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Plans are nothing; planning is everything.

Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/5/2015 11:52:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Plans are nothing; planning is everything."

Dwight D. Eisenhower said it. My question is this. Was Eisenhower an idiot?

http://www.brainyquote.com...

"Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential."

Winston Churchill said it. Was he an idiot?

http://www.goodreads.com...

I just absolutely hate deviating from any plan. Is there some truth in what these guys are saying?

If there is, what is the point of developing a plan if you're just going to pee on it?
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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1/5/2015 11:56:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Supposedly, you create your initial plan based on the best available information. If you discover more info that leads you to believe your plan is no longer the best course of action, then wouldn't it be foolish to stick with the existing plan if there is a better alternative? I'm pretty sure those quotes are about not being rigid and changing when change is warranted. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/5/2015 11:59:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 11:56:00 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Supposedly, you create your initial plan based on the best available information. If you discover more info that leads you to believe your plan is no longer the best course of action, then wouldn't it be foolish to stick with the existing plan if there is a better alternative? I'm pretty sure those quotes are about not being rigid and changing when change is warranted. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I do. It means you've failed at making a perfect plan.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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1/5/2015 11:59:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 11:59:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:56:00 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Supposedly, you create your initial plan based on the best available information. If you discover more info that leads you to believe your plan is no longer the best course of action, then wouldn't it be foolish to stick with the existing plan if there is a better alternative? I'm pretty sure those quotes are about not being rigid and changing when change is warranted. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I do. It means you've failed at making a perfect plan.

What reason do you have to believe that there is such a thing as a "perfect plan?"
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/6/2015 12:03:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 11:59:59 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:59:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:56:00 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Supposedly, you create your initial plan based on the best available information. If you discover more info that leads you to believe your plan is no longer the best course of action, then wouldn't it be foolish to stick with the existing plan if there is a better alternative? I'm pretty sure those quotes are about not being rigid and changing when change is warranted. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I do. It means you've failed at making a perfect plan.

What reason do you have to believe that there is such a thing as a "perfect plan?"

There has to be. There can't be more than 1, most optimal way of doing something. There might be multiple ones that are equally optimal but I can't see every conceivable plan as being sub optimal.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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1/6/2015 12:06:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:03:49 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:59:59 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:59:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:56:00 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Supposedly, you create your initial plan based on the best available information. If you discover more info that leads you to believe your plan is no longer the best course of action, then wouldn't it be foolish to stick with the existing plan if there is a better alternative? I'm pretty sure those quotes are about not being rigid and changing when change is warranted. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I do. It means you've failed at making a perfect plan.

What reason do you have to believe that there is such a thing as a "perfect plan?"

There has to be. There can't be more than 1, most optimal way of doing something. There might be multiple ones that are equally optimal but I can't see every conceivable plan as being sub optimal.

Do you think it's possible to have all, perfect information about a given situation?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/6/2015 12:09:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:06:49 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:03:49 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:59:59 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:59:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:56:00 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Supposedly, you create your initial plan based on the best available information. If you discover more info that leads you to believe your plan is no longer the best course of action, then wouldn't it be foolish to stick with the existing plan if there is a better alternative? I'm pretty sure those quotes are about not being rigid and changing when change is warranted. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I do. It means you've failed at making a perfect plan.

What reason do you have to believe that there is such a thing as a "perfect plan?"

There has to be. There can't be more than 1, most optimal way of doing something. There might be multiple ones that are equally optimal but I can't see every conceivable plan as being sub optimal.

Do you think it's possible to have all, perfect information about a given situation?

No but these guys are talking about just pissing on a plan. What was the point of creating a plan if you were just going to do that?
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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1/6/2015 12:12:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:09:54 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:06:49 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:03:49 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:59:59 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:59:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:56:00 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Supposedly, you create your initial plan based on the best available information. If you discover more info that leads you to believe your plan is no longer the best course of action, then wouldn't it be foolish to stick with the existing plan if there is a better alternative? I'm pretty sure those quotes are about not being rigid and changing when change is warranted. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I do. It means you've failed at making a perfect plan.

What reason do you have to believe that there is such a thing as a "perfect plan?"

There has to be. There can't be more than 1, most optimal way of doing something. There might be multiple ones that are equally optimal but I can't see every conceivable plan as being sub optimal.

Do you think it's possible to have all, perfect information about a given situation?

No but these guys are talking about just pissing on a plan. What was the point of creating a plan if you were just going to do that?

I don't agree that they're talking about "pissing on a plan." You create a plan with the intention of executing it, but knowing full well that new information may require a change (i.e. more planning).
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/6/2015 12:14:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Maybe they're talking about having a whole bunch of plans and always being the plan master, even though most of the time those plans will come to nothing.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/6/2015 12:24:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago

No but these guys are talking about just pissing on a plan. What was the point of creating a plan if you were just going to do that?

Because all plans are masterstrokes until they encounter enemy resistance.

The GOAL of a plan is to accomplish an end.

The execution of a plan is to put all best efforts and resources into play in the most efficient and expidient means possible to accomplish that end. The more people involved, the more you want everyone to be operating around the same plan ('on the same page').

Should the plan have reason to fail, this would be best determined during the planning.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/6/2015 12:28:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Baskets are of little importance. Baskets are everything.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/6/2015 12:31:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:24:28 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:

No but these guys are talking about just pissing on a plan. What was the point of creating a plan if you were just going to do that?

Because all plans are masterstrokes until they encounter enemy resistance.

The GOAL of a plan is to accomplish an end.

The execution of a plan is to put all best efforts and resources into play in the most efficient and expidient means possible to accomplish that end. The more people involved, the more you want everyone to be operating around the same plan ('on the same page').

Should the plan have reason to fail, this would be best determined during the planning.

That sounds good but it literally sounds like these guys are saying plans are pointless to have, although oddly enough they value planning very highly.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,811
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1/6/2015 12:31:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 11:52:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
"Plans are nothing; planning is everything."

Dwight D. Eisenhower said it. My question is this. Was Eisenhower an idiot?

http://www.brainyquote.com...

"Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential."

Winston Churchill said it. Was he an idiot?

http://www.goodreads.com...

I just absolutely hate deviating from any plan. Is there some truth in what these guys are saying?

If there is, what is the point of developing a plan if you're just going to pee on it?

Well, I think you would have the original plan and then edit it as the events unfold. I think they're trying to say that final product of the plan doesn't matter, but how you get there does. Plans are constantly edited to adapt to the changing times, the original plan is not written in stone. They see a better way, or they see a worse way and are forced to scrap the plan, making it nothing. But they learned from it, they learned from the planning.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/6/2015 12:34:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:31:21 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:52:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
"Plans are nothing; planning is everything."

Dwight D. Eisenhower said it. My question is this. Was Eisenhower an idiot?

http://www.brainyquote.com...

"Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential."

Winston Churchill said it. Was he an idiot?

http://www.goodreads.com...

I just absolutely hate deviating from any plan. Is there some truth in what these guys are saying?

If there is, what is the point of developing a plan if you're just going to pee on it?

Well, I think you would have the original plan and then edit it as the events unfold. I think they're trying to say that final product of the plan doesn't matter, but how you get there does. Plans are constantly edited to adapt to the changing times, the original plan is not written in stone. They see a better way, or they see a worse way and are forced to scrap the plan, making it nothing. But they learned from it, they learned from the planning.

You've made more sense than anybody so far.

I see that planning could be useful in that way.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/6/2015 12:35:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:31:01 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:24:28 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:

No but these guys are talking about just pissing on a plan. What was the point of creating a plan if you were just going to do that?

Because all plans are masterstrokes until they encounter enemy resistance.

The GOAL of a plan is to accomplish an end.

The execution of a plan is to put all best efforts and resources into play in the most efficient and expidient means possible to accomplish that end. The more people involved, the more you want everyone to be operating around the same plan ('on the same page').

Should the plan have reason to fail, this would be best determined during the planning.

That sounds good but it literally sounds like these guys are saying plans are pointless to have, although oddly enough they value planning very highly.

I think its just the appreciation of Murphy's Law, though I somewhat agree the language of such is a bit terse to the idea.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,811
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1/6/2015 12:35:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:34:24 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:31:21 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:52:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
"Plans are nothing; planning is everything."

Dwight D. Eisenhower said it. My question is this. Was Eisenhower an idiot?

http://www.brainyquote.com...

"Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential."

Winston Churchill said it. Was he an idiot?

http://www.goodreads.com...

I just absolutely hate deviating from any plan. Is there some truth in what these guys are saying?

If there is, what is the point of developing a plan if you're just going to pee on it?

Well, I think you would have the original plan and then edit it as the events unfold. I think they're trying to say that final product of the plan doesn't matter, but how you get there does. Plans are constantly edited to adapt to the changing times, the original plan is not written in stone. They see a better way, or they see a worse way and are forced to scrap the plan, making it nothing. But they learned from it, they learned from the planning.

You've made more sense than anybody so far.

I see that planning could be useful in that way.

When I write, I create an "outline" of how things are going to go. I write generalizations and that's the plan. So many things change when I start writing that the original plan looks nothing like the new one, and still that new one is edited. There is always room for improvement.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/6/2015 3:03:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 11:52:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
"Plans are nothing; planning is everything."

Dwight D. Eisenhower said it. My question is this. Was Eisenhower an idiot?

http://www.brainyquote.com...

"Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential."

Winston Churchill said it. Was he an idiot?

http://www.goodreads.com...

I just absolutely hate deviating from any plan. Is there some truth in what these guys are saying?

If there is, what is the point of developing a plan if you're just going to pee on it?

If you're God and can anticipate any scenario, then sure, stick to your Plan. Otherwise, life is going to throw you curveballs, and the best way to deal with it is to adapt. The best way to adapt is to consider as many possibilities as you possibly can.

Thus, your plans are going to turn to crap. However, your ability to adapt, the planning, is what is going to get you through it.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/6/2015 8:02:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:03:22 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:52:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
"Plans are nothing; planning is everything."

Dwight D. Eisenhower said it. My question is this. Was Eisenhower an idiot?

http://www.brainyquote.com...

"Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential."

Winston Churchill said it. Was he an idiot?

http://www.goodreads.com...

I just absolutely hate deviating from any plan. Is there some truth in what these guys are saying?

If there is, what is the point of developing a plan if you're just going to pee on it?

If you're God and can anticipate any scenario, then sure, stick to your Plan. Otherwise, life is going to throw you curveballs, and the best way to deal with it is to adapt. The best way to adapt is to consider as many possibilities as you possibly can.

Thus, your plans are going to turn to crap. However, your ability to adapt, the planning, is what is going to get you through it.

Why plan than?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/6/2015 8:15:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:02:35 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:03:22 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/5/2015 11:52:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
"Plans are nothing; planning is everything."

Dwight D. Eisenhower said it. My question is this. Was Eisenhower an idiot?

http://www.brainyquote.com...

"Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential."

Winston Churchill said it. Was he an idiot?

http://www.goodreads.com...

I just absolutely hate deviating from any plan. Is there some truth in what these guys are saying?

If there is, what is the point of developing a plan if you're just going to pee on it?

If you're God and can anticipate any scenario, then sure, stick to your Plan. Otherwise, life is going to throw you curveballs, and the best way to deal with it is to adapt. The best way to adapt is to consider as many possibilities as you possibly can.

Thus, your plans are going to turn to crap. However, your ability to adapt, the planning, is what is going to get you through it.

Why plan than?

The more you plan, the more scenarios you take into consideration. You may end up using something other than the plan you decided to use, and in the case that something completely unanticipated arises, you have several angles at your disposal to consider. Had you only constructed one plan and banked your hopes on it, you would not have such options.

Basically, think about where you'd be if you never had a "plan B" to implement.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?