At the base of the debate is the observation that intelligence quotient (IQ) tests have demonstrated significant differences in the average scores of different population groups, particularly US Blacks and Whites (racially self-identified for the most part). No consensus exists regarding the meaning and/or relevance of these differences, and numerous interpretations have been proposed to clarify them. A particularly controversial facet of this debate is the relative degree to which the development of intelligence is affected by genetic factors on the one hand and environmental factors on the other.

Within individuals, some factors of intelligence are clearly affected by genetics. However, no set populations of humans have been found to have significant genetic differences that would affect the average group intelligence. Also part of the debate is whether measures such as IQ can meaningfully quantify such differences, and whether it would be beneficial or ethical to study differences if they did exist.[6] Various explanations for racial group differences have been proposed, such as the effect of a population's health, differences in education quality, sub-conscious psychological factors, and institutional racial discrimination. While environmental differences could statistically account for differences in test scores, no specific environmental factor has been identified as a definitive cause, and no direct evidence exists for genetic factors.[7]

Although research and debate on race and intelligence encompasses a variety of topics, the nature versus nurture question attracts the most public attention.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/8/2010 7:59:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 7:58:00 PM, Anarcho wrote:
I am pretty sure many black people are smarter than you. IQ does not determine how smart one is anyways.

IQ = Intelligence Quotia
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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3/8/2010 7:59:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 7:57:22 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/8/2010 7:54:56 PM, Nags wrote:
Why do races have different IQs, then?

http://www.vdare.com...
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

Evidence fail...

Why?

At 3/8/2010 7:58:00 PM, Anarcho wrote:
I am pretty sure many black people are smarter than you. IQ does not determine how smart one is anyways.

Welcome to DDO. Terrible waste of a first post, though. Straw man.
Anarcho
Posts: 887
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3/8/2010 8:03:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
IQ = Intelligence Quotia

It just means how much one can rememver.
InsertNameHere wrote: "If we evolved from apes then why are apes still around?

This is semi-serious btw. It's something that seems strange to me. You'd think that entire species would cease to exist if other ones evolved from them."

Anarcho wrote: *facepalm*
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/8/2010 8:04:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 7:59:52 PM, Nags wrote:
At 3/8/2010 7:57:22 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/8/2010 7:54:56 PM, Nags wrote:
Why do races have different IQs, then?

http://www.vdare.com...
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

Evidence fail...

Why?

The first link had nothing to do with anything. The second link presupposes that race exists in the first place. It's a circular argument. I'd also question the validity of that bootleg graph.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Anarcho
Posts: 887
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3/8/2010 8:05:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Welcome to DDO. Terrible waste of a first post, though. Straw man.

So are you denying that black people are smarter than you?
InsertNameHere wrote: "If we evolved from apes then why are apes still around?

This is semi-serious btw. It's something that seems strange to me. You'd think that entire species would cease to exist if other ones evolved from them."

Anarcho wrote: *facepalm*
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/8/2010 8:06:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 8:03:51 PM, Anarcho wrote:
IQ = Intelligence Quotia

It just means how much one can rememver.

It's used to diagnose mental retardation.

An intelligence quotient, or IQ, is a score derived from one of several different standardized tests designed to assess intelligence.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/8/2010 8:07:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 8:05:05 PM, Anarcho wrote:
Welcome to DDO. Terrible waste of a first post, though. Straw man.

So are you denying that black people are smarter than you?

He's saying on average, the white race has a higher intelligence quotia than the black race.

It's a fact.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/8/2010 8:10:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 8:04:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The first link had nothing to do with anything. The second link presupposes that race exists in the first place. It's a circular argument. I'd also question the validity of that bootleg graph.

Come to think of it, your first link proves my point, not yours. lol

Your link suggests that intelligence is related to your geographical location on earth, and thus related to the education system. Not the actual race itself.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Anarcho
Posts: 887
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3/8/2010 8:37:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 8:10:30 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/8/2010 8:04:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The first link had nothing to do with anything. The second link presupposes that race exists in the first place. It's a circular argument. I'd also question the validity of that bootleg graph.

Come to think of it, your first link proves my point, not yours. lol

Your link suggests that intelligence is related to your geographical location on earth, and thus related to the education system. Not the actual race itself.
^^^And that wins the debate.
InsertNameHere wrote: "If we evolved from apes then why are apes still around?

This is semi-serious btw. It's something that seems strange to me. You'd think that entire species would cease to exist if other ones evolved from them."

Anarcho wrote: *facepalm*
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/8/2010 8:57:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 8:10:30 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Your link suggests that intelligence is related to your geographical location on earth, and thus related to the education system. Not the actual race itself.

Or that the actual race resides on that continent?
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/8/2010 8:59:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 7:59:14 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At the base of the debate is the observation that intelligence quotient (IQ) tests have demonstrated significant differences in the average scores of different population groups, particularly US Blacks and Whites (racially self-identified for the most part).
Maybe smart people have a higher tendency to do their damnedest to "pass?"
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/8/2010 9:03:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 8:57:31 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/8/2010 8:10:30 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Your link suggests that intelligence is related to your geographical location on earth, and thus related to the education system. Not the actual race itself.

Or that the actual race resides on that continent?

No. America and Great Britain were displayed as countries with high IQs. There's black and white people in both countries. Africa had a low IQ ranking (I doubt anyone in Africa had the time to take an IQ test. No wonder it was low), yet white people also live there as well.

So again, IQ seems to be correlated with location and level of advancement rather than race. Sophisticated black people live in highly advanced societies and others live in 3rd world countries. Obviously the advanced nations will have higher IQs no matter what race.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/8/2010 9:28:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 8:07:44 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/8/2010 8:05:05 PM, Anarcho wrote:
Welcome to DDO. Terrible waste of a first post, though. Straw man.

So are you denying that black people are smarter than you?

He's saying on average, the white race has a higher intelligence quotia than the black race.

It's a fact.

white individuals and black individuals. (un?)fortunately race is not the only difference between these groups generally found- black individuals also tend to come from a lower socio-economic background, which is more than enough to account for the difference. low SES means worse nutrition and education, both of which can decrease IQ. its incorrect to assume that race is the cause of the differences found.

http://www.dartmouth.edu...

gould does a pretty good job of explaining the error of making such an assumption.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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3/8/2010 9:41:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 9:28:25 PM, belle wrote:
At 3/8/2010 8:07:44 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/8/2010 8:05:05 PM, Anarcho wrote:
Welcome to DDO. Terrible waste of a first post, though. Straw man.

So are you denying that black people are smarter than you?

He's saying on average, the white race has a higher intelligence quotia than the black race.

It's a fact.

white individuals and black individuals. (un?)fortunately race is not the only difference between these groups generally found- black individuals also tend to come from a lower socio-economic background, which is more than enough to account for the difference. low SES means worse nutrition and education, both of which can decrease IQ. its incorrect to assume that race is the cause of the differences found.

http://www.dartmouth.edu...

gould does a pretty good job of explaining the error of making such an assumption.

There's is a difference fact.

Blacks
-Faster Reaction times
-Speed
-Strength

Whites
-Probably Higher Intelligence.
-Cognitive Thinking

---I'm of "Anon" race.---
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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3/8/2010 9:51:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Biological Diff sp. byAnthropological and Genetic epidemiologic studies. Bio-Anthropoloical reasearch suggests genetic differences and not Mixes.

Whites
-Celtic
-Germania
-Slav
-Mediterranean
-Arab/Shemites

Blacks
-Nilo-Saharan
- Niger-Kordofanian (Spelling)
-Bantu
-(New World??)

Confermed by...
Department of Biology, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742, USA.
2 Departments of Genetics and Biology, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA 19104, USA.
3 Independent researcher, Sharon, CT 06069, USA.
4 Department of History, University of California, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.
5 Dipartimento di Biologia ed Evoluzione, Università di Ferrara, 44100 Ferrara, Italy.
6 UMR 208, IRD-MNHN, Musée de l'Homme, 75116 Paris, France.
7 Ministère de la Recherche Scientifique et de l'Innovation, BP 1457, Yaoundé, Cameroon.
8 Malaria Research and Training Center, University of Bamako, Bamako, Mali.
9 Department of Molecular Biology, Institute of Endemic Diseases, University of Khartoum, 15-13 Khartoum, Sudan.
10 Department of Pathology, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Stellenbosch, Tygerberg 7505, South Africa.
11 Department of Biochemistry, Muhimbili University of Health and Allied Sciences, Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.
12 Departments of Genetics and Community and Family Medicine, Dartmouth Medical School, Lebanon, NH 03756, USA.
13 Kenya Medical Research Institute, Center for Biotechnology Research and Development, 54840-00200 Nairobi, Kenya.
14 Division of Human Genetics, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Stellenbosch, Tygerberg 7505, South Africa.
15 Laboratory of Genomic Diversity, National Cancer Institute, Frederick, MD 21702, USA.
16 International Biomedical Research in Africa, Abuja, Nigeria.
17 Marshfield Clinic Research Foundation, Marshfield, WI 54449, USA.
18 Department of Molecular Physiology and Biophysics, Center for Human Genetics Research, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN 37232, USA.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/8/2010 10:04:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 7:54:56 PM, Nags wrote:
Why do races have different IQs, then?

http://www.vdare.com...
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

Why did you just presuppose that race actually exists (scientifically speaking) in order to show that there is an IQ disparity between "races"?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/8/2010 10:17:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 9:51:57 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Biological Diff sp. byAnthropological and Genetic epidemiologic studies. Bio-Anthropoloical reasearch suggests genetic differences and not Mixes.

Whites
-Celtic
-Germania
-Slav
-Mediterranean
-Arab/Shemites


Blacks
-Nilo-Saharan
- Niger-Kordofanian (Spelling)
-Bantu
-(New World??)


Confermed by...
Department of Biology, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742, USA.
2 Departments of Genetics and Biology, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA 19104, USA.
3 Independent researcher, Sharon, CT 06069, USA.
4 Department of History, University of California, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.
5 Dipartimento di Biologia ed Evoluzione, Università di Ferrara, 44100 Ferrara, Italy.
6 UMR 208, IRD-MNHN, Musée de l'Homme, 75116 Paris, France.
7 Ministère de la Recherche Scientifique et de l'Innovation, BP 1457, Yaoundé, Cameroon.
8 Malaria Research and Training Center, University of Bamako, Bamako, Mali.
9 Department of Molecular Biology, Institute of Endemic Diseases, University of Khartoum, 15-13 Khartoum, Sudan.
10 Department of Pathology, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Stellenbosch, Tygerberg 7505, South Africa.
11 Department of Biochemistry, Muhimbili University of Health and Allied Sciences, Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.
12 Departments of Genetics and Community and Family Medicine, Dartmouth Medical School, Lebanon, NH 03756, USA.
13 Kenya Medical Research Institute, Center for Biotechnology Research and Development, 54840-00200 Nairobi, Kenya.
14 Division of Human Genetics, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Stellenbosch, Tygerberg 7505, South Africa.
15 Laboratory of Genomic Diversity, National Cancer Institute, Frederick, MD 21702, USA.
16 International Biomedical Research in Africa, Abuja, Nigeria.
17 Marshfield Clinic Research Foundation, Marshfield, WI 54449, USA.
18 Department of Molecular Physiology and Biophysics, Center for Human Genetics Research, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN 37232, USA.

might be helpful if you list the actual studies not just the locations :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Zetsubou
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3/8/2010 10:27:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 10:17:48 PM, belle wrote:

might be helpful if you list the actual studies not just the locations :P

Do it then.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/8/2010 10:28:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 10:27:02 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 3/8/2010 10:17:48 PM, belle wrote:

might be helpful if you list the actual studies not just the locations :P

Do it then.

*raises eyebrow* you're the one making assertions here
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Puck
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3/9/2010 12:14:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 7:54:56 PM, Nags wrote:
Why do races have different IQs, then?

http://www.vdare.com...
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

Why do populations have different IQs? Chinese vs. American for example? Different norm tables so the results are not comparable.
mattrodstrom
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3/9/2010 5:37:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/8/2010 11:35:03 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:

Eh.. I'd say that "race" isn't so simple, or important, as is commonly assumed... but I'd say racial/ethnic groups exist.. though they might be fluid, and bleed into each other.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."