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Will Religion Ever be Abolished?

joshpleco23
Posts: 76
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3/28/2010 5:56:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Before you read the rest of this article, I should warn any religious member that I have nothing against them... A lot of religious people I know are not big fans of my viewpoints on religion, and I don't want this discussion to become hostile.

From a logical point of view, as society progresses what do you think will happen to the more primitive beliefs? Will they turn into new age religions (Scientology being a prime example)? Or will they sink into the gravel of time, and be replaced by science? I do not care if you are religious, atheistic, or agnostic, I want to know what your opinion on the future of religion in our society is.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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3/28/2010 6:13:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
First would require the end of the need and process of having religious belief. In short, unlikely in any meaningful time frame we can discuss about and still have a reasonable grasp of what the world makeup will be.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/28/2010 6:18:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/28/2010 5:56:28 PM, joshpleco23 wrote:
Before you read the rest of this article, I should warn any religious member that I have nothing against them... A lot of religious people I know are not big fans of my viewpoints on religion, and I don't want this discussion to become hostile.

Don't worry. This is a debate site where controversial views are cherished.

From a logical point of view, as society progresses what do you think will happen to the more primitive beliefs? Will they turn into new age religions (Scientology being a prime example)?

What? Scientology is not New Age. And what do you mean by that statement? Both religions are becoming increasingly popular. Scientology generally gets laughed at, but New Age is growing quite a bit without much opposition at all.

Or will they sink into the gravel of time, and be replaced by science? I do not care if you are religious, atheistic, or agnostic, I want to know what your opinion on the future of religion in our society is.

Hopefully all religions will eventually be obsolete.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/28/2010 7:17:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
organized religion appears to be diminishing but that doesn't say much. churches like the "unitarian universalists" and other such "spiritual but not religious" practices keep popping up. if i have to make a prediction, i would guess that the claims of religious believers will becomes less and less specific/concrete and more and more metaphorical, but also that it will be a long ugly road since the natural reaction to that seems to be a splintering off of fundementalists defending their faith to the death. this is all complete bs speculation btw, but there you have it.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/29/2010 8:36:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/28/2010 7:24:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
No, religion has always been present in human civilization. It's natural that people would continue believing.

I agree.

I wonder what Geo thinks?

Maybe the beneficent foes of the 10 foot tall evil Reptilians will save our populace from clinging to such a variety of silly beliefs.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/29/2010 9:05:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/29/2010 8:36:02 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/28/2010 7:24:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
No, religion has always been present in human civilization. It's natural that people would continue believing.

I agree.

I wonder what Geo thinks?

Maybe the beneficent foes of the 10 foot tall evil Reptilians will save our populace from clinging to such a variety of silly beliefs.

lolwut? He believes religion is absurd yet he believes that?
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/29/2010 9:16:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/29/2010 9:05:22 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/29/2010 8:36:02 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/28/2010 7:24:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
No, religion has always been present in human civilization. It's natural that people would continue believing.

I agree.

I wonder what Geo thinks?

Maybe the beneficent foes of the 10 foot tall evil Reptilians will save our populace from clinging to such a variety of silly beliefs.

lolwut? He believes religion is absurd yet he believes that?

I'm pretty sure he believes in the evil Reptilians... And though I don't know if believes in their beneficent counterpart, I have to imagine that they supposedly have one; that's how all the sci fi stories go.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/29/2010 9:19:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/29/2010 9:16:01 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
that's how all the sci fi stories go.

Kinda like religion.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/29/2010 9:22:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Religion and science are not mutually exclusive concepts, the first 'science' was in fact the first religion.

As time goes on people are being taught to challenge the assumptions of former generations, and are generally becoming more cynical. The reason why so many people are abandoning the established religions is that they see and question the many myriad absurdities they throw up.

So we will see religious beliefs change, shift, liberalise and organised churches increasingly struggle to maintain numbers. But humanity still has the same needs, so I would expect to see a flourishing of very diluted christianity, paganism, scientology, bahai etc.

Religion will start to shift towards mysticism, philosophy, psycho-analysis.

I would also not be suprised if science starts to form the basis of new religious thought. The theories of the big bang are superficially indistinguiable from certain creation myths, quantum physics tells us that something can be too mutually exclusive things at once... or that the viewer shapes reality.

Religion will be with us, for good and ill, for a long time to come.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
vivalayeo
Posts: 142
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3/30/2010 8:49:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
When you can stop the indoctrination of children at a young age, then yes, it might be abolished. Where the few that do follow it will have made an adult decision, instead of following it on the basis of family pressure, tradition, fitting the norm or going along with out the slightest question.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/30/2010 11:25:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/30/2010 8:49:10 AM, vivalayeo wrote:
When you can stop the indoctrination of children at a young age, then yes, it might be abolished. Where the few that do follow it will have made an adult decision, instead of following it on the basis of family pressure, tradition, fitting the norm or going along with out the slightest question.

Well I just want to point out that I'm not religious due to indoctrination. In fact, it was the opposite. My family is generally against religion and indoctrination. I'm religious by my own choice.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/1/2010 6:37:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/30/2010 11:25:03 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/30/2010 8:49:10 AM, vivalayeo wrote:
When you can stop the indoctrination of children at a young age, then yes, it might be abolished. Where the few that do follow it will have made an adult decision, instead of following it on the basis of family pressure, tradition, fitting the norm or going along with out the slightest question.

Well I just want to point out that I'm not religious due to indoctrination. In fact, it was the opposite. My family is generally against religion and indoctrination. I'm religious by my own choice.

Oh you will grow out of it!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
collegekitchen8
Posts: 100
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4/1/2010 6:52:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 6:37:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Oh you will grow out of it!

sorta like socialism
: At 3/30/2010 12:57:51 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
: The universe is simple, It all makes sense given laws like gravity and stuff.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/1/2010 9:45:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/29/2010 9:22:59 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Religion and science are not mutually exclusive concepts, the first 'science' was in fact the first religion.

Oh? And what science and religion was that?
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/1/2010 9:46:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 9:45:38 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 3/29/2010 9:22:59 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Religion and science are not mutually exclusive concepts, the first 'science' was in fact the first religion.

Oh? And what science and religion was that?

Plus, I'd argue that they're pretty mutually exclusive, since science relies on evidence and religion relies on faith.
President of DDO
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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4/1/2010 9:48:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 9:45:38 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Oh? And what science and religion was that?

Astronomy is my guess. The study of the stars, the planets, their routes, their shapes, etc. People formed them into shapes of myths and gods, all the while studying them to learn more and more about them.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/1/2010 10:04:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 9:48:00 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 4/1/2010 9:45:38 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Oh? And what science and religion was that?

Astronomy is my guess. The study of the stars, the planets, their routes, their shapes, etc. People formed them into shapes of myths and gods, all the while studying them to learn more and more about them.

eh, thats more the both of them working in parallel and informing each other. they still had their distinct methods (observation vs faith? myth?) which, if you remember, led to a big mess when the science became advanced enough to contradict the religion :P

in any case i agree with L, i don't think they are compatible at all. 2 completely different strategies for seeking knowledge. the only way it would work is if religion contented itself to speaking only about the things science has yet to explain and furthermore was willing to cede the territory any time there was an increase in knowledge.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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4/1/2010 10:49:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 10:04:00 AM, belle wrote:

in any case i agree with L, i don't think they are compatible at all. 2 completely different strategies for seeking knowledge. the only way it would work is if religion contented itself to speaking only about the things science has yet to explain and furthermore was willing to cede the territory any time there was an increase in knowledge.

LOL, what the NOMA?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/1/2010 10:53:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 10:49:30 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/1/2010 10:04:00 AM, belle wrote:

in any case i agree with L, i don't think they are compatible at all. 2 completely different strategies for seeking knowledge. the only way it would work is if religion contented itself to speaking only about the things science has yet to explain and furthermore was willing to cede the territory any time there was an increase in knowledge.

LOL, what the NOMA?

sure why not? if religious claims are willing to color within the lines delineated by science :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/1/2010 11:23:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 6:52:17 AM, collegekitchen8 wrote:
At 4/1/2010 6:37:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Oh you will grow out of it!

sorta like socialism

Nope. Anarcho-Capitalism, or any other kind of Anarchism are childish fads that most people tend to grow out of.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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4/1/2010 11:44:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 10:53:56 AM, belle wrote:
At 4/1/2010 10:49:30 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/1/2010 10:04:00 AM, belle wrote:

in any case i agree with L, i don't think they are compatible at all. 2 completely different strategies for seeking knowledge. the only way it would work is if religion contented itself to speaking only about the things science has yet to explain and furthermore was willing to cede the territory any time there was an increase in knowledge.

LOL, what the NOMA?

sure why not? if religious claims are willing to color within the lines delineated by science :P

Science doesn't even know what lines are delineated by science. :P

It's notoriously hard to even come up with a satisfactory definition of science.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/1/2010 3:23:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 11:44:40 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Science doesn't even know what lines are delineated by science. :P

It's notoriously hard to even come up with a satisfactory definition of science.

while i agree that science, like most abstract concepts, is fuzzy around the edges, it doesn't follow that there isn't certainty in some applications. science is a method for discovering knowledge. if it has been applied to some area and found results, religious people have no business contradicting those results. or rather, they have the right to do so, but the scientific findings will trump them every time. this is because science is a systematic, reliable means of gaining knowledge, whereas spiritually gained knowledge tends to be indistinguishable from stuff that was just made up.

so sure, religion and science can be non-overlapping magesteria... if religions can learn to restrict themselves to claims that can't be contradicted by science... because scientific methods for gaining knowledge are designed to be more reliable and have proven themselves to be so over and over again.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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4/1/2010 8:57:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 3:23:17 PM, belle wrote:
At 4/1/2010 11:44:40 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Science doesn't even know what lines are delineated by science. :P

It's notoriously hard to even come up with a satisfactory definition of science.

while i agree that science, like most abstract concepts, is fuzzy around the edges, it doesn't follow that there isn't certainty in some applications. science is a method for discovering knowledge. if it has been applied to some area and found results, religious people have no business contradicting those results. or rather, they have the right to do so, but the scientific findings will trump them every time. this is because science is a systematic, reliable means of gaining knowledge, whereas spiritually gained knowledge tends to be indistinguishable from stuff that was just made up.

so sure, religion and science can be non-overlapping magesteria... if religions can learn to restrict themselves to claims that can't be contradicted by science... because scientific methods for gaining knowledge are designed to be more reliable and have proven themselves to be so over and over again.

Uh huh and which claims are you claiming that religion can make that won't be contradicted by science and *never* will be?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/1/2010 9:23:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 8:57:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Uh huh and which claims are you claiming that religion can make that won't be contradicted by science and *never* will be?

i'm not. thats my point. lol. religion keeps having to rewrite itself :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/2/2010 12:33:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 9:48:00 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 4/1/2010 9:45:38 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Oh? And what science and religion was that?

Astronomy is my guess. The study of the stars, the planets, their routes, their shapes, etc. People formed them into shapes of myths and gods, all the while studying them to learn more and more about them.

But astronomy wasn't the first religion. The first religion may have been something that took astronomy and manipulated it though lol.
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Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/2/2010 12:42:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 12:33:15 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/1/2010 9:48:00 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 4/1/2010 9:45:38 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Oh? And what science and religion was that?

Astronomy is my guess. The study of the stars, the planets, their routes, their shapes, etc. People formed them into shapes of myths and gods, all the while studying them to learn more and more about them.

But astronomy wasn't the first religion. The first religion may have been something that took astronomy and manipulated it though lol.

Maybe. Some form of animism seems like a good bet judging by cave paintings.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/2/2010 12:48:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/1/2010 9:46:13 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/1/2010 9:45:38 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 3/29/2010 9:22:59 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Religion and science are not mutually exclusive concepts, the first 'science' was in fact the first religion.

Oh? And what science and religion was that?

Plus, I'd argue that they're pretty mutually exclusive, since science relies on evidence and religion relies on faith.

Religion was our first attempt to explain the world around us, in that context it is the first 'science'.

Or proto-science if you will.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.