Total Posts:51|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Self Loathing

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2010 9:12:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well, it's happened... again. One of the most famous and outspoken anti-gay activists has seemingly been caught engaging in gay activities with a male escort ( http://www.cnn.com... ). I just think it's funny how the most homophobic people out there usually turn out to be gay in a great number of cases. This self-loathing really intrigues me. For instance, a white supremacist isn't one because they are ashamed about being black, just as a sexist male isn't ashamed about being a woman. Yet in regards to homosexuality, it just seems that those who are so vehemently appalled by the 'lifestyle' are also the ones who are turned on by it. Should we assume that white supremacists are turned on by black people? Haha it's not a stretch to assume that male sexists are turned on by women. I dunno. I think it's really interesting to see who hates whom and why (the underlying psychological issues) when it pertains to a group of people. Some form of self-loathing is almost always usually to blame.
President of DDO
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2010 9:16:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I actually saw some clips on YouTube just today about three really homophobic guys on the Tyra Banks Show who were all gay themselves. They kept blaming society, family, etc., but when the day is finally over, you just need to accept yourself and love yourself for who you are. I guess I should take some of my own advice, but I'm more of a giver than a receiver ;)
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2010 9:35:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 9:12:43 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Well, it's happened... again. One of the most famous and outspoken anti-gay activists has seemingly been caught engaging in gay activities with a male escort ( http://www.cnn.com... ). I just think it's funny how the most homophobic people out there usually turn out to be gay in a great number of cases. This self-loathing really intrigues me. For instance, a white supremacist isn't one because they are ashamed about being black, just as a sexist male isn't ashamed about being a woman. Yet in regards to homosexuality, it just seems that those who are so vehemently appalled by the 'lifestyle' are also the ones who are turned on by it. Should we assume that white supremacists are turned on by black people? Haha it's not a stretch to assume that male sexists are turned on by women. I dunno. I think it's really interesting to see who hates whom and why (the underlying psychological issues) when it pertains to a group of people. Some form of self-loathing is almost always usually to blame.

It sort of reminds me what younger kids do when they're flirting. Usually getting into arguments, maybe some light hitting, sarcasm, and the complete "I hate you" facade.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2010 9:37:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 9:35:14 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/12/2010 9:31:02 PM, Puck wrote:
+1 to Freud. Damnit.

But when you consider all the minuses... :p

Hehe.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2010 9:37:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 9:35:57 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
It sort of reminds me what younger kids do when they're flirting. Usually getting into arguments, maybe some light hitting, sarcasm, and the complete "I hate you" facade.

True. But activists take it to a different extreme. It's not just "I hate you" but rather "I hate you and I want you to suffer and I will do everything in my power to help you suffer." If you're gonna go that far because you like someone... well... you've got issues.
President of DDO
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2010 9:45:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 9:37:43 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/12/2010 9:35:57 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
It sort of reminds me what younger kids do when they're flirting. Usually getting into arguments, maybe some light hitting, sarcasm, and the complete "I hate you" facade.

True. But activists take it to a different extreme. It's not just "I hate you" but rather "I hate you and I want you to suffer and I will do everything in my power to help you suffer." If you're gonna go that far because you like someone... well... you've got issues.

Maybe it's just spiritual S&M.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2010 10:10:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 9:12:43 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Should we assume that white supremacists are turned on by black people?
Modern white supremacy has anti-slavery roots (because slavery required black people being here, and that is not cool for a white supremacist, they want a pure white nation). So I doubt it, since it was quite socially acceptable at the origin of the movement to go out and get a slave and rape them in most circles. White supremacists were unusual in their beliefs. Most of the homophobes who get caught having sex live in regions where most people are at least mildly anti-gay, so it's a valid defense mechanism against an unpopular tendency to be extreme against it.
Besides, race just isn't as major in terms of sexual desire as, well, sex.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 2:18:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have never met a gay man that, at some level, doesn't experience self loathing, or at least a less than feeling. In my 20's i had to work it all out, and it was crisis time in my life. Now i live with someone who is from Latin America and he is deeply entrenched with self-loathing, and really has a problem with gay men. It's very hard.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 5:29:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I almost feel sorry for the guy, even now he has been caught out he can't admit what he is. I would not be suprised if he tries to kill himself.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 5:45:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 9:16:36 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
when the day is finally over, you just need to accept yourself and love yourself for who you are. I guess I should take some of my own advice, but I'm more of a giver than a receiver ;)

what does this mean???
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 5:47:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/13/2010 5:45:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 5/12/2010 9:16:36 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
when the day is finally over, you just need to accept yourself and love yourself for who you are. I guess I should take some of my own advice, but I'm more of a giver than a receiver ;)

what does this mean???

Check his profile. I'm sure google has diagrams somewhere.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 6:28:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/13/2010 2:18:50 AM, innomen wrote:
I have never met a gay man that, at some level, doesn't experience self loathing, or at least a less than feeling. In my 20's i had to work it all out, and it was crisis time in my life. Now i live with someone who is from Latin America and he is deeply entrenched with self-loathing, and really has a problem with gay men. It's very hard.

Why do you think that is? Is it just the social pressures and the ideas associated with homosexuality, or something else?
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 6:31:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/13/2010 5:45:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 5/12/2010 9:16:36 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
when the day is finally over, you just need to accept yourself and love yourself for who you are. I guess I should take some of my own advice, but I'm more of a giver than a receiver ;)

what does this mean???

oh, giver OF ADVICE... than a reciever OF ADVICE...

ok. gotcha :p

I thought you were talking of something else :/
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 6:34:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yeah, a good handful of gay people are self-loathing. At least half, and the other half went through it at some point. I went through it too. You hate yourself for your sexuality making your life so much suckier, and mostly for disappointing your family. If you're religious, that's a whole other can of worms. Overall being gay just sucks but there's nothing you can do about it lol.
President of DDO
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 6:41:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/13/2010 6:40:04 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/13/2010 6:34:20 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Overall being gay just sucks

Thanks for the warning. xD

Woah, I missed that. I thought that was only gay men. :)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 6:47:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/13/2010 6:41:40 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Woah, I missed that. I thought that was only gay men. :)

Nope. It's annoying for all of us. It doesn't inherently suck (obviously) - just the repercussions.
President of DDO
lastrequest691
Posts: 339
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 7:37:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yes, it is true that people who don't support gay marriages turn out to be gay themselves.
"That song was absolutely waste of talent; you sounded like a wounded animal and who told you to play the guitar by yourself." Simon Cowell
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 11:01:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/12/2010 9:12:43 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Well, it's happened... again. One of the most famous and outspoken anti-gay activists has seemingly been caught engaging in gay activities with a male escort ( http://www.cnn.com... ). I just think it's funny how the most homophobic people out there usually turn out to be gay in a great number of cases. This self-loathing really intrigues me. For instance, a white supremacist isn't one because they are ashamed about being black, just as a sexist male isn't ashamed about being a woman. Yet in regards to homosexuality, it just seems that those who are so vehemently appalled by the 'lifestyle' are also the ones who are turned on by it. Should we assume that white supremacists are turned on by black people? Haha it's not a stretch to assume that male sexists are turned on by women. I dunno. I think it's really interesting to see who hates whom and why (the underlying psychological issues) when it pertains to a group of people. Some form of self-loathing is almost always usually to blame.

mabye white supremacists wish they were black.
signature
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 11:29:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/13/2010 6:47:57 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/13/2010 6:41:40 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Woah, I missed that. I thought that was only gay men. :)

Nope. It's annoying for all of us. It doesn't inherently suck (obviously) - just the repercussions.
WHOOSH. RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2010 5:11:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/13/2010 11:29:02 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/13/2010 6:47:57 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/13/2010 6:41:40 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Woah, I missed that. I thought that was only gay men. :)

Nope. It's annoying for all of us. It doesn't inherently suck (obviously) - just the repercussions.
WHOOSH. RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD.

lol, I thought so... :/
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/16/2010 11:58:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/13/2010 6:28:25 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/13/2010 2:18:50 AM, innomen wrote:
I have never met a gay man that, at some level, doesn't experience self loathing, or at least a less than feeling. In my 20's i had to work it all out, and it was crisis time in my life. Now i live with someone who is from Latin America and he is deeply entrenched with self-loathing, and really has a problem with gay men. It's very hard.

Why do you think that is? Is it just the social pressures and the ideas associated with homosexuality, or something else?

Generation after generation of every culture, society and religion on earth teaching that it's bad has a certain unavoidable impact on you. You are still and always will be a minority, and numerically speaking you are not "normal". I will tell you something, it is incredibly difficult for a straight man and a gay man to become friends. I cannot speak for lesbians, but there is fear and tension between a straight man and a gay man, and it's on both sides. Those who consider themselves open minded and liberal are even more weird about it. They seem to go out of their way to be nice and want to be friendly...to a point.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/16/2010 12:39:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/16/2010 11:58:48 AM, innomen wrote:

Generation after generation of every culture, society and religion on earth teaching that it's bad has a certain unavoidable impact on you. You are still and always will be a minority, and numerically speaking you are not "normal". I will tell you something, it is incredibly difficult for a straight man and a gay man to become friends. I cannot speak for lesbians, but there is fear and tension between a straight man and a gay man, and it's on both sides. Those who consider themselves open minded and liberal are even more weird about it. They seem to go out of their way to be nice and want to be friendly...to a point.

I completely agree with this, though admittedly it's not the same for lesbians -- most straight girls who are okay with lesbianism are not weirded out by being friends with me. Eh, I have converted many a straight girl LOL (which leads me to believe they weren't all that straight to begin with).

Nevertheless, straight people don't realize how difficult it is to be gay (I know... bust out the violins). Some of us come from cultures where religion and traditional family values are still important. It's also such an awkward and oppressive thing in society. I constantly have to refer to my girlfriend as my friend or my roommate. It might seem minor but you have no idea how frustrating and hurtful it is. I have spent so much of my life lying and alienating people because of my sexuality. I didn't talk to my parents for a VERY long time because of it; even now my communication with my mother is exceptionally limited (and it hurts me every day). It's weird when you meet new people. You're thinking - Should I tell them? Does it matter? You always have to "come out" which is annoying and again just awkward.

Overall it complicates everything and affects every single one of your relationships. You can't be open with your feelings or affection and if you do you get stared at, mocked, etc. Lesbians, for instance, are either harassed or hyper-sexualized. One time this guy gave me $5 at a party to kiss my girlfriend in front of him and I ain't no fool lol I took the money :p So sure I fed into it that one time :p

But in another instance, I kissed my girlfriend at a bus stop and when we got on the bus, a bunch of people started throwing stuff at us (and this was in New York - imagine if we were in Alabama). The Westboto Baptist Church represents how some people feel about gays, and even people who like to think that they're progressive or liberal admit that they think homosexuality is a perversion. We're stereotyped, stigmatized, and overall have to deal with a LOT of hardship and grief that straight people don't.

For all of these reasons, gays hate themselves because it's who they are. And unlike black people, gays say to themselves "Well maybe I can change" whereas a black person can obviously not change their race (INB4 Michael Jackson joke). I think a goal should be helping to educate everyone that sexuality is not something you choose, and as such you shouldn't be treated like a second class citizen because of it. One doesn't choose to be gay any more than they choose to be white. You can choose if you act upon it, but repressing it only opens up a whole other can of worms with even more self loathing and unhappiness.
President of DDO
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/16/2010 12:54:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/16/2010 12:39:23 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/16/2010 11:58:48 AM, innomen wrote:

Generation after generation of every culture, society and religion on earth teaching that it's bad has a certain unavoidable impact on you. You are still and always will be a minority, and numerically speaking you are not "normal". I will tell you something, it is incredibly difficult for a straight man and a gay man to become friends. I cannot speak for lesbians, but there is fear and tension between a straight man and a gay man, and it's on both sides. Those who consider themselves open minded and liberal are even more weird about it. They seem to go out of their way to be nice and want to be friendly...to a point.

I completely agree with this, though admittedly it's not the same for lesbians -- most straight girls who are okay with lesbianism are not weirded out by being friends with me. Eh, I have converted many a straight girl LOL (which leads me to believe they weren't all that straight to begin with).

Nevertheless, straight people don't realize how difficult it is to be gay (I know... bust out the violins). Some of us come from cultures where religion and traditional family values are still important. It's also such an awkward and oppressive thing in society. I constantly have to refer to my girlfriend as my friend or my roommate. It might seem minor but you have no idea how frustrating and hurtful it is. I have spent so much of my life lying and alienating people because of my sexuality. I didn't talk to my parents for a VERY long time because of it; even now my communication with my mother is exceptionally limited (and it hurts me every day). It's weird when you meet new people. You're thinking - Should I tell them? Does it matter? You always have to "come out" which is annoying and again just awkward.

Overall it complicates everything and affects every single one of your relationships. You can't be open with your feelings or affection and if you do you get stared at, mocked, etc. Lesbians, for instance, are either harassed or hyper-sexualized. One time this guy gave me $5 at a party to kiss my girlfriend in front of him and I ain't no fool lol I took the money :p So sure I fed into it that one time :p

But in another instance, I kissed my girlfriend at a bus stop and when we got on the bus, a bunch of people started throwing stuff at us (and this was in New York - imagine if we were in Alabama). The Westboto Baptist Church represents how some people feel about gays, and even people who like to think that they're progressive or liberal admit that they think homosexuality is a perversion. We're stereotyped, stigmatized, and overall have to deal with a LOT of hardship and grief that straight people don't.

For all of these reasons, gays hate themselves because it's who they are. And unlike black people, gays say to themselves "Well maybe I can change" whereas a black person can obviously not change their race (INB4 Michael Jackson joke). I think a goal should be helping to educate everyone that sexuality is not something you choose, and as such you shouldn't be treated like a second class citizen because of it. One doesn't choose to be gay any more than they choose to be white. You can choose if you act upon it, but repressing it only opens up a whole other can of worms with even more self loathing and unhappiness.

Well, i really would be happy if people just didn't care. Most people i come across really don't care, and those who do...well i don't care. Yes referring to Carlos is always a tricky thing. Although we can get married here, we are not, and even then it would be awkward to refer to him as my husband to other people. I generally just refer to him by his name, but this morning i met an old friend whom i hadn't seen in a pretty long time. I referred to my partner and she said "oh i didn't know you went into business for yourself", then i had to explain and it gets weird. We've been together for 7 years, and to refer to him as my boyfriend is just goofy and wrong, the whole thing is awkward and it shouldn't be. I don't feel particularly oppressed, and i am pretty out at work and most everywhere else, but, and this is a big BUT, i am not terribly effeminate. If i were effeminate the challenges would be much greater and i think the self-loathing would be greater. Those poor guys have a certain attitude (I am sure you know of it) and it's the result of societal rejection of who they are. Some are quick to reject another person as sort of an assumed pre-emptive strike, they just know they will be rejected. By the way drug and alcohol abuse is much higher among gay and lesbians.

By the way i would have taken the money too; easy money.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/16/2010 1:21:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/16/2010 12:54:51 PM, innomen wrote:
I generally just refer to him by his name, but this morning i met an old friend whom i hadn't seen in a pretty long time. I referred to my partner and she said "oh i didn't know you went into business for yourself", then i had to explain and it gets weird.

Samesies. It's awkward to call someone my girlfriend, not because I'm weirded out by it, but because I don't know if they are. I tend to only associate with people on a daily basis who are 100% okay with it, but it's tough and awkward meeting new people.

If i were effeminate the challenges would be much greater and i think the self-loathing would be greater. Those poor guys have a certain attitude (I am sure you know of it) and it's the result of societal rejection of who they are. Some are quick to reject another person as sort of an assumed pre-emptive strike, they just know they will be rejected.

Yeah, and I'm not masculine. Some people outright refuse to believe that I'm gay simply because I'm pretty feminine. Feminine girls get the "Are you SURE you're gay?" question a lot. My mom and stepdad don't believe me.

By the way drug and alcohol abuse is much higher among gay and lesbians.

Mhm, and they have a higher chance of depression and suicide. Some anti-gay people use this as evidence that gays are "not well" or shouldn't be trusted with marriage or children. They don't realize that a lot of these 'mental illnesses' stem from the self-loathing in general.

By the way i would have taken the money too; easy money.

Lol yep. The guy didn't know that the girl was my girlfriend. We were chatting at a party (he was hitting on me) and randomly I said something about a girl being hot. He was like... "You're into girls?" I said, "Yeah, why?" He didn't believe me. He thought I was doing it for attention or somehow for his own amusement. Wtf? I was like "Um, no, I really like girls." He asked me if I'd kiss a girl to prove it to him. I said, "Um, no. I don't need to prove anything to you." He said, "I'll give you 5 bucks." I was like "Alright" lol "But I pick the girl." He agreed, so my girlfriend walked by and I grabbed her and kissed her and then held out my hand for my 5 bucks. He paid :) She didn't get mad at me but Vi would have been PISSED if I did that with her lol.
President of DDO
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/16/2010 1:35:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/16/2010 1:21:09 PM, theLwerd wrote:

Mhm, and they have a higher chance of depression and suicide. Some anti-gay people use this as evidence that gays are "not well" or shouldn't be trusted with marriage or children. They don't realize that a lot of these 'mental illnesses' stem from the self-loathing in general.

By the way i would have taken the money too; easy money.

Lol yep. The guy didn't know that the girl was my girlfriend. We were chatting at a party (he was hitting on me) and randomly I said something about a girl being hot. He was like... "You're into girls?" I said, "Yeah, why?" He didn't believe me. He thought I was doing it for attention or somehow for his own amusement. Wtf? I was like "Um, no, I really like girls." He asked me if I'd kiss a girl to prove it to him. I said, "Um, no. I don't need to prove anything to you." He said, "I'll give you 5 bucks." I was like "Alright" lol "But I pick the girl." He agreed, so my girlfriend walked by and I grabbed her and kissed her and then held out my hand for my 5 bucks. He paid :) She didn't get mad at me but Vi would have been PISSED if I did that with her lol.

Ha, we do it all the time for free.

I'll tell you something else. I would love the opportunity to tutor a kid and volunteer in someway to help some of the kids in my area that are not so privileged with a good school system or support, but i have to fear the possibility of a law suit because of course if you are gay you are also a pedophile and cannot be trusted. I have a friend who is a priest, a good man, and i don't have to tell you what he goes through. There is presumed guilt on you and presumed all sorts of stuff. ON a side note of a little venting, why is it so important for straight people to know who is the top? They will actually ask me that?!?! Can you imagine asking a straight person what sexual positions they participate in with their spouses? Would you even care? They do?!?!?