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Did Feminism Get it Wrong? MRA vs FEM Debate

The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

Why is that?

Well because Sage Gerard (Victor Zen) is the Collegiate Activism Director of AVFM (The Flagship of the MRA) an is also the founder of "KSU Men", the first men's rights student organization sponsored by the AVFM community on academic soil. Since then Feminist have attacked the foothold on all fronts, from attempts to suffocate sponsors and his student support through, baseless accusations, protests, and attacks on his character. And he has had to do most of this on his own, as a student.

This guy has been through a lot of stress in the last year. And I admire his courage.

It's very important that he keep his support at the Kennesaw State University. And as of late he was challenged to a "debate" recently to support his views in front of a university audience, and this is how it went down.

Thoughts??

Who won??

Against The Ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
fazz
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10/27/2014 4:22:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

https://www.youtube.com...

Thanks!

Give me an houra nd i'll vote on your poll?
fazz
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10/27/2014 4:26:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:22:44 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

https://www.youtube.com...

Thanks!

Give me an houra nd i'll vote on your poll?

Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?
fazz
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10/27/2014 5:06:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:26:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:22:44 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

https://www.youtube.com...

Thanks!

Give me an houra nd i'll vote on your poll?

Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?

Also, do you have a youtube link to the 'spying' videos he has of women in their college dorms #fun.
fazz
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10/27/2014 5:18:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 5:06:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:26:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:22:44 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

https://www.youtube.com...

Thanks!

Give me an houra nd i'll vote on your poll?

Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?

Also, do you have a youtube link to the 'spying' videos he has of women in their college dorms #fun.

HOLILOLI..

girl: What is the difference between feminism and KSU men?

guy: "your asking if we have an ideology? there isn't one"

*awkward*
fazz
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10/27/2014 5:32:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 5:18:14 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 5:06:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:26:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:22:44 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

https://www.youtube.com...

Thanks!

Give me an houra nd i'll vote on your poll?

Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?

Also, do you have a youtube link to the 'spying' videos he has of women in their college dorms #fun.

HOLILOLI..

girl: What is the difference between feminism and KSU men?

guy: "your asking if we have an ideology? there isn't one"

*awkward*

"@1:10:00 "Feminist professors attack people with BOMBS"
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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10/27/2014 6:17:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 5:18:14 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 5:06:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:26:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:22:44 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

https://www.youtube.com...

Thanks!

Fazz: Give me an houra nd i'll vote on your poll?

Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?

The Fool: Feminist =/=Woman. Do you honestly think that?

The best MRA's I know are actually Woman.


fazz: Also, do you have a youtube link to the 'spying' videos he has of women in their college dorms #fun.
HOLILOLI..

The Fool: Do you know how hard it is to be an MRA an not be accused of every evil. To not have everybody try and twist your words around, or give try to give impression that you "hate woman", or are for "Rape".

It goes with job. You have to be able to take a lot of insults, and keep on going.

Its probably hard for you to appreciate that he is openly an MRA in a environment most hostile to them. They have tried so many nasty tricks to shut him down. But he has been able to weather the storm. I swear he has literally lost his hair in less then a year.

girl: What is the difference between feminism and KSU men?

guy: "your asking if we have an ideology? there isn't one"

*awkward*

The Fool: MRA's don't have an underlying Ideology like "Feminist Theory", which underlies the assumptions and justifications of the Feminist movement.

We prefer to work with Reason, and Empirical facts, on a case to case basis, rather then appeals to emotion and wild long inference ladders of speculation.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/27/2014 6:27:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 5:32:22 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 5:18:14 PM, fazz wrote:

"@1:10:00 "Feminist professors attack people with BOMBS"

The Fool: It was an equivocation fallacy, between the expression "men's issues". Between an" issue related to men", and Men's right issues. And he came back pretty well.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/27/2014 6:32:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 6:17:44 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 10/27/2014 5:18:14 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 5:06:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:26:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:22:44 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

https://www.youtube.com...

Thanks!

Fazz: Give me an houra nd i'll vote on your poll?

Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?

The Fool: Feminist =/=Woman. Do you honestly think that?

The best MRA's I know are actually Woman.

Hmm.. such as can you name a few female MRA activists?

fazz: Also, do you have a youtube link to the 'spying' videos he has of women in their college dorms #fun.
HOLILOLI..

girl: What is the difference between feminism and KSU men?

guy: "your asking if we have an ideology? there isn't one"

*awkward*

The Fool: MRA's don't have an underlying Ideology like "Feminist Theory", which underlies the assumptions and justifications of the Feminist movement.

We prefer to work with Reason, and Empirical facts, on a case to case basis, rather then appeals to emotion and wild long inference ladders of speculation.

Ok. So if you don't have an ideology you can't be ideologically opposed to anything. So do you have books? sources? material to back up your claims?

What do men really want?
fazz
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10/27/2014 7:03:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 6:32:01 PM, fazz wrote:

What do men really want?

Hmm.. perhaps my question was confusing; dont answer to that.

Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

Example: Faz is my real name (without the second-z). Hi! Please to meet you. I have all the rights a man could ask for. What rights do I need?

Clause: For this example answer the one question. I want you to not use the word "feminism" or woman in your sentence. Not even once. If you can coherently argue for the rights of men without opposing vague ideologies I will grant you that men are indeed being denied their 'voice' in politics and society.

Thank you.
fazz
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10/27/2014 7:06:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
*maybe if this is too difficult you coud use the word Woman once or twice. Keep it to a minimum, though.
fazz
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10/27/2014 8:27:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 7:06:03 PM, fazz wrote:
*maybe if this is too difficult you coud use the word Woman once or twice. Keep it to a minimum, though.

^Consider this the anti-bechdel test for men's human rights?
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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10/28/2014 12:27:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

Why is that?

Well because Sage Gerard (Victor Zen) is the Collegiate Activism Director of AVFM (The Flagship of the MRA) an is also the founder of "KSU Men", the first men's rights student organization sponsored by the AVFM community on academic soil. Since then Feminist have attacked the foothold on all fronts, from attempts to suffocate sponsors and his student support through, baseless accusations, protests, and attacks on his character. And he has had to do most of this on his own, as a student.

This guy has been through a lot of stress in the last year. And I admire his courage.

It's very important that he keep his support at the Kennesaw State University. And as of late he was challenged to a "debate" recently to support his views in front of a university audience, and this is how it went down.

Thoughts??

Who won??

Against The Ideologist



Interesting, and it appeared that Brian at certain points, was diverting the topic of the debate and lectured on arbitrary police procedures.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/28/2014 1:06:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Some Prominent Female MRA's
"
The Fazz: Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?

The Fool: Feminist =/=Woman. Do you honestly think that?

The best MRA's I know are actually Woman.

The Fazz: : Hmm.. such as can you name a few female MRA activists?

The Fool: Some popular MRA woman.

1. Karen straughan

2. Dr. Tara Palmatier

3. Kristal Garcia

4. Alison Tieman

5. Janet Bloomfield
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/28/2014 1:09:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/28/2014 1:06:48 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Some Prominent Female MRA's
"
The Fazz: Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?

The Fool: Feminist =/=Woman. Do you honestly think that?

The best MRA's I know are actually Woman.

The Fazz: : Hmm.. such as can you name a few female MRA activists?

The Fool: Some popular MRA woman.

1. Karen straughan


2. Dr. Tara Palmatier


3. Kristal Garcia


4. Alison Tieman


5. Janet Bloomfield


Wow. That's a lot of videos (& women). Give me till tomorrw.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/28/2014 1:22:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Right Protection
The fazz : Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

The Fool: The right to get the same sentencing as a woman if you commit the same crime.

"Men to tend to get 30% to 40% percent longer sentencing for the same crime. "

It's also about Protecting rights. For example Men are slowly starting to be denied due process in regards to sexual assault, because feminist want it that woman who accuse someone of Rape to be believed by accusation alone and have the Man prove he is not Guilty instead of innocent until proven Guilty. That is a violation of Human Rights.

If there is no opposition there to say, "hey hey, wait a minute," that doesn't make sense, they will trample over our Rights.

Example: Faz is my real name (without the second-z). Hi! Please to meet you. I have all the rights a man could ask for. What rights do I need?

Clause: For this example answer the one question. I want you to not use the word "feminism" or woman in your sentence. Not even once. If you can coherently argue for the rights of men without opposing vague ideologies I will grant you that men are indeed being denied their 'voice' in politics and society.

Thank you.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/28/2014 1:42:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/28/2014 1:09:41 AM, fazz wrote:
At 10/28/2014 1:06:48 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Some Prominent Female MRA's
"
The Fazz: Wait.. why am I voting between two men? Is the second man a feminist or not?

The Fool: Feminist =/=Woman. Do you honestly think that?

The best MRA's I know are actually Woman.

The Fazz: : Hmm.. such as can you name a few female MRA activists?

The Fool: Some popular MRA woman.

1. Karen straughan

2. Dr. Tara Palmatier

3. Kristal Garcia

4. Alison Tieman

5. Janet Bloomfield

The Fazz:: Wow. That's a lot of videos (& women). Give me till tomorrw.

The Fool: You don't have to watch them. I was just giving examples of some of the Key Female Leaders of the MRA. There is lots of woman in the MRA. It's important because people listen to them.

Karen Straughan is really smart and I think my favorite. Her arguments are so deadly. Feminist HATE her and do everything they can to smear her. Its so pathetic and sad to see how manipulative dishonest feminist and the media can be. But if you actually just hear her out. It's fatal.

Against The Ideologist

This is a link to her series on Dismantling Feminism by Karen Straughan. For those who are interested in MRA video-ture
https://www.youtube.com...
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
fazz
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10/28/2014 1:56:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/28/2014 1:22:16 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Right Protection
The fazz : Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

The Fool: The right to get the same sentencing as a woman if you commit the same crime.

"Men to tend to get 30% to 40% percent longer sentencing for the same crime. "

It's also about Protecting rights. For example Men are slowly starting to be denied due process in regards to sexual assault, because feminist want it that woman who accuse someone of Rape to be believed by accusation alone and have the Man prove he is not Guilty instead of innocent until proven Guilty. That is a violation of Human Rights.

If there is no opposition there to say, "hey hey, wait a minute," that doesn't make sense, they will trample over our Rights.

Ok. This is a good start. If all men want is equality then I do not see any opposition to that. The laws here parallel goals of feminism. But I do not think it is women's role to do men's job for them. If you want their rights you have to earn it.

The Fool: You don't have to watch them. I was just giving examples of some of the Key Female Leaders of the MRA. There is lots of woman in the MRA. It's important because people listen to them.

No. I will watch the videos. I am interested in human rights.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/28/2014 1:59:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/28/2014 12:27:39 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 10/27/2014 1:54:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This debate may seem small and insignificant, but its is a big deal for MRA's influence in academia.

Why is that?

Well because Sage Gerard (Victor Zen) is the Collegiate Activism Director of AVFM (The Flagship of the MRA) an is also the founder of "KSU Men", the first men's rights student organization sponsored by the AVFM community on academic soil. Since then Feminist have attacked the foothold on all fronts, from attempts to suffocate sponsors and his student support through, baseless accusations, protests, and attacks on his character. And he has had to do most of this on his own, as a student.

This guy has been through a lot of stress in the last year. And I admire his courage.

It's very important that he keep his support at the Kennesaw State University. And as of late he was challenged to a "debate" recently to support his views in front of a university audience, and this is how it went down.

Thoughts??

Who won??

Against The Ideologist



Interesting, and it appeared that Brian at certain points, was diverting the topic of the debate and lectured on arbitrary police procedures.

The Fool: See how they tried to low ball Sage, by accusing him of making woman feel they are scared to leave there cars because he is on Campus. Oh, man its soooo pathetic.. Or that that because he made public recordings,( which he has to do to show sponsors online what he is doing), they tried to frame it in a way to make it look like he was spying and secretly recording. I am sure he gets hate male almost everyday.

Against The Ideologist.

It's not easy, going against an Ideology.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/28/2014 2:20:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Gender Right Protection
The fazz : Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

The Fool: The right to get the same sentencing as a woman if you commit the same crime.

"Men to tend to get 30% to 40% percent longer sentencing for the same crime. "

It's also about Protecting rights. For example Men are slowly starting to be denied due process in regards to sexual assault, because feminist want it that woman who accuse someone of Rape to be believed by accusation alone and have the Man prove he is not Guilty instead of innocent until proven Guilty. That is a violation of Human Rights.

If there is no opposition there to say, "hey hey, wait a minute," that doesn't make sense, they will trample over our Rights.

Ok. This is a good start. If all men want is equality then I do not see any opposition to that. The laws here parallel goals of feminism.

The Fool: That's the point is to simply work from each side at the same time. But feminist simply want to work on woman first and represent men's issues for men against their will, but only so they can slow us down, and evade legitimate criticism, and work from within Feminist Theory. That approach is ideologically based , and we don't want that garbage.

The Fazz: But I do not think it is women's role to do men's job for them. If you want their rights you have to earn it.
The Fool: Woman=/=Feminist just like MRA=/=Men

The Fool: You don't have to watch them. I was just giving examples of some of the Key Female Leaders of the MRA. There is lots of woman in the MRA. It's important because well, people listen to them.

The Fazz: No. I will watch the videos. I am interested in human rights.

The Fool: Sure
<(8P)

I will probably post them sooner or later. Depending on the argument.

Against The ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
fazz
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10/28/2014 2:29:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/28/2014 2:20:42 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Gender Right Protection
The fazz : Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

The Fool: The right to get the same sentencing as a woman if you commit the same crime.

"Men to tend to get 30% to 40% percent longer sentencing for the same crime. "

It's also about Protecting rights. For example Men are slowly starting to be denied due process in regards to sexual assault, because feminist want it that woman who accuse someone of Rape to be believed by accusation alone and have the Man prove he is not Guilty instead of innocent until proven Guilty. That is a violation of Human Rights.

If there is no opposition there to say, "hey hey, wait a minute," that doesn't make sense, they will trample over our Rights.

Ok. This is a good start. If all men want is equality then I do not see any opposition to that. The laws here parallel goals of feminism.

The Fazz: But I do not think it is women's role to do men's job for them. If you want their rights you have to earn it.
The Fool: Woman=/=Feminist just like MRA=/=Men

Yes. But a woman is a woman. If you want rights just ask for it yourself.

The Fool: That's the point is to simply work from each side at the same time. But feminist simply want to work on woman first and represent men's issues for men against their will, but only so they can slow us down, and evade legitimate criticism, and work from within Feminist Theory. That approach is ideologically based , and we don't want that garbage.

If you want rights you will have to face the law not as a man but as humans for human right. Feminisits have done their job. It is men who have to catch up. I have never seen a feminist represent men's issues. I do not think any branch of feminism has denied human rights to men. There lack of positive or negative contribution should not factor into your activism.

The Fool: You don't have to watch them. I was just giving examples of some of the Key Female Leaders of the MRA. There is lots of woman in the MRA. It's important because well, people listen to them.

The Fazz: No. I will watch the videos. I am interested in human rights.

The Fool: Sure
<(8P)

I will probably post them sooner or later. Depending on the argument.

Against The ideologist

The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/31/2014 7:42:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Gender Right Protection
Part 2

The fazz : Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

The Fool: The right to get the same sentencing as a woman if you commit the same crime.

It's also about Protecting rights. For example Men are slowly starting to be denied due process in regards to sexual assault, because feminist want it that woman who accuse someone of Rape to be believed by accusation alone and have the Man prove he is not Guilty instead of innocent until proven Guilty. That is a violation of Human Rights.

If there is no opposition there to say, "hey hey, wait a minute," that doesn't make sense, they will trample over our Rights.

Ok. This is a good start. If all men want is equality then I do not see any opposition to that. The laws here parallel goals of feminism.

The Fazz: But I do not think it is women's role to do men's job for them. If you want their rights you have to earn it.

The Fool: Woman=/=Feminist just like MRA=/=Men

The fazz : Yes. But a woman is a woman. If you want rights just ask for it yourself.

The Fool: No, it doesn't work like that? It's not a woman vs men in that way. It's about adjusting policies so one gender is not facing unfair discrimination simply for being a gender.

Same Work Same Pay And Same Crime Same Time
For example woman and men should get the same pay for the same job and quality of work. If two people are just as qualified and have the same work output in the same job they there is no reason that one should get any more money than the other.
And also in regards to the same crime, woman and men should get the same penalty for the same crime.

Right now Men to tend to get 30% to 40% percent longer sentencing for the same crime. "

You don't have to be a man or a woman, to understand what is unjust.

MRA Woman
Another way woman are great for the MRA is that as woman, they are more familiar with how woman think and feel, this also protects us from the charge that we don't know what it's like to be a woman in a society nonsense. Therefore we don't have a "say" on gender issues.

Secondly Woman are better able to recognize the indirect, passive aggressive power that woman have and use influence society at large, and call them out on it. A man's power and influence is more straight forward direct and blunt, and less evasive, while woman control people with passive aggressive emotive, strategies.

Our Interdependence
Just like a lot of Feminist are fathers with daughters, a lot of MRA's are mothers with son's, who both want a better world for their children. That's fair isn't it?

The Fool: That's the point is to simply work from each side at the same time. But feminist simply want to work on woman first and represent men's issues for men against their will, but only so they can slow us down, and evade legitimate criticism, and work from within Feminist Theory. That approach is ideologically based , and we don't want that garbage.

The fazz : If you want rights you will have to face the law not as a man but as humans for human right.

The Fool: There are men and woman in both movements so it's not being faced simply as a man or woman. Men and woman should share equal responsibility for breaking the laws, and laws should not "target" one sex rather than another.

The fazz : Feminists have done their job.

The Fool: Where would Feminism be without the men who made it possible?

Without a social system which even gave people the Right to protest at all?

A bunch of complaining woman is simply that, a bunch of complaining woman, until a man says, "Hey you know what these woman make a good point." and so then help to persuade the other men to take their issues more seriously. Therefore men were necessary to the Feminist movement, and in the very same way woman are necessary to the Men's Movement. We couldn'tdo it without them, and we love them for it. Ever since woman where invited, the MRM has taken off.

The Fazz: I have never seen a feminist represent men's issues.

The Fool: No kidding, but they are no trying too. Not to help men, but put are issues on hold, and ask men to Be Men for woman instead of themselves. And a promise

The Fazz: I do not think any branch of feminism has denied human rights to men..

The Fool: Many Radical Feminist, who are very influential on the Feminist movement, see all Male penetration as rape, and want to reduce the male population by 90%. And they want 10% of men to simply be breed for Reproduction purposes. They are the ones most motivated to fight for laws, which target men, as sexual predators and regulation sex. Also, Rights are often trampled on by indirect changes to policies. Because feminist are so concentrated on woman issues they are naturally bias against men, sometime intentional and sometimes they don't even notice it.

It's much easier for another groups to see the bias or sexist of another group then it is for one of the same group.

Woman studies which has been renamed Gender studies, just as the Feminist movement is being re-branded as Gender Neutral when it's not, is taught by feminist who tend to have the most contempt for men. And so have the most influence on how people see gender issues. Also, Gender research is mostly done by Feminist. Who take Feminist Theory as fact, and so see an interpret the world through a bias lens.

The Fazz: There lack of positive or negative contribution should not factor into your activism.
The Fool: This loaded statement. The presumption of a lack of negative contribution is False. Fazz False even.
<(8D)

Moreover. certain adjustment made to policies which may see at first to lead to equity, may indirectly cause discrimination in another aspect of life.

Against The ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
fazz
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10/31/2014 8:03:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 7:42:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Gender Right Protection
Part 2

The fazz : Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

The Fool: The right to get the same sentencing as a woman if you commit the same crime.

It's also about Protecting rights. For example Men are slowly starting to be denied due process in regards to sexual assault, because feminist want it that woman who accuse someone of Rape to be believed by accusation alone and have the Man prove he is not Guilty instead of innocent until proven Guilty. That is a violation of Human Rights.

If there is no opposition there to say, "hey hey, wait a minute," that doesn't make sense, they will trample over our Rights.

Ok. This is a good start. If all men want is equality then I do not see any opposition to that. The laws here parallel goals of feminism.

The Fazz: But I do not think it is women's role to do men's job for them. If you want their rights you have to earn it.

The Fool: Woman=/=Feminist just like MRA=/=Men

The fazz : Yes. But a woman is a woman. If you want rights just ask for it yourself.

The Fool: No, it doesn't work like that? It's not a woman vs men in that way. It's about adjusting policies so one gender is not facing unfair discrimination simply for being a gender.

Same Work Same Pay And Same Crime Same Time
For example woman and men should get the same pay for the same job and quality of work. If two people are just as qualified and have the same work output in the same job they there is no reason that one should get any more money than the other.
And also in regards to the same crime, woman and men should get the same penalty for the same crime.

Right now Men to tend to get 30% to 40% percent longer sentencing for the same crime. "

You don't have to be a man or a woman, to understand what is unjust.

MRA Woman
Another way woman are great for the MRA is that as woman, they are more familiar with how woman think and feel, this also protects us from the charge that we don't know what it's like to be a woman in a society nonsense. Therefore we don't have a "say" on gender issues.

Secondly Woman are better able to recognize the indirect, passive aggressive power that woman have and use influence society at large, and call them out on it. A man's power and influence is more straight forward direct and blunt, and less evasive, while woman control people with passive aggressive emotive, strategies.

Our Interdependence
Just like a lot of Feminist are fathers with daughters, a lot of MRA's are mothers with son's, who both want a better world for their children. That's fair isn't it?

The Fool: That's the point is to simply work from each side at the same time. But feminist simply want to work on woman first and represent men's issues for men against their will, but only so they can slow us down, and evade legitimate criticism, and work from within Feminist Theory. That approach is ideologically based , and we don't want that garbage.

The fazz : If you want rights you will have to face the law not as a man but as humans for human right.

The Fool: There are men and woman in both movements so it's not being faced simply as a man or woman. Men and woman should share equal responsibility for breaking the laws, and laws should not "target" one sex rather than another.

The fazz : Feminists have done their job.

The Fool: Where would Feminism be without the men who made it possible?

Without a social system which even gave people the Right to protest at all?

A bunch of complaining woman is simply that, a bunch of complaining woman, until a man says, "Hey you know what these woman make a good point." and so then help to persuade the other men to take their issues more seriously. Therefore men were necessary to the Feminist movement, and in the very same way woman are necessary to the Men's Movement. We couldn'tdo it without them, and we love them for it. Ever since woman where invited, the MRM has taken off.

The Fazz: I have never seen a feminist represent men's issues.

The Fool: No kidding, but they are no trying too. Not to help men, but put are issues on hold, and ask men to Be Men for woman instead of themselves. And a promise

The Fazz: I do not think any branch of feminism has denied human rights to men..

The Fool: Many Radical Feminist, who are very influential on the Feminist movement, see all Male penetration as rape, and want to reduce the male population by 90%. And they want 10% of men to simply be breed for Reproduction purposes. They are the ones most motivated to fight for laws, which target men, as sexual predators and regulation sex. Also, Rights are often trampled on by indirect changes to policies. Because feminist are so concentrated on woman issues they are naturally bias against men, sometime intentional and sometimes they don't even notice it.

It's much easier for another groups to see the bias or sexist of another group then it is for one of the same group.

Woman studies which has been renamed Gender studies, just as the Feminist movement is being re-branded as Gender Neutral when it's not, is taught by feminist who tend to have the most contempt for men. And so have the most influence on how people see gender issues. Also, Gender research is mostly done by Feminist. Who take Feminist Theory as fact, and so see an interpret the world through a bias lens.

The Fazz: There lack of positive or negative contribution should not factor into your activism.
The Fool: This loaded statement. The presumption of a lack of negative contribution is False. Fazz False even.
<(8D)

Moreover. certain adjustment made to policies which may see at first to lead to equity, may indirectly cause discrimination in another aspect of life.

Against The ideologist



Well, I have met plenty of women who study feminism. I have yet to meet this fundamentalist variety. Can you point me there --> and I will scold them for you.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/31/2014 9:17:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Fazz: Well, I have met plenty of women who study feminism. I have yet to meet this fundamentalist variety.

The Fool: If you haven't heard of Feminist Theory or know nothing about it, or haven't read any major Feminist ethical Papers, then I am afraid there is a huge education Gap here.

The Fazz: Can you point me there --> and I will scold them for you. ------------>

Against The ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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10/31/2014 9:40:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 9:29:15 PM, fazz wrote:
The Fazz: Thanks for the porn. Now can you get me to a credible source for feminism?

The Fool: Those are Feminist fundamentalist who see it as a literal war. They are in Canada now too.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
fazz
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10/31/2014 9:41:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 9:40:07 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 10/31/2014 9:29:15 PM, fazz wrote:
The Fazz: Thanks for the porn. Now can you get me to a credible source for feminism?

The Fool: Those are Feminist fundamentalist who see it as a literal war. They are in Canada now too.



Except that the one's in Canada are fat.

^see what i did there ^_^
The_Glass_Ego
Posts: 14
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10/31/2014 9:55:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/28/2014 1:22:16 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Right Protection
The fazz : Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

The Fool: The right to get the same sentencing as a woman if you commit the same crime.

"Men to tend to get 30% to 40% percent longer sentencing for the same crime. "

It's also about Protecting rights. For example Men are slowly starting to be denied due process in regards to sexual assault, because feminist want it that woman who accuse someone of Rape to be believed by accusation alone and have the Man prove he is not Guilty instead of innocent until proven Guilty. That is a violation of Human Rights.

If there is no opposition there to say, "hey hey, wait a minute," that doesn't make sense, they will trample over our Rights.


Example: Faz is my real name (without the second-z). Hi! Please to meet you. I have all the rights a man could ask for. What rights do I need?

Clause: For this example answer the one question. I want you to not use the word "feminism" or woman in your sentence. Not even once. If you can coherently argue for the rights of men without opposing vague ideologies I will grant you that men are indeed being denied their 'voice' in politics and society.

Thank you.

I hope I'm not being rude, but can you state some cases where people haven't had the chance to defend themselves in court against charges of rape? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I've never heard of this before. Thanks.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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11/1/2014 12:07:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 9:55:05 PM, The_Glass_Ego wrote:
At 10/28/2014 1:22:16 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Right Protection
The fazz : Let me put it this way: If I am a man. And I do not have rights. What right should I ask for?

The Fool: The right to get the same sentencing as a woman if you commit the same crime.

"Men to tend to get 30% to 40% percent longer sentencing for the same crime. "

It's also about Protecting rights. For example Men are slowly starting to be denied due process in regards to sexual assault, because feminist want it that woman who accuse someone of Rape to be believed by accusation alone and have the Man prove he is not Guilty instead of innocent until proven Guilty. That is a violation of Human Rights.

If there is no opposition there to say, "hey hey, wait a minute," that doesn't make sense, they will trample over our Rights.


Example: Faz is my real name (without the second-z). Hi! Please to meet you. I have all the rights a man could ask for. What rights do I need?

Clause: For this example answer the one question. I want you to not use the word "feminism" or woman in your sentence. Not even once. If you can coherently argue for the rights of men without opposing vague ideologies I will grant you that men are indeed being denied their 'voice' in politics and society.

Thank you.

I hope I'm not being rude, but can you state some cases where people haven't had the chance to defend themselves in court against charges of rape? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I've never heard of this before. Thanks.

(first Video)
The Fool: The Idea is that Feminist have pushed for courts to simply believe women's accusation of Rape without any other evidence. I this video we see feminist advocating that we just Believe Woman without evidence.

(Second Video)
These push has so far had the highest impact on university grounds were students are being treated Guilty by accusation.

There Is at-least two recent cases were men have been denied due process.

#t=179

Against The Ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Glass_Ego
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11/1/2014 12:18:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 9:40:07 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 10/31/2014 9:29:15 PM, fazz wrote:
The Fazz: Thanks for the porn. Now can you get me to a credible source for feminism?

The Fool: Those are Feminist fundamentalist who see it as a literal war. They are in Canada now too.



But these women represent feminism just as much as MRA that threaten feminists with rape and violence do; not at all! Every group has their jerks. I'm sure you've encountered some people in your religion/political party/group that you wish wouldn't make your group look hateful or stupid. And I've seen the behavior in the videos before, and I've also seen feminists getting really ticked off at these people in response.

Also, one of you mentioned that you had never heard of a feminist sticking up for men. I have a really great comic by a feminist who talks about this, but I'm having trouble linking it, so I'm going to leave this here, so I don't have to retype my nonsense again.

Also, I'm not trying to convince anyone to be a feminist, but I think it's important that groups learn to work together.