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Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?

R0b1Billion
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1/28/2015 8:04:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I really like Paula Cole's song by this name; besides the fact that it's an incredible piece of music, it is equally incredible in its sociological inquiry.

In modern times, we have resigned ourselves to laying on sofas in front of electrical contraptions meant not only to indulge us when we are relaxing, but also to replace our productive lives. Our bodies are weaker and fatter than ever before. We are incredibly inept to the point where we can perform maintenance tasks on almost nothing we own. We no longer understand the land and its flora and fauna; the animals we do keep are just as fat and confused as we are, locked behind fences like abused children unable to do more than bark autistically at passing shapes in the street. Our sense of morality is all but dried-up, as laws and protocol of business replace all we have to think about. We know not of our neighbors, nor do we invest much time or effort to help them or cooperate with them in any way. We are a defeated people, malignant and dying as a culture and a nation.

There was a time when we were a proud people; when our virtues and morals were something to marvel at. A time when a man could live off the land by his natural knowledge, raise a family to help the world and not hurt it, and die proud that he lived a good life. I'm not sure how one can live a good life any more, there is temptation, ease, and vice at every turn and we assimilate the culture of indulgence and indifference at such a young age. The cowboy is dead, and his honor has died with him. He cannot come back with his Winchester and liberate us from our prisons of concrete; he would need a bullet for every one of us to do that.

I shudder to think what the great thinkers of history would have to say about us, should they see us now. -_-
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
thett3
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1/28/2015 8:23:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree with everything in this thread. It's something I've been thinking about a lot, lately.

My father likes to talk about how, up until a few hundred years ago or so, our way of life was infinitely sustainable. Now look at us, scrabbling for dwindling resources that also happen to destroy the environment, and for what? We've gained material wealth, but lost our minds and souls.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Maikuru
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1/28/2015 8:31:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:04:34 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I really like Paula Cole's song by this name; besides the fact that it's an incredible piece of music, it is equally incredible in its sociological inquiry.

In modern times, we have resigned ourselves to laying on sofas in front of electrical contraptions meant not only to indulge us when we are relaxing, but also to replace our productive lives. Our bodies are weaker and fatter than ever before. We are incredibly inept to the point where we can perform maintenance tasks on almost nothing we own. We no longer understand the land and its flora and fauna; the animals we do keep are just as fat and confused as we are, locked behind fences like abused children unable to do more than bark autistically at passing shapes in the street. Our sense of morality is all but dried-up, as laws and protocol of business replace all we have to think about. We know not of our neighbors, nor do we invest much time or effort to help them or cooperate with them in any way. We are a defeated people, malignant and dying as a culture and a nation.

There was a time when we were a proud people; when our virtues and morals were something to marvel at. A time when a man could live off the land by his natural knowledge, raise a family to help the world and not hurt it, and die proud that he lived a good life. I'm not sure how one can live a good life any more, there is temptation, ease, and vice at every turn and we assimilate the culture of indulgence and indifference at such a young age. The cowboy is dead, and his honor has died with him. He cannot come back with his Winchester and liberate us from our prisons of concrete; he would need a bullet for every one of us to do that.

I shudder to think what the great thinkers of history would have to say about us, should they see us now. -_-

I have a few thoughts on this, but I have some foundational questions first. What time in history are you referring to, exactly, and in what regions? What demographics of people are you referencing, also? Lastly, where are you drawing your information from concerning the virtues, morals, pride, and temptations (or lack thereof) of that era?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Maikuru
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1/28/2015 8:35:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:23:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree with everything in this thread. It's something I've been thinking about a lot, lately.

My father likes to talk about how, up until a few hundred years ago or so, our way of life was infinitely sustainable. Now look at us, scrabbling for dwindling resources that also happen to destroy the environment, and for what? We've gained material wealth, but lost our minds and souls.

It's easy to have nostalgia for a time we didn't live through lol. In fact, there is no better time to be alive than today.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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thett3
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1/28/2015 8:36:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think it's worth noting that the way we're carrying on simply isn't the way our minds have evolved to live. The negative effects of this are very manifest...

I don't know the solution to this.

What you said about the animals we keep was very on point. I simply don't get how people raise their pets. My parents keep their cats inside to keep them safe--in my mind, that's tantamount to animal cruelty and I'd never treat a pet of mine like that. My cat is the only one that's allowed to go out. My girlfriend keeps urging me to get a dog...but I live in a college town and I don't have a backyard. Again, tantamount to animal cruelty in my life...what kind of a life would that be for a dog? And yet, plenty of people living in similar circumstances have dogs. And when they do have them, very few raise them properly-- the old archetype of a dog as a loyal, sturdy, and serious companion has almost completely been replaced by dogs that are encouraged to be immature puppies their entire lives. Silly, undisciplined, stupid, and the equivalent of a permanent child.

It's difficult for me to put into words--that's why I really liked this post. It mirrored my thoughts for the most part.
DDO Vice President

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#UnbanTheMadman

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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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1/28/2015 8:38:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:35:28 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:23:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree with everything in this thread. It's something I've been thinking about a lot, lately.

My father likes to talk about how, up until a few hundred years ago or so, our way of life was infinitely sustainable. Now look at us, scrabbling for dwindling resources that also happen to destroy the environment, and for what? We've gained material wealth, but lost our minds and souls.

It's easy to have nostalgia for a time we didn't live through lol. In fact, there is no better time to be alive than today.

I agree but that doesn't mean there aren't lessons to be taken from the past. If there was a time machine to take me back to the 1700s, I'd have to be taken back kicking and screaming--however there are certain societal advantages that existed then that don't exist now which could help us make a better world. I don't think we can dismiss the lessons of the past just because today is arguably better.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Maikuru
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1/28/2015 8:46:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:38:41 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:35:28 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:23:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree with everything in this thread. It's something I've been thinking about a lot, lately.

My father likes to talk about how, up until a few hundred years ago or so, our way of life was infinitely sustainable. Now look at us, scrabbling for dwindling resources that also happen to destroy the environment, and for what? We've gained material wealth, but lost our minds and souls.

It's easy to have nostalgia for a time we didn't live through lol. In fact, there is no better time to be alive than today.

I agree but that doesn't mean there aren't lessons to be taken from the past. If there was a time machine to take me back to the 1700s, I'd have to be taken back kicking and screaming--however there are certain societal advantages that existed then that don't exist now which could help us make a better world. I don't think we can dismiss the lessons of the past just because today is arguably better.

Yeah, I agree. I do believe there are some lessons we can learn from the past, so long as we do so in context. For example, the past may seem more sustainable, but that wasn't for a lack of trying on their part. Differences in consumption and waste production are largely a matter of their comparatively smaller population and lesser resource harvesting techniques. I don't think human nature has transformed so much as human capability, though I'm sure you could say the process is cyclical and self-perpetuating.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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thett3
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1/28/2015 8:54:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:46:09 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:38:41 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:35:28 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:23:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree with everything in this thread. It's something I've been thinking about a lot, lately.

My father likes to talk about how, up until a few hundred years ago or so, our way of life was infinitely sustainable. Now look at us, scrabbling for dwindling resources that also happen to destroy the environment, and for what? We've gained material wealth, but lost our minds and souls.

It's easy to have nostalgia for a time we didn't live through lol. In fact, there is no better time to be alive than today.

I agree but that doesn't mean there aren't lessons to be taken from the past. If there was a time machine to take me back to the 1700s, I'd have to be taken back kicking and screaming--however there are certain societal advantages that existed then that don't exist now which could help us make a better world. I don't think we can dismiss the lessons of the past just because today is arguably better.

Yeah, I agree. I do believe there are some lessons we can learn from the past, so long as we do so in context. For example, the past may seem more sustainable, but that wasn't for a lack of trying on their part. Differences in consumption and waste production are largely a matter of their comparatively smaller population and lesser resource harvesting techniques. I don't think human nature has transformed so much as human capability, though I'm sure you could say the process is cyclical and self-perpetuating.

Oh, I didn't mean that we've necessarily started being wasteful and environmentally destructive because of some change in our nature. A lot of it is just like you said, different access to resources--but that doesn't mean it isn't something to be upset about. Although, many older worldviews held the Earth itself to be sacred. Most of those were stamped out by more organized religions long before industrialization, but I wonder what they would've thought about it.

I think it's hard to deny that we've become extremely inept in many ways, in the United States at least. I doubt many of us can live up the examples of our grandfathers when it comes to basic, useful knowledge like how to fix cars or build things. The entire "Do It Yourself" ethic has completely declined--like Rob said, we can do basic maintenance on basically nothing...people pay like $40 for something as simple as an oil change.

Our society is less racist and homophobic, more educated and wealthier, but there are certain things we've left behind that it would behoove us to get back.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Maikuru
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1/28/2015 8:58:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:54:24 PM, thett3 wrote:

Fair points. If you could revert an aspect of American culture to an earlier version, what aspect would that be?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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YamaVonKarma
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1/28/2015 9:05:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You're... longing for that time?
It was absolutely horrible.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
thett3
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1/28/2015 9:06:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:58:14 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:54:24 PM, thett3 wrote:

Fair points. If you could revert an aspect of American culture to an earlier version, what aspect would that be?

It's hard to say because so much of American history especially is painted in incredibly rose colored glasses, but so many things come to mind. I've changed my answer about a dozen times while typing this, but I think one of the biggest issues is how we're raising our kids. The old days of kids playing outside until sundown returning only for dinner are completely gone, at least for middle class white people (the only kids I really see, lol...)--even comparing *my* childhood with how I see kids being raised now it's so different I can't help but think I'm making it up or leaving out significant parts but I know I'm not.

Our child rearing ways are something I'd like to write something about one day, but it's hard for me to put these things into words. Everything in this article, really: http://aeon.co...
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
carriead20
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1/28/2015 9:14:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:04:34 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I really like Paula Cole's song by this name; besides the fact that it's an incredible piece of music, it is equally incredible in its sociological inquiry.

In modern times, we have resigned ourselves to laying on sofas in front of electrical contraptions meant not only to indulge us when we are relaxing, but also to replace our productive lives. Our bodies are weaker and fatter than ever before. We are incredibly inept to the point where we can perform maintenance tasks on almost nothing we own. We no longer understand the land and its flora and fauna; the animals we do keep are just as fat and confused as we are, locked behind fences like abused children unable to do more than bark autistically at passing shapes in the street. Our sense of morality is all but dried-up, as laws and protocol of business replace all we have to think about. We know not of our neighbors, nor do we invest much time or effort to help them or cooperate with them in any way. We are a defeated people, malignant and dying as a culture and a nation.

There was a time when we were a proud people; when our virtues and morals were something to marvel at. A time when a man could live off the land by his natural knowledge, raise a family to help the world and not hurt it, and die proud that he lived a good life. I'm not sure how one can live a good life any more, there is temptation, ease, and vice at every turn and we assimilate the culture of indulgence and indifference at such a young age. The cowboy is dead, and his honor has died with him. He cannot come back with his Winchester and liberate us from our prisons of concrete; he would need a bullet for every one of us to do that.

I shudder to think what the great thinkers of history would have to say about us, should they see us now. -_-

I am sad to say that this is mostly true. I try to fight it every chance I get but its a dying breed.
To all the people fighting a hard battle out there - life's giving you a pretty hard beating. There's no sugarcoating that, but there's no shadow that's free of light. When life sneers at you and asks, "Ready to go again?" - Raise your hand. Reach out to victory. Don't give in.

---Help Bsh and YYW see each other---
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R0b1Billion
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1/28/2015 9:20:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thett: I'm glad my ideas resonated with you, too many people aren't able to take a step back and look at our culture through an objective lens.

Maik: Yes I'm sure I could give you any date and you'll be able to pull up some sort of detrimental aspect of that time, hell slavery by itself will cover a few centuries for you. Although for slavery sometimes I even ask myself if it was even as bad as things are now... look at the numbers of black people in prison, living in ghettos, unemployed... And then if you look at the lower classes of blacks (which don't fit in these categories) and consider things like drug use, addiction to modern indulgences like junk food, fast food, electronics like video games and TV, obesity, dependence on welfare and other assistance, the degrading culture of hip-hop (primarily towards women), illegitimate children/neglect/abuse... At least blacks that were slaves had their pride. They didn't have their freedom, but they had their pride. They were hard working and they could sleep at night knowing they were good people. I'd rather be a slave and have my work, able to die with dignity than have to deal with what I see modern blacks dealing with, caught up in this culture of money and selfishness and wrapped up in it worse than average whites because they exist at the margins and are more vulnerable to it. Every time you see a black guy on TV with gold teeth in his mouth holding a roll of hundreds, realize that his culture is suffering much worse than ours is. And if people like him are better than slaves, then it ain't by much.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
thett3
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1/28/2015 9:28:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:58:14 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:54:24 PM, thett3 wrote:

Fair points. If you could revert an aspect of American culture to an earlier version, what aspect would that be?

Really there was a lot that was simpler back then, even if it was harder.

The ironic thing is, to get back to that simple life you often have to work hard. I have no greater dream than to live on my own land in the countryside with my family. That's basically all I want in life--but to get it, I'm going to have to throw myself first into the soul crushing world of modern capitalism so I can get money to live that way. But it'll be worth it, I know it. I've been saving my money for this dream basically my entire life...

Our world is probably objectively better and especially so for someone like you (forgive me if I'm wrong, but you don't seem to be as much of an old fashioned person as me) but for simple people like me, there's a lot to look back on and admire. And simple doesn't mean dumb, it just means simple.

On top of all that reasonableness, I'm pretty sure it's a fundamental part of the conservative mind to be enticed by the idea of "lost causes" or the old ways. That's basically why I identify as a conservative because of my intense appreciation of the past, even to the point of sugar coating it.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Maikuru
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1/28/2015 9:38:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 9:20:50 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Thett: I'm glad my ideas resonated with you, too many people aren't able to take a step back and look at our culture through an objective lens.

Maik: Yes I'm sure I could give you any date and you'll be able to pull up some sort of detrimental aspect of that time, hell slavery by itself will cover a few centuries for you. Although for slavery sometimes I even ask myself if it was even as bad as things are now... look at the numbers of black people in prison, living in ghettos, unemployed... And then if you look at the lower classes of blacks (which don't fit in these categories) and consider things like drug use, addiction to modern indulgences like junk food, fast food, electronics like video games and TV, obesity, dependence on welfare and other assistance, the degrading culture of hip-hop (primarily towards women), illegitimate children/neglect/abuse... At least blacks that were slaves had their pride. They didn't have their freedom, but they had their pride. They were hard working and they could sleep at night knowing they were good people. I'd rather be a slave and have my work, able to die with dignity than have to deal with what I see modern blacks dealing with, caught up in this culture of money and selfishness and wrapped up in it worse than average whites because they exist at the margins and are more vulnerable to it. Every time you see a black guy on TV with gold teeth in his mouth holding a roll of hundreds, realize that his culture is suffering much worse than ours is. And if people like him are better than slaves, then it ain't by much.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com...
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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Maikuru
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1/28/2015 9:44:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 9:28:37 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:58:14 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:54:24 PM, thett3 wrote:

Fair points. If you could revert an aspect of American culture to an earlier version, what aspect would that be?

Really there was a lot that was simpler back then, even if it was harder.

The ironic thing is, to get back to that simple life you often have to work hard. I have no greater dream than to live on my own land in the countryside with my family. That's basically all I want in life--but to get it, I'm going to have to throw myself first into the soul crushing world of modern capitalism so I can get money to live that way. But it'll be worth it, I know it. I've been saving my money for this dream basically my entire life...

Our world is probably objectively better and especially so for someone like you (forgive me if I'm wrong, but you don't seem to be as much of an old fashioned person as me) but for simple people like me, there's a lot to look back on and admire. And simple doesn't mean dumb, it just means simple.

On top of all that reasonableness, I'm pretty sure it's a fundamental part of the conservative mind to be enticed by the idea of "lost causes" or the old ways. That's basically why I identify as a conservative because of my intense appreciation of the past, even to the point of sugar coating it.

You're right in that I am not as old fashioned in this sense. I very much appreciate the modern amenities, social liberties, and (comparatively more equitable) labor distribution of today. I do understand the feelings of nostalgia for the past and the desire to be a self-sufficient person, but the concept of any substantial societal return to form is the most terrifying idea in the world to me lol. Call it the minority in me, but I would never go back, not even to yesterday haha
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
thett3
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1/28/2015 9:46:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 9:44:17 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 9:28:37 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:58:14 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 8:54:24 PM, thett3 wrote:

Fair points. If you could revert an aspect of American culture to an earlier version, what aspect would that be?

Really there was a lot that was simpler back then, even if it was harder.

The ironic thing is, to get back to that simple life you often have to work hard. I have no greater dream than to live on my own land in the countryside with my family. That's basically all I want in life--but to get it, I'm going to have to throw myself first into the soul crushing world of modern capitalism so I can get money to live that way. But it'll be worth it, I know it. I've been saving my money for this dream basically my entire life...

Our world is probably objectively better and especially so for someone like you (forgive me if I'm wrong, but you don't seem to be as much of an old fashioned person as me) but for simple people like me, there's a lot to look back on and admire. And simple doesn't mean dumb, it just means simple.

On top of all that reasonableness, I'm pretty sure it's a fundamental part of the conservative mind to be enticed by the idea of "lost causes" or the old ways. That's basically why I identify as a conservative because of my intense appreciation of the past, even to the point of sugar coating it.

You're right in that I am not as old fashioned in this sense. I very much appreciate the modern amenities, social liberties, and (comparatively more equitable) labor distribution of today. I do understand the feelings of nostalgia for the past and the desire to be a self-sufficient person, but the concept of any substantial societal return to form is the most terrifying idea in the world to me lol. Call it the minority in me, but I would never go back, not even to yesterday haha

http://i.imgur.com...

It also skips the best part. "Yeah but if you were a straight white male, you couldn't have a bad day" haha
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Maikuru
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1/28/2015 9:50:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 9:46:44 PM, thett3 wrote:

http://i.imgur.com...

It also skips the best part. "Yeah but if you were a straight white male, you couldn't have a bad day" haha

lol that's why Jay is my favorite. Louis CK has a killer bit on going back in time.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
thett3
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1/28/2015 9:54:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 9:50:13 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/28/2015 9:46:44 PM, thett3 wrote:

http://i.imgur.com...

It also skips the best part. "Yeah but if you were a straight white male, you couldn't have a bad day" haha

lol that's why Jay is my favorite. Louis CK has a killer bit on going back in time.



Lol, that's hilarious.

And he's right. Despite the progress we've made in terms of not being a society of racist f*cks, I wouldn't trade being a white male for anything
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
FaustianJustice
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1/28/2015 11:25:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

My father likes to talk about how, up until a few hundred years ago or so, our way of life was infinitely sustainable. Now look at us, scrabbling for dwindling resources that also happen to destroy the environment, and for what? We've gained material wealth, but lost our minds and souls.

It's easy to have nostalgia for a time we didn't live through lol. In fact, there is no better time to be alive than today.

I agree but that doesn't mean there aren't lessons to be taken from the past. If there was a time machine to take me back to the 1700s, I'd have to be taken back kicking and screaming--however there are certain societal advantages that existed then that don't exist now which could help us make a better world. I don't think we can dismiss the lessons of the past just because today is arguably better.

Yeah, I agree. I do believe there are some lessons we can learn from the past, so long as we do so in context. For example, the past may seem more sustainable, but that wasn't for a lack of trying on their part. Differences in consumption and waste production are largely a matter of their comparatively smaller population and lesser resource harvesting techniques. I don't think human nature has transformed so much as human capability, though I'm sure you could say the process is cyclical and self-perpetuating.

Oh, I didn't mean that we've necessarily started being wasteful and environmentally destructive because of some change in our nature. A lot of it is just like you said, different access to resources--but that doesn't mean it isn't something to be upset about. Although, many older worldviews held the Earth itself to be sacred. Most of those were stamped out by more organized religions long before industrialization, but I wonder what they would've thought about it.

I think it's hard to deny that we've become extremely inept in many ways, in the United States at least. I doubt many of us can live up the examples of our grandfathers when it comes to basic, useful knowledge like how to fix cars or build things. The entire "Do It Yourself" ethic has completely declined--like Rob said, we can do basic maintenance on basically nothing...people pay like $40 for something as simple as an oil change.

Build things, sure. Anyone can hit up Home Depot, grab some tools and blunder their way through the first few projects until they get the hang of it. Cars, on the other hand... that 40 bucks worth of oil change gets me a tire rotation, check on all the fluids, general diagnostic on some other parts that might need replacement soon, etc. Were I to not spend that 40 bucks, that would be me killing the better part of an afternoon to accomplish all those things, assuming I had the tools that might be proprietary to my vehicle. Money well spent when I look at it on "what is my time worth" sort of manner. Sure, I feel a bit sore about not specifically knowing the ins and outs, but cars are not exactly the 100% mechanized thing they used to be.

Now on the flipside, what my Gran' Ps think should be taken to the Geek Squad, or replaced, I am abel to fix, restore, repurpose, or revitalize. That, or strip for parts to recycle shoud the situation be dire.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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intellectuallyprimitive
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1/29/2015 2:48:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 9:20:50 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Thett: I'm glad my ideas resonated with you, too many people aren't able to take a step back and look at our culture through an objective lens.

Maik: Yes I'm sure I could give you any date and you'll be able to pull up some sort of detrimental aspect of that time, hell slavery by itself will cover a few centuries for you. Although for slavery sometimes I even ask myself if it was even as bad as things are now... look at the numbers of black people in prison, living in ghettos, unemployed... And then if you look at the lower classes of blacks (which don't fit in these categories) and consider things like drug use, addiction to modern indulgences like junk food, fast food, electronics like video games and TV, obesity, dependence on welfare and other assistance, the degrading culture of hip-hop (primarily towards women), illegitimate children/neglect/abuse... At least blacks that were slaves had their pride. They didn't have their freedom, but they had their pride. They were hard working and they could sleep at night knowing they were good people. I'd rather be a slave and have my work, able to die with dignity than have to deal with what I see modern blacks dealing with, caught up in this culture of money and selfishness and wrapped up in it worse than average whites because they exist at the margins and are more vulnerable to it. Every time you see a black guy on TV with gold teeth in his mouth holding a roll of hundreds, realize that his culture is suffering much worse than ours is. And if people like him are better than slaves, then it ain't by much.

Pride supersedes the ability to consent? This is the premise I have derived from the context you have provided.

All of those downtrodden people you have mentioned had the ability to consent and did so with accountable repercussions, meaning the individuals who elected to partake in the crime, gluttonous consumption, and other various hedonistic desires, are accountable for such actions. Slaves were given no opportunity to consent to their commitment to work, hence the label "slave".

Pride is a commendable attribute humans possess, but does not surpass the ability to employ individual choices, in my opinion.
clearcrystal76
Posts: 284
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1/29/2015 11:00:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:04:34 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I really like Paula Cole's song by this name; besides the fact that it's an incredible piece of music, it is equally incredible in its sociological inquiry.

In modern times, we have resigned ourselves to laying on sofas in front of electrical contraptions meant not only to indulge us when we are relaxing, but also to replace our productive lives. Our bodies are weaker and fatter than ever before. We are incredibly inept to the point where we can perform maintenance tasks on almost nothing we own. We no longer understand the land and its flora and fauna; the animals we do keep are just as fat and confused as we are, locked behind fences like abused children unable to do more than bark autistically at passing shapes in the street. Our sense of morality is all but dried-up, as laws and protocol of business replace all we have to think about. We know not of our neighbors, nor do we invest much time or effort to help them or cooperate with them in any way. We are a defeated people, malignant and dying as a culture and a nation.

There was a time when we were a proud people; when our virtues and morals were something to marvel at. A time when a man could live off the land by his natural knowledge, raise a family to help the world and not hurt it, and die proud that he lived a good life. I'm not sure how one can live a good life any more, there is temptation, ease, and vice at every turn and we assimilate the culture of indulgence and indifference at such a young age. The cowboy is dead, and his honor has died with him. He cannot come back with his Winchester and liberate us from our prisons of concrete; he would need a bullet for every one of us to do that.

I shudder to think what the great thinkers of history would have to say about us, should they see us now. -_-

You must not be from the deep south as I am.
I live by farms and cows(mostly chickens though because I live in deep south Arkansas) and I help my neighbors farm his crops, break his horses, herd his cattle, and protect his land from coyotes.

Down here we live from the sweat of our back and the bounty of our harvest.

I've lived in rural areas and have found it nothing but a hassle. sure most cant or wont live the way we do but someone's gotta do it to but food on tables.

We live by the country way AND AM DAMN PROUD OF IT!
Otokage
Posts: 2,351
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1/29/2015 12:04:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:04:34 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I really like Paula Cole's song by this name; besides the fact that it's an incredible piece of music, it is equally incredible in its sociological inquiry.

In modern times, we have resigned ourselves to laying on sofas in front of electrical contraptions meant not only to indulge us when we are relaxing, but also to replace our productive lives. Our bodies are weaker and fatter than ever before. We are incredibly inept to the point where we can perform maintenance tasks on almost nothing we own. We no longer understand the land and its flora and fauna; the animals we do keep are just as fat and confused as we are, locked behind fences like abused children unable to do more than bark autistically at passing shapes in the street. Our sense of morality is all but dried-up, as laws and protocol of business replace all we have to think about. We know not of our neighbors, nor do we invest much time or effort to help them or cooperate with them in any way. We are a defeated people, malignant and dying as a culture and a nation.

There was a time when we were a proud people; when our virtues and morals were something to marvel at. A time when a man could live off the land by his natural knowledge, raise a family to help the world and not hurt it, and die proud that he lived a good life. I'm not sure how one can live a good life any more, there is temptation, ease, and vice at every turn and we assimilate the culture of indulgence and indifference at such a young age. The cowboy is dead, and his honor has died with him. He cannot come back with his Winchester and liberate us from our prisons of concrete; he would need a bullet for every one of us to do that.

I shudder to think what the great thinkers of history would have to say about us, should they see us now. -_-

I totally agree. This combination of sedentarism and cybernetics is one of the worst diseases of the Western world, where obesity, depression and stress are already seen as a regular thing in the population. It also alienate us from the natural world, which results in us not caring about destroying it and thereby about destroying ourselves. We are surely in the era of stupidity.
thett3
Posts: 14,360
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1/29/2015 2:07:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:25:48 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

My father likes to talk about how, up until a few hundred years ago or so, our way of life was infinitely sustainable. Now look at us, scrabbling for dwindling resources that also happen to destroy the environment, and for what? We've gained material wealth, but lost our minds and souls.

It's easy to have nostalgia for a time we didn't live through lol. In fact, there is no better time to be alive than today.

I agree but that doesn't mean there aren't lessons to be taken from the past. If there was a time machine to take me back to the 1700s, I'd have to be taken back kicking and screaming--however there are certain societal advantages that existed then that don't exist now which could help us make a better world. I don't think we can dismiss the lessons of the past just because today is arguably better.

Yeah, I agree. I do believe there are some lessons we can learn from the past, so long as we do so in context. For example, the past may seem more sustainable, but that wasn't for a lack of trying on their part. Differences in consumption and waste production are largely a matter of their comparatively smaller population and lesser resource harvesting techniques. I don't think human nature has transformed so much as human capability, though I'm sure you could say the process is cyclical and self-perpetuating.

Oh, I didn't mean that we've necessarily started being wasteful and environmentally destructive because of some change in our nature. A lot of it is just like you said, different access to resources--but that doesn't mean it isn't something to be upset about. Although, many older worldviews held the Earth itself to be sacred. Most of those were stamped out by more organized religions long before industrialization, but I wonder what they would've thought about it.

I think it's hard to deny that we've become extremely inept in many ways, in the United States at least. I doubt many of us can live up the examples of our grandfathers when it comes to basic, useful knowledge like how to fix cars or build things. The entire "Do It Yourself" ethic has completely declined--like Rob said, we can do basic maintenance on basically nothing...people pay like $40 for something as simple as an oil change.

Build things, sure. Anyone can hit up Home Depot, grab some tools and blunder their way through the first few projects until they get the hang of it. Cars, on the other hand... that 40 bucks worth of oil change gets me a tire rotation, check on all the fluids, general diagnostic on some other parts that might need replacement soon, etc. Were I to not spend that 40 bucks, that would be me killing the better part of an afternoon to accomplish all those things, assuming I had the tools that might be proprietary to my vehicle. Money well spent when I look at it on "what is my time worth" sort of manner. Sure, I feel a bit sore about not specifically knowing the ins and outs, but cars are not exactly the 100% mechanized thing they used to be.

Haha I don't think you have any idea how much mechanics gouge you on many things.

I see your point, though. If you're busy doing stuff with your life and don't have the time...I get it. But what excuse do all the people who sit around and watch TV instead have?

Now on the flipside, what my Gran' Ps think should be taken to the Geek Squad, or replaced, I am abel to fix, restore, repurpose, or revitalize. That, or strip for parts to recycle shoud the situation be dire.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Wylted
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1/29/2015 2:26:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:23:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree with everything in this thread. It's something I've been thinking about a lot, lately.

My father likes to talk about how, up until a few hundred years ago or so, our way of life was infinitely sustainable. Now look at us, scrabbling for dwindling resources that also happen to destroy the environment, and for what? We've gained material wealth, but lost our minds and souls.

It's good that resources are dwindling. It helps to cull the herd.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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1/29/2015 4:17:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
+1 for a great topic/thread

However, no offense Rob, but I find your OP to be mostly rhetoric. For instance, you talk about our lives no longer being productive, but the only reasoning you seem to have for this is that we don't fix things ourselves anymore. How specifically are we less productive than we used to be? In fact, how are you even defining productivity?

I'm also not seeing why understanding the "flora and fauna" of the land is a big deal.

And the lines about our washed-up morality, lack of communication with neighbors, and the claim of our "dying" culture also seem to just be rhetoric with no real proof or explanation of these things behind them.

So I'd just like some clarification on these things so I can better understand what you're saying. How is our sense of morality dried-up? Why is understanding the land more important than understanding something else? How do you know that nobody talks to their neighbors, and why is this a big deal? How exactly are "electrical contraption" replacing our productive lives?

For the record, I don't think any aspect of "culture" thats existed in the past is either better or worse than any aspect now (other than obvious things like slavery). For instance, I think you'd have a hard time proving that fixing your own car has more objective worth than paying for a repair. It also seems hard to argue that playing outside is objectively "better" than playing on a game system. What forms of entertainment an individual enjoys is about as subjective as it gets.
R0b1Billion
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1/29/2015 6:25:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:31:45 PM, Maikuru wrote:

I have a few thoughts on this, but I have some foundational questions first. What time in history are you referring to, exactly, and in what regions? What demographics of people are you referencing, also? Lastly, where are you drawing your information from concerning the virtues, morals, pride, and temptations (or lack thereof) of that era?

I just see a steady decline as time goes on. Now is worse than ten years ago in many ways, worse than 20, 50, 100, 200... America, everyone. I'm drawing my information from seeing "The Rifleman" in black and white on TV, and wondering why things can't be as glorious as they were in those days ;)
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
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1/29/2015 6:28:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 8:38:41 PM, thett3 wrote:

I agree but that doesn't mean there aren't lessons to be taken from the past. If there was a time machine to take me back to the 1700s, I'd have to be taken back kicking and screaming--however there are certain societal advantages that existed then that don't exist now which could help us make a better world. I don't think we can dismiss the lessons of the past just because today is arguably better.

They didn't have the comforts we have today. But those comforts weaken us. It's sort of like a crack-head being denied the drug. At first it is ultimately unpleasant, but it is understood that the best interests are being served in the long run.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/29/2015 6:34:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 9:05:03 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
You're... longing for that time?
It was absolutely horrible.

Yes I realize people who didn't have smartphones are barbaric... without your gadgetry you would lose all hope in life.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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1/29/2015 6:35:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 6:34:55 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/28/2015 9:05:03 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
You're... longing for that time?
It was absolutely horrible.

Yes I realize people who didn't have smartphones are barbaric... without your gadgetry you would lose all hope in life.

1. I do not own a smartphone
2. I base that off tales from my family's diaries
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW