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Pick up Artistry and Seduction education

Philocat
Posts: 728
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11/19/2014 6:43:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
With recent news stories regarding the likes of Julien Blanc being reprimanded for his violent seduction techniques, the world of PUA has come to the fore in a flurry of controversy. For anyone who is unaware of the industry or what it teaches, I suggest you take a glance at a few of the most prominent PUA websites:

www.puatraining.com
www.girlschase.com
www.realsocialdynamics.com

or for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Some argue that its pathetic to teach seduction, or that it is a danger to women.
Others insist that it is a positive tool in educating men in a social capacity.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Is it good or bad for society and those within it?
DarthVitiosus
Posts: 624
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11/19/2014 7:17:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 6:43:15 AM, Philocat wrote:
With recent news stories regarding the likes of Julien Blanc being reprimanded for his violent seduction techniques, the world of PUA has come to the fore in a flurry of controversy. For anyone who is unaware of the industry or what it teaches, I suggest you take a glance at a few of the most prominent PUA websites:

www.puatraining.com
www.girlschase.com
www.realsocialdynamics.com

or for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Some argue that its pathetic to teach seduction, or that it is a danger to women.
Others insist that it is a positive tool in educating men in a social capacity.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Is it good or bad for society and those within it?

I don't think it is pathetic when they post live videos of themselves in action. Many of them like to prove themselves it would appear. These PUAs are necessary for the social awkwardness that prevails in developed societies since most people spend more time communicating with people indrectly(Internet, texting, I.E). However,there can be negative emotional effects to women if some of these guys are trying to be manipulative.

I could care less about the goodess or badness of it honestly. Is it productive for society? Yes, men get what they want and women get what they want as a result too. Only bitter cranks want people to remain unhappy. As Mencken once put it: "Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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11/19/2014 11:47:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 6:43:15 AM, Philocat wrote:
Philocat : With recent news stories regarding the likes of Julien Blanc being reprimanded for his violent seduction techniques, the world of PUA has come to the fore in a flurry of controversy.

The Fool: What did he do that was violent?

Philocat: For anyone who is unaware of the industry or what it teaches, I suggest you take a glance at a few of the most prominent PUA websites:

The Fool:It teaches how to pick up women.. Pretty straightforward.

www.puatraining.com
www.girlschase.com
www.realsocialdynamics.com

or for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Philocat : Some argue that its pathetic to teach seduction, or that it is a danger to women.

The Fool: And why is it any more dangerous than any other form of persuasion? What are the arguments that they give?

Philocat : What are your thoughts on the issue? Is it good or bad for society and those within it?

I'm not into PUA myself, but from what I seen it's not dangerous. It's just very persuasive. From what I see it's fully consensual so I would be curious to hear any good arguments?

I think the fact that they're so successful exposes a nature about women that the feminist want to hide. It shows that woman are just as shallow and simple as men and I don't believe that fits in their narrative. Feminism, to some men, has made woman less attractive. It's generally made them seem very selfish, narcissistic and uncaring, opposite to what men generally are attracted to in women, and the marriage contract has changed to where is generally detrimental to men; so pickup artist emerged as a way to allow men to get what they want from women without having to be in a relationship. It allows them to be free and go their own way.

I believe that feminists are worried that It makes woman much less a valuable to men, so they want to force us to be in relationships with woman, or at least keep us dependent on woman.

They wouldn't give a shlt about men if it was yet a way around..

Against The Ideologist

Whatever happened to liberty?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Philocat
Posts: 728
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11/19/2014 12:14:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 11:47:36 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 11/19/2014 6:43:15 AM, Philocat wrote:
Philocat : With recent news stories regarding the likes of Julien Blanc being reprimanded for his violent seduction techniques, the world of PUA has come to the fore in a flurry of controversy.

The Fool: What did he do that was violent?

Philocat: For anyone who is unaware of the industry or what it teaches, I suggest you take a glance at a few of the most prominent PUA websites:

The Fool:It teaches how to pick up women.. Pretty straightforward.

www.puatraining.com
www.girlschase.com
www.realsocialdynamics.com

or for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Philocat : Some argue that its pathetic to teach seduction, or that it is a danger to women.

The Fool: And why is it any more dangerous than any other form of persuasion? What are the arguments that they give?

Philocat : What are your thoughts on the issue? Is it good or bad for society and those within it?

I'm not into PUA myself, but from what I seen it's not dangerous. It's just very persuasive. From what I see it's fully consensual so I would be curious to hear any good arguments?

I think the fact that they're so successful exposes a nature about women that the feminist want to hide. It shows that woman are just as shallow and simple as men and I don't believe that fits in their narrative. Feminism, to some men, has made woman less attractive. It's generally made them seem very selfish, narcissistic and uncaring, opposite to what men generally are attracted to in women, and the marriage contract has changed to where is generally detrimental to men; so pickup artist emerged as a way to allow men to get what they want from women without having to be in a relationship. It allows them to be free and go their own way.

I believe that feminists are worried that It makes woman much less a valuable to men, so they want to force us to be in relationships with woman, or at least keep us dependent on woman.

They wouldn't give a shlt about men if it was yet a way around..

Against The Ideologist

Whatever happened to liberty?



I agree with you, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with PUA. The reason it is portrayed as bad is because women are naturally more socially intelligent than men. Therefore they often have the upper-hand in relationships and the courting process. They have a lot of power over men because the average woman has around 2-3 suitors, whereas a man's possibilities are limited to 1 or 2 women who are interested in them.

Feminists dislike PUA because it teaches men how to be socially intelligent and this removes the female advantage in the dating game.

Arguments I have heard go along the lines of:

"It's men tricking and manipulating women into having sex with them'

Yet this logic would apply to any form of persuasion, it's like saying it's wrong to learn sales because it is manipulating people into buying your product. It is very easy to call a form of persuasion 'manipulation' to make it look immoral.

"It's weird! Real men know this stuff naturally"

Yet it's perfectly okay for women to be constantly fed dating advice in magazines such as Cosmo or OK.

In response to your question about Julien Blanc, he suggested that a technique would be to grab a girls throat and put it in your crotch. I dislike such techniques, but fortunately they are not representative of most PUA stuff.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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11/19/2014 10:56:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 6:43:15 AM, Philocat wrote:
With recent news stories regarding the likes of Julien Blanc being reprimanded for his violent seduction techniques, the world of PUA has come to the fore in a flurry of controversy. For anyone who is unaware of the industry or what it teaches, I suggest you take a glance at a few of the most prominent PUA websites:

www.puatraining.com
www.girlschase.com
www.realsocialdynamics.com

or for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Some argue that its pathetic to teach seduction, or that it is a danger to women.
Others insist that it is a positive tool in educating men in a social capacity.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Is it good or bad for society and those within it?

Seduction, in regards to PUA, involves two parties, hence accountability is crucial and one party is not exempt from being responsible because they were manipulated. Violent manipulation is unwelcome, albeit becoming emotionally manipulated or trusting an individual non-tentatively is the reason PUA are able to attain affection from women. Those who claim PUA are manipulative are correct, however those same individuals need to recognize the concept of accountability and understand the individual allowed themselves to become manipulated.

PUA(s) do advocate social competence with a focus specifically in obtaining affection from women, hence the acronym, pick up artists (PUA). I agree with the notion of social competence as it aids in benefiting both men and women. An abundance, if not all of, PUA philosophies involve the idea of appealing to women regarding numerous aspects such as; emotionally, physically, and sexually. PUA(s) intend to enhance communication abilities, which is binary, hence the ability to speak and present yourself, and the ability to recognize another individuals intent from speech, body language etc...

Would I consider PUA advantageous for society? I'm not sure, but I do agree that enhancing social competence and molding an individual into a socially adept individual is a remarkable concept.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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11/19/2014 11:51:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:56:21 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 11/19/2014 6:43:15 AM, Philocat wrote:
With recent news stories regarding the likes of Julien Blanc being reprimanded for his violent seduction techniques, the world of PUA has come to the fore in a flurry of controversy. For anyone who is unaware of the industry or what it teaches, I suggest you take a glance at a few of the most prominent PUA websites:

www.puatraining.com
www.girlschase.com
www.realsocialdynamics.com

or for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Some argue that its pathetic to teach seduction, or that it is a danger to women.
Others insist that it is a positive tool in educating men in a social capacity.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Is it good or bad for society and those within it?

Seduction, in regards to PUA, involves two parties, hence accountability is crucial and one party is not exempt from being responsible because they were manipulated. Violent manipulation is unwelcome, albeit becoming emotionally manipulated or trusting an individual non-tentatively is the reason PUA are able to attain affection from women. Those who claim PUA are manipulative are correct, however those same individuals need to recognize the concept of accountability and understand the individual allowed themselves to become manipulated.

PUA(s) do advocate social competence with a focus specifically in obtaining affection from women, hence the acronym, pick up artists (PUA). I agree with the notion of social competence as it aids in benefiting both men and women. An abundance, if not all of, PUA philosophies involve the idea of appealing to women regarding numerous aspects such as; emotionally, physically, and sexually. PUA(s) intend to enhance communication abilities, which is binary, hence the ability to speak and present yourself, and the ability to recognize another individuals intent from speech, body language etc...

Would I consider PUA advantageous for society? I'm not sure, but I do agree that enhancing social competence and molding an individual into a socially adept individual is a remarkable concept.

True, but being able to tell the same joke over and over again does not make you a comedian any more than what makes a 'pick up artist' a pick up artist. That isn't social competence, or even being socially adept, its working an agenda. This variety of 'social aid' is better applied for a used car salesman. The only real question at the end of such an interaction is how dissappointed the buyer is when its over.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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11/20/2014 12:13:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 11:51:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:56:21 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 11/19/2014 6:43:15 AM, Philocat wrote:
With recent news stories regarding the likes of Julien Blanc being reprimanded for his violent seduction techniques, the world of PUA has come to the fore in a flurry of controversy. For anyone who is unaware of the industry or what it teaches, I suggest you take a glance at a few of the most prominent PUA websites:

www.puatraining.com
www.girlschase.com
www.realsocialdynamics.com

or for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Some argue that its pathetic to teach seduction, or that it is a danger to women.
Others insist that it is a positive tool in educating men in a social capacity.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Is it good or bad for society and those within it?

Seduction, in regards to PUA, involves two parties, hence accountability is crucial and one party is not exempt from being responsible because they were manipulated. Violent manipulation is unwelcome, albeit becoming emotionally manipulated or trusting an individual non-tentatively is the reason PUA are able to attain affection from women. Those who claim PUA are manipulative are correct, however those same individuals need to recognize the concept of accountability and understand the individual allowed themselves to become manipulated.

PUA(s) do advocate social competence with a focus specifically in obtaining affection from women, hence the acronym, pick up artists (PUA). I agree with the notion of social competence as it aids in benefiting both men and women. An abundance, if not all of, PUA philosophies involve the idea of appealing to women regarding numerous aspects such as; emotionally, physically, and sexually. PUA(s) intend to enhance communication abilities, which is binary, hence the ability to speak and present yourself, and the ability to recognize another individuals intent from speech, body language etc...

Would I consider PUA advantageous for society? I'm not sure, but I do agree that enhancing social competence and molding an individual into a socially adept individual is a remarkable concept.

True, but being able to tell the same joke over and over again does not make you a comedian any more than what makes a 'pick up artist' a pick up artist. That isn't social competence, or even being socially adept, its working an agenda. This variety of 'social aid' is better applied for a used car salesman. The only real question at the end of such an interaction is how dissappointed the buyer is when its over.

You have stated a validity. I agree that PUA(s) do promote an agenda, however regardless of the intent, certain philosophies of PUA(s) do promote certain attributes that are tantamount to being socially adequate. You have indeed stated a good point though.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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11/20/2014 12:16:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 12:13:56 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 11/19/2014 11:51:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:56:21 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 11/19/2014 6:43:15 AM, Philocat wrote:
With recent news stories regarding the likes of Julien Blanc being reprimanded for his violent seduction techniques, the world of PUA has come to the fore in a flurry of controversy. For anyone who is unaware of the industry or what it teaches, I suggest you take a glance at a few of the most prominent PUA websites:

www.puatraining.com
www.girlschase.com
www.realsocialdynamics.com

or for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Some argue that its pathetic to teach seduction, or that it is a danger to women.
Others insist that it is a positive tool in educating men in a social capacity.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Is it good or bad for society and those within it?

Seduction, in regards to PUA, involves two parties, hence accountability is crucial and one party is not exempt from being responsible because they were manipulated. Violent manipulation is unwelcome, albeit becoming emotionally manipulated or trusting an individual non-tentatively is the reason PUA are able to attain affection from women. Those who claim PUA are manipulative are correct, however those same individuals need to recognize the concept of accountability and understand the individual allowed themselves to become manipulated.

PUA(s) do advocate social competence with a focus specifically in obtaining affection from women, hence the acronym, pick up artists (PUA). I agree with the notion of social competence as it aids in benefiting both men and women. An abundance, if not all of, PUA philosophies involve the idea of appealing to women regarding numerous aspects such as; emotionally, physically, and sexually. PUA(s) intend to enhance communication abilities, which is binary, hence the ability to speak and present yourself, and the ability to recognize another individuals intent from speech, body language etc...

Would I consider PUA advantageous for society? I'm not sure, but I do agree that enhancing social competence and molding an individual into a socially adept individual is a remarkable concept.

True, but being able to tell the same joke over and over again does not make you a comedian any more than what makes a 'pick up artist' a pick up artist. That isn't social competence, or even being socially adept, its working an agenda. This variety of 'social aid' is better applied for a used car salesman. The only real question at the end of such an interaction is how dissappointed the buyer is when its over.

You have stated a validity. I agree that PUA(s) do promote an agenda, however regardless of the intent, certain philosophies of PUA(s) do promote certain attributes that are tantamount to being socially adequate. You have indeed stated a good point though.

I should have stated instead, "assisting in the development of becoming socially adequate", rather than equivalent to.