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Why I think rape is sincerely hilarious...

ESocialBookworm
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11/6/2014 11:18:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is messed up.
Discuss.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
thett3
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11/6/2014 11:24:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
He is mocking the perception that male rape is less serious than female rape and trying to show that males don't have coping mechanisms other than laughing it off. There's a well known South Park episode where one of the major characters little brother enters a sexual relationship with his Kindergarten teacher. When reported to the police, the police...well, see for yourself. Obviously it's a joke, but there is definitely a perception that it's not a big deal. After this video ends, the office asks "So wait, what's the crime?" and another answers" The crime is she's not doing it with me".
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ESocialBookworm
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11/6/2014 11:28:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 11:24:03 AM, thett3 wrote:
He is mocking the perception that male rape is less serious than female rape and trying to show that males don't have coping mechanisms other than laughing it off.
I understand that. I meant that it's messed up that when he told his 'friends' about it, they thought he was lucky.
It's sad and pathetic that because he's a male, he isn't taken seriously because he was raped. What a f*cked up world we live in.
There's a well known South Park episode where one of the major characters little brother enters a sexual relationship with his Kindergarten teacher. When reported to the police, the police...well, see for yourself. Obviously it's a joke, but there is definitely a perception that it's not a big deal. After this video ends, the office asks "So wait, what's the crime?" and another answers" The crime is she's not doing it with me".
This is frustrating and upsetting.

Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
RevNge
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11/6/2014 11:45:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 11:18:53 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
This is messed up.
Discuss.



I can't watch videos at school.

...and I find it odd that the first thing you do when you return is create a topic about rape... O_O
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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11/6/2014 11:52:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 11:18:53 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
This is messed up.
Discuss.



It honestly is. I saw this a while back when one of my friend was researching male rape, and this really does makes the point better than anything I've seen. Rape is rape, and its unwelcome and scary, for everyone. Its heartbreaking, some of the stuff that we heard. Some guys legit had long term repercussions, they couldn't like, perform, because it made them lose confidence in their masculinity and what not.

And to think that male rape isn't even recognized in like 27 countries. Including china and India and stuff.
thett3
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11/6/2014 12:18:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 11:28:33 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 11/6/2014 11:24:03 AM, thett3 wrote:
He is mocking the perception that male rape is less serious than female rape and trying to show that males don't have coping mechanisms other than laughing it off.
I understand that. I meant that it's messed up that when he told his 'friends' about it, they thought he was lucky.
It's sad and pathetic that because he's a male, he isn't taken seriously because he was raped. What a f*cked up world we live in.

Yeah... definitely. Here's the full clip btw: http://southpark.cc.com...
There's a well known South Park episode where one of the major characters little brother enters a sexual relationship with his Kindergarten teacher. When reported to the police, the police...well, see for yourself. Obviously it's a joke, but there is definitely a perception that it's not a big deal. After this video ends, the office asks "So wait, what's the crime?" and another answers" The crime is she's not doing it with me".
This is frustrating and upsetting.

DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ESocialBookworm
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11/6/2014 1:51:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 11:52:25 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 11/6/2014 11:18:53 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
This is messed up.
Discuss.



It honestly is. I saw this a while back when one of my friend was researching male rape, and this really does makes the point better than anything I've seen. Rape is rape, and its unwelcome and scary, for everyone. Its heartbreaking, some of the stuff that we heard. Some guys legit had long term repercussions, they couldn't like, perform, because it made them lose confidence in their masculinity and what not.

And to think that male rape isn't even recognized in like 27 countries. Including china and India and stuff.

No means no. And there's sufficient means of expressing a negative reaction through, even non-verbal communication. Thus, no one should rape, or be raped.

It's depressing to think rape isn't recognized in those countries. Consent is a basic human right, and no one should disgrace a person like that.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/6/2014 2:38:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 11:45:38 AM, RevNge wrote:

...and I find it odd that the first thing you do when you return is create a topic about rape... O_O

^This...rofl...It's just so "Annie" though...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,367
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11/6/2014 7:42:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
bump
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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11/7/2014 6:18:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Fakes and Phonies

Cermak: It honestly is. I saw this a while back when one of my friend was researchingmale rape, and this really does makes the point better than anything I've seen. Rape is rape, and its unwelcome and scary, for everyone.
It's heartbreaking, some of the stuff that we heard. Some guys legit had long term :repercussions, they couldn't like, perform, because it made them lose confidence in :their masculinity and what not.
And to think that male rape isn't even recognized in like 27 countries. Including china :and India and stuff.

The Fool: I fully agree with it should be taken just as seriously, legally, but I don't like the way he went about making the point. Maybe it"s the rationalist in me, but I don't like the fact that it's "acting", because it's not" genuine" or "factual" information.

I also don't like the fact it's sold as wrong by "appeal to emotion" fallacy. And I am totally against this "Rage" ethics. Where, its wrong because it "pisses you off", or because it makes you "frustrated" or that it's "Heart breaking", or because it fits with ones pre-established Ideology, and not because "it follows" that its wrong. Perhaps I am wrong, but to me it seems like none of you DDO Feminist seem to know WHY anything is wrong, but that its wrong because you FEEL like it is, or because you have been socialized/conditioned to react like it's wrong(reflexive response), or because it"s a Legal law, or because your professor said so, or because it's in a textbook. I don't think it's your fault but to someone with a good grasp of Ethics. Your sense of Morality seems sooooooooo FAKE and insincere!

You and ESocialBookworm

Against The Ideologist

Perhaps I am being a little bit of a bully, but I want you to fight back but with REASON, and over time you will become stronger.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Cermank
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11/7/2014 6:30:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/7/2014 6:18:34 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Fakes and Phonies

Cermak: It honestly is. I saw this a while back when one of my friend was researchingmale rape, and this really does makes the point better than anything I've seen. Rape is rape, and its unwelcome and scary, for everyone.
It's heartbreaking, some of the stuff that we heard. Some guys legit had long term :repercussions, they couldn't like, perform, because it made them lose confidence in :their masculinity and what not.
And to think that male rape isn't even recognized in like 27 countries. Including china :and India and stuff.

The Fool: I fully agree with it should be taken just as seriously, legally, but I don't like the way he went about making the point. Maybe it"s the rationalist in me, but I don't like the fact that it's "acting", because it's not" genuine" or "factual" information.

I also don't like the fact it's sold as wrong by "appeal to emotion" fallacy. And I am totally against this "Rage" ethics. Where, its wrong because it "pisses you off", or because it makes you "frustrated" or that it's "Heart breaking", or because it fits with ones pre-established Ideology, and not because "it follows" that its wrong. Perhaps I am wrong, but to me it seems like none of you DDO Feminist seem to know WHY anything is wrong, but that its wrong because you FEEL like it is, or because you have been socialized/conditioned to react like it's wrong(reflexive response), or because it"s a Legal law, or because your professor said so, or because it's in a textbook. I don't think it's your fault but to someone with a good grasp of Ethics. Your sense of Morality seems sooooooooo FAKE and insincere!

You and ESocialBookworm

Against The Ideologist

Perhaps I am being a little bit of a bully, but I want you to fight back but with REASON, and over time you will become stronger.



lol, even facts rely on eliciting emotional response to create awareness. X% men are raped every year. y% enter rehab. z% have long term repurcussions. What do you think is happening here? I won't discount emotions, they are the strongest tool there is to create awareness/ bring a change.

Its not wrong, and you can rest assured its not insincere. Why is rape wrong? Because its aggressive over one's person Its unwanted and harmful and violates the basic social protocol of living in a civilized society. Its wrong because its wrong.
Khaos_Mage
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11/7/2014 6:46:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The $64,000 question is: did he want it? He never said he didn't want it.

If he did, was he really raped?
Does he regret it? Yes.
Does he feel bad? Yes, but is that from the act, or everyone telling him he was a victim?
My work here is, finally, done.
Cermank
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11/7/2014 8:51:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/7/2014 6:46:35 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The $64,000 question is: did he want it? He never said he didn't want it.

That's completely not the question, the girl did not ask for his consent, nor did he even hint he wanted it before the rape. Regardless of whether he liked the sensation or not (he didn't, if the video is any indication), non consensual sex = rape.

If he did, was he really raped?

Yes.

It was rape even if he got a hard on.

Does he regret it? Yes.
Does he feel bad? Yes, but is that from the act, or everyone telling him he was a victim?
Khaos_Mage
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11/7/2014 8:55:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/7/2014 8:51:29 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 11/7/2014 6:46:35 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The $64,000 question is: did he want it? He never said he didn't want it.

That's completely not the question, the girl did not ask for his consent, nor did he even hint he wanted it before the rape. Regardless of whether he liked the sensation or not (he didn't, if the video is any indication), non consensual sex = rape.

I saw no indication in the video that consent was not asked or given. Where does he say that is what happened? He doesn't.

If he did, was he really raped?

Yes.

It was rape even if he got a hard on.
Completely misses my point.
My work here is, finally, done.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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11/7/2014 10:29:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Fakes and Phonies
Part 1
http://www.debate.org...

Part 2

Gender Gap
Cermank: lol, even facts rely on eliciting emotional response to create awareness.

The Fool: No, shlt. We couldn't reason about anything at all without emotions. You re-mind me of my ex-girlfriend, the last one. She was too young for me. And there was such a Gap in education, where she was not aware, or how relatively aware I am. It's like you have to re-explain the universe again.

My Guesstimate
You are perhaps comparing me with your peer level, and I am sure my bad writing doesn't help any. And with my opposing views, you are assuming that I am just missing information, or making typical mistakes of your peers. Right? You are perhaps not aware of how strong some of my arguments actually are, and sometimes not aware when you"ve been refuted already.
<(89)

My assumptions about you, based mostly from how you reason, is that you are above average intelligence, perhaps first year university?? Perhaps a bit too self-conscious, a little too caught up in Ideology. You're not na"ve for your age, but you very naive, to me.
<(8O)

A little confused/muttled between facts, concepts, language, objective/subjective distinctions, moral reasoning. You have the brains/ability, but you could use some conceptual tidying, in there.

Close???
<(89)

Oh yeah, and you like ice-cream.
<(8D)

The point is keep in mind that when you analyze a problem, the chances are that you are working with less variables and so perhaps not taking into account as much factors as I am, even when presented with the same information.

Foolish Psychometrics
Cermank: X% men are raped every year. y% enter rehab. z% have long term repurcussions.

The Fool: You are probably not aware of the limits of psychometric evaluation, or the controversy going in Philosophy of science on the validity of certain types of Social Science experiments. Social Science(not all but this kind) because it deals to much with social issues which have direct effect policies, and because we don't often observe things directly but make inferences about other people mind states, and can frame questions in ways to get results we want to see, and tweak definitions, to make it seem the data seem to fit, it is open to so much corruption, you don"t even know it. But that"s a whole other topic. I don't even bring that up because there is no one here to talk about Philosophy of Social Science at the level of complexity I would like to discuss it at.

Social Science and Gender Studies is flooded with Feminist who have a Religious like zeal about Feminism, that it is corrupted. These are people who are most likely to be Sexist, as you have to be really motivated to want to spend your whole life on it. When studies don't give the results they want they don't get published and so don't see the light of day. So we only get what they want us to see. I know it's frustrating but it"s the truth, and they are scared to allow MRA's in academia because they are going to blow the lid off it. That's why there is so much hostility to MRA"s in Canada. Until there is more of a balance in academia, there is a social polarization effect, which create exaggerated results and hysteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Nothing from Nothing
Cermank: What do you think is happening here?

The Fool: Nothing happened here. Thats the point. There were no actual facts given. As I said, I get the point, an agree with the point he is making, but not the WAY he was making it. Because even though it's extremely plausible and probably happens all the time, it was just an act, not a sincere fact, nor did it contain a rational argument. (a valid conclusion based of facts) He is just some actor, like Emma Watson, who is using their "acting", aka fakeness, to get message across. Acting is the opposite of sincerity.
These are Feminist approaches. Propaganda, is propaganda. Any such deceptive method is wrong, and will eventually come back to bite you in the end. The back end. Like self-harassment.

Cermank: : It's not wrong, and you can rest assured it's not insincere. (I moved this sentence from its order)

The Fool: Okay okay it's like this. It's using small but useful lies, which all have some factual error. And as they add up, the rate of error in the overall explanation multiplies until we get this completely unrealistic, web of lies, which move further away from reality over time. And so every answer to every question becomes "it's the patriarchy".

She Loves Me Not
Cermank: I won't discount emotions, they are the strongest tool there is to create awareness/ bring a change.

The Fool: No one said anything about discounting emotions, as that"s not possible. Emotions are central to any kind of motivation but there is an optimum threshold before the errors in our information processing and judgment start to increase exponentially, and not before long we are not making any sense, and can cause more damage, then good. Don't get me wrong, there is time and place for Romance. Just never with a Feminist.
<(8D)

For an angry mob is just that, a walking "bomb" of nonsense waiting to go off.
<(XO)

And that"s how Feminist theory was born.
<(XD)

It's never a good Idea to create any policy in that kind of mind state, such serious matters require sober moral judgments. Its should be no surprise that emotions are the general cause of BIAS, including hatred. For what is hatred, but conditioned anger?
<(89)

That ones on the Hill.
<(8D)

Against The Ideologist

The Black Knight: Got a little carried away did we?

The Fool: Yep.
<(8D)

(To be continued)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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11/8/2014 2:06:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Fakes and Phonies
Part 1
http://www.debate.org...
Part 2
http://www.debate.org...
Part 3

Original Version
Cermank:Why is rape wrong? Because its aggressive over one's person. Its unwanted and harmful and violates the basic social protocol of living in a civilized society. Its wrong because it's wrong.

The Fool: To be honest it sounds like you are trying to throw together a bunch of things that sound like they are wrong. By wrong I mean Morally wrong. I am going to play the devil's advocate an avoid granting you too much POC.

The Remix(from what I think is worst to best)

Cermank: Why is rape wrong?

The Fool: Enlighten me..
<(89)

1. Cermank: Its wrong because it's wrong.

The Fool: Worst. It just sounds like self-righteous indignation.

2. Cermank: Violates the basic social protocol of living in a civilized society.

The Fool: This is just another way of saying legal law. Something is not necessary Right or Wrong because its legal law. If that were true we couldn't change old laws.

Is homosexuality Morally wrong even when it's outlawed? I think not.

3. Cermank: Because its aggressive over one's person.

The Fool: It's currently obscure, and sounds like muttled conception. Either way you would have to refine what you mean by Rape, because the definition as is, is too broad, and doesn't really need to be aggressive.
<(89)

Try clarifying it more.

4. Cermank: Its unwanted

The Fool: If somebody doesn't want to live, but it's for irrational reasons, such as a temporary depression, and you can save their life, surely it's not wrong if you do save them. Right?

I know you probably know this, but is called a counter example. One way to refute an argument is to show an example where a conditional antecedent is met but the consequence is false.

In this case, [If] it is unwanted, [then] it's immoral.
Q=unwanted
P=Immoral

Q->P

So I proved Q->~P
QED

This was an example of something unwanted, but yet not morally wrong, in fact it was something which "ought" be done. In other words it was an obligation.

Another One?
I have often been tired and not been in the mood for sex. Often my girlfriend may do something to stimulate my mood,(use your imagination) even though I didn"t want to and I originally resisted a few of her attempts she may eventually get me there.

Another?
Or sometimes you may not be in the mood but you know the other persons wants to so you do it to make them happy. A pity sex favor.
<(89)

When you have been in a long relationship it's really not a big deal. Don't believe the hype.

5. Cermank: harmful

The Fool: Yes, but [If and only if] it is actually harmful in the end. Love hurt sometimes. Often a girls first time, but it heals too.
<(8O)

If you want to Rape to necessarily include harm, you may have to restrict your definition of Rape to Violent rape, and hope that it's not some crazy BDSM woman. Not even psychological damage is a necessary outcome, but it is likely, without "necessity" though you only have it "might" be harmful.

Against The Ideologist

The Black Knight: If you don't succeed, try and try again.

The Fool: Told you she wouldn't get it right. Pay up!
<(89)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Cermank
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11/8/2014 2:30:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/7/2014 10:29:23 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

The Fool: No, shlt. We couldn't reason about anything at all without emotions. You re-mind me of my ex-girlfriend, the last one. She was too young for me. And there was such a Gap in education, where she was not aware, or how relatively aware I am. It's like you have to re-explain the universe again.

such condescension. wow.

i'm hurt, fool.

My Guesstimate
You are perhaps comparing me with your peer level, and I am sure my bad writing doesn't help any. And with my opposing views, you are assuming that I am just missing information, or making typical mistakes of your peers. Right? You are perhaps not aware of how strong some of my arguments actually are, and sometimes not aware when you"ve been refuted already.
<(89)

My assumptions about you, based mostly from how you reason, is that you are above average intelligence, perhaps first year university?? Perhaps a bit too self-conscious, a little too caught up in Ideology. You're not na"ve for your age, but you very naive, to me.
<(8O)

A little confused/muttled between facts, concepts, language, objective/subjective distinctions, moral reasoning. You have the brains/ability, but you could use some conceptual tidying, in there.

Close???
<(89)

lol. All of this is too subjective to pin down. sorry.

nice effort doe. A+

Oh yeah, and you like ice-cream.
<(8D)

I do. This is true.

The point is keep in mind that when you analyze a problem, the chances are that you are working with less variables and so perhaps not taking into account as much factors as I am, even when presented with the same information.

i'll try to keep that in mind, senpai.
Foolish Psychometrics
Cermank: X% men are raped every year. y% enter rehab. z% have long term repurcussions.

The Fool: You are probably not aware of the limits of psychometric evaluation, or the controversy going in Philosophy of science on the validity of certain types of Social Science experiments. Social Science(not all but this kind) because it deals to much with social issues which have direct effect policies, and because we don't often observe things directly but make inferences about other people mind states, and can frame questions in ways to get results we want to see, and tweak definitions, to make it seem the data seem to fit, it is open to so much corruption, you don"t even know it. But that"s a whole other topic. I don't even bring that up because there is no one here to talk about Philosophy of Social Science at the level of complexity I would like to discuss it at.

god your condescension is off the chart. I'm aware of it. I am guilty of this, and i know researchers who admit to this.

this is where choosing studies comes into play. Not all studies warrant support. The 1 in 4 studies, for example, shouldn't be cited, because of the limiting population size. It did have merit though, as far as defining rape is concerned. It went beyond the 'social' definitions and challenged it.

there are myriad of other studies that can be forwarded doe, but i don know why i'm arguing here.

Social Science and Gender Studies is flooded with Feminist who have a Religious like zeal about Feminism, that it is corrupted. These are people who are most likely to be Sexist, as you have to be really motivated to want to spend your whole life on it. When studies don't give the results they want they don't get published and so don't see the light of day. So we only get what they want us to see. I know it's frustrating but it"s the truth, and they are scared to allow MRA's in academia because they are going to blow the lid off it. That's why there is so much hostility to MRA"s in Canada. Until there is more of a balance in academia, there is a social polarization effect, which create exaggerated results and hysteria.

I'm really concerned for you, fool. Being an MRA and being a feminist isn't mutually exclusive. I don't know the canada specific conspiracy theories that you're bringing up, but I am highly skeptical of it.

Anyway, I'd agree that feminism is a much more organized (although that's strictly not the word i'm looking for) than the MRM, but MRA is a response to the 'pro-feminism' social/ legal discourse today. Both of them are prone to hysteria, the feminism hysteria is much more easily accessible, unfortunately.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Nothing from Nothing
Cermank: What do you think is happening here?

The Fool: Nothing happened here. Thats the point. There were no actual facts given. As I said, I get the point, an agree with the point he is making, but not the WAY he was making it. Because even though it's extremely plausible and probably happens all the time, it was just an act, not a sincere fact, nor did it contain a rational argument. (a valid conclusion based of facts) He is just some actor, like Emma Watson, who is using their "acting", aka fakeness, to get message across. Acting is the opposite of sincerity.

There is still a lot of ignorance about male rape. People do not 1. know or 2. fully understand that men too can be raped. A pragmatic revolution (a Men's right revolution, if you will) requires a healthy dose of emotional awareness campaigns to bring the awareness.

Facts, and research and numbers are useful. They re very useful. But we need to look at the end goal here. Society is based on empathy, and that is a powerful tool in this awareness campaign. This works. You may accuse it of being fake, but that doesn't matter. It brought the issue in limelight. People are thinking about it, and even if this was false, it was an accurate representation of something that happens to thousands of other men. The feelings behind the 'acting', if you will, were true. That's what matters. It wasn't exaggerated.

These are Feminist approaches. Propaganda, is propaganda. Any such deceptive method is wrong, and will eventually come back to bite you in the end. The back end. Like self-harassment.

You fundamentally misunderstand what feminism is.
Cermank: : It's not wrong, and you can rest assured it's not insincere. (I moved this sentence from its order)

The Fool: Okay okay it's like this. It's using small but useful lies, which all have some factual error. And as they add up, the rate of error in the overall explanation multiplies until we get this completely unrealistic, web of lies, which move further away from reality over time. And so every answer to every question becomes "it's the patriarchy".

She Loves Me Not
Cermank: I won't discount emotions, they are the strongest tool there is to create awareness/ bring a change.

The Fool: No one said anything about discounting emotions, as that"s not possible. Emotions are central to any kind of motivation but there is an optimum threshold before the errors in our information processing and judgment start to increase exponentially, and not before long we are not making any sense, and can cause more damage, then good. Don't get me wrong, there is time and place for Romance. Just never with a Feminist.
<(8D)

For an angry mob is just that, a walking "bomb" of nonsense waiting to go off.
<(XO)

And that"s how Feminist theory was born.
<(XD)

It's never a good Idea to create any policy in that kind of mind state, such serious matters require sober moral judgments. Its should be no surprise that emotions are the general cause of BIAS, including hatred. For what is hatred, but conditioned anger?
<(89)

That ones on the Hill.
<(8D)

Against The Ideologist

The Black Knight: Got a little carried away did we?

The Fool: Yep.
<(8D)

lol. w/e
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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11/8/2014 4:34:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Fakes and Phonies
Part 1
http://www.debate.org...
Part 2
http://www.debate.org...
Part 3
http://www.debate.org...

Part 4
http://www.debate.org...

The Fool: I posts the 4rth part in the wrong thread..
<(8O)


"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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11/9/2014 10:32:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/8/2014 2:30:07 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 11/7/2014 10:29:23 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

Social Science and Gender Studies is flooded with Feminist who have a Religious like zeal about Feminism, that it is corrupted. These are people who are most likely to be Sexist, as you have to be really motivated to want to spend your whole life on it. When studies don't give the results they want they don't get published and so don't see the light of day. So we only get what they want us to see. I know it's frustrating but it"s the truth, and they are scared to allow MRA's in academia because they are going to blow the lid off it. That's why there is so much hostility to MRA"s in Canada. Until there is more of a balance in academia, there is a social polarization effect, which create exaggerated results and hysteria.

I'm really concerned for you, fool. Being an MRA and being a feminist isn't mutually exclusive. I don't know the canada specific conspiracy theories that you're bringing up, but I am highly skeptical of it.

Anyway, I'd agree that feminism is a much more organized (although that's strictly not the word i'm looking for) than the MRM, but MRA is a response to the 'pro-feminism' social/ legal discourse today. Both of them are prone to hysteria, the feminism hysteria is much more easily accessible, unfortunately.


http://en.wikipedia.org...

Nothing from Nothing
Cermank: What do you think is happening here?

The Fool: Nothing happened here. Thats the point. There were no actual facts given. As I said, I get the point, an agree with the point he is making, but not the WAY he was making it. Because even though it's extremely plausible and probably happens all the time, it was just an act, not a sincere fact, nor did it contain a rational argument. (a valid conclusion based of facts) He is just some actor, like Emma Watson, who is using their "acting", aka fakeness, to get message across. Acting is the opposite of sincerity.

There is still a lot of ignorance about male rape. People do not 1. know or 2. fully understand that men too can be raped. A pragmatic revolution (a Men's right revolution, if you will) requires a healthy dose of emotional awareness campaigns to bring the awareness.

Facts, and research and numbers are useful. They re very useful. But we need to look at the end goal here. Society is based on empathy, and that is a powerful tool in this awareness campaign. This works. You may accuse it of being fake, but that doesn't matter. It brought the issue in limelight. People are thinking about it, and even if this was false, it was an accurate representation of something that happens to thousands of other men. The feelings behind the 'acting', if you will, were true. That's what matters. It wasn't exaggerated.

These are Feminist approaches. Propaganda, is propaganda. Any such deceptive method is wrong, and will eventually come back to bite you in the end. The back end. Like self-harassment.

You fundamentally misunderstand what feminism is.

Hmm, what do you think about celebrity-activism. I am not in India but I get Star Plus on cable in my city. Aamir Khan has been doing some sort of Talk Show called Satmatev. I am not sure how big a movement Indian Feminism is, or if it has ties to mainstream feminism but I think some spotlight on mainstream television is hardly a bad thing. This episode in particular look at objectification & "item girls" in Bollywood dance songs. Here is the twitter campaign: http://www.tagthebird.com.... What do you think of this new celebrity-feminism? Do you think it has an impact on the larger society?

In perspective, actors in Bollywood unlike Hollywood are more than just action filmstars. They are royalty. There are two actors in the top 10 highest paid list: http://top10for.com.... But really its the cult status of filmstars which is interesting in India. I do not think the top paid actors in Hollywood have the same following as does Sharukh Khan (taking into account tickets in Hollywood cost 10x more). Maybe they did in the 80s but there aren't many actors who can pull that kind of weight anymore. So what do you think of Stars as Social Justice Warriors?

I think there are videos (w/ english subtitles) in this link: http://www.satyamevjayate.in...
Cermank
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11/9/2014 11:08:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/9/2014 10:32:00 AM, fazz wrote:
At 11/8/2014 2:30:07 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 11/7/2014 10:29:23 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:


Facts, and research and numbers are useful. They re very useful. But we need to look at the end goal here. Society is based on empathy, and that is a powerful tool in this awareness campaign. This works. You may accuse it of being fake, but that doesn't matter. It brought the issue in limelight. People are thinking about it, and even if this was false, it was an accurate representation of something that happens to thousands of other men. The feelings behind the 'acting', if you will, were true. That's what matters. It wasn't exaggerated.

These are Feminist approaches. Propaganda, is propaganda. Any such deceptive method is wrong, and will eventually come back to bite you in the end. The back end. Like self-harassment.

You fundamentally misunderstand what feminism is.

Hmm, what do you think about celebrity-activism. I am not in India but I get Star Plus on cable in my city. Aamir Khan has been doing some sort of Talk Show called Satmatev. I am not sure how big a movement Indian Feminism is, or if it has ties to mainstream feminism but I think some spotlight on mainstream television is hardly a bad thing. This episode in particular look at objectification & "item girls" in Bollywood dance songs. Here is the twitter campaign: http://www.tagthebird.com.... What do you think of this new celebrity-feminism? Do you think it has an impact on the larger society?

Damn that reminds me I'd to watch that. Satyamev Jayate, man. It's too triggering for me, I honestly cannot watch it in its entirety usually.

About item songs, eh. I don't think that item songs per say have that much of an impact on society. I think what's worse is the lyrics of the songs rather than showing midriff. Like Munni (I'm not sure if you know Hindi), but the lyrics go something suggesting that the girl has lost her honour because she wanted to please a man. THAT's demeaning and regressive. Not dancing suggestively. I honestly think the discussion in India is misplaced in that regard.

Like I watched 'Happy new year' a few weeks back and SRK and that new guy are objectified as much (if not more) as Deepika Padukone.

In perspective, actors in Bollywood unlike Hollywood are more than just action filmstars. They are royalty. There are two actors in the top 10 highest paid list: http://top10for.com.... But really its the cult status of filmstars which is interesting in India. I do not think the top paid actors in Hollywood have the same following as does Sharukh Khan (taking into account tickets in Hollywood cost 10x more). Maybe they did in the 80s but there aren't many actors who can pull that kind of weight anymore. So what do you think of Stars as Social Justice Warriors?

I think there are videos (w/ english subtitles) in this link: http://www.satyamevjayate.in...

I really don't have an opinion on it, I think its fine, i suppose.

Like I'm not sure how much of an impact they have. Salman Khan, for example, pulls as much weight, if not more, than SRK. But his old movies are so hard to watch, because of the idiotic gender roles he portrayed. I'm pretty sure that had a much more regressive impact on society than him saying he is a feminist or whatever.

It's a pretty responsible position to hold, it can either way.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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11/10/2014 3:24:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Fazz: Hmm, what do you think about celebrity-activism.

The Fool: It depends. I mean we are not selling "burgers" here. Like people should able to help raise support but just not dishonestly or with half-truths. By half-truth, I mean only given part of the facts, while omitting key information. Feminist rely heavily on half-truths, where they will say how men abuse woman, but then leave out the fact that woman do it just as often. That's called lying by omission. Or they cherry pick facts from history while leaving key information, which proves that it wasn"t as bad as they are saying. Or they will do experiments like seeing how people in public react when woman are abused, but not one to see how people react when men are abused in the same ways. So the research over all ends up being completely bias, and intentionally focused on trying to give a perception that woman are good and men are evil.

Gender research is dominated by Feminist Researcher who have strong convictions. It's not balanced researched.

It's like having Christians doing research on Atheists or Muslims, history, actions and attitudes. It's always going to seem like Atheist and Muslims are the bad guys.

What I didn't like about the video, is that it was made to be passed off as genuine. Even though it says that its "acting" in the small print, they know not everybody's going to read the small print.

If it"s a dramatization it should say, on the screen "dramatization". It's shouldn't be passed off as fact, if it's not a fact.

Just like the harassment video, It only said in "small print" that it doesn't really represent the demography because the clips were selected from a lot of filming. But most people are not even going to read that. So they are giving people a false sense of reality on purpose, and that why it's wrong. It should say on the video, so people know.

The Fazz: I am not in India but I get Star Plus on cable in my city.

Aamir Khan has been doing some sort of Talk Show called"Satmatev. I am not sure how big a movement Indian Feminism is, or if it has ties to mainstream feminism but I think some spotlight on mainstream television is hardly a bad thing.

The Fool: Well it definitely has ties, places like India and third world countries are what fuel most of the Feminist support here. If they were no such places to "Spread the word" they would have much less excuse.

The Fazz: This episode in particular look at"objectification"& "item girls" in Bollywood dance songs. Here is the twitter campaign:"http://www.tagthebird.com....... What do you think of this"new"celebrity-feminism? Do you think it has an impact on the larger society?

In perspective, actors in Bollywood unlike Hollywood are more than just action filmstars. They are royalty. There are two actors in the top 10 highest paid list:"http://top10for.com....... But really its the cult status of filmstars which is interesting in India. I do not think the top paid actors in Hollywood have the same following as does Sharukh Khan (taking into account tickets in Hollywood cost 10x more). Maybe they did in the 80s but there aren't many actors who can pull that kind of weight anymore. So what do you think of Stars as Social Justice Warriors?

The Fool: That they should be truthful. It's probably not the best Idea if people are to continue acting, because many people will start to think of them only as Activist. A lot of people who disagree may start to boycott their movies.

Against The Ideologist

I think feminism is in way, more harmful for men in India insofar as people are less educated in critical thinking, to be able to tell the bullshlt Ideology from the facts. Just browsing at some of the information in your link I could see that stereo-typical Male-behavior is evil propaganda.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL