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Mind Controlled Penal Labor

Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/20/2010 9:43:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
No one should face the death penalty. Anyone deserving of the death penalty should have their free will eliminated. Since society considers them useless and disposes them with death, why not have them subjected to mind control? Now we got some free slave labor. Better to use them than to throw them away for good.

Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Capital crimes can result in the death penalty. Mind controlling prisoners should be the punishment from capital crimes instead of capital punishment. This is essentially turning humans into robots. However, since we cannot mass produce and manufacture robots, we can transform humans into them by eliminating their free will. Humans reproduce at a much faster rate than mechanic robots at this current time.

Life imprisonment should also be disregarded. If we just lock them in jail, there's a possibility that they might escape. And since people take up space, they are doing nothing useful for society. Ergo, we eradicate their memories and eliminate their free will, destroying their individualism. In this sense, we "killed" them, but their brains and bodies are still functional. They're robots now.
Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/20/2010 10:37:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
"Cruel and unusual punishment: governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity."

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Erasing all memories and applying mind control avoids any suffering or humiliation that the person might feel.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/20/2010 10:37:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The idea of using mind control makes this punishment equitable to the death penalty, with the exception that they are put to use.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/20/2010 10:45:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 10:37:44 AM, wjmelements wrote:
The idea of using mind control makes this punishment equitable to the death penalty, with the exception that they are put to use.

Do you mean "equivalent"?
Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/20/2010 11:00:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 10:05:29 AM, Koopin wrote:
You should make a debate on this.

I probably should. Right now, I'm just seeing how much I can stand from criticism. Then I'll make the debate.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/20/2010 11:05:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
None of what you linked looks like anything I'd call mind control, which is a contradiction in terms, a mind by definition thinks thoughts itself, it cannot have them directly installed externally or they are not thoughts but instincts.

Wanna wipe a prisoner's memories? Fine. But that doesn't control where the mind goes from there in a positive sense, it simply removes some potential. Inducing vomiting and nausea? Those are reflexes, not thoughts.

I highly doubt any of this is nearly sufficient to create a net productive worker-- see again, costs of housing prisoners, which are well above per capita GDP. (If they are not imprisoned but set free after wiping their memories, they will be free in a society that knows all about what sort of thing this works,and that leads naturally to indignation when they figure out what their crimes were-- rebellion-- in this case, continuing to be a criminal).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/20/2010 11:55:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 11:05:04 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
None of what you linked looks like anything I'd call mind control, which is a contradiction in terms, a mind by definition thinks thoughts itself, it cannot have them directly installed externally or they are not thoughts but instincts.

What would you call mind control then?

Mind - the aspect of the brain that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc. http://dictionary.reference.com...

Mind control is simply exerting force on the mind, which means that whatever a person reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc. is forced. For example, if you were forced beyond your control to believe or not believe in God, that would be mind control.

Wanna wipe a prisoner's memories? Fine. But that doesn't control where the mind goes from there in a positive sense, it simply removes some potential. Inducing vomiting and nausea? Those are reflexes, not thoughts.

Wiping a prisoner's memories prevents that in the event that a prisoner somehow escapes mind control, he will not automatically be able to commit crimes.

I highly doubt any of this is nearly sufficient to create a net productive worker-- see again, costs of housing prisoners, which are well above per capita GDP. (If they are not imprisoned but set free after wiping their memories, they will be free in a society that knows all about what sort of thing this works,and that leads naturally to indignation when they figure out what their crimes were-- rebellion-- in this case, continuing to be a criminal).

It's better than life imprisonment or the death penalty. Why not have a use for them instead of disposing them or just locking them up for good? At least this way, they can become more productive than non-existence and just existence in jail.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/20/2010 12:55:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 11:55:14 AM, Immortal wrote:
At 3/20/2010 11:05:04 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
None of what you linked looks like anything I'd call mind control, which is a contradiction in terms, a mind by definition thinks thoughts itself, it cannot have them directly installed externally or they are not thoughts but instincts.

What would you call mind control then?
Sufficient causation of a person having a particular thought.


Mind control is simply exerting force on the mind
Force and mind are incompatible elements. The only effect the former can have on the latter is destruction.

For example, if you were forced beyond your control to believe or not believe in God, that would be mind control.
It would also be impossible.

I highly doubt any of this is nearly sufficient to create a net productive worker-- see again, costs of housing prisoners, which are well above per capita GDP. (If they are not imprisoned but set free after wiping their memories, they will be free in a society that knows all about what sort of thing this works,and that leads naturally to indignation when they figure out what their crimes were-- rebellion-- in this case, continuing to be a criminal).

It's better than life imprisonment or the death penalty. Why not have a use for them
You obviously didn't read what you were responding to. Again, the cost of housing prisoners is well above per capita GDP. It is less destructive of value to kill them than to maintain them

instead of disposing them or just locking them up for good? At least this way, they can become more productive than non-existence
No, they can't, not on average. They are below average workers and have maintenance costs far above the market value of an average worker. Occasionally a very pretty prisoner might be a good whore, and a very strong one might be worthwhile as a gladiator, but I can't see many other professions that are even remotely achievable under the lash and remotely worth the maintenance costs.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/20/2010 2:01:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 12:55:40 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

Force and mind are incompatible elements. The only effect the former can have on the latter is destruction.

What if your memories were wiped and you were taught that God existed? In that sense, wouldn't that be "forced"?

For example, if you were forced beyond your control to believe or not believe in God, that would be mind control.
It would also be impossible.

Wiping your memories then teaching Christianity is like teaching Christianity to a child.

You obviously didn't read what you were responding to. Again, the cost of housing prisoners is well above per capita GDP. It is less destructive of value to kill them than to maintain them

Death penalty: $137 million per year.
Life imprisonment: $11.5 million per year.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

No, they can't, not on average. They are below average workers and have maintenance costs far above the market value of an average worker. Occasionally a very pretty prisoner might be a good whore, and a very strong one might be worthwhile as a gladiator, but I can't see many other professions that are even remotely achievable under the lash and remotely worth the maintenance costs.

They can work as garbage collectors, portable toilet cleaners, sewer inspectors, and coal miners.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/20/2010 6:38:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 2:01:12 PM, Immortal wrote:
At 3/20/2010 12:55:40 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

Force and mind are incompatible elements. The only effect the former can have on the latter is destruction.

What if your memories were wiped and you were taught that God existed? In that sense, wouldn't that be "forced"?
No. You would be forced not to remember why you did not believe in God. You would then be persuaded that God existed by a fallacy from tabula rasa. The force made the persuasion possible, but by no means was it a sufficient cause.


For example, if you were forced beyond your control to believe or not believe in God, that would be mind control.
It would also be impossible.

Wiping your memories then teaching Christianity is like teaching Christianity to a child.
Children can disbelieve what their elders say too, however infrequently they actually do it.


You obviously didn't read what you were responding to. Again, the cost of housing prisoners is well above per capita GDP. It is less destructive of value to kill them than to maintain them

Death penalty: $137 million per year.
Life imprisonment: $11.5 million per year.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...
Those are the costs of a fair trial in our current system. The fact that those who are instead only eligible for life imprisonment apparently do not get one is not a point in favor of life imprisonment. If, as it says, it also costs more to put people on death row while they are there, where exactly is that money going? Most prison money is for securing prisoners, which is just as necessary for prisoners who aren't going to be executed, so that's not a point in favor of life imprisonment either.


No, they can't, not on average. They are below average workers and have maintenance costs far above the market value of an average worker. Occasionally a very pretty prisoner might be a good whore, and a very strong one might be worthwhile as a gladiator, but I can't see many other professions that are even remotely achievable under the lash and remotely worth the maintenance costs.

They can work as garbage collectors, portable toilet cleaners, sewer inspectors, and coal miners.
None of which is sufficient to cover the costs of their imprisonment, which becomes much more expensive than the death penalty when you take away the distorting factors of insecure prisons and unfair trials being used to cut costs in life imprisonment cases.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.