Total Posts:23|Showing Posts:1-23
Jump to topic:

Psychological Effects of [Warning: taboo]

AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/30/2015 7:18:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Why would findings any such research prove your points if he's already said they won't be allowed to conceive?
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/30/2015 7:32:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
He already said they should take precautions, so what do you need these findings?
The issue is, there shouldn't be those kids.
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 3:14:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/30/2015 7:32:20 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
He already said they should take precautions, so what do you need these findings?
The issue is, there shouldn't be those kids.

I agree there shouldn't. But since we all know conception can occur even if you've taken precautions, I don't see how that issue can be ever be completely avoided without government-mandated sterilization of first-degree incestuous couples, which obviously is something that could never be constitutional. And what happens if a child is conceived anyway, is born disabled, and now the parents want to apply for Medicare? All I see is publicly-funded assistance for a situation that never should have been in the first place. The issues don't stop just because a couple "takes precautions"
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 3:17:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/30/2015 7:18:44 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Why would findings any such research prove your points if he's already said they won't be allowed to conceive?

It wouldn't, I've already made my point. We've long move past the issue of legal conception and into whether or not an otherwise physically healthy family can or will suffer any long-term psychological issues regarding this family dynamic. And why. And neither of us can find any scholarly articles talking about incest that's not pertaining to childhood sexual abuse. So if anybody knows of any, or knows where to look, we'd be interested in reading it
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 3:51:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/30/2015 7:32:20 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
He already said they should take precautions, so what do you need these findings?
The issue is, there shouldn't be those kids.

I don't see why not. We don't have laws prohibiting people with genetic predispositions to disabling conditions from reproducing. This is just another type.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 10:16:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 3:14:34 AM, AETango wrote:
At 1/30/2015 7:32:20 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
He already said they should take precautions, so what do you need these findings?
The issue is, there shouldn't be those kids.

I agree there shouldn't. But since we all know conception can occur even if you've taken precautions, I don't see how that issue can be ever be completely avoided without government-mandated sterilization of first-degree incestuous couples, which obviously is something that could never be constitutional. And what happens if a child is conceived anyway, is born disabled, and now the parents want to apply for Medicare? All I see is publicly-funded assistance for a situation that never should have been in the first place. The issues don't stop just because a couple "takes precautions"

No, the birth defects don't stop, you right. However, this happens WITHOUT it being legal currently. So, again, if it is going to happen, it doesn't address the issue of marriage, does it?

The argument is: if incestuous couples agree not to have kids, what is the harm? You don't argue with "what happens if the condom breaks". You address the core issue - why is incestuous courtship illegal, and their marriage barred, OUTSIDE of potential birth defects, which occur currently, and can occur outside of these couples.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 10:21:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 3:51:35 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/30/2015 7:32:20 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
He already said they should take precautions, so what do you need these findings?
The issue is, there shouldn't be those kids.

I don't see why not. We don't have laws prohibiting people with genetic predispositions to disabling conditions from reproducing. This is just another type.

The studies he is looking for is to address a "what if" situation of an argument that acknowledges the what if situation should be avoided. Further, the what if situation ALREADY occurs while it is illegal, so the effect of any failures in this argument is a zero effect.
It doesn't address the argument.
At best, the argument is that the effects are so bad, that promoting marriage is too much of a risk over the status quo.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 10:43:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

You haven't taken sterilization into account.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 11:19:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 3:17:08 AM, AETango wrote:
At 1/30/2015 7:18:44 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Why would findings any such research prove your points if he's already said they won't be allowed to conceive?

It wouldn't, I've already made my point. We've long move past the issue of legal conception and into whether or not an otherwise physically healthy family can or will suffer any long-term psychological issues regarding this family dynamic. And why. And neither of us can find any scholarly articles talking about incest that's not pertaining to childhood sexual abuse. So if anybody knows of any, or knows where to look, we'd be interested in reading it

Ah, then in that case, I doubt you'll find much.
If it isn't an issue with minors, adults are probably going to keep it quiet, don't you think?
As far as issues in the family dynamic, I'd largely say they are moot, and wholly depend on situations. Me having a child with my mother is fundamentally different than sleeping with my sister whom I never knew existed (she was given up for adoption).
And, even if there was abuse and awful dynamics, there are plenty of legal ones that are likely just as bad. For example, men who beat their wives.
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 11:40:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 10:16:09 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/31/2015 3:14:34 AM, AETango wrote:
At 1/30/2015 7:32:20 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
He already said they should take precautions, so what do you need these findings?
The issue is, there shouldn't be those kids.

I agree there shouldn't. But since we all know conception can occur even if you've taken precautions, I don't see how that issue can be ever be completely avoided without government-mandated sterilization of first-degree incestuous couples, which obviously is something that could never be constitutional. And what happens if a child is conceived anyway, is born disabled, and now the parents want to apply for Medicare? All I see is publicly-funded assistance for a situation that never should have been in the first place. The issues don't stop just because a couple "takes precautions"

No, the birth defects don't stop, you right. However, this happens WITHOUT it being legal currently. So, again, if it is going to happen, it doesn't address the issue of marriage, does it?

The argument is: if incestuous couples agree not to have kids, what is the harm? You don't argue with "what happens if the condom breaks". You address the core issue - why is incestuous courtship illegal, and their marriage barred, OUTSIDE of potential birth defects, which occur currently, and can occur outside of these couples.

A couple things: incest is legal in some states. So though it is almost universally condemned, it is not nationally illegal. While I agree that other factors of why incest should remain illegal should venture outside of the possibility of the conception of children, I do believe that while there is still a possibility, it can't be swept under the rug and condoned. So long as 2 fertile people are engaging in sex, the possibility of conception is there. Whether they reach an agreement beforehand or not. I also don't do well with hypotheticals, and there can be a hypothetical scenario for any situation for which an outcome can be considered an exception. As it stands, you can't ban a couple from starting a family, as far as I know. So long as the legality of incestuous marriages remains, so do any and all expectations that come with a marriage. I'm also a proponent of banning certain behaviors based on Offense Principle alone. Socioeconomics aside, it boils down to a matter of comfort and preference and I'd much rather live in a society with moral standards than a society where anything goes because, well, why not.

If you put all logistics aside, it comes down to simply a matter of opinion. On those grounds alone I find it repulsive and monumentally offensive, as well as almost everyone else stemming back to the times of Moses. It's a practice that the mere thought of it is enough to give people somewhat of a visceral reaction. When you combine the societal stigma of such behaviors with the possibility of breeding others who are handicapped from such behaviors, that's when you start venturing into the legal theories of harm principles vs offense principles. Which is really be the best summarization of incest laws I've come across.

I hope what I'm saying makes sense, I just got off a 16 hour shift I'm quite tired and about to go to sleep.
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 12:02:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 10:21:27 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/31/2015 3:51:35 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/30/2015 7:32:20 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
He already said they should take precautions, so what do you need these findings?
The issue is, there shouldn't be those kids.

I don't see why not. We don't have laws prohibiting people with genetic predispositions to disabling conditions from reproducing. This is just another type.

The studies he is looking for

She*

is to address a "what if" situation of an argument that acknowledges the what if situation should be avoided.

Incorrect. I've already clarified above that my discussion has moved well past legalization of incestuous marriages being contingent upon having children. The reason I gave details of how my disagreement started in my introduction was so it didn't look like some stranger popped up in here asking random questions about incest without a bit of context. Now it's just a matter of exploring the correlation between children of incest and long term psychological damage, if there is one. And I'm a bit surprised the matter of consensual incest is hardly even spoken of in these articles, they're all about childhood sexual abuse.

Further, the what if situation ALREADY occurs while it is illegal, so the effect of any failures in this argument is a zero effect.
It doesn't address the argument.

The argument is whether there is a correlation between being a child of incest and long-term psychological trauma. So... you're right, it doesn't address the argument.

At best, the argument is that the effects are so bad, that promoting marriage is too much of a risk over the status quo.

And at best, the argument of the opposing side is that it doesn't directly interfere with our lives, so why not.

*"Our" being those of us not involved in incestuous relationships
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 12:06:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 11:19:08 AM, KhaosMage wrote:


Ah, then in that case, I doubt you'll find much.
If it isn't an issue with minors, adults are probably going to keep it quiet, don't you think?
As far as issues in the family dynamic, I'd largely say they are moot, and wholly depend on situations. Me having a child with my mother is fundamentally different than sleeping with my sister whom I never knew existed (she was given up for adoption).

Very true. But both I'd imagine would be pretty traumatic for the average individual. Not to mention the child who is growing up with parents that are also his siblings...

And, even if there was abuse and awful dynamics, there are plenty of legal ones that are likely just as bad. For example, men who beat their wives.

Again I agree, but beating your spouse is, in fact, illegal.
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 12:08:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 10:43:41 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

You haven't taken sterilization into account.

In terms of what? I mentioned it once, in that I was saying that regardless of how many precautions a couple can take, the only way I see the risk of conception not becoming a factor at all is through government-mandated sterilization of first-degree incestuous couples.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 12:55:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It'll probably be hard to find what you're looking for because the social taboo on incest (and the legal one in applicable states) would prevent the parents from coming forward, and the embarressment would stop the children. It'd be great to have a study done on 500 children born from incest and compare them psychologically to 500 "normal" kids, but you'd be hard pressed to even find 50 kids of incest willing to be studied, or even found.

Our of curiosity, whats your personal opinion on consensual incest, if there's a 100% chance that no kids are involved?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 1:09:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

There's a difference between legalizing and decriminalizing. Is this person saying that the government should recognize incestual marriages? Or that simply those who engage in incest should not be punished?
Gustav_Adolf_II
Posts: 80
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 2:22:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any."

I don't know of any studies like this myself, but I would also like to see one if one exists. But off the top of my head (and completely unsupported by evidence) this is what I think it would be like (assuming marriage and intercourse with first-degree family members is legal):

Mark is married to his sister Jenn, there is controversy in their community over this because incest is taboo, most of their family refuses to talk to them and their father has even disowned them. Nine months later, Jenn gives birth to a healthy set of twins conceived through sex with her brother Mark. When news of this reaches their family, some congratulate them, others curse them. Their mother comes to see her new grand-babies, loving them despite being born through incest.

As the babies become young children they find that other kids ostracize them because their parents are siblings, the children go home and ask their parents about their conception (which is followed by a series of serious talks). When the children become teenagers they find that no one wants to 'go out' with them for the same reason no one wanted to play with them when they were kids. This stigma will probably continue through their middle school years. At this point the children may feel some resentment towards their parents for getting married and conceiving them. There would be a good chance, however, that they may be able to break away from their stigma in high school and college through various accomplishments and achievements. And finally, in the adult world, they probably wouldn't have much of a problem getting a job or attracting a partner (as long as the fact that they were born through incest wasn't one of the first things they told a person).

Aside from the obvious discrimination throughout their childhoods, I would have to say that one of two things could happen. 1) the children may be more inclined to 'experiment' with each other because "If mom and dad do it it must be okay" or 2) the children may be even more disgusted by incest than the average person and be less inclined to incest than the average person because of all the trouble it has caused them.

Or at least, that is what I think.
"Quoting yourself only makes you look like an arrogant jerk" - Gustav_Adolf_II
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 6:50:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 12:55:37 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
It'll probably be hard to find what you're looking for because the social taboo on incest (and the legal one in applicable states) would prevent the parents from coming forward, and the embarressment would stop the children. It'd be great to have a study done on 500 children born from incest and compare them psychologically to 500 "normal" kids, but you'd be hard pressed to even find 50 kids of incest willing to be studied, or even found.

Exactly! I agree completely.

Our of curiosity, whats your personal opinion on consensual incest, if there's a 100% chance that no kids are involved?

I'm against it even if no kids would be involved. For a reason none other than I just believe we need some semblance of social standards. If you've ever heard of The Offense Principle, it's exactly that.
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 6:52:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 1:09:47 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

There's a difference between legalizing and decriminalizing. Is this person saying that the government should recognize incestual marriages? Or that simply those who engage in incest should not be punished?

No he thinks incestuous marriage should be recognized as a legitimate union.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 7:20:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 6:52:14 PM, AETango wrote:
At 1/31/2015 1:09:47 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

There's a difference between legalizing and decriminalizing. Is this person saying that the government should recognize incestual marriages? Or that simply those who engage in incest should not be punished?

No he thinks incestuous marriage should be recognized as a legitimate union.

Legitimate as in legal status, like incestuous couples deserve tax break on par with other marriages?? Or does he want it to be equal to others as viewed by culture?
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 7:41:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I can't find them either, and I don't think you will. Just think about this: if you are separated from your brother/sister at young age, and meet him/her as a teen/adult. Do you think you would be immune to sexual atraction? No you wouldn't. This happens a lot with cousins actually. I have a friend married to her cousin and they are regular people that love each other.

I must admit that having a relation with a brother since you were children, and suddenly one day start liking him sexualy as a boyfriend, sounds weird as f*ck. But hey, I don't expect people to think like me and they are doing nothing wrong by loving each other, so I won't judge them.
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/1/2015 6:40:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 7:20:01 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 6:52:14 PM, AETango wrote:
At 1/31/2015 1:09:47 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

There's a difference between legalizing and decriminalizing. Is this person saying that the government should recognize incestual marriages? Or that simply those who engage in incest should not be punished?

No he thinks incestuous marriage should be recognized as a legitimate union.

Legitimate as in legal status, like incestuous couples deserve tax break on par with other marriages?? Or does he want it to be equal to others as viewed by culture?

I didn't ask for details. The way he was advocating for it, he sounds as though he wants them to be able to marry like anybody else, and the stigma removed.
AETango
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/1/2015 6:44:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 7:41:38 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 1/30/2015 12:07:33 AM, AETango wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new here and I joined hoping some like-minded and research savvy individuals could help me out. Just a quick warning: this topic is highly disturbing..

I am engaged in a disagreement with somebody who is an advocate of legislation allowing........ incest. His stance is essentially, so long as they take precautions not to conceive, it shouldn't be an issue because it's 2 consenting adults. I'm disgusted but I'm trying to approach this with a level head, and I am trying to find empirical research articles talking about the psychological effects of children born through first-degree incest (ie., siblings, parent-child) and I can't seem to find any. All I am able to find is journals talking about childhood incest from sexual abuse, I'm talking about adult "consensual" incest, and an otherwise healthy child's long term psychological trauma associated with being born under those circumstances.

Does anybody know of any journals or articles talking about that? I can't find any, anywhere. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I can't find them either, and I don't think you will. Just think about this: if you are separated from your brother/sister at young age, and meet him/her as a teen/adult. Do you think you would be immune to sexual atraction?

To my family? Yes. It's visceral. An innate repulsion to the idea. People have almost a physiological reaction the idea. I read a study where they site loss of appetite, nausea, and even gagging in some.

No you wouldn't. This happens a lot with cousins actually. I have a friend married to her cousin and they are regular people that love each other.

I must admit that having a relation with a brother since you were children, and suddenly one day start liking him sexualy as a boyfriend, sounds weird as f*ck. But hey, I don't expect people to think like me and they are doing nothing wrong by loving each other, so I won't judge them.