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wolfgangxx
Posts: 85
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5/11/2010 3:56:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
For a period last year, after a school trip to amsterdam, I smoked cannibis everyday for almost a month. During that month I noticed I was always needing to get things explained to me in class whereas usually i was the one explaining things to others; my speech became littered with gaps and pauses where my mind suddenly goes blank, even in just everyday conversation; stuff that I used to understand I began to find difficult; then I began having panic attacks in the middle of lessons and just started shouting at people and punching and kicking any inanimate object near me. Luckily my store of cannabis eventually ran out and i was forced to stop.

I'm curious as to whether this was just me having a very bad reaction to the cannabis or whether this is something many people have encountered.
Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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5/11/2010 8:56:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
hmmm. i used to get panic attacks on weed for sure. i had to quit smoking because of it. never kicked or punched anything though. also it made me seriously dumb sometimes... i remember once this guy was trying to ask me out and i just didn't get it at all because i was so high... i felt really bad afterwards because he is a really shy dude... it probably took a lot for him to do that... and then onetime i was sitting in a corner paranoid as hell because i thought was throwing up into my own mouth and was gonna choke (i wasn't >.<). so... yes. if you smoke a lot you sometimes get weird effects....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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5/11/2010 11:28:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
the few times I've smoked...

I got either full out uncontrollable laughter at everything...

or complete paranoia.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/11/2010 1:13:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I knew a few people in high school who got into pot and their whole lives just sort of stalled. No ambition at all, and no real desire for a future, and just settled for very little in life. One guy lived in his parent's basement for a long time, no idea where he is today. I know most just stopped and pulled themselves together so they could get on with life.

I hated pot, it made me paranoid.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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5/11/2010 1:25:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
i've gotten to a stage where i enjoy the panic attacks. heart attacks are what i freak out about. i had one where i thought something like the thing the agents put into neo was after getting into me and i was on the verge of phoning an ambulance. that one was fairly crazy. i've never freaked out in anyones presence though (not off weed anyway). i love the way the happen though. it's your own brain working against you. for example i started getting the ones about having heart attacks a few nights after i'd done a cpr course with work. i honestly think weed has made me smarter too. it's turned the internet into one of my best friends and i'd never have thought of reading a book before i started. i love weed.
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/11/2010 1:28:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:25:14 PM, badger wrote:
i've gotten to a stage where i enjoy the panic attacks. heart attacks are what i freak out about. i had one where i thought something like the thing the agents put into neo was after getting into me and i was on the verge of phoning an ambulance. that one was fairly crazy. i've never freaked out in anyones presence though (not off weed anyway). i love the way the happen though. it's your own brain working against you. for example i started getting the ones about having heart attacks a few nights after i'd done a cpr course with work. i honestly think weed has made me smarter too. it's turned the internet into one of my best friends and i'd never have thought of reading a book before i started. i love weed.

Good luck with that.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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5/11/2010 1:34:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:28:12 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:25:14 PM, badger wrote:
i've gotten to a stage where i enjoy the panic attacks. heart attacks are what i freak out about. i had one where i thought something like the thing the agents put into neo was after getting into me and i was on the verge of phoning an ambulance. that one was fairly crazy. i've never freaked out in anyones presence though (not off weed anyway). i love the way the happen though. it's your own brain working against you. for example i started getting the ones about having heart attacks a few nights after i'd done a cpr course with work. i honestly think weed has made me smarter too. it's turned the internet into one of my best friends and i'd never have thought of reading a book before i started. i love weed.

Good luck with that.

good luck with what?
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kelly224
Posts: 952
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5/11/2010 1:35:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 3:56:08 AM, wolfgangxx wrote:
For a period last year, after a school trip to amsterdam, I smoked cannibis everyday for almost a month. During that month I noticed I was always needing to get things explained to me in class whereas usually i was the one explaining things to others; my speech became littered with gaps and pauses where my mind suddenly goes blank, even in just everyday conversation; stuff that I used to understand I began to find difficult; then I began having panic attacks in the middle of lessons and just started shouting at people and punching and kicking any inanimate object near me. Luckily my store of cannabis eventually ran out and i was forced to stop.

I'm curious as to whether this was just me having a very bad reaction to the cannabis or whether this is something many people have encountered.

There is paranoia, you DO forget alot of things, and often your reaction time is way off. There are a host of other side effects. I just stopped after smoking for like 15 years. The last 6 or seven I have been smoking everyday. I am glad that I have stopped. It's only been a month, but I don't plan on going back. It started out as fun, but it turned into an uncontrollable coping mechanism.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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5/11/2010 1:42:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:35:17 PM, kelly224 wrote:
At 5/11/2010 3:56:08 AM, wolfgangxx wrote:
For a period last year, after a school trip to amsterdam, I smoked cannibis everyday for almost a month. During that month I noticed I was always needing to get things explained to me in class whereas usually i was the one explaining things to others; my speech became littered with gaps and pauses where my mind suddenly goes blank, even in just everyday conversation; stuff that I used to understand I began to find difficult; then I began having panic attacks in the middle of lessons and just started shouting at people and punching and kicking any inanimate object near me. Luckily my store of cannabis eventually ran out and i was forced to stop.

I'm curious as to whether this was just me having a very bad reaction to the cannabis or whether this is something many people have encountered.

There is paranoia, you DO forget alot of things, and often your reaction time is way off. There are a host of other side effects. I just stopped after smoking for like 15 years. The last 6 or seven I have been smoking everyday. I am glad that I have stopped. It's only been a month, but I don't plan on going back. It started out as fun, but it turned into an uncontrollable coping mechanism.

you only forget things you do stoned. just don't get stoned in class. i've been smoking hard with about 4 years and i might end up taking it a bit easier in the future but i'm never gonna stop.
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:34:19 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:28:12 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:25:14 PM, badger wrote:
i've gotten to a stage where i enjoy the panic attacks. heart attacks are what i freak out about. i had one where i thought something like the thing the agents put into neo was after getting into me and i was on the verge of phoning an ambulance. that one was fairly crazy. i've never freaked out in anyones presence though (not off weed anyway). i love the way the happen though. it's your own brain working against you. for example i started getting the ones about having heart attacks a few nights after i'd done a cpr course with work. i honestly think weed has made me smarter too. it's turned the internet into one of my best friends and i'd never have thought of reading a book before i started. i love weed.

Good luck with that.

good luck with what?

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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5/11/2010 1:50:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:34:19 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:28:12 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:25:14 PM, badger wrote:
i've gotten to a stage where i enjoy the panic attacks. heart attacks are what i freak out about. i had one where i thought something like the thing the agents put into neo was after getting into me and i was on the verge of phoning an ambulance. that one was fairly crazy. i've never freaked out in anyones presence though (not off weed anyway). i love the way the happen though. it's your own brain working against you. for example i started getting the ones about having heart attacks a few nights after i'd done a cpr course with work. i honestly think weed has made me smarter too. it's turned the internet into one of my best friends and i'd never have thought of reading a book before i started. i love weed.

Good luck with that.

good luck with what?

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.

it doesn't affect me like that. i'm "impaired" right now and i'm still functioning optimally, and it actually makes me better at computer games.
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xxdarkxx
Posts: 3,090
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5/11/2010 1:59:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:50:38 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:34:19 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:28:12 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:25:14 PM, badger wrote:
i've gotten to a stage where i enjoy the panic attacks. heart attacks are what i freak out about. i had one where i thought something like the thing the agents put into neo was after getting into me and i was on the verge of phoning an ambulance. that one was fairly crazy. i've never freaked out in anyones presence though (not off weed anyway). i love the way the happen though. it's your own brain working against you. for example i started getting the ones about having heart attacks a few nights after i'd done a cpr course with work. i honestly think weed has made me smarter too. it's turned the internet into one of my best friends and i'd never have thought of reading a book before i started. i love weed.

Good luck with that.

good luck with what?

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.

it doesn't affect me like that. i'm "impaired" right now and i'm still functioning optimally, and it actually makes me better at computer games.

He's right in a sense, i know a person who plays video games relentlessly... he's trying to get to the pro circuit in mlg. Except he take adderall (adhd med). He's in the Halo circut and i've seen videos with him on it and videos with him off it, and it makes a large difference. Your far, far more reactive.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/11/2010 2:00:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:50:38 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:34:19 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:28:12 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:25:14 PM, badger wrote:
i've gotten to a stage where i enjoy the panic attacks. heart attacks are what i freak out about. i had one where i thought something like the thing the agents put into neo was after getting into me and i was on the verge of phoning an ambulance. that one was fairly crazy. i've never freaked out in anyones presence though (not off weed anyway). i love the way the happen though. it's your own brain working against you. for example i started getting the ones about having heart attacks a few nights after i'd done a cpr course with work. i honestly think weed has made me smarter too. it's turned the internet into one of my best friends and i'd never have thought of reading a book before i started. i love weed.

Good luck with that.

good luck with what?

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.

it doesn't affect me like that. i'm "impaired" right now and i'm still functioning optimally, and it actually makes me better at computer games.

Yeah right. I think i remember you posting something about having difficulty in school, and concentrating et al. I never knew anyone that was even a moderate achiever who did pot regularly.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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5/11/2010 2:01:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:50:38 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM, innomen wrote:

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.

it doesn't affect me like that. i'm "impaired" right now and i'm still functioning optimally, and it actually makes me better at computer games.

You'll have to ask Kleptin about the exact details, but thing is Weed slows down your ability for brain cells to essentially talk to one each other, which leads to overall slower reactions, and whatnot.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/11/2010 2:09:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 2:01:19 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:50:38 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM, innomen wrote:

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.

it doesn't affect me like that. i'm "impaired" right now and i'm still functioning optimally, and it actually makes me better at computer games.

You'll have to ask Kleptin about the exact details, but thing is Weed slows down your ability for brain cells to essentially talk to one each other, which leads to overall slower reactions, and whatnot.

Pot heads have that vacant look to them even when they stop. Over the years they just get that mellow always way about them, you know the type their in bus stations and subway stations all over the world.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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5/11/2010 2:27:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 2:01:19 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:50:38 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM, innomen wrote:

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.

it doesn't affect me like that. i'm "impaired" right now and i'm still functioning optimally, and it actually makes me better at computer games.

You'll have to ask Kleptin about the exact details, but thing is Weed slows down your ability for brain cells to essentially talk to one each other, which leads to overall slower reactions, and whatnot.

don't tell me that sort of thing.
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Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/11/2010 3:46:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 2:27:21 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 2:01:19 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:50:38 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM, innomen wrote:

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.

it doesn't affect me like that. i'm "impaired" right now and i'm still functioning optimally, and it actually makes me better at computer games.

You'll have to ask Kleptin about the exact details, but thing is Weed slows down your ability for brain cells to essentially talk to one each other, which leads to overall slower reactions, and whatnot.

don't tell me that sort of thing.

There are a couple hundred compounds in marijuana that have negative effects on the human brain. The main ingredient does some pretty funny things. There are receptors in the brain that are actually called "cannabinoid receptors" because it was discovered that cannabis affects them. The triggering of these receptors tends to screw with your natural brain chemistry. There are different effects throughout your brain but the general thing that sort of happens is...something like stress recovery. What they do is they decrease receptor sensitivity of neurons so that you aren't habitually hyped up and scared of EVERYTHING.

The problem is when you give yourself a dose of the stuff that doesn't belong. What does this mean? Imagine the impact that your fingers have on the keyboard. For every stroke, a letter appears. Now, imagine what would happen if the keys actually started to get sticky. You're hitting the keys at the same rate, but the letters aren't showing up on the screen because the keys take time to unstick so they can be hit again.

That's what happens with weed. Your nerve cells fire and hit the next nerve cell in the chain. The problem is that the receptors are negatively impacted by the compounds in marijuana. This explains the slow reaction time, loss of short term memory, inability to focus, etc. You basically abuse your body's natural system of "I'm tired, I just got chased by a bear, time to relax".

It also explains cool stuff like why people get the munchies. After a stressful situation, you want to eat, sleep, relax, and just forget about the stressful thing for a bit, right? That's exactly what weed does, only to a much greater extent. And after a while, the effects can take place even if you're NOT on weed.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/11/2010 3:50:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 3:56:08 AM, wolfgangxx wrote:

I'm curious as to whether this was just me having a very bad reaction to the cannabis or whether this is something many people have encountered.

It sounds like you have a particular sensitivity to it, it's probably best not to touch the stuff in future.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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5/11/2010 3:51:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 3:46:01 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 5/11/2010 2:27:21 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 2:01:19 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:50:38 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:45:14 PM, innomen wrote:

Good luck with managing your life being impaired a good portion of the time.

it doesn't affect me like that. i'm "impaired" right now and i'm still functioning optimally, and it actually makes me better at computer games.

You'll have to ask Kleptin about the exact details, but thing is Weed slows down your ability for brain cells to essentially talk to one each other, which leads to overall slower reactions, and whatnot.

don't tell me that sort of thing.

There are a couple hundred compounds in marijuana that have negative effects on the human brain. The main ingredient does some pretty funny things. There are receptors in the brain that are actually called "cannabinoid receptors" because it was discovered that cannabis affects them. The triggering of these receptors tends to screw with your natural brain chemistry. There are different effects throughout your brain but the general thing that sort of happens is...something like stress recovery. What they do is they decrease receptor sensitivity of neurons so that you aren't habitually hyped up and scared of EVERYTHING.

The problem is when you give yourself a dose of the stuff that doesn't belong. What does this mean? Imagine the impact that your fingers have on the keyboard. For every stroke, a letter appears. Now, imagine what would happen if the keys actually started to get sticky. You're hitting the keys at the same rate, but the letters aren't showing up on the screen because the keys take time to unstick so they can be hit again.

That's what happens with weed. Your nerve cells fire and hit the next nerve cell in the chain. The problem is that the receptors are negatively impacted by the compounds in marijuana. This explains the slow reaction time, loss of short term memory, inability to focus, etc. You basically abuse your body's natural system of "I'm tired, I just got chased by a bear, time to relax".

It also explains cool stuff like why people get the munchies. After a stressful situation, you want to eat, sleep, relax, and just forget about the stressful thing for a bit, right? That's exactly what weed does, only to a much greater extent. And after a while, the effects can take place even if you're NOT on weed.

cheers for not making it too scary. i don't get the munchies though so i'm probably immune to all the bad stuff. shhh say nothing... i really don't get the munchies though, and i am definitely better at call of duty when i'm stoned.
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Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/11/2010 9:07:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 3:51:08 PM, badger wrote:
i don't get the munchies though so i'm probably immune to all the bad stuff.

Can't say nothing. It just means that that specific part of the brain isn't affected. The rest of your brain most definitely is. Why?

i am definitely better at call of duty when i'm stoned.

Because of this. Most likely, the weed relaxes you, keeps you from getting as anxious or stressed, allows you to play easier. The same thing that helps you do this, kills your memory and responsiveness in the long run.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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5/11/2010 9:38:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 3:51:08 PM, badger wrote:
cheers for not making it too scary. i don't get the munchies though so i'm probably immune to all the bad stuff. shhh say nothing... i really don't get the munchies though, and i am definitely better at call of duty when i'm stoned.

What a great skill to have.. u must be so proud XD

...don't mind me, I've been drinking for the last couple hours.
wolfgangxx
Posts: 85
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5/12/2010 2:27:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:59:10 PM, xxdarkxx wrote:
He's right in a sense, i know a person who plays video games relentlessly... he's trying to get to the pro circuit in mlg. Except he take adderall (adhd med). He's in the Halo circut and i've seen videos with him on it and videos with him off it, and it makes a large difference. Your far, far more reactive.

ADHD meds such as ritalin and modafonil have been shown to improve cognition even in non-sufferes. For this reason I tried to convince my GP that I had ADD but he thought I was wanting the pills to get high and didn't diagnose me with it ¬¬
Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace.
kelly224
Posts: 952
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5/12/2010 9:52:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/11/2010 1:42:32 PM, badger wrote:
At 5/11/2010 1:35:17 PM, kelly224 wrote:
At 5/11/2010 3:56:08 AM, wolfgangxx wrote:
For a period last year, after a school trip to amsterdam, I smoked cannibis everyday for almost a month. During that month I noticed I was always needing to get things explained to me in class whereas usually i was the one explaining things to others; my speech became littered with gaps and pauses where my mind suddenly goes blank, even in just everyday conversation; stuff that I used to understand I began to find difficult; then I began having panic attacks in the middle of lessons and just started shouting at people and punching and kicking any inanimate object near me. Luckily my store of cannabis eventually ran out and i was forced to stop.

I'm curious as to whether this was just me having a very bad reaction to the cannabis or whether this is something many people have encountered.

There is paranoia, you DO forget alot of things, and often your reaction time is way off. There are a host of other side effects. I just stopped after smoking for like 15 years. The last 6 or seven I have been smoking everyday. I am glad that I have stopped. It's only been a month, but I don't plan on going back. It started out as fun, but it turned into an uncontrollable coping mechanism.

you only forget things you do stoned. just don't get stoned in class. i've been smoking hard with about 4 years and i might end up taking it a bit easier in the future but i'm never gonna stop.

More power to you, buyt it makes you extremely lazy.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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5/12/2010 9:59:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Not necessarily, Kelly. I know several fully functioning and motivated regular users. I also know way more who are lazy, though. It makes it more likely for the user to become lazy, but it is not inevitable.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/12/2010 10:15:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 2:27:22 AM, wolfgangxx wrote:
ADHD meds such as ritalin and modafonil have been shown to improve cognition even in non-sufferes. For this reason I tried to convince my GP that I had ADD but he thought I was wanting the pills to get high and didn't diagnose me with it ¬¬

Doctors are unwilling to prescribe for a lot of kids because stimulants are widely abused, especially as study aids. However, I think that the doctor withheld his diagnosis for other reasons. Even if he didn't want you to abuse the drug, he could have given you Atomoxetine, which has a MUCH lower chance of abuse by non-sufferers.

Modafinil is questionable. Studies have shown that it really isn't that efficacious compared to placebo. I doubt how much they would improve cognition in normal people.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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5/12/2010 10:56:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've used it quite heavily almost every day for about 16 years.

I am a bit lazy but I don't suffer from paranoia and I think I'm still pretty quick-witted and generally together. Every one is different and I certainly don't recommend it as a healthy lifestyle choice for all but on balance, I honestly think I get mostly positive effects from it. Unless I'm deluded of course :)
wolfgangxx
Posts: 85
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5/12/2010 11:29:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 10:15:46 AM, Kleptin wrote:
At 5/12/2010 2:27:22 AM, wolfgangxx wrote:
ADHD meds such as ritalin and modafonil have been shown to improve cognition even in non-sufferes. For this reason I tried to convince my GP that I had ADD but he thought I was wanting the pills to get high and didn't diagnose me with it ¬¬

Doctors are unwilling to prescribe for a lot of kids because stimulants are widely abused, especially as study aids. However, I think that the doctor withheld his diagnosis for other reasons. Even if he didn't want you to abuse the drug, he could have given you Atomoxetine, which has a MUCH lower chance of abuse by non-sufferers.

thanks, next GP i try i'll ask for the Atomoxetine =]
and maybe i'll take a few acting classes as well....

Modafinil is questionable. Studies have shown that it really isn't that efficacious compared to placebo. I doubt how much they would improve cognition in normal people.

now what on earth made you think I was normal? :P

But yeah I've read that some are beginning to think of ADD as more of a spectrum than something that's cut and dry.
Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace.