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Stop judging the homeless.

EndHate
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2/14/2015 2:18:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Get a job!" is the typical response of people when they see a homeless man begging for change. But can we think logically for a moment?
I'd like to think that everyone is born into a family that supports and guides them as they grow up. Parents are supposed to encourage children to attend college and get an education. At the age of 16, they should be taught work ethic and start looking for a job. Let me stop myself here for a moment. I understand that after age 18, we are responsible for our own lives and can't blame Mom and Dad anymore. However, childhood does somewhat shape our future. This is why so many parents set their kids up for success by encouraging them to accell academically and socially.

Okay, back to this homeless man with the sign. You expect him to get a job. Now. Say this man doesn't have any experience. That's going to make his search harder because the majority of employers prefer someone with a background. What else does he need? An address. This man sleeps under a bridge. Perhaps if he had family to put a roof over his head until he could find work, it would be difference. But say he has 0 support. He has no one to drive him to his interviews, and he has no money for public transportation. He doesn't have a phone or a way to be reached.

On top of all this, he is starving to death. You expect him to just walk into a McDonald's with no clean clothes, nail the interview, walk out with a job and be able to eat a meal that same day? Are you okay with him starving in the meantime?

And all of this is his fault.

If you are CEO of a company, how did you get there? No doubt you worked hard. But you can't sit here and tell me you did it 100% on your own. You had support from another person, big or small, at one point or another.

This man has had no support during his entire life. Do you honestly, HONESTLY, think that he chose this life? Seriously. Who would choose to sleep under a bridge and nearly starve? If there was anything he could do, without the help of anyone, to change his situation, he would do it. If he didn't NEED help, he wouldn't ask for it.
This is a human being who is the same inside as any Doctor or Lawyer. Can you imagine how embarrassing and degrading his lifestyle is and how hard it is to live the way he does?

Of course you can't. Because all you have to compare it to is yourself. You haven't walked in his shoes. You don't know how things have affected this person or what their upbringing was or what they do or don't have access to. Mental illness complicates things.

Now, there's always that suspicion that the person is a fraud, spending money on drugs and alcohol. But what if--just what if--he's not? What if he is actually starving?

Yet we automatically trust someone if they drive a Ferrari. This is a sad, sad world.
EndHate
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2/14/2015 2:19:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And let me add that I do think the person may be capable of working. My point is that everyone needs a little help to get where they need to be.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/14/2015 2:35:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Fool: It"s because in society, when women are not successful it"s the environment and men"s fault but when men are not successful it"s their fault.

With the overarching feminist narrative, were men are always the autonomous gender and thus the cause of all problems, people do not stop and think that maybe this has to do with environment, and or the society there in as well. As a society we allocate most of our social resources towards women's issues, women's health problems, and women's success in education, and in life in general, as a side effect men and boys are neglected, and it is deemed justified to them, as a type of retribution ethics, for men to suffer in these generations"

Despite woman, being much more likely to graduate high school, go on to college and or university, and succeeding university, and do better in all fields, and now in the United States starting to get paid more, men are still no longer encouraged as woman are to go to school and be successful. When men complain about the issues, there considered whiny, by men, women and society. And feminist say the not being emotional enough... Cry more they say,....... as they make fun of men who need help...

Everybody wants to be the tough guy. And these irrational types are willing to screw over their fellow man to give themselves this impression.

Against The Ideologist


Men are the disposable shock absorbers of the society.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/14/2015 2:47:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I will no be so naive as to think that all homeless people want is a chance to get ahead.

Been there did that done that. I was homeless because of my bad life choices and irresponsibility. You can say they don't want to be homeless, who does? But bad life choices and irresponsible behavior is saying you do. I have personal experience and no one is going to tell me any different as to why 90% of all homeless people are homeless. Bad life choices and irresponsibility. The other 10% are homeless through no fault of their own and don't stay that way more than a couple of weeks if that. I base this opinion on direct personal experience and observation. You want to know why 90% of people are poor? Go look at their garbage.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/14/2015 2:53:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/14/2015 2:47:32 PM, sadolite wrote:
sadolite : I will no be so naive as to think that all homeless people want is a chance to get ahead.

Been there did that done that. I was homeless because of my bad life choices and irresponsibility. You can say they don't want to be homeless, who does? But bad life choices and irresponsible behavior is saying you do. I have personal experience and no one is going to tell me any different as to why 90% of all homeless people are homeless. Bad life choices and irresponsibility. The other 10% are homeless through no fault of their own and don't stay that way more than a couple of weeks if that. I base this opinion on direct personal experience and observation. You want to know why 90% of people are poor? Go look at their garbage.

The Fool:: Nobody disagrees that poor decisions as part of it. And I'm sure a lot of it has to do with low IQ. But do you really think about 85% to 90% of the homeless being men is simply men making worse choices then woman, or does it have to do with the social programs, shelters, and family support which are much more available and caring to women, then it is for men.. I mean when you see a man or woman on the street who you feel more sorry for? I think we are biologically predisposed to feel more sorry for the woman..

Moreover, a rich man has no problem taking care of a poor women, if he likes her.. Rich women don't give a sh!t about a poor man. Poor women don't even care for poor man.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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2/14/2015 2:55:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
*The Fool: .I think we are biologically predisposed and socially conditioned to feel more sorry for the woman and children for the same amount of suffering .
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
AFism
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2/14/2015 5:18:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I totally agree with everything you say!

Ha you know,

I think if you replace the word homeless man and the complications that come with being a homeless man and replace that with any disadvantaged group in this society with their idiosyncrasies you will see why there are so many people who are outraged with this world.

I tried black people for example :)

You should try it too.

I think we all need to be thinking more like this guy!

Get a job!" is the typical response of people when they see Black People on any type of aid. But can we think logically for a moment?
I'd like to think that everyone is born into a family that supports and guides them as they grow up. Parents are supposed to encourage children to attend college and get an education. At the age of 16, they should be taught work ethic and start looking for a job. Let me stop myself here for a moment. I understand that after age 18, we are responsible for our own lives and can't blame Mom and Dad and SLAVERY anymore. However, childhood and circumstance does somewhat shape our future. This is why so many parents set their kids up for success by encouraging them to excell academically and socially.

Okay, back to Black People. You expect them to get a job. Now. Say this man doesn't have any experience. That's going to make his search harder because the majority of employers prefer someone with a background. But say they have less support. He might be raised in a low income neighborhood, had less resources, be prone to gang violence or saw no choice but to make due illegally.

On top of all this, he is living in a system which is not built for him. You expect him to just walk into a McDonald's with clean clothes, nail the interview, walk out with a job and be able to eat a meal that same day? Are you okay with him starving in the meantime and living on minimum wage?

And all of this is his fault.

If you are CEO of a company, how did you get there? No doubt you worked hard. But you can't sit here and tell me you did it 100% on your own. You had support from another person, big or small, at one point or another.

Some of these people have less support during their entire life. Do you honestly, HONESTLY, think that he chose this life? Seriously. Who would choose to have a stunted chance in a white society? If there was anything he could do, without the help of anyone, to change his situation, he would do it and we would see results. If some people didn't need aid there wouldn't be groups and programs that help out people at an disadvantage.
This is a human being who is the same inside as any Doctor or Lawyer. Can you imagine how embarrassing and degrading his lifestyle is and how hard it is to live the way he does if he or she chooses to make due illegally?

Of course you can't. Because all you have to compare it to is yourself. You haven't walked in his shoes. You don't know how things have affected this person or what their upbringing was or what they do or don't have access to. Mental illness complicates things.

Now, there's always that suspicion that the person is a fraud, spending money on drugs and alcohol. But what if--just what if--he's not? What if he is actually starving or struggling and needs aid?

Yet we automatically trust someone if they drive a Ferrari. This is a sad, sad world.
SaxxyBlues
Posts: 22
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2/14/2015 6:50:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Article About Television and Poverty ~ A Really Good Read
January 28, 2015 at 9:10pm

Article in the Sociological Imagination

http://sociologicalimagination.org...

Excerpt from Article

The evening was a stark reminder of our current crisis of representation, which both media and political agents contribute to, sometimes greasing the wheels and sometimes driving the machine of welfare commonsense. This machine insists that unemployment, poverty and precarity are the result of individual poor decisions, lack of willpower or motivation. The commonsense narrative of the welfare state is that welfare itself has created something called "welfare dependency"; a state of infantilised reliance, indulgence, entitlement, the "something for nothing" culture so often spoke of by political elites. Accompanying such "welfare dependency" talk is the fantasy solution of "getting tough", hardening our "soft touch" welfare, making assessment more rigorous, reducing eligibility criteria, increasing conditions and so ensuring that people become more "responsible", "reliant", that they make better "lifestyle choices".

The last paragraph of the article reads ~ in part ~

Rather, my questions are; is our representation "machinery" broken? Has television craft become television franchise? What are the conditions that enable ignorance about poverty to be claimed, constantly; by television producers who claim to bravely explore it while reproducing the same tired visual scripts; by politicians who cling to myths about the feckless welfare-dependent poor? What would television look like if production companies consulted advisors with actual, sociological expertise about the very processes they wish to "represent"? What would welfare policy look like if politicians read sociological research about poverty rather than a narrow range of think-tank publications? How bold would it be if, rather than inviting them to appear as "reality stars" in their vision, directors gave cameras to people marginalised by poverty, showed them how to use them, and asked them to represent themselves and their lives in self-authored programming? Then we would truly be in a golden age of television.
Vox_Veritas
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2/14/2015 7:02:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/14/2015 2:35:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: It"s because in society, when women are not successful it"s the environment and men"s fault but when men are not successful it"s their fault.

With the overarching feminist narrative, were men are always the autonomous gender and thus the cause of all problems, people do not stop and think that maybe this has to do with environment, and or the society there in as well. As a society we allocate most of our social resources towards women's issues, women's health problems, and women's success in education, and in life in general, as a side effect men and boys are neglected, and it is deemed justified to them, as a type of retribution ethics, for men to suffer in these generations"

Despite woman, being much more likely to graduate high school, go on to college and or university, and succeeding university, and do better in all fields, and now in the United States starting to get paid more, men are still no longer encouraged as woman are to go to school and be successful. When men complain about the issues, there considered whiny, by men, women and society. And feminist say the not being emotional enough... Cry more they say,....... as they make fun of men who need help...

Everybody wants to be the tough guy. And these irrational types are willing to screw over their fellow man to give themselves this impression.

Against The Ideologist


Men are the disposable shock absorbers of the society.



This is not what the OP was talking about.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/14/2015 7:13:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/14/2015 7:02:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 2/14/2015 2:35:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: It"s because in society, when women are not successful it"s the environment and men"s fault but when men are not successful it"s their fault.

With the overarching feminist narrative, were men are always the autonomous gender and thus the cause of all problems, people do not stop and think that maybe this has to do with environment, and or the society there in as well. As a society we allocate most of our social resources towards women's issues, women's health problems, and women's success in education, and in life in general, as a side effect men and boys are neglected, and it is deemed justified to them, as a type of retribution ethics, for men to suffer in these generations"

Despite woman, being much more likely to graduate high school, go on to college and or university, and succeeding university, and do better in all fields, and now in the United States starting to get paid more, men are still no longer encouraged as woman are to go to school and be successful. When men complain about the issues, there considered whiny, by men, women and society. And feminist say the not being emotional enough... Cry more they say,....... as they make fun of men who need help...

Everybody wants to be the tough guy. And these irrational types are willing to screw over their fellow man to give themselves this impression.

Against The Ideologist


Men are the disposable shock absorbers of the society.

Vox_Veritas: This is not what the OP was talking about.

The Fool: I'm talking about the cause, and solution to the homeless problem.. Most homeless are males, and this disproportion reflects society how "welfare" and general social support is being distributed, across those in need. In other words I'm arguing that there needs to be more effort in ensuring males at the bottom end of the spectrum, get through school.. How is that not related?

Against The Ideologist


I can't tell if you're trolling here..
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
R0b1Billion
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2/14/2015 9:31:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Jesus said "the meek shall inherit the Earth." There's a difference between meek and, as Sadolite was pointing out, those who squander their resources on indulgences. Jesus tells us to sell all we have and give it to charity, and to follow him. In a very particular way he is actually promoting homelessness. But again, it's different if you are willingly giving up material things as opposed to simply becoming so overwhelmingly addicted to them that you lose everything.

What I believe Jesus was getting at (in part) was precisely what Plato was getting at 500 years before: by rejecting material goods, you don't perpetuate war. Plato said that if we want to consume fine goods then we must go to war to secure them for ourselves. The middle-class uses a great amount of fine goods, and while we scorn politicians and corporations for their actions overseas, we are paying them to deliver these products to us while conveniently not making that connection in our minds that by consuming so much we are necessarily taking resources from the third world.

As far as businessmen not acknowledging they need help, that is very true. Ask any successful business owner, they will tell you they built it on their blood, sweat, and tears. While much of that is true, they also have inflated egos and said business owners are often unable to treat others (particularly their underlings) with appropriate respect. The phenomenon in psychology is called an internal locus of control. An external locus is just as bad (i.e., everything bad happens to me because nobody gives me a chance and it's not my fault) and the healthy "position" is a neutral locus: you take responsibility for your actions while also recognizing and respecting others (not letting your pride take off).
Beliefs in a nutshell:
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- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
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The_Fool_on_the_hill
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2/16/2015 10:45:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
*bump*
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL