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Stupidest Thing That Feminists Believe

jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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1/29/2015 2:21:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

Why would anyone consider "all" rape to be an act induced from a power desire?
I can postulate that rape is an act committed due to sexual urges or propensities, but suggesting that a majority of rapes is an act to acquire power or demonstrate power, seems farfetched. However, this does not exclude certain scenarios that rape may be committed to due to a power enforcement, such as prison.

Sexual tendencies are far more pervasive than dominance or superiority characteristics. This may explain why the former accounts for sexual assaults more so than the latter. Albeit, it may be argued that certain characteristics of sexual urges may be considered to influence dominant behavior. Nonetheless, it would appear that innate sexual tendencies drive rape perpetrations.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/29/2015 3:37:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 2:21:06 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

Why would anyone consider "all" rape to be an act induced from a power desire?

It's to do with what "about" means. For example I could say that DDO is about debating, or Is could say it's about learning to argue or it's about US teenagers socializing. "About" means the defining aspect.

Most sex is not rape so to say that rape is "about sex" is misleading because the critical and defining element is not sex but abuse. There's a myth that when men want sex badly enough they'll rape someone, and that rapists are just responding to a strong sexual urge, but we know that's not true. The consequences of that sort of thinking are pernicious: that the sexiest, most provocative people get raped, and that it can be avoided by dressing in dowdy clothes and not flicking your hair. But no, that's not what's going on. You can't avoid rape by doing those things. Rapists enjoy raping because of the power interaction, and the cast majority of men are not rapists no matter how sexually aroused they may get.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/29/2015 7:11:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 3:37:26 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 2:21:06 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
Rapists enjoy raping because of the power interaction, and the [vast] majority of men are not rapists no matter how sexually aroused they may get.

So do you still believe that men enjoy watching rape?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/29/2015 8:17:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 3:37:26 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 2:21:06 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

Why would anyone consider "all" rape to be an act induced from a power desire?

It's to do with what "about" means. For example I could say that DDO is about debating, or Is could say it's about learning to argue or it's about US teenagers socializing. "About" means the defining aspect.
It also depends on what rape means.
Having a few drinks is not the same as holding someone at gunpoint, and neither are the same as consensual sex with an age difference. All are considered rape, and only one is about power.

Most sex is not rape so to say that rape is "about sex" is misleading because the critical and defining element is not sex but abuse. There's a myth that when men want sex badly enough they'll rape someone, and that rapists are just responding to a strong sexual urge, but we know that's not true. The consequences of that sort of thinking are pernicious: that the sexiest, most provocative people get raped, and that it can be avoided by dressing in dowdy clothes and not flicking your hair. But no, that's not what's going on. You can't avoid rape by doing those things. Rapists enjoy raping because of the power interaction, and the cast majority of men are not rapists no matter how sexually aroused they may get.

I don't see why "when men want sex badly enough they'll rape someone" implies that only provocative women are raped. That statement implies the first woman in sight (or first opportunity) would be.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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1/29/2015 8:30:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 3:37:26 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 2:21:06 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

Why would anyone consider "all" rape to be an act induced from a power desire?

It's to do with what "about" means. For example I could say that DDO is about debating, or Is could say it's about learning to argue or it's about US teenagers socializing. "About" means the defining aspect.

Most sex is not rape so to say that rape is "about sex" is misleading because the critical and defining element is not sex but abuse. There's a myth that when men want sex badly enough they'll rape someone, and that rapists are just responding to a strong sexual urge, but we know that's not true. The consequences of that sort of thinking are pernicious: that the sexiest, most provocative people get raped, and that it can be avoided by dressing in dowdy clothes and not flicking your hair. But no, that's not what's going on. You can't avoid rape by doing those things. Rapists enjoy raping because of the power interaction, and the cast majority of men are not rapists no matter how sexually aroused they may get.

This is just wrong. In fact, women of reproductive age are most likely to get raped. What you are committing is the naturalistic fallacy.

You think the implications of rape not being about power are undesirable, so you assume that it is. But, that is not sound reasoning. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that, yes, rape is about sex. For instance, women at their reproductive prime are, by far, most likely to be raped. This would only make sense if rape was about sex and not power.

At the same time, if rape was about power we would expect the most powerful men to rape the most. But, in fact, the opposite is true. The men who rape the most are the most sex starved. Men who are hornier than usual but also lack the means to get sex.

Yes, this does mean that women can reduce their chance of being raped by not dressing provocatively. Like it or not, women's behavior and choices does impact their chances of being victimized by rape. This doesn't amount to blaming the victim so much as it does to "knowing the facts".
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/29/2015 8:47:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 8:30:27 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 3:37:26 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 2:21:06 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

Why would anyone consider "all" rape to be an act induced from a power desire?

It's to do with what "about" means. For example I could say that DDO is about debating, or Is could say it's about learning to argue or it's about US teenagers socializing. "About" means the defining aspect.

Most sex is not rape so to say that rape is "about sex" is misleading because the critical and defining element is not sex but abuse. There's a myth that when men want sex badly enough they'll rape someone, and that rapists are just responding to a strong sexual urge, but we know that's not true. The consequences of that sort of thinking are pernicious: that the sexiest, most provocative people get raped, and that it can be avoided by dressing in dowdy clothes and not flicking your hair. But no, that's not what's going on. You can't avoid rape by doing those things. Rapists enjoy raping because of the power interaction, and the cast majority of men are not rapists no matter how sexually aroused they may get.


This is just wrong. In fact, women of reproductive age are most likely to get raped. What you are committing is the naturalistic fallacy.
Raped by whom?

You think the implications of rape not being about power are undesirable, so you assume that it is. But, that is not sound reasoning. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that, yes, rape is about sex. For instance, women at their reproductive prime are, by far, most likely to be raped. This would only make sense if rape was about sex and not power.
Are not these women also generally the most vulnerable?

At the same time, if rape was about power we would expect the most powerful men to rape the most. But, in fact, the opposite is true. The men who rape the most are the most sex starved. Men who are hornier than usual but also lack the means to get sex.

Now that is an odd statement.
Why would we assume that powerful men would rape the most? Perhaps they can control themselves, which is why they are powerful.
Also, there are plenty of examples that show powerful men rape, seemingly the most, like bosses, teachers, etc.

Yes, this does mean that women can reduce their chance of being raped by not dressing provocatively. Like it or not, women's behavior and choices does impact their chances of being victimized by rape. This doesn't amount to blaming the victim so much as it does to "knowing the facts".

It would reduce the chances if the rapist is known to the victim, yes.
Do you not agree that some men get off on the power differential of rape?
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/29/2015 11:12:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 7:11:18 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/29/2015 3:37:26 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 2:21:06 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
Rapists enjoy raping because of the power interaction, and the [vast] majority of men are not rapists no matter how sexually aroused they may get.

So do you still believe that men enjoy watching rape?

Do you like Game of Thrones? (rhetorical question)
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/29/2015 11:31:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 8:30:27 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:

I was going to reply but then I lost interest. Idk why. It's been happening to me a lot lately. It just seems like such a chore to communicate with people. Like, what's the point? Maybe I'm depressed or something.

Anyway. There's lots of stats on rape victims (most raped by intimate partners etc.) . You should look all that stuff up. Be informed. Or not. Whichever suits you better.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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1/29/2015 11:54:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

I believe that is not stupid. Imo rape is so exciting for rapists because they get excited with sexual domination, which has a lot to do both with power and sex.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/29/2015 11:56:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 11:12:23 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 7:11:18 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/29/2015 3:37:26 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 2:21:06 AM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
Rapists enjoy raping because of the power interaction, and the [vast] majority of men are not rapists no matter how sexually aroused they may get.

So do you still believe that men enjoy watching rape?

Do you like Game of Thrones? (rhetorical question)

I do enjoy Game of Thrones, and I do not see how that has anything to do with my question.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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1/29/2015 12:49:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 11:31:11 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 8:30:27 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:

I was going to reply but then I lost interest. Idk why. It's been happening to me a lot lately. It just seems like such a chore to communicate with people. Like, what's the point? Maybe I'm depressed or something.

Anyway. There's lots of stats on rape victims (most raped by intimate partners etc.) . You should look all that stuff up. Be informed. Or not. Whichever suits you better.

I am informed sir. Rape is almost always about horny guys who can't get sex using violence to get some. Power really isn't part of it.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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1/29/2015 12:49:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 11:54:33 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

I believe that is not stupid. Imo rape is so exciting for rapists because they get excited with sexual domination, which has a lot to do both with power and sex.

No. Where is your evidence for this?
Df0512
Posts: 966
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1/29/2015 1:01:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 12:49:15 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 11:31:11 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 8:30:27 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:

I was going to reply but then I lost interest. Idk why. It's been happening to me a lot lately. It just seems like such a chore to communicate with people. Like, what's the point? Maybe I'm depressed or something.

Anyway. There's lots of stats on rape victims (most raped by intimate partners etc.) . You should look all that stuff up. Be informed. Or not. Whichever suits you better.

I am informed sir. Rape is almost always about horny guys who can't get sex using violence to get some. Power really isn't part of it.

I don't think either of you are wrong. I think we can easily agree that some rapist are just horny and some are into the power aspect of it. Think about BDSM. Some people like being in control. To them that is sexy.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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1/29/2015 1:08:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 1:01:34 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 12:49:15 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 11:31:11 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 8:30:27 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:

I was going to reply but then I lost interest. Idk why. It's been happening to me a lot lately. It just seems like such a chore to communicate with people. Like, what's the point? Maybe I'm depressed or something.

Anyway. There's lots of stats on rape victims (most raped by intimate partners etc.) . You should look all that stuff up. Be informed. Or not. Whichever suits you better.

I am informed sir. Rape is almost always about horny guys who can't get sex using violence to get some. Power really isn't part of it.

I don't think either of you are wrong. I think we can easily agree that some rapist are just horny and some are into the power aspect of it. Think about BDSM. Some people like being in control. To them that is sexy.

Some yes. But, as a whole, rape is overwhelmingly more motivated by sexual desire than power.
PetersSmith
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1/29/2015 1:32:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

You shouldn't generalize people.
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Df0512
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1/29/2015 3:41:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 1:08:32 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 1:01:34 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 12:49:15 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 11:31:11 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/29/2015 8:30:27 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:

I was going to reply but then I lost interest. Idk why. It's been happening to me a lot lately. It just seems like such a chore to communicate with people. Like, what's the point? Maybe I'm depressed or something.

Anyway. There's lots of stats on rape victims (most raped by intimate partners etc.) . You should look all that stuff up. Be informed. Or not. Whichever suits you better.

I am informed sir. Rape is almost always about horny guys who can't get sex using violence to get some. Power really isn't part of it.

I don't think either of you are wrong. I think we can easily agree that some rapist are just horny and some are into the power aspect of it. Think about BDSM. Some people like being in control. To them that is sexy.

Some yes. But, as a whole, rape is overwhelmingly more motivated by sexual desire than power.

All rape is motivated by sexual desire. I don't believe people would usually turn to rape if they only want to feel powerful. Maybe they have a sexual desire to be be dominant and feel powerful. But I think rape is inherently about power. Sex is mutual. Rape is not. You have to over power the victim to rape them. No one would rape a person if they were not able to "finish" while over powering them. I couldn't, if I was making some one have sex with me. So in a very twisted way it is about power.
kasmic
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1/29/2015 4:02:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Aside from equality of the sexes, I am not sure there is anything that ALL feminist believe. This is quite the invitation to commit the stawman fallacy... This thread is entirely based on the Stereotyping fallacy.

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Wylted
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1/29/2015 4:04:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

If that were true than why is castration so ineffective at stopping it?
kasmic
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1/29/2015 4:05:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 4:02:38 PM, kasmic wrote:
Aside from equality of the sexes, I am not sure there is anything that ALL feminist believe. This is quite the invitation to commit the stawman fallacy... This thread is entirely based on the Stereotyping fallacy.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...

Title also hints as a "Loaded Question."

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...
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"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

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jimtimmy4
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1/29/2015 4:15:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 4:04:24 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

If that were true than why is castration so ineffective at stopping it?

Where is your evidence for that claim?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/29/2015 4:29:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 4:15:42 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 4:04:24 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

If that were true than why is castration so ineffective at stopping it?

Where is your evidence for that claim?

I heard some random dude say it one time and assumed it's true.
kasmic
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1/29/2015 4:30:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

I keep thinking I wont respond anymore to this thread but...

Both the straw man position provided and Jimtimmy's "It's about sex" are examples of the Single cause fallacy. I wonder if a reasonable conversation can be had when someone uses so many logical fallacies.

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Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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1/29/2015 4:41:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 12:49:45 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 1/29/2015 11:54:33 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:36:00 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

I believe that is not stupid. Imo rape is so exciting for rapists because they get excited with sexual domination, which has a lot to do both with power and sex.

No. Where is your evidence for this?

It has always been my impression. Also if you put "rape domination" in google academic, you find plenty of articles speaking about this, although it seems a very difficult thing to evaluate. There's also a book called "Rape in Marriage" of Russell, that apparently claims a lot of husbands would prefer to rape their wifes rather than to have consensual sex.

On the other hand you claim rape has to do only with sex, but I can't find anything suggesting this. Can you?
bluemiles
Posts: 14
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1/29/2015 5:05:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Stupidest Stereotype That People Believe About Feminists

I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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1/29/2015 8:03:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 5:05:47 PM, bluemiles wrote:
Stupidest Stereotype That People Believe About Feminists

I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

What an empty refutation. I've heard what Jim said recounted by dozens of women (and a couple of men trying to be women) irl. How about you make a worthwhile comment instead of a drive-by snark?
kasmic
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1/29/2015 9:09:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 8:03:39 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 1/29/2015 5:05:47 PM, bluemiles wrote:
Stupidest Stereotype That People Believe About Feminists

I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

What an empty refutation. I've heard what Jim said recounted by dozens of women (and a couple of men trying to be women) irl. How about you make a worthwhile comment instead of a drive-by snark?

Thank goodness. Amongst all the fallacies now we have blue miles ad hom.... And zarorete's appeal of authority. I swear I have never seen so many fallacies in such a small amount of text.

To be fair I haven't ever gone to Fox News.com
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Zarroette
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1/29/2015 9:13:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 9:09:55 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 1/29/2015 8:03:39 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 1/29/2015 5:05:47 PM, bluemiles wrote:
Stupidest Stereotype That People Believe About Feminists

I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

What an empty refutation. I've heard what Jim said recounted by dozens of women (and a couple of men trying to be women) irl. How about you make a worthwhile comment instead of a drive-by snark?

Thank goodness. Amongst all the fallacies now we have blue miles ad hom....

And zarorete's appeal of authority.

Firstly, has your special education class not gone through the 'how to spell your name' lesson? Look at my name. It's literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, AND YOU ****STILL**** GET IT WRONG!!!!!

Ergh, anyway, secondly, I never appealed to authority. I merely stated that his refutation was empty, and that I have experienced what he claims to have never happened irl. I never said my evidence was conclusive. I never said that my argument was final. I merely presented my experiences.

I swear I have never seen so many fallacies in such a small amount of text.

To be fair I haven't ever gone to Fox News.com
kasmic
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1/29/2015 9:29:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/29/2015 9:13:55 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 1/29/2015 9:09:55 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 1/29/2015 8:03:39 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 1/29/2015 5:05:47 PM, bluemiles wrote:
Stupidest Stereotype That People Believe About Feminists

I'd like to hear proposals. Mine is this:

Feminists have the stupid belief that rape is about power and not sex (it's about sex).

What an empty refutation. I've heard what Jim said recounted by dozens of women (and a couple of men trying to be women) irl. How about you make a worthwhile comment instead of a drive-by snark?

Thank goodness. Amongst all the fallacies now we have blue miles ad hom....

And zarorete's appeal of authority.

Firstly, has your special education class not gone through the 'how to spell your name' lesson? Look at my name. It's literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, AND YOU ****STILL**** GET IT WRONG!!!!!

Ergh, anyway, secondly, I never appealed to authority. I merely stated that his refutation was empty, and that I have experienced what he claims to have never happened irl. I never said my evidence was conclusive. I never said that my argument was final. I merely presented my experiences.

I swear I have never seen so many fallacies in such a small amount of text.

To be fair I haven't ever gone to Fox News.com

I am sorry I mispelled your name. I confess spelling to be the Bain of my life. I did not intend that to offend you.

i almost never... Never say "my argument is final." So are you implying that you are not validating jim's claim with your personal experience, which can't be verified. If so, that is an appeal to authority, if not, not sure what the purpose of your claim is.
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