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What do feminists want?

iMagUdspEllr89
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12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.
PeacefulChaos
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12/7/2014 7:29:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It is not about laws, it is about social perceptions of the other gender.
iMagUdspEllr89
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12/7/2014 8:02:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
@PeacefulChaos:

So, what do they want? I mean, I don't really know what a "social" perception is since individuals perceive independently of each other.

I read part of this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org...

According to that page, "social perception" is just about reading the behavior of people based upon context clues. I don't see what they want to change about that.
PeacefulChaos
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12/7/2014 8:16:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 8:02:06 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
@PeacefulChaos:

So, what do they want? I mean, I don't really know what a "social" perception is since individuals perceive independently of each other.

I read part of this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org...

According to that page, "social perception" is just about reading the behavior of people based upon context clues. I don't see what they want to change about that.

Many women encounter gender biases in their everyday lives. A common example is cat calling. While some may see this as harmless play or even compliments, many women consider it rude, insulting, or repelling. They thus desire to "ix the social aspect of society that believes cat calling women is okay.
iMagUdspEllr89
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12/7/2014 8:40:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
@PeacefulChaso: I don't think cat-calling women is okay. None of the people I know think cat-calling women is okay. There is a minority group of people who cat-call, harass, sexually harass, rape, murder, and generally make life suck for everyone. But, they are individuals. You can't be mad at "society" because harassers, rapists, and other criminals exist. Well, you can, but it doesn't make sense.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just stating my point of view on that idea.

But, that's what they want? They want society to change because of the actions of those individuals?
PeacefulChaos
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12/7/2014 10:54:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 8:40:20 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
@PeacefulChaso: I don't think cat-calling women is okay. None of the people I know think cat-calling women is okay. There is a minority group of people who cat-call, harass, sexually harass, rape, murder, and generally make life suck for everyone. But, they are individuals. You can't be mad at "society" because harassers, rapists, and other criminals exist. Well, you can, but it doesn't make sense.

I agree that cat calling is often disrespectful; however, the fact that women tend to encounter this fairly often in their daily lives in certain areas is indicative of the problems that feminists want to fix. While cat calling isn't as common in the area you or I live, it is common in other areas.


I'm not arguing with you. I'm just stating my point of view on that idea.

But, that's what they want? They want society to change because of the actions of those individuals?

I suppose feminists are now pushing for equality in different realms, such as the political, economic/business, writing, etc. worlds, though they have made significant gains in the political world in recent years.

They have also been successful in changing much of society's viewpoints on certain issues, yet there is still work to be done. As I am not a woman, I can't fully see how they are affected or what they mean when they believe they are treated differently. I suppose you'd have to ask a woman those questions :)

Of course, feminism has often been interpreted as a bad thing by many individuals due to radical feminist ideas (which I do not believe most feminists agree with), and is seen by some as something that is detrimental to society.
Conservative101
Posts: 191
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12/7/2014 10:59:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

They want..........MORE equality!

Oh wait, they're already equal. My bad.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
intellectuallyprimitive
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12/8/2014 1:03:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It more pertains to what they (feminists) "don't" want.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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12/8/2014 4:14:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 1:03:23 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It more pertains to what they (feminists) "don't" want.

Well then, what is it that "you" dont "want", creature?
iMagUdspEllr89
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12/8/2014 6:06:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
@PeacefulChaos: There are certain areas where women are cat-called more often? I assume it would be increase and decrease proportionately with population (the more people you have the more likely one of them is going to be disrespectful). But, again, this isn't a problem that can be fixed by wagging a finger at society or men.

Society isn't doing this and men (as a whole) aren't doing this. If someone chooses to drive drunk it doesn't make sense to scold all of humanity, or all people of the same sex as that person, et cetera.

At 12/7/2014 10:54:25 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
I suppose feminists are now pushing for equality in different realms, such as the political, economic/business, writing, etc. worlds, though they have made significant gains in the political world in recent years.

Are they not equal in all of these realms? I don't think books written by females are less likely to sell than books written by men. If you are talking about percentage of those jobs held by women. Well, that is an absurd mission. If there are 542 men planning to be professional authors why should we expect there to also be 542 women planning to be professional authors? To achieve such a goal you would have to force someone to do something that they don't want to do, sooner or later.

At 12/7/2014 10:54:25 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
Of course, feminism has often been interpreted as a bad thing by many individuals due to radical feminist ideas (which I do not believe most feminists agree with), and is seen by some as something that is detrimental to society.

By definition, I agree with and support feminism. Unfortunately, the feminists with the most visibility appear to be misandrists. Furthermore, when I interact with people who identify as feminists (that aren't the loud radicals) they won't answer the simple questions I asked in my original post. They respond with overly simple and snide comments. They hurl sarcasm down from what they perceive to be moral high-ground. The fact that they can't even share their goal inspires extreme distrust. I wouldn't have started this thread if just one of them answered me.

@intellectualyprimitive: What don't they want? Cat-called? I can't really help them with that. They have to take that up with police. People would probably stop cat-calling if the police and sexual harassment charges were on their horizon. And, yes, this has to be handled on a case by case basis. Yelling at all men to stop being pigs is definitely using too broad of a brush.
DarthVitiosus
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12/8/2014 6:08:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

Some of these rubes just love empty rhetoric which makes them sound self-righteous.

Some of these feminists will claim women make less money than men for equal work. This is hilarious to any experienced person. If they want truly "equality of men and women;" why don't they tell women to stop being lazy. After all, over 90% of workforce deaths are men. Yet most of the labor force is made up of women, many of these feminists are deranged devotees who like to select certain facts to fit their agenda whil denying other facts.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
Wylted
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12/8/2014 6:41:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

They just need a good Dicking.
Wylted
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12/8/2014 6:42:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 8:16:56 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 12/7/2014 8:02:06 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
@PeacefulChaos:

So, what do they want? I mean, I don't really know what a "social" perception is since individuals perceive independently of each other.

I read part of this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org...

According to that page, "social perception" is just about reading the behavior of people based upon context clues. I don't see what they want to change about that.

Many women encounter gender biases in their everyday lives. A common example is cat calling. While some may see this as harmless play or even compliments, many women consider it rude, insulting, or repelling. They thus desire to "ix the social aspect of society that believes cat calling women is okay.

Cat calling only occurs in the ghetto. It's not a male problem but a problem with low socio economic classes.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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12/8/2014 6:58:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 6:06:37 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
@PeacefulChaos: There are certain areas where women are cat-called more often? I assume it would be increase and decrease proportionately with population (the more people you have the more likely one of them is going to be disrespectful). But, again, this isn't a problem that can be fixed by wagging a finger at society or men.

Well, it's not as if you can implement laws against it. The best way to do it, from a feminist point of view, would be to get society to change its views on cat calling. In most areas, this has been quite successful. At least, from my experience it has been successful. But big cities or slums still experience this kind of behavior.


Are they not equal in all of these realms?

Not according to experiences given and written by females. There are conflicting statistics on this matter, but the majority of statistics I've seen in the past seem to indicate that they are not equal. Granted, I didn't thoroughly investigate them to see if they were reliable. I simply read them on some social media outlets.

I don't think books written by females are less likely to sell than books written by men. If you are talking about percentage of those jobs held by women. Well, that is an absurd mission. If there are 542 men planning to be professional authors why should we expect there to also be 542 women planning to be professional authors? To achieve such a goal you would have to force someone to do something that they don't want to do, sooner or later.

I don't think that's what feminists are pushing for. In fact, I don't think anyone is pushing for that - it appears to be a straw man set up by people to beat down. Women want to stop being treated differently or in an inferior manner as compared to men, and they also want to not have certain standards set upon them (e.g. you must wear this - if you wear this, it's not "classy" or it is slutty).

I suppose it is also a matter of the different kinds of standards we impose on women and men, and how it can be unfair at times.


By definition, I agree with and support feminism. Unfortunately, the feminists with the most visibility appear to be misandrists.

There is a reason they are the most visible. Those with the strongest (typically the most radical) opinions will speak out more, and media will cover them more to get more views. Hence why we have the stereotypical "feminist man hater."

Furthermore, when I interact with people who identify as feminists (that aren't the loud radicals) they won't answer the simple questions I asked in my original post. They respond with overly simple and snide comments. They hurl sarcasm down from what they perceive to be moral high-ground. The fact that they can't even share their goal inspires extreme distrust. I wouldn't have started this thread if just one of them answered me.

Probably because it's social media, and when it comes to controversial issues, people tend to be snarky and pretentious.

I won't deny, however, that I have seen my fair share of what you describe in Facebook comments, though I make a point to never get involved in such conversations.
PeacefulChaos
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12/8/2014 7:01:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 6:42:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/7/2014 8:16:56 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 12/7/2014 8:02:06 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
@PeacefulChaos:

So, what do they want? I mean, I don't really know what a "social" perception is since individuals perceive independently of each other.

I read part of this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org...

According to that page, "social perception" is just about reading the behavior of people based upon context clues. I don't see what they want to change about that.

Many women encounter gender biases in their everyday lives. A common example is cat calling. While some may see this as harmless play or even compliments, many women consider it rude, insulting, or repelling. They thus desire to "ix the social aspect of society that believes cat calling women is okay.

Cat calling only occurs in the ghetto. It's not a male problem but a problem with low socio economic classes.

It also occurs in big cities, and it can occur in suburbs, too, though it isn't as often.

The reason it is identified as a male problem is because, very typically, only males do it. That's not to say that all males do it, but there are apparently a fair portion out there who do, and it seems to bother women who experience it on a day to day basis.
Wylted
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12/8/2014 7:03:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 7:01:15 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 12/8/2014 6:42:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/7/2014 8:16:56 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 12/7/2014 8:02:06 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
@PeacefulChaos:

So, what do they want? I mean, I don't really know what a "social" perception is since individuals perceive independently of each other.

I read part of this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org...

According to that page, "social perception" is just about reading the behavior of people based upon context clues. I don't see what they want to change about that.

Many women encounter gender biases in their everyday lives. A common example is cat calling. While some may see this as harmless play or even compliments, many women consider it rude, insulting, or repelling. They thus desire to "ix the social aspect of society that believes cat calling women is okay.

Cat calling only occurs in the ghetto. It's not a male problem but a problem with low socio economic classes.

It also occurs in big cities, and it can occur in suburbs, too, though it isn't as often.

The reason it is identified as a male problem is because, very typically, only males do it. That's not to say that all males do it, but there are apparently a fair portion out there who do, and it seems to bother women who experience it on a day to day basis.

It would bother me also. Hopefully they can save up some money and move out of the ghettos or other urban areas where liberals like to cat call them.
PeacefulChaos
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12/8/2014 8:08:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 7:03:38 PM, Wylted wrote:

It would bother me also. Hopefully they can save up some money and move out of the ghettos or other urban areas where liberals like to cat call them.

lol

That's one way of looking at it
iMagUdspEllr89
Posts: 17
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12/8/2014 8:09:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
@PeacefulChaos: You can implement laws against it. And, they have already been implemented. Sexual harassment is a crime. Society doesn't need to change its view. Society clearly has viewed cat-calling as a bad thing at least since the 1970s when sexual harassment laws were implemented. I don't know how modern-day feminists had anything to do with that and I don't know how they are measuring success.

I assert that more and more males have discovered that cat-calling doesn't get you dates, or any kind of positive interaction from women. Also, those males and the ones who never cat-called in the first place have set an example for other males in society. I don't think women need to campaign against this, or point this out to men as if we didn't know. Just like rape. Sane people have empathy for other people. We don't need someone to tell us rape is wrong. Though, the feminist chant, 'Don't tell your daughters how to dress, tell your sons how to act.' would lead you to think otherwise.

Which statistics show that men or women are not equal? Are you referring to the "pay gap"? When women choose to take time off to have children or when women refuse to take more profitable career paths because they will require more time away from their children that difference in pay is accounted for.

Women must be treated differently than men. They have different biological needs. I can't penalize a female employee for succumbing to PMS. I just have to roll my eyes and leave her alone despite the fact that she snapped at me in a completely inappropriate manner.

e.g. I put a box on her desk. She ships stuff. That is her job. That is where the box goes.

What women wear doesn't matter to me or any male that I know. If we are sexually attracted to a woman we are more interested in what is underneath her clothes. Women impose a certain standard of dress upon each other that does not correlate with male desires. I don't care if a woman wears heels and I prefer that they don't wear make-up.

Slut-shaming is also performed by women. Men don't complain that a woman chooses to have sex with people. That is what we want, hopefully with us.

As far as double-standards, women win in every category. A man can't wear a skirt or make-up without being "gay" (kilts aside). But, women can wear whatever they want. The problem is that women count advantages that they have because of their sex as disadvantages just because it comes from sexism. The boss gives you more time off, more money, or that promotion, but it doesn't count as an advantage because he only gave it to you because he is a sexist pig that wanted to get in your pants. The worst thing I have seen modern sexism cause is cat-calling. That is, if you can attribute that to sexism, and not just jerks being jerks, rapists being rapists, murderers being murderers, et cetera.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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12/8/2014 9:07:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 8:02:06 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
@PeacefulChaos:

So, what do they want? I mean, I don't really know what a "social" perception is since individuals perceive independently of each other.

I read part of this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org...

According to that page, "social perception" is just about reading the behavior of people based upon context clues. I don't see what they want to change about that.

The Fool: in other words "thought control."
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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12/8/2014 9:48:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 10:54:25 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 12/7/2014 8:40:20 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
@PeacefulChaso: I don't think cat-calling women is okay. None of the people I know think cat-calling women is okay. There is a minority group of people who cat-call, harass, sexually harass, rape, murder, and generally make life suck for everyone. But, they are individuals. You can't be mad at "society" because harassers, rapists, and other criminals exist. Well, you can, but it doesn't make sense.

The Fool: And they usually are at the bottom part of the socioeconomic ladder. Feminist have only focused on treating social programs for women, which prevent them from being on the streets, or at the rock bottom of society.
80% to 90% of the homeless, are men.

PeacefulChaos : I agree that cat calling is often disrespectful; however, the fact that women tend to encounter this fairly often in their daily lives in certain areas is indicative of the problems that feminists want to fix. While cat calling isn't as common in the area you or I live, it is common in other areas.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just stating my point of view on that idea.

But, that's what they want? They want society to change because of the actions of those individuals?

I suppose feminists are now pushing for equality in different realms, such as the political, economic/business, writing, etc. worlds, though they have made significant gains in the political world in recent years.

The Fool: Feminist, are mostly only concerned with fixing inequalities, which they themselves determine as detrimental to women. For example, they'll fight for, women to make the same amount of money for the same job, but care nothing about women getting equal time for the same crime.

PeacefulChaos: They have also been successful in changing much of society's viewpoints on certain issues, yet there is still work to be done.

The Fool: At the cost of severely demonizing men. This causes society, to see men is more deserving of punishment, and the cause of most of the world problems, while perceiving women as either good or neutral. Because of such socialization, men get about 63% longer sentences for the same crime than women, and this is due by the way society perceives men.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Feminists advocate, excepting all woman, for who they are, but the same time suggesting that men are so intolerable, that they

PeacefulChaos : As I am not a woman, I can't fully see how they are affected or what they mean when they believe they are treated differently. I suppose you'd have to ask a woman those questions :)

The Fool: It's very easy to confuse women with feminism, but not all women agree with feminism or accept feminism. So feminism doesn't represent all women, but feminist, and not all feminist are women. They do not allow for women to disagree with them.
http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com...

PeacefulChaos : : Of course, feminism has often been interpreted as a bad thing by many individuals due to radical feminist ideas (which I do not believe most feminists agree with), and is seen by some as something that is detrimental to society.

The Fool: Most of the theoretical framework was written by radical feminists, and most feminist who hate men are not going to simply say it out loud. It's not so simple as a radical and non-radical. Many everyday feminist, have at least a few radical ideas.
Feminist theories, tend to be inherently misandrous as the presume men are morally inferior in nature to have simply structured society for their own selfishness, and to oppress women, including their own families.

That's not seeing men and women on equal terms but seeing men as inferior, and women as morally superior.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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12/8/2014 9:53:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 9:01:52 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
wsmunit7: It is difficult for people who have never experienced bias or prejudice on a sustained basis, what that is like.

The Fool: Which makes it an absolutely useless claim, as anybody can claim a bias or prejudice, and not have to justify it. That's part of the "listen and believe" agenda.

Against The Ideologist

They want people to simply have faith..
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
PeacefulChaos
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12/8/2014 10:07:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 9:48:13 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

The Fool: Feminist, are mostly only concerned with fixing inequalities, which they themselves determine as detrimental to women. For example, they'll fight for, women to make the same amount of money for the same job, but care nothing about women getting equal time for the same crime.

Okay, it's true that you don't see women advocating for getting equal time for the same crimes.


The Fool: At the cost of severely demonizing men. This causes society, to see men is more deserving of punishment, and the cause of most of the world problems, while perceiving women as either good or neutral. Because of such socialization, men get about 63% longer sentences for the same crime than women, and this is due by the way society perceives men.

I believe "demonizing" is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps there has been a more negative light around male behavior, but I personally have not felt this, so I don't really know what to say. I'm speaking in a general, social sense, of course.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I can't argue with that, unless I were to do a more thorough investigation. For now, however, I'll accept it for the sake of discussion.

While this does show that men have disadvantages in legal processes, this does not prove that women do not have disadvantages in society and doesn't discredit feminism.

The Fool: It's very easy to confuse women with feminism, but not all women agree with feminism or accept feminism. So feminism doesn't represent all women, but feminist, and not all feminist are women. They do not allow for women to disagree with them.
http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com...

I am aware, but I was merely pointing out that I cannot realize the disadvantages of being a woman, as I am a man.


The Fool: Most of the theoretical framework was written by radical feminists, and most feminist who hate men are not going to simply say it out loud. It's not so simple as a radical and non-radical. Many everyday feminist, have at least a few radical ideas.
Feminist theories, tend to be inherently misandrous as the presume men are morally inferior in nature to have simply structured society for their own selfishness, and to oppress women, including their own families.

That's not seeing men and women on equal terms but seeing men as inferior, and women as morally superior.

That means they aren't feminists, by definition, regardless of how they label themselves.

There is obviously the good and bad of feminism, but one does not invalidate the other.
intellectuallyprimitive
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12/8/2014 11:15:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 4:14:26 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 1:03:23 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It more pertains to what they (feminists) "don't" want.

Well then, what is it that "you" dont "want", creature?

I beg your pardon? I detect condescension. I also do hope you have not assumed I am a feminist.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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12/8/2014 11:34:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 11:15:30 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/8/2014 4:14:26 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 1:03:23 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It more pertains to what they (feminists) "don't" want.

Well then, what is it that "you" dont "want", creature?

I beg your pardon? I detect condescension. I also do hope you have not assumed I am a feminist.

No condecension just curiousity. What do you want and why don't feminists want it?
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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12/8/2014 11:38:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 10:07:11 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 12/8/2014 9:48:13 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

The Fool: Feminist, are mostly only concerned with fixing inequalities, which they themselves determine as detrimental to women. For example, they'll fight for, women to make the same amount of money for the same job, but care nothing about women getting equal time for the same crime.

PeacefulChaos : Okay, it's true that you don't see women advocating for getting equal time for the same crimes.

The Fool: At the cost of severely demonizing men. This causes society, to see men is more deserving of punishment, and the cause of most of the world problems, while perceiving women as either good or neutral. Because of such socialization, men get about 63% longer sentences for the same crime than women, and this is due by the way society perceives men.

PeacefulChaos: I believe "demonizing" is a bit of a stretch.

The Fool: Try flipping the script here. If this were the other way around would it not be considered misogyny? They would consider it women hating, but they don't consider it man hating when it's the other way around. That's is not equality. That's misandry.

PeacefulChaos :Perhaps there has been a more negative light around male behavior, but I personally have not felt this, so I don't really know what to say. I'm speaking in a general, social sense, of course.

The Fool: They only highlight the bad things that men do, and ignore all the good that men do. For although men commit most of the crimes, they also save the most lives and sacrifice their lives for others.. It's men who fight the wars. it's men who run into burning which can collapse at any moment.

But feminist don't mention that because that creates sympathy for men, and it's beneficial for them that men are seen as the cause of all problems. The only good men to them, is men who support their cause.

For feminist Women's achievements are to be celebrated, on days like" women's day", but celebrating men's achievements in a similar manner is frowned upon. That's not equality. That's misandry.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

PeacefulChaos: I can't argue with that, unless I were to do a more thorough investigation. For now, however, I'll accept it for the sake of discussion.

The Fool: The biggest sentencing discrepancy, are when white women judges sentence black men.

PeacefulChaos: While this does show that men have disadvantages in legal processes, this does not prove that women do not have disadvantages in society and doesn't discredit feminism.

The Fool: I don't think anybody believes that having differences doesn't come with some advantages and disadvantages.. We just have inequalities in different ways. A woman is more likely to be sexually objectified, but a man is more likely to seen as an expendable tool, to be used for money, sacrificed for protection, and to be discarded when you're no longer needed.. That's not a quality,. That's misandry.

Society is much more sensitive to women suffering then mens suffering.. For example, if a woman even feels uncomfortable we try and change society just to accommodate her feelings. If men are committing suicide we simply tell them to cry more. We blame the them; telling them it's because they're not showing enough emotion, or that they have "toxic masculinity", or that is their fault because of "patriarchy". That's not equality. That's misandry.

"across all countries reporting these data (except China and India) males show a suicide rate that is 3.0 to 7.5 times that of women"
http://www.bcmj.org...

Despite the fact that me, have the lowest life expectancy, which is directly correlated with stress, but society is only concerned if women are dying earlier because of stress..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

The Fool: It's very easy to confuse women with feminism, but not all women agree with feminism or accept feminism. So feminism doesn't represent all women, but feminist, and not all feminist are women. They do not allow for women to disagree with them.
http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com...

PeacefulChaos: : I am aware, but I was merely pointing out that I cannot realize the disadvantages of being a woman, as I am a man.

The Fool: The whole point of making you believe that, is so that they can say anything and not providing evidence. They don't want men to have a say, on what they are being accused of. That's not equality, that's misandry.

The Fool: Most of the theoretical framework was written by radical feminists, and most feminist who hate men are not going to simply say it out loud. It's not so simple as a radical and non-radical. Many everyday feminist, have at least a few radical ideas.
Feminist theories, tend to be inherently misandrous as the presume men are morally inferior in nature to have simply structured society for their own selfishness, and to oppress women, including their own families.

That's not seeing men and women on equal terms but seeing men as inferior, and women as morally superior.

PeacefulChaos: : That means they aren't feminists, by definition, regardless of how they label themselves.

The Fool: The definition is an ideal, it does not represent what feminism actually is in the actual world. Radical feminist, and separatist, or extreme feminist are still feminist and a part of feminism. Reality beats, ideology, hands down. If it was true there would not be so many people who disagree with feminism. You can be a non-feminists, and still believe in equal rights. They're not the authority on gender issues, they just want to give that impression.

PeacefulChaos:: There is obviously the good and bad of feminism, but one does not invalidate the other.

The Fool: I agree with you there, but there is a lot more bad than you probably think. I believe feminism is necessary, but that MRA is just as necessary. When you only have one group, that group starts to become bias in its own ways because they cannot see their own biases.

Not everybody agrees on what exactly constitutes equality, and where the bar of equality should be placed. For example, we may argue that both genders should have the right to prostitute themselves, if they should choose to. However most feminists would argue against this equal right for both genders because they would see it as disadvantageous to women..

So you see the problem here? Feminist are particularly interested in equal rights for men and women when it favors women, not necessarily when it favors men and women equally..

Against The Ideologist

That's not equality. That's misandry.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
intellectuallyprimitive
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12/8/2014 11:45:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 11:34:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:15:30 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/8/2014 4:14:26 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 1:03:23 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It more pertains to what they (feminists) "don't" want.

Well then, what is it that "you" dont "want", creature?

I beg your pardon? I detect condescension. I also do hope you have not assumed I am a feminist.

No condecension just curiousity. What do you want and why don't feminists want it?

Feminists for example, don't enjoy male success or male space. These are things feminists don't want. The reason why I stated that is because I often view feminists discussing things they don't want rather than things they do want. What I want is feminists to look inwards and terminate any falsities perpetuated, remove self-entitlement, and perhaps acknowledge that their counterpart encounters a multitude of issues as well.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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12/8/2014 11:53:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 11:45:00 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:34:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:15:30 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/8/2014 4:14:26 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 1:03:23 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It more pertains to what they (feminists) "don't" want.

Well then, what is it that "you" dont "want", creature?

I beg your pardon? I detect condescension. I also do hope you have not assumed I am a feminist.

No condecension just curiousity. What do you want and why don't feminists want it?

Feminists for example, don't enjoy male success or male space. These are things feminists don't want. The reason why I stated that is because I often view feminists discussing things they don't want rather than things they do want. What I want is feminists to look inwards and terminate any falsities perpetuated, remove self-entitlement, and perhaps acknowledge that their counterpart encounters a multitude of issues as well.

MRAs for example, don't enjoy female success or feminine interactions. There are things that Men's activists dont want. The reason why I stated that is because I often view men here discussing things they don't want rather than things they do want. What I want is for mras to look inwards and terminate any false notions perpetuated, remove self-entitlement, and perhaps acknowledge that their counterparts encounter a multitude of crap as well.

Fix'd ;D
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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12/9/2014 12:01:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 11:45:00 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:34:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:15:30 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/8/2014 4:14:26 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 1:03:23 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It more pertains to what they (feminists) "don't" want.

Well then, what is it that "you" dont "want", creature?

I beg your pardon? I detect condescension. I also do hope you have not assumed I am a feminist.

No condecension just curiousity. What do you want and why don't feminists want it?

Feminists for example, don't enjoy male success or male space.

The Fool: Yeah they are very against Male Space. They're treating us like tr children who must be monitored at all time. Like we can't be trusted alone, or we are going do something evil.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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12/9/2014 12:02:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 11:53:52 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:45:00 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:34:36 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:15:30 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/8/2014 4:14:26 PM, fazz wrote:
At 12/8/2014 1:03:23 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 12/7/2014 6:38:18 PM, iMagUdspEllr89 wrote:
I am unable to determine what feminists want. They refuse to say anything more specific than "The equality of men and women." From my perspective, men and women appear to be equal.

What law do they want passed? What law do they want repealed?

Thank you for your responses in advance.

It more pertains to what they (feminists) "don't" want.

Well then, what is it that "you" dont "want", creature?

I beg your pardon? I detect condescension. I also do hope you have not assumed I am a feminist.

No condecension just curiousity. What do you want and why don't feminists want it?

Feminists for example, don't enjoy male success or male space. These are things feminists don't want. The reason why I stated that is because I often view feminists discussing things they don't want rather than things they do want. What I want is feminists to look inwards and terminate any falsities perpetuated, remove self-entitlement, and perhaps acknowledge that their counterpart encounters a multitude of issues as well.

MRAs for example, don't enjoy female success or feminine interactions. There are things that Men's activists dont want. The reason why I stated that is because I often view men here discussing things they don't want rather than things they do want. What I want is for mras to look inwards and terminate any false notions perpetuated, remove self-entitlement, and perhaps acknowledge that their counterparts encounter a multitude of crap as well.

Fix'd ;D

I'm astonished and simultaneously perplexed as to why you have shifted this discussion towards MRA's, and moreover you find it clever to mock what I stated rather than addressing any of the content. Additionally, you will discover upon further review of the MRM, that no concern of female space or success is condemned.

Below are a few examples highlighting what I stated earlier.

http://www.avoiceformen.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...