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Evangelicals with Gay Kids

YYW
Posts: 36,357
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11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.
Tsar of DDO
indago
Posts: 51
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11/28/2014 7:56:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

It is obvious that the homo had no will power; and, it's just like I said: "they don't want to be cured. They want to grovel in their own obsession."
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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11/28/2014 9:26:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

Kicking a 16 year old out of the house for being gay is going too far...Christians are not called to hate sinners, but rather to show them what the light looks like.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
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FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/28/2014 9:44:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:56:44 AM, indago wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

It is obvious that the homo had no will power; and, it's just like I said: "they don't want to be cured. They want to grovel in their own obsession."

Had nothing to live for, either. Apparently everyone in his life whom said they would love him lied. Christianity for the win!

And cured infers a sickness, yadda yadda usual troll answer to usual troll bait.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Redspectre
Posts: 37
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11/28/2014 2:22:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

This is ridiculous. they took that child to church and that child still refused to accept who he is.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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11/28/2014 9:12:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

Any "Christian" that would do that is not Christian at all.
Nolite Timere
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/28/2014 9:26:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Get out of here you amoral robot!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/28/2014 9:28:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 9:26:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Get out of here you amoral robot!

I only saying things as they are. You don't have to like it but I believe I am free to discuss it here.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/28/2014 9:33:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 9:28:48 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:26:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Get out of here you amoral robot!

I only saying things as they are. You don't have to like it but I believe I am free to discuss it here.

But you contribute nothing to the heart of the discussion. Humans are not amoral creatures, and thus we like to discuss things in the context of right and wrong. By suggesting our feelings of right and wrong are irrelevant because they are not universal moral truths denies the point of the conversation within the context of the OP. Just because there are no universal truths doesn't mean you can try and subvert the contextual nature of morality.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/28/2014 9:37:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 9:33:46 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:28:48 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:26:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Get out of here you amoral robot!

I only saying things as they are. You don't have to like it but I believe I am free to discuss it here.

But you contribute nothing to the heart of the discussion. Humans are not amoral creatures, and thus we like to discuss things in the context of right and wrong.

What do you think I am doing.

By suggesting our feelings of right and wrong are irrelevant because they are not universal moral truths denies the point of the conversation within the context of the OP. Just because there are no universal truths doesn't mean you can try and subvert the contextual nature of morality.

This is completely different for those Christians though.

1. God is their ultimate value (albeit subjective)
2. Their value in God massively exceeds any other subjective value they hold
3. They firmly believe God has ruled homosexuality an abomination, one that will send them to hell, and one that they should be executed for.

They believe God is their universal moral truth. Just because the rest of society doesn't like it doesn't make it any less valid.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/28/2014 9:45:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 9:37:46 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:33:46 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:28:48 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:26:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Get out of here you amoral robot!

I only saying things as they are. You don't have to like it but I believe I am free to discuss it here.

But you contribute nothing to the heart of the discussion. Humans are not amoral creatures, and thus we like to discuss things in the context of right and wrong.

What do you think I am doing.

IDK, what are you trying to do?

By suggesting our feelings of right and wrong are irrelevant because they are not universal moral truths denies the point of the conversation within the context of the OP. Just because there are no universal truths doesn't mean you can try and subvert the contextual nature of morality.

This is completely different for those Christians though.

1. God is their ultimate value (albeit subjective)
2. Their value in God massively exceeds any other subjective value they hold
3. They firmly believe God has ruled homosexuality an abomination, one that will send them to hell, and one that they should be executed for.

They believe God is their universal moral truth. Just because the rest of society doesn't like it doesn't make it any less valid.

But these parents who lost their child are questioning those values. God is probably still their moral center, but after their loss they are now trying to reinterpret God's mandate in a way that better aligns how they feel. They are probably coming to an understanding that between life and homosexuality God values life more than ending the sin of homosexuality, and that perhaps they failed God by failing their son. Not all Christians hate gays, and although it's tragic they lost their son it's better they actually learned the error of their ways than conclude "God wanted it this way" with out any question behind the ethics of the belief.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/28/2014 10:30:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 9:45:24 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:37:46 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:33:46 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:28:48 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:26:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Get out of here you amoral robot!

I only saying things as they are. You don't have to like it but I believe I am free to discuss it here.

But you contribute nothing to the heart of the discussion. Humans are not amoral creatures, and thus we like to discuss things in the context of right and wrong.

What do you think I am doing.

IDK, what are you trying to do?

Fail

By suggesting our feelings of right and wrong are irrelevant because they are not universal moral truths denies the point of the conversation within the context of the OP. Just because there are no universal truths doesn't mean you can try and subvert the contextual nature of morality.

This is completely different for those Christians though.

1. God is their ultimate value (albeit subjective)
2. Their value in God massively exceeds any other subjective value they hold
3. They firmly believe God has ruled homosexuality an abomination, one that will send them to hell, and one that they should be executed for.

They believe God is their universal moral truth. Just because the rest of society doesn't like it doesn't make it any less valid.

But these parents who lost their child are questioning those values. God is probably still their moral center, but after their loss they are now trying to reinterpret God's mandate in a way that better aligns how they feel.

I dont see why they should feel God's mandate would be any different because they feel bad.

They are probably coming to an understanding that between life and homosexuality God values life more than ending the sin of homosexuality, and that perhaps they failed God by failing their son.

Or that they did their best to correct their son's homosexual urges.

Not all Christians hate gays, and although it's tragic they lost their son it's better they actually learned the error of their ways than conclude "God wanted it this way" with out any question behind the ethics of the belief.

They believe objective morals are.... objective and immutable. So this is all gibberish...
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/28/2014 10:40:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 10:30:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:45:24 PM, Bennett91 wrote:

I only saying things as they are. You don't have to like it but I believe I am free to discuss it here.

But you contribute nothing to the heart of the discussion. Humans are not amoral creatures, and thus we like to discuss things in the context of right and wrong.

What do you think I am doing.

IDK, what are you trying to do?

Fail

Is that a universal truth?

By suggesting our feelings of right and wrong are irrelevant because they are not universal moral truths denies the point of the conversation within the context of the OP. Just because there are no universal truths doesn't mean you can try and subvert the contextual nature of morality.

This is completely different for those Christians though.

1. God is their ultimate value (albeit subjective)
2. Their value in God massively exceeds any other subjective value they hold
3. They firmly believe God has ruled homosexuality an abomination, one that will send them to hell, and one that they should be executed for.

They believe God is their universal moral truth. Just because the rest of society doesn't like it doesn't make it any less valid.

But these parents who lost their child are questioning those values. God is probably still their moral center, but after their loss they are now trying to reinterpret God's mandate in a way that better aligns how they feel.

I dont see why they should feel God's mandate would be any different because they feel bad.

Because perhaps through this tragedy they are realizing they misinterpreted God's will. God isn't the one changing, they are. Perhaps they are realizing God doesn't want to see people die, regardless of orientation.

They are probably coming to an understanding that between life and homosexuality God values life more than ending the sin of homosexuality, and that perhaps they failed God by failing their son.

Or that they did their best to correct their son's homosexual urges.

Which they tried and the results did not match the desired effect or their interpretation of God would want. And in the tragedy they question if the desire to change their son was right, which they come to the conclusion no. And they're staying in the church in order to tell others to abandon the pursuit of converting gay children or they may suffer the same fate.

Not all Christians hate gays, and although it's tragic they lost their son it's better they actually learned the error of their ways than conclude "God wanted it this way" with out any question behind the ethics of the belief.

They believe objective morals are.... objective and immutable. So this is all gibberish...

Like I said, God isn't changing, the peoples interpretation of God is changing.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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11/28/2014 11:10:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Sorry, but "genuineness of belief" isn't enough to excuse treating people horribly.
Tsar of DDO
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/28/2014 11:13:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 11:10:22 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Sorry, but "genuineness of belief" isn't enough to excuse treating people horribly.

How are they treating people horribly if they are acting according to God's command. Is it not a perfect way to treat people if it is by God's word. If God is intrinsically good.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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11/28/2014 11:13:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 11:13:00 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:10:22 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Sorry, but "genuineness of belief" isn't enough to excuse treating people horribly.

How are they treating people horribly if they are acting according to God's command. Is it not a perfect way to treat people if it is by God's word. If God is intrinsically good.

That a person believes they understand something "from god" does not mean that it is in fact the case that God told them anything.
Tsar of DDO
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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11/28/2014 11:14:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think it's a sad reflection on a large number of people that I can't tell whether or not some people are trolling in this thread.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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11/28/2014 11:19:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 11:14:10 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I think it's a sad reflection on a large number of people that I can't tell whether or not some people are trolling in this thread.

Envisage is trolling, but the problem is that some might think he wasn't.
Tsar of DDO
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/28/2014 11:27:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 11:19:52 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:14:10 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I think it's a sad reflection on a large number of people that I can't tell whether or not some people are trolling in this thread.

Envisage is trolling, but the problem is that some might think he wasn't.

How is he trolling? This isn't the first forum where he's argued for amorality.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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11/28/2014 11:28:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 11:27:31 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:19:52 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:14:10 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I think it's a sad reflection on a large number of people that I can't tell whether or not some people are trolling in this thread.

Envisage is trolling, but the problem is that some might think he wasn't.

How is he trolling? This isn't the first forum where he's argued for amorality.

He isn't arguing for amorality.
Tsar of DDO
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/28/2014 11:32:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 11:28:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:27:31 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:19:52 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:14:10 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I think it's a sad reflection on a large number of people that I can't tell whether or not some people are trolling in this thread.

Envisage is trolling, but the problem is that some might think he wasn't.

How is he trolling? This isn't the first forum where he's argued for amorality.

He isn't arguing for amorality.

He's arguing for a neutral interpretation. That if Christians believe they are doing what they think is right then it's not wrong. If you press him and say what these parents did to their son was wrong he'll say there is no universal right or wrong so saying they did wrong is incoherent.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/28/2014 11:47:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 11:13:00 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:10:22 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Sorry, but "genuineness of belief" isn't enough to excuse treating people horribly.

How are they treating people horribly if they are acting according to God's command. Is it not a perfect way to treat people if it is by God's word. If God is intrinsically good.

If God is intrinsically good. However they are basing their decision of morality off a perception of God, as erected from their Holy text, which also states love the sinner hate the sin, do unto others, etc.

The aspects of the Bible they do not follow is rationalized away as being unimportant, but such is not the case with homosexulity.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/29/2014 6:53:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 11:47:23 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:13:00 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:10:22 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Sorry, but "genuineness of belief" isn't enough to excuse treating people horribly.

How are they treating people horribly if they are acting according to God's command. Is it not a perfect way to treat people if it is by God's word. If God is intrinsically good.

If God is intrinsically good. However they are basing their decision of morality off a perception of God, as erected from their Holy text, which also states love the sinner hate the sin, do unto others, etc.

The aspects of the Bible they do not follow is rationalized away as being unimportant, but such is not the case with homosexulity.

They Define what is "moral" as "Being in accordance with God's nature"

They derive the content of 'God's Nature' from the version of the Holy Text they believe God is from. One of those derivations of God's nature is clearly black and white that Homosexuality is an abomination, and the punishment is death. It also states black and white they do not get granted access to heaven.

If they genuinely accept that as true, then it would immoral for them NOT to try and 'fix' their child of their homosexuality in every way possible.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/29/2014 8:05:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/29/2014 6:53:32 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:47:23 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:13:00 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 11:10:22 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/28/2014 9:23:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The first line of the article surmises it nicely:
"Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians."

If they genuinely believe homosexuality is theologically abhorrent and an abomination, which will land them in hell. Then I do not see how you can complain...

How can it be a mistake if they were not acting mistakenly according to their beliefs. Out beliefs inform our acts, and I do not see how an ethical/theological belief that homosexuality is an abomination can be "wrong".

Sorry, but "genuineness of belief" isn't enough to excuse treating people horribly.

How are they treating people horribly if they are acting according to God's command. Is it not a perfect way to treat people if it is by God's word. If God is intrinsically good.

If God is intrinsically good. However they are basing their decision of morality off a perception of God, as erected from their Holy text, which also states love the sinner hate the sin, do unto others, etc.

The aspects of the Bible they do not follow is rationalized away as being unimportant, but such is not the case with homosexulity.

They Define what is "moral" as "Being in accordance with God's nature"

They derive the content of 'God's Nature' from the version of the Holy Text they believe God is from. One of those derivations of God's nature is clearly black and white that Homosexuality is an abomination, and the punishment is death. It also states black and white they do not get granted access to heaven.

If they genuinely accept that as true, then it would immoral for them NOT to try and 'fix' their child of their homosexuality in every way possible.

Indeed. But in the mean while, how many witches do you think they have burned, plowed on the Sabbath, possibly done something that might not honor their parents, worn mixed clothing to temple, knelt before a graven image, and so forth.

Those are black and white, too. How much concern do you think those other things are given?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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11/29/2014 11:21:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

The gay that the Church rejected is the cornerstone of humanity.
Psalm 118:22
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,139
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11/30/2014 12:16:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Being gay is not a sin. Neither is being sexually attracted to children, for that matter. The sin comes when someone acts upon those attractions. There is no reason why one cannot be a celibate gay and a good Christian. Evangelicals are very hypocritical when it comes to homosexuality. They use Leviticus to ostracize gays, yet they ignore the fact that Jesus himself prohibited divorce. How many so called Christians in America have gone through a divorce, or have friends and family who are on a second marriage? Those people are also committing adultery in the eyes of God, but since it is more socially acceptable, they don't make a big deal about it. Until I see fundamentalist Protestants advocating to outlaw divorce and remarriage, I will not support their agenda to end gay marriage because it is not consistent. Who are we to say that gay adultery is worse than straight adultery?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/30/2014 6:48:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

There is a couple of ways to interpret the bible or Christian theology. I'd say that if parents thought their Kid was condemned to hell for being gay tan they have a moral obligation to try and change him.

To abstain from forcing change on him would condemn him to death, in their mind. The problem in this situation should be shared. The kid is responsible for his own decisions in life, The parent's are responsible for their beliefs and actions which contributed to this but mostly religion is like a disease that infects the mind.

The problem is that the cure for that disease is worse than the disease it's self.

People like to blame the practitioners of the religion, saying they are using the religion to meet their ends but it's just wrong. These parents wouldn't do this if they knew that this was a disease that infected their mind instead of the truth.

Just like the people who died for their beliefs to take out the world trade centers didn't use religion to excuse their deeds but in fact only did the attacks because the disease of religion infected their minds.

The solution is eradication of religion.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/30/2014 6:53:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'd agree with Ford that the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality, merely acts of homosexuality and since we're all born with original sin we're all sinners and I don't know why this brand of sinning is considered so much worse than say eating pork.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/30/2014 9:05:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:56:44 AM, indago wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:23:10 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.kitsapsun.com...

I read this, and even though I'm happy to hear that someone, somewhere along the way realized that they made a horrible mistake in the way they treated their gay kids... this is still too little-too late.

When a family drives their gay kid into addiction because they don't accept him/her for who they are, and they do it in the name of religion of any kind, they showcase the extent to which their values are screwed up.... and this is endemic of what continues to be wrong with the church, now.

It is obvious that the homo had no will power; and, it's just like I said: "they don't want to be cured. They want to grovel in their own obsession."

Hopefully you're just joking. If not, I have no words.
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