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Serial

bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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12/24/2014 7:02:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Has anybody listened to the "This American Life" spinoff (called Serial)?

Thought on it or the case?
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Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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12/25/2014 11:49:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/24/2014 7:02:20 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Has anybody listened to the "This American Life" spinoff (called Serial)?

Thought on it or the case?

I was pretty firmly on the "Adnan did it" side of the fence, but after discussing it to death over the holidays I think I'm leaning more to the "Jay did it" side.
Such
Posts: 1,110
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12/26/2014 11:29:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 11:49:09 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/24/2014 7:02:20 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Has anybody listened to the "This American Life" spinoff (called Serial)?

Thought on it or the case?

I was pretty firmly on the "Adnan did it" side of the fence, but after discussing it to death over the holidays I think I'm leaning more to the "Jay did it" side.

Oh, I was never firmly against Adnan... I thought there was too much doubt surrounding this story from beginning to end to decide against him absolutely.

But, Jay has absolutely no motive whatsoever. I'm pretty sure the reason why no one has questioned him, despite his obvious, glaring suspiciousness, is because of that lack of a motive.

But, the problem with Jay is that everything that he told police that regarded Adnan specifically was wrong. His only reliable information were specifics of what actually happened, separate of who did it -- the fact that Hae was definitely killed, how she was murdered, where her abandoned car was, etc.

Then, there was the fact that Adnan seemed completely at ease, whereas Jay was all messed up about it -- but the clincher is, Jay only started showing concern later -- weeks later.

Then, there is the DNA information, which is absent. Wtf is that. They didn't test anything from the crime scene for anything useful.

Now, what else do we know (that, at least, everyone has corroborated on)? Well, we know that Jay was a weed dealer, and we know that Adnan liked to smoke weed and drink. We also know that Jay liked to hang out with even more shady people -- if you recall the interview with his coworker at the porn store, he said that he hung out with people who might be capable of being involved with a murder, but that he didn't believe Jay himself was capable of it.

Now, the thing is that if you're going to make any money at all selling weed, then you need to sell a fair amount of it. This means that you need to obtain a fair amount of it. If you're obtaining a fair amount of weed, then you know some people who deal with, for the lack of a better description, "bigger weight."

We already know that his family depended on him for support, and that he was "raising himself," so he couldn't just nickle and dime it, and a porn store clerk job definitely wasn't going to cut it. We also know that his girlfriend's parents didn't like him, because they thought he was shady and didn't even go to school, so whatever else he was doing, he did it full time.

Back to the DNA, there is one other bit of evidence that I neglected to mention -- there was some evidence left behind that they concluded did not belong to Hae nor Adnan. Who's was it, then? It could be Jay's, perhaps, but I think it was probably another party altogether.

So, when I put all these things together, I came up with this theory: Jay got himself involved with some shady individuals, and he fuckked up somehow. Jay, I figure, either told them that his girlfriend was Hae or blamed it outright on Adnan, and they targeted Hae to send a message. Adnan ended up finding out, but was threatened that the rest of his family is next if he says anything. This is why he won't mention a word, but is so confident that if the evidence were more thoroughly analyzed, it would prove that it wasn't him.

Then, the people who killed Hae dumped her body where they normally do -- at this local park. The maintenance man from the park overheard somebody who is completely outside the case talking about it, and informed the cops anonymously, claiming he stumble across it while taking a pee.

As the cops got closer to finding out what happened, those people started threatening Jay, which is why he started getting so nervous. So, he went to the cops and cast their eyes on Adnan, working out a deal for immunity.

Then, true to form, as soon as the deal was sealed and he was out of harm's way for a moment, he skipped town and refuses to talk further about it.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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12/26/2014 3:47:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 11:49:09 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/24/2014 7:02:20 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Has anybody listened to the "This American Life" spinoff (called Serial)?

Thought on it or the case?

I was pretty firmly on the "Adnan did it" side of the fence, but after discussing it to death over the holidays I think I'm leaning more to the "Jay did it" side.

Why were you initially on the Adnan did it side?
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/22/2015 3:13:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/24/2014 7:02:20 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Has anybody listened to the "This American Life" spinoff (called Serial)?

Thought on it or the case?

I listened to it. Repeatedly, and I listened to several spinoff podcasts about the case.

I think Adnan did it. The taped interviews, he says stuff like "they don't have evidence I did this", stuff like that. Why the hell would an innocent person say "you don't have evidence I did it", instead of saying "I didn't do it".

The memory problems are typical of liars. A person who is trying to be honest will have a ton of inconsistencies in their stories, because that's just how memory works, while a liar will just try to keep things short and sweet. Even years later, it's better to develop a case of amnesia, so the defense has more ways they can attack the prosecution, than be tied down to one argument, and I'm sure this case will get retried at some point.

I do think the cops played dirty in this case. If you've listened to the podcast "undisclosed", they bring up some evidence that the officers coerced a lot of the information out of Jay.

If Adnan didn't do it, I think a third party would have, not Jay.

With that being said, I don't think I'd find him guilty, with the evidence I heard in the show, though the jurors in the case heard a completely different story than we did, and probably had more of the facts to make a fair decision.

Of course, I'm very biased towards the defense. I probably raise the burden of proof on the prosecution, more than what the jury system was designed for.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/22/2015 3:16:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also I don't buy Adnan's bullshitt that he barely knows Jay. You don't let somebody drive your car if you aren't extremely close friends. Hell, I'm reluctant to let my fiance drive my car.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/22/2015 3:18:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I can't wait for season 2 to come out. It was supposed to be in 2015, and the year is more than half way over. I'm getting impatient, and I hope their fans don't force them to continually do "true crime" stories. There are a ton of good stories from all types of things.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/23/2015 11:29:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:13:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/24/2014 7:02:20 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Has anybody listened to the "This American Life" spinoff (called Serial)?

Thought on it or the case?

I listened to it. Repeatedly, and I listened to several spinoff podcasts about the case.

I think Adnan did it. The taped interviews, he says stuff like "they don't have evidence I did this", stuff like that. Why the hell would an innocent person say "you don't have evidence I did it", instead of saying "I didn't do it".

The memory problems are typical of liars. A person who is trying to be honest will have a ton of inconsistencies in their stories, because that's just how memory works, while a liar will just try to keep things short and sweet. Even years later, it's better to develop a case of amnesia, so the defense has more ways they can attack the prosecution, than be tied down to one argument, and I'm sure this case will get retried at some point.

I do think the cops played dirty in this case. If you've listened to the podcast "undisclosed", they bring up some evidence that the officers coerced a lot of the information out of Jay.

If Adnan didn't do it, I think a third party would have, not Jay.

With that being said, I don't think I'd find him guilty, with the evidence I heard in the show, though the jurors in the case heard a completely different story than we did, and probably had more of the facts to make a fair decision.

Of course, I'm very biased towards the defense. I probably raise the burden of proof on the prosecution, more than what the jury system was designed for.

Well, given that it's supposed to be "beyond a reasonable doubt", I don't think that it's unreasonable to give the prosecution a very high burden of proof, which is of course different than whether you think he did it or not just generally.

I'm inclined to lean towards Adnan did not do it, as I just don't see anything directly tying him to the crime in a meaninful sense. I think Jay's such a liar that it actually works against the Adnan hypothesis, but that "being a compulsive liar" and "being a murderer" are two distinct things. I think there's cause to think it MIGHT have been Jay, but that generally speaking I'd lean towards "Idunno" and "the cops did a terrible job"--though, given that they got a conviction, that very much depends on your perspective on their job.
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/23/2015 11:30:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:18:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
I can't wait for season 2 to come out. It was supposed to be in 2015, and the year is more than half way over. I'm getting impatient, and I hope their fans don't force them to continually do "true crime" stories. There are a ton of good stories from all types of things.

Me too.

Also: Sarah Koenig did a ringtone for BoJack Horseman, and it was hilarious.
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/23/2015 11:49:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/23/2015 11:30:21 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:18:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
I can't wait for season 2 to come out. It was supposed to be in 2015, and the year is more than half way over. I'm getting impatient, and I hope their fans don't force them to continually do "true crime" stories. There are a ton of good stories from all types of things.

Me too.

Also: Sarah Koenig did a ringtone for BoJack Horseman, and it was hilarious.

I live in the same city as the prosecuting attorney for Adnon. I keep getting these impulses to visit his office with a camera and confront him over some things, such as stupid statements in the interview with slate.

I'm not beneath ambush journalism
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/23/2015 11:50:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/23/2015 11:49:44 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/23/2015 11:30:21 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:18:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
I can't wait for season 2 to come out. It was supposed to be in 2015, and the year is more than half way over. I'm getting impatient, and I hope their fans don't force them to continually do "true crime" stories. There are a ton of good stories from all types of things.

Me too.

Also: Sarah Koenig did a ringtone for BoJack Horseman, and it was hilarious.

I live in the same city as the prosecuting attorney for Adnon. I keep getting these impulses to visit his office with a camera and confront him over some things, such as stupid statements in the interview with slate.

I'm not beneath ambush journalism

You would be a subreddit king for a day, to be sure!
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/23/2015 11:59:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/23/2015 11:50:24 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/23/2015 11:49:44 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/23/2015 11:30:21 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:18:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
I can't wait for season 2 to come out. It was supposed to be in 2015, and the year is more than half way over. I'm getting impatient, and I hope their fans don't force them to continually do "true crime" stories. There are a ton of good stories from all types of things.

Me too.

Also: Sarah Koenig did a ringtone for BoJack Horseman, and it was hilarious.

I live in the same city as the prosecuting attorney for Adnon. I keep getting these impulses to visit his office with a camera and confront him over some things, such as stupid statements in the interview with slate.

I'm not beneath ambush journalism

You would be a subreddit king for a day, to be sure!

I thought about the notoriety from doing that, which is what makes me extremely tempted, but dang it I have to live in that town and see his face occasionally.