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Abortion made illegal, what would happen

BDPershing
Posts: 75
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1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:
- Increased orphan population
- economical hit
- more child suffering
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,788
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1/21/2015 1:26:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:

- The words "Justice for all" and "equal rights" will no longer be lip service where children and children's rights are concerned.
- Education efforts will insure that students are taught that personhood and rights begin when biological life begins - at conception.
- The knowledge that abortion is illegal combined with the lack of availability and the legal consequences for having illegal abortions will result in couples taking prevention more seriously and that will result in fewer and fewer unwanted pregnancies.
- More and more attention will be focused on improving contraceptive birth control for men and women.
-As more men will be held accountable for the children they father - Vasectomies will be much more common. (predatory men will no longer have legal abortions as their way out of the responsibilities of fatherhood)
- illegal abortion rates will likely climb
- Self induced abortion rates will also likely climb.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/21/2015 7:41:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Metal hanger sales would increase?
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Illegalcombatant
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1/23/2015 8:23:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:
- Increased orphan population
- economical hit
- more child suffering

You don't have to "predict" there are still places around where abortion is illegal right ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Illegalcombatant
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1/23/2015 8:25:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 1:26:04 AM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:

- Education efforts will insure that students are taught that personhood and rights begin when biological life begins - at conception.

Is that some kind of joke ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Chuz-Life
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1/24/2015 2:00:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:25:09 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:26:04 AM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:

- Education efforts will insure that students are taught that personhood and rights begin when biological life begins - at conception.

Is that some kind of joke ?

Not at all.

Why do you ask?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Illegalcombatant
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1/24/2015 2:10:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 2:00:23 AM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:25:09 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:26:04 AM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:

- Education efforts will insure that students are taught that personhood and rights begin when biological life begins - at conception.

Is that some kind of joke ?

Not at all.

Why do you ask?

Because as I understand it some one like would like to see "rights" specifically the right not to be killed given to an organism from the moment of conception, and therefore taking away any freedom of a woman who does not want to continue with a pregnancy.

So a group of 10 cells gets the "right to life" ? as cause it has that right a woman who is pregnant gets has no choice but to continue with that pregnancy ?

Once again I ask, is this a joke ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Illegalcombatant
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1/24/2015 2:10:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://www.advancedfertility.com...
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
16kadams
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1/24/2015 2:15:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:
- Increased orphan population

Probably. But 40 million children raised as orphans would be superior to that of 40 million children dead.

- economical hit

Unlikely. Increasing population generally correlates with more economic growth. Further, zero tax dollars would subsidize abortion, meaning spending would go elsewhere.

- more child suffering

Untrue. Abortion legalization has increased crime (Lott and Whitley 2001, 2007, Lott 2007). Abortion legalization is also associated with increase out of wedlock births and other things which lead to child suffering (Lott 2007). Further, deaths due to abortion actually decreased in Chile after a ban--so fewer mothers would die (Kock et al. 2012). This is empirically false.
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numberwang
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1/24/2015 2:48:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 1:26:04 AM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:

- The words "Justice for all" and "equal rights" will no longer be lip service where children and children's rights are concerned.
- Education efforts will insure that students are taught that personhood and rights begin when biological life begins - at conception.

Why would education efforts (I'm assuming we are talking about highschool and down here) teach anything different about this when public schools don't touch this issue explicitly in the first place? The age of personhood isn't something set in stone and isn't something schools teach now so why would this change?

- The knowledge that abortion is illegal combined with the lack of availability and the legal consequences for having illegal abortions will result in couples taking prevention more seriously and that will result in fewer and fewer unwanted pregnancies.

Abortion would still be available, it would just be illegal. Lots of people got abortions before row v. wade, they just were far more likely to die.

- More and more attention will be focused on improving contraceptive birth control for men and women.

The same people that want to ban abortions also want to limit education about and availability of contraceptives to young people. If they're getting their way, this definitely wouldn't be the case.

Why not focus on improving contraceptives in the first place rather than focusing on banning abortions? If contraceptives are good enough abortions won't even be necessary, and considering abortion rates are lower than even isn't there a case to be made that it is more practical and less controversial (for lack of a better word) to prevent unwanted pregnancy rather than ban abortion?

-As more men will be held accountable for the children they father - Vasectomies will be much more common. (predatory men will no longer have legal abortions as their way out of the responsibilities of fatherhood)

Fathers are still held accountable for children which they want aborted, unless this varies by state. But I'm pretty sure they're always held accountable anyway, and still have to pay for children.

- illegal abortion rates will likely climb
- Self induced abortion rates will also likely climb.

And deaths from those two will climb as a result.
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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1/24/2015 3:28:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's actually counter-intuitive. If you took away all the child welfare and support payments, there would me much, much less casual sex (which is good) and unplanned pregnancies because women would be screwed (I am really clever, I know) if they gave birth to a child that they couldn't afford. Hence, along with the cutting of welfare, there would be far, far less instances that require abortion.

Otherwise, you get all these single mothers and young girls who have had sex with every guy they've met, that are completely undesirable for men of quality (or even men who will stay with them), thus any child that these women decide to have (my body, my choice, but the taxpayer's responsibility) is raised improperly and the mother suffers greatly. Abortion sexually liberates women so that they are inclined to make these dreadful lifestyle choices.
bsh1
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1/24/2015 4:03:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You still owe me a debate.
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BDPershing
Posts: 75
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1/24/2015 4:06:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 2:15:00 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:
- Increased orphan population

Probably. But 40 million children raised as orphans would be superior to that of 40 million children dead.

when nearly half these children will phase out of foster care and become homeless...

- economical hit

Unlikely. Increasing population generally correlates with more economic growth. Further, zero tax dollars would subsidize abortion, meaning spending would go elsewhere.
This is untrue for it depends on who's the growing population, 40 million homeless young adults with not educational degree and an average 20 IQ below average, its very unlikely they will be on any use. concluding for them to be a burden and not a benefit. Besides weren't some of you "save the earth" fools just preaching about over population...

- more child suffering

Untrue. Abortion legalization has increased crime (Lott and Whitley 2001, 2007, Lott 2007). Abortion legalization is also associated with increase out of wedlock births and other things which lead to child suffering (Lott 2007). Further, deaths due to abortion actually decreased in Chile after a ban--so fewer mothers would die (Kock et al. 2012). This is empirically false.

Statistically it shows kids who are not adopted and fall out of the foster care system are 60% more likely to commit a crime. Increase crime can also be linked to the mother convicted of murder due to miscarriage, which holds a sentence of 30 years... Besides look at any 3rd world country, they have no abortion policy they cant afford to abort, how many children are born yet die due to poor conditions, how many mothers die due to complicated pregnancy. There's over 153 Million children who are orphans around the world with no home how about we fix the issue we currently have with the ones who are actually living, who actually can speak for themselves, the ones we can consider an actual person. Fix the orphan problem before turning on abortion...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/24/2015 9:32:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:
- Increased orphan population

Studies have concluded the opposite. It's been a while since I seen them but since abortion has been legalized there has been an up surge of unwanted births.

- economical hit

Doesn't follow. With all the free subsidies poor people are rewarded for just having children it's unlikely many individuals will be worse off financially.

- more child suffering

This is just sick. To try to end child suffering with murder is just wrong. Why not just kill every kid to end it?
Wylted
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1/24/2015 9:36:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I resent all the dehumanizing of foster kids and equating them as being low IQ criminals.

I was a foster kid. My IQ is high (as if somebody should be murdered for having a low one) and the only crimes I've committed are for things that shouldn't be illegal anyway or crap that just acts as an extra tax on the poor.
SaxxyBlues
Posts: 22
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1/24/2015 11:25:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It will stir Satan to worse evils. Probably something like ~ a new fad would be to smother people in public restrooms till they turn blue. Who knows Satan is a crafty creature.
SaxxyBlues
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1/24/2015 11:29:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 1:26:04 AM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:

- The words "Justice for all" and "equal rights" will no longer be lip service where children and children's rights are concerned.
- Education efforts will insure that students are taught that personhood and rights begin when biological life begins - at conception.
- The knowledge that abortion is illegal combined with the lack of availability and the legal consequences for having illegal abortions will result in couples taking prevention more seriously and that will result in fewer and fewer unwanted pregnancies.
- More and more attention will be focused on improving contraceptive birth control for men and women.
-As more men will be held accountable for the children they father - Vasectomies will be much more common. (predatory men will no longer have legal abortions as their way out of the responsibilities of fatherhood)
- illegal abortion rates will likely climb
- Self induced abortion rates will also likely climb.

Could you explain "quickening" in the womb, and why that happens at around 4th month of pregnancy?
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,788
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1/24/2015 12:47:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 2:10:11 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

. . . as I understand it some one like would like to see "rights" specifically the right not to be killed given to an organism from the moment of conception, and therefore taking away any freedom of a woman who does not want to continue with a pregnancy.


No-one is free to violate the rights of others.

So a group of 10 cells gets the "right to life" ?

Not "gets" - HAS!

as cause it has that right a woman who is pregnant gets has no choice but to continue with that pregnancy ?


Barring something like a life of the mother situation. Yeah. The word begin has a real meaning. If we are to say that a person's rights should BEGIN when their life does, then we owe it to that person or person's to honor their rights and to afford to them some legal protections from the moment of their beginning.

Once again I ask, is this a joke ?

No at all.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Chuz-Life
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1/24/2015 12:49:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 3:28:49 AM, Zarroette wrote:
It's actually counter-intuitive. If you took away all the child welfare and support payments, there would me much, much less casual sex (which is good) and unplanned pregnancies because women would be screwed (I am really clever, I know) if they gave birth to a child that they couldn't afford. Hence, along with the cutting of welfare, there would be far, far less instances that require abortion.

Otherwise, you get all these single mothers and young girls who have had sex with every guy they've met, that are completely undesirable for men of quality (or even men who will stay with them), thus any child that these women decide to have (my body, my choice, but the taxpayer's responsibility) is raised improperly and the mother suffers greatly. Abortion sexually liberates women so that they are inclined to make these dreadful lifestyle choices.

^^^ Love this please accept a friend request from me.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
Chuz-Life
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1/24/2015 1:13:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 2:48:57 AM, numberwang wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:26:04 AM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:

- The words "Justice for all" and "equal rights" will no longer be lip service where children and children's rights are concerned.
- Education efforts will insure that students are taught that personhood and rights begin when biological life begins - at conception.

Why would education efforts (I'm assuming we are talking about highschool and down here) teach anything different about this when public schools don't touch this issue explicitly in the first place?

You didn't learn about conception and how that (biologically) begins a new organism's life? In social studies, you didn't learn about human rights?

The age of personhood isn't something set in stone and isn't something schools teach now so why would this change?

Either by the Supreme Court reversing Roe or by a Constitutional Amendment, Once personhood and its beginning is more clearly established, it is a given that it will be presented in the curriculum. Landmark cases and changes like that are not often ignored by academia.

- The knowledge that abortion is illegal combined with the lack of availability and the legal consequences for having illegal abortions will result in couples taking prevention more seriously and that will result in fewer and fewer unwanted pregnancies.

Abortion would still be available, it would just be illegal. Lots of people got abortions before row v. wade, they just were far more likely to die.

Whether that is true or not is another matter. Children's rights are not contingent upon whether the protection of their rights might give cause for their mother's (sic) to resort to illegal ways of getting rid of them. Children have a Constitutional right to the equal protections of our laws - regardless of what their mothers MIGHT resort to.

- More and more attention will be focused on improving contraceptive birth control for men and women.

The same people that want to ban abortions also want to limit education about and availability of contraceptives to young people.

Okay. . . . and?

If they're getting their way, this definitely wouldn't be the case.


Are they getting their way?

Why not focus on improving contraceptives in the first place rather than focusing on banning abortions?

Because the children who are being aborted are being denied their Constitutional rights, personhood and the equal protections of our laws. That's why.

If contraceptives are good enough abortions won't even be necessary, and considering abortion rates are lower than even isn't there a case to be made that it is more practical and less controversial (for lack of a better word) to prevent unwanted pregnancy rather than ban abortion?

I see no reasons for why we can't do both. Improve contraception AND do more to establish the personhood rights (and protections) of prenatal children.

-As more men will be held accountable for the children they father - Vasectomies will be much more common. (predatory men will no longer have legal abortions as their way out of the responsibilities of fatherhood)

Fathers are still held accountable for children which they want aborted, unless this varies by state. But I'm pretty sure they're always held accountable anyway, and still have to pay for children.

Yes. But with abortion being - legal - many men and women use legalized abortion as a safety net. If the woman gets pregnant - many men will do everything they can to force / coerce her to abort. It is in that way that legalized abortion actually REWARDS predatory men who have no intention of being responsible to their partners or children.

- illegal abortion rates will likely climb
- Self induced abortion rates will also likely climb.

And deaths from those two will climb as a result.

Probably so. Though I doubt that it will ever reach 50 Million - like the numbers of children already killed by abortions have.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Chuz-Life
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1/24/2015 1:37:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 11:29:18 AM, SaxxyBlues wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:26:04 AM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:

- The words "Justice for all" and "equal rights" will no longer be lip service where children and children's rights are concerned.
- Education efforts will insure that students are taught that personhood and rights begin when biological life begins - at conception.
- The knowledge that abortion is illegal combined with the lack of availability and the legal consequences for having illegal abortions will result in couples taking prevention more seriously and that will result in fewer and fewer unwanted pregnancies.
- More and more attention will be focused on improving contraceptive birth control for men and women.
-As more men will be held accountable for the children they father - Vasectomies will be much more common. (predatory men will no longer have legal abortions as their way out of the responsibilities of fatherhood)
- illegal abortion rates will likely climb
- Self induced abortion rates will also likely climb.

Could you explain "quickening" in the womb, and why that happens at around 4th month of pregnancy?

Can't you Google it?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
SaxxyBlues
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1/24/2015 4:54:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I looked up quickening, it's when the fetus begins to move. I think God knew that Satan would work up to the abortion issue. I think God puts a soul in the fetus at quickening. My God wouldn't allow millions of children to die. My God knew what Satan was up to. And My God knows every hair on my head.
Chuz-Life
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1/24/2015 5:49:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 4:54:13 PM, SaxxyBlues wrote:
I looked up quickening, it's when the fetus begins to move. I think God knew that Satan would work up to the abortion issue. I think God puts a soul in the fetus at quickening. My God wouldn't allow millions of children to die. My God knew what Satan was up to. And My God knows every hair on my head.

These "souls" you can prove they exist?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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YYW
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1/24/2015 6:21:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:
- Increased orphan population
- economical hit
- more child suffering

You're exactly right.
Tsar of DDO
ESocialBookworm
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1/24/2015 6:23:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 6:19:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Lives would be saved.

Define 'saved.'
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1/24/2015 8:31:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 6:23:43 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 1/24/2015 6:19:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Lives would be saved.

Define 'saved.'

alive, living
Nolite Timere
xXCryptoXx
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1/24/2015 8:32:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 2:15:00 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:59:10 PM, BDPershing wrote:
Predictions on what would happen of abortion is made illegal.

My predictions:
- Increased orphan population

Probably. But 40 million children raised as orphans would be superior to that of 40 million children dead.

- economical hit

Unlikely. Increasing population generally correlates with more economic growth. Further, zero tax dollars would subsidize abortion, meaning spending would go elsewhere.

- more child suffering

Untrue. Abortion legalization has increased crime (Lott and Whitley 2001, 2007, Lott 2007). Abortion legalization is also associated with increase out of wedlock births and other things which lead to child suffering (Lott 2007). Further, deaths due to abortion actually decreased in Chile after a ban--so fewer mothers would die (Kock et al. 2012). This is empirically false.

You should do a debate on this.
Nolite Timere
SaxxyBlues
Posts: 22
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1/24/2015 9:25:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 5:49:12 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/24/2015 4:54:13 PM, SaxxyBlues wrote:
I looked up quickening, it's when the fetus begins to move. I think God knew that Satan would work up to the abortion issue. I think God puts a soul in the fetus at quickening. My God wouldn't allow millions of children to die. My God knew what Satan was up to. And My God knows every hair on my head.

These "souls" you can prove they exist?

Prove no, believe yes, cause I read the bible:

"Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."