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Is society becoming more hateful or p.c

UtherPenguin
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12/22/2014 12:16:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
(By PC I meant "politically correct" I couldn't fit the whole word in the title)

It's a weird phenomena but I seem to notice both happening at the same time. Media such as movies and cartoons are becoming way more politically correct and top afraid to display any controversial or touchy subjects.

Take Disney for example: in the 90's (I am not trying to be an annoying elitist "90's kid" now so forgive me if I sound like one) Disney movies seemed a lot less hesitant to touch on controverisal topics for the sake of historic accuracy for example the Disney song "Savages" from Pocahontas showed the First Nations (or Native Americans) displaying their complete hatred of each other to the point of calling for genocide. (link to song: https://www.youtube.com... )

While a bit much for a kids movie Disney didn't seem scared to touch on subjects like these in order to convey a message. Same could be said of another Disney song "Hellfire" (link: https://www.youtube.com... )

But imagine if this song and movie was released today? Imagine the controversy that occur from parents and social groups when something like "Savages" was sung in a Disney movie? Because of that I noticed Disney became a lot more happy-go lucky nowadays almost all of the disney songs for the past 5 years have been all about love and friendship and individualism and all of that stuff. If you still don't think Disney would face controversy if Pocahontas was made in 2014 then just look at what Social Justice Warriors did when Frozen came out ( http://knowyourmeme.com...) and how a movie like Frozen was accused of being racist, yes Frozen was accused of being bloody racist.

However oddly enough while their is an increase in people that get too easily offended there is an equal increase in people that don't know when to draw the line. I was on Youtube watching a video called "10 Fastest Super Cars" So watching a video on cars you would expect it to be about cars, but nope here was the top comment:

"Arabs are the scum of the earth.A279;" And this comment got about 153 likes.

In fact go on any video from the YouTube group "Alltime10's" and you find the comment section consisting of a cesspool of people insulting each other for their religious beliefs (most commonly between Atheists and Christians and at least half of them are trolls)
Almost any video on Youtube that has any slight connection to religion,race or politics almost always has its comment section dissolve into a "flamewar" So does that mean society is getting more hateful?
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/22/2014 12:47:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Both, ironically. But, more importantly, more stupid, as well.

With the advent of home computer affordibility and the internet (mid 90's, I'd say), people are more informed and more connected then ever before. Yet, they do not know how to utilize this information (as there is tons of misinformation as well), and thus, urban legends are debunked, but replaced with memes and sound bytes.

This causes more anger, more jealousy, more bitterness, and to counter, others employ more PCness to either highlight the racism of another or to at least not offend.
My work here is, finally, done.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2014 1:44:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Things are getting more intense via exposure to more, the news, internet, the more obvious wealth disparity etc. I was trying to write a post about this earlier, with particular attention paid to 4chan, but I really couldn't get into the swing of it. We've just opened up a new of dialogue that we've never had before, basically - numerous dialogues even. Perhaps it's just turbulent growth.
AnDoctuir
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12/22/2014 1:48:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:44:32 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Things are getting more intense via exposure to more, the news, internet, the more obvious wealth disparity etc. I was trying to write a post about this earlier, with particular attention paid to 4chan, but I really couldn't get into the swing of it. We've just opened up a new of dialogue that we've never had before, basically - numerous dialogues even. Perhaps it's just turbulent growth.

Saying it's just turbulent growth is ridiculously dismissive, of course, but my hope would be that that's what it is.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/22/2014 1:54:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:48:22 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:44:32 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Things are getting more intense via exposure to more, the news, internet, the more obvious wealth disparity etc. I was trying to write a post about this earlier, with particular attention paid to 4chan, but I really couldn't get into the swing of it. We've just opened up a new of dialogue that we've never had before, basically - numerous dialogues even. Perhaps it's just turbulent growth.

Saying it's just turbulent growth is ridiculously dismissive, of course, but my hope would be that that's what it is.

That's a good way to put it, and maybe that is all it is.
However, I doubt it, since people seem to be ever more dumb.
I'm sorry, but if making change is too hard for you, I doubt you are able to critically assess what your friends post on Facebook as true, real, or unbiased.
My work here is, finally, done.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2014 2:08:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:54:10 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:48:22 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:44:32 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Things are getting more intense via exposure to more, the news, internet, the more obvious wealth disparity etc. I was trying to write a post about this earlier, with particular attention paid to 4chan, but I really couldn't get into the swing of it. We've just opened up a new of dialogue that we've never had before, basically - numerous dialogues even. Perhaps it's just turbulent growth.

Saying it's just turbulent growth is ridiculously dismissive, of course, but my hope would be that that's what it is.

That's a good way to put it, and maybe that is all it is.
However, I doubt it, since people seem to be ever more dumb.
I'm sorry, but if making change is too hard for you, I doubt you are able to critically assess what your friends post on Facebook as true, real, or unbiased.

There are myriad things coming into it though, dude. The internet for example is providing people with an outlet for things that have otherwise been buried hugely deep in them, catharsis like how Mayans used to sacrifice women to their gods .....We're just doing things wrong in general, which really builds up a vileness in people, they're fixating on it for insecurity of it, it gets worse for society's not accounting for it, then, well, ....there it is. Most of it is just emotional ruptures, really, I think. Cries for help almost. I hope so anyway lol... Or maybe I just shouldn't give a f*ck.

(I'm not saying the Mayans weren't doing it wrong either btw - they definitely were.)
AnDoctuir
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12/22/2014 2:36:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sorry, I was kinda talking across you here Khaos... It was basically just some of the content from the post I was gonna make finding its way into comments.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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12/22/2014 11:47:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 12:47:41 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Both, ironically. But, more importantly, more stupid, as well.

With the advent of home computer affordibility and the internet (mid 90's, I'd say), people are more informed and more connected then ever before. Yet, they do not know how to utilize this information (as there is tons of misinformation as well), and thus, urban legends are debunked, but replaced with memes and sound bytes.

This sentiment is ageless, from 'O tempora o mores!' to 'Guided missiles and misguided men.' I think that the basic answer is that this isn't news at all, that the 'othering' of those who are different is a fundamental part of human behaviour. It is this exclusion from group-focused empathy which builds social walls between castes, races and classes in stable societies, and causes a sturdy, if often brutal and cruel, entente. In strictly stratified societies, the vitriol exists only at the borders between classes, seething beneath a calm facade.

However, these sentiments come to the surface during times of strife which bring disparate communities into large-scale contact. Cicero was fighting a civil war along sharp class lines and Dr. King was leading a civil rights movement. Today, nearly every facet is being brought together online, shattering the barriers which sheltered us from other groups and allowed us to practice our neat little bigotries within our comfort zone. The result is an outpouring of acrimony as well as a slow growth of understanding.

But it is always a temporary experience; fresh wounds scab over and a new paradigm replaces the old. Lines in the sand shift, and new prejudices reinforce them into sturdy walls which wait for the next storm to tear them down.

This causes more anger, more jealousy, more bitterness, and to counter, others employ more PCness to either highlight the racism of another or to at least not offend.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Such
Posts: 1,110
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12/24/2014 12:25:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 12:16:40 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
(By PC I meant "politically correct" I couldn't fit the whole word in the title)

It's a weird phenomena but I seem to notice both happening at the same time. Media such as movies and cartoons are becoming way more politically correct and top afraid to display any controversial or touchy subjects.

Take Disney for example: in the 90's (I am not trying to be an annoying elitist "90's kid" now so forgive me if I sound like one) Disney movies seemed a lot less hesitant to touch on controverisal topics for the sake of historic accuracy for example the Disney song "Savages" from Pocahontas showed the First Nations (or Native Americans) displaying their complete hatred of each other to the point of calling for genocide. (link to song: https://www.youtube.com... )

While a bit much for a kids movie Disney didn't seem scared to touch on subjects like these in order to convey a message. Same could be said of another Disney song "Hellfire" (link: https://www.youtube.com... )

But imagine if this song and movie was released today? Imagine the controversy that occur from parents and social groups when something like "Savages" was sung in a Disney movie? Because of that I noticed Disney became a lot more happy-go lucky nowadays almost all of the disney songs for the past 5 years have been all about love and friendship and individualism and all of that stuff. If you still don't think Disney would face controversy if Pocahontas was made in 2014 then just look at what Social Justice Warriors did when Frozen came out ( http://knowyourmeme.com...) and how a movie like Frozen was accused of being racist, yes Frozen was accused of being bloody racist.

However oddly enough while their is an increase in people that get too easily offended there is an equal increase in people that don't know when to draw the line. I was on Youtube watching a video called "10 Fastest Super Cars" So watching a video on cars you would expect it to be about cars, but nope here was the top comment:

"Arabs are the scum of the earth.A279;" And this comment got about 153 likes.

In fact go on any video from the YouTube group "Alltime10's" and you find the comment section consisting of a cesspool of people insulting each other for their religious beliefs (most commonly between Atheists and Christians and at least half of them are trolls)
Almost any video on Youtube that has any slight connection to religion,race or politics almost always has its comment section dissolve into a "flamewar" So does that mean society is getting more hateful?

Political correctness started in the 90's (I was there, too). I don't understand why it's so controversial these days, because it doesn't seem to have the same problems now that it did then, and I certainly don't know what Disney movies have to do with political correctness.

As I recall, and as some sources agree, political correctness started as a concern as it applies primarily to the dissemination of information, but subordinately to political and media manifestations.

And, accordingly, I don't understand what the criticism for political correctness actually is.

What you essentially said was, "I mean, Disney doesn't even have movies that project genocide as an acceptable ideological remedy or with characters who are so hypocritical, they call themselves men of God but then admit that they're too weak to resist the Devil."

(The only movie in recent years with a villain and his song -- https://www.youtube.com... -- , notwithstanding).

I don't see that as a bad thing? I won't hide movies like Pocahontas from my children, as apparently, it's a story that may have some truth to it and it is something that touches on a place in history with some real significance, but since Disney has been making movies that exist almost entirely in fantasy land for a while now, I would prefer that they don't inject those movies with terrible ideologies that will haunt my children rather than simply entertain them.

The fact is that political correctness is still relevant, but to the extent that perhaps, it should still be practiced by those who are influential, given what we see the true nature of people's perspectives are, as exemplified by those on the internet who are empowered enough by their anonymity and physical remoteness to speak what is really in their hearts. And, what actually lies in their hearts is hatred and intolerance.

Without ideals like political correctness, you would have that same hatred spouted by the likes of people like Bill O'Reilly, who is already obnoxious enough to say ambiguously bigoted things like, "there's got to be some downside to a female president."

Because, y'know, she's female.

That sort of behavior legitimatizes those who misbehave on the internet and share their own hatred. Political correctness is simply social responsibility by those who are in the public eye and are therefore, in a position to shepherd sheep. I see nothing wrong with that.
UtherPenguin
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12/24/2014 1:13:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/24/2014 12:25:55 PM, Such wrote:
At 12/22/2014 12:16:40 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
(By PC I meant "politically correct" I couldn't fit the whole word in the title)

It's a weird phenomena but I seem to notice both happening at the same time. Media such as movies and cartoons are becoming way more politically correct and top afraid to display any controversial or touchy subjects.

Take Disney for example: in the 90's (I am not trying to be an annoying elitist "90's kid" now so forgive me if I sound like one) Disney movies seemed a lot less hesitant to touch on controverisal topics for the sake of historic accuracy for example the Disney song "Savages" from Pocahontas showed the First Nations (or Native Americans) displaying their complete hatred of each other to the point of calling for genocide. (link to song: https://www.youtube.com... )

While a bit much for a kids movie Disney didn't seem scared to touch on subjects like these in order to convey a message. Same could be said of another Disney song "Hellfire" (link: https://www.youtube.com... )

But imagine if this song and movie was released today? Imagine the controversy that occur from parents and social groups when something like "Savages" was sung in a Disney movie? Because of that I noticed Disney became a lot more happy-go lucky nowadays almost all of the disney songs for the past 5 years have been all about love and friendship and individualism and all of that stuff. If you still don't think Disney would face controversy if Pocahontas was made in 2014 then just look at what Social Justice Warriors did when Frozen came out ( http://knowyourmeme.com...) and how a movie like Frozen was accused of being racist, yes Frozen was accused of being bloody racist.

However oddly enough while their is an increase in people that get too easily offended there is an equal increase in people that don't know when to draw the line. I was on Youtube watching a video called "10 Fastest Super Cars" So watching a video on cars you would expect it to be about cars, but nope here was the top comment:

"Arabs are the scum of the earth.A279;" And this comment got about 153 likes.

In fact go on any video from the YouTube group "Alltime10's" and you find the comment section consisting of a cesspool of people insulting each other for their religious beliefs (most commonly between Atheists and Christians and at least half of them are trolls)
Almost any video on Youtube that has any slight connection to religion,race or politics almost always has its comment section dissolve into a "flamewar" So does that mean society is getting more hateful?

Political correctness started in the 90's (I was there, too). I don't understand why it's so controversial these days, because it doesn't seem to have the same problems now that it did then, and I certainly don't know what Disney movies have to do with political correctness.

As I recall, and as some sources agree, political correctness started as a concern as it applies primarily to the dissemination of information, but subordinately to political and media manifestations.

And, accordingly, I don't understand what the criticism for political correctness actually is.

What you essentially said was, "I mean, Disney doesn't even have movies that project genocide as an acceptable ideological remedy or with characters who are so hypocritical, they call themselves men of God but then admit that they're too weak to resist the Devil."

(The only movie in recent years with a villain and his song -- https://www.youtube.com... -- , notwithstanding).

I don't see that as a bad thing? I won't hide movies like Pocahontas from my children, as apparently, it's a story that may have some truth to it and it is something that touches on a place in history with some real significance, but since Disney has been making movies that exist almost entirely in fantasy land for a while now, I would prefer that they don't inject those movies with terrible ideologies that will haunt my children rather than simply entertain them.

The fact is that political correctness is still relevant, but to the extent that perhaps, it should still be practiced by those who are influential, given what we see the true nature of people's perspectives are, as exemplified by those on the internet who are empowered enough by their anonymity and physical remoteness to speak what is really in their hearts. And, what actually lies in their hearts is hatred and intolerance.

Without ideals like political correctness, you would have that same hatred spouted by the likes of people like Bill O'Reilly, who is already obnoxious enough to say ambiguously bigoted things like, "there's got to be some downside to a female president."

Because, y'know, she's female.

That sort of behavior legitimatizes those who misbehave on the internet and share their own hatred. Political correctness is simply social responsibility by those who are in the public eye and are therefore, in a position to shepherd sheep. I see nothing wrong with that.

I am not necessary saying its good to make songs glorifying genocide but what I was trying to say was that political correctness and hatred (often xenophobic hatred) seem to be on an equal rise, I was just using Disney as an example. Political Correctness is in turn not a bad thing but I was just saying that it seemed as though one facet of society is taking Political Correctness to too much of an extreme as another completely disregards it, Hence making that group of people callous and unable to know when to draw the line.
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
AnDoctuir
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12/24/2014 1:35:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh - all the stuff about Hitler etc. is just to make light of a bad thing. It's kinda like that ridiculous charm in Harry Potter for dealing with the boggarts. Granted though, it can get pretty despicable/incredibly delusional - and it can break pretty badly too, what with it essentially being to push back the world with a lie (might be conducive to dementia IMO).
DanneJeRusse
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12/24/2014 4:59:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 12:16:40 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
(By PC I meant "politically correct" I couldn't fit the whole word in the title)

It's a weird phenomena but I seem to notice both happening at the same time. Media such as movies and cartoons are becoming way more politically correct and top afraid to display any controversial or touchy subjects.

Funny you should mention cartoons. "The Face of Muhammad" a series of 12 cartoons, sparked violence and death from outraged Muslims. Perhaps, that is the fear of controversial or touchy subjects you refer.

The "Innocence of Muslims" video achieved the same results. Maybe, the phenomena is not so weird as it is disturbing.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth