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Stop sending people to jail

Raisor
Posts: 4,460
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2/19/2015 10:38:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Over the past few decades there has been a major decline in crime in the U.S.

This has been attributed to many causes (if anyone read Freakonomics, Leavitt claims it's due i part to an increase in abortions, I'm pretty skeptical about that).

The article below goes over how this decrease in crime is related to US prison population and suggests we ought to be restructuring our penal system to reflect the negative utility of mandatory sentencing and prison time for non-violent offenses.

http://www.theatlantic.com...

So what do you think? Time to stop sending non-violent criminals to jail?
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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2/19/2015 10:52:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not going into much detail here, but I'd send some non-violent offenders to prison. I think that private prisons that profit off of having prisoners should be abolished, and more funding should go to rehabilitation. Having a stronger mental health care would probably decrease the amount of prisoners, too.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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2/20/2015 12:52:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:38:57 PM, Raisor wrote:
Over the past few decades there has been a major decline in crime in the U.S.

This has been attributed to many causes (if anyone read Freakonomics, Leavitt claims it's due i part to an increase in abortions, I'm pretty skeptical about that).

The article below goes over how this decrease in crime is related to US prison population and suggests we ought to be restructuring our penal system to reflect the negative utility of mandatory sentencing and prison time for non-violent offenses.

http://www.theatlantic.com...

So what do you think? Time to stop sending non-violent criminals to jail?

wowie... so I saw that video about abortion a while back. I thought, "wow, this is nuts." Then I saw a criticism of it later and I don't remember what it is now, but I had accepted that the hypothesis was probably untrue.

After seeing this op, I got curious again, and after reading this: http://freakonomics.com...

I lean more toward thinking it's probably true again.....

It seems pretty logical.

May I ask what evidence makes you lean the other way? Sorry I'm kinda... derailing...
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/20/2015 6:47:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:38:57 PM, Raisor wrote:
Over the past few decades there has been a major decline in crime in the U.S.

This has been attributed to many causes (if anyone read Freakonomics, Leavitt claims it's due i part to an increase in abortions, I'm pretty skeptical about that).

Levitt's claim is easily falsifiable. Zimring looked at other countries that legalized abortion sooner than us (e.g. Canada). They did not see a drop in crime ~18 years later. They *did* however see the same crime decline we're seeing now. So the explanation has to be something common to all countries (e.g. economic factors, demographics).


The article below goes over how this decrease in crime is related to US prison population and suggests we ought to be restructuring our penal system to reflect the negative utility of mandatory sentencing and prison time for non-violent offenses.

http://www.theatlantic.com...

So what do you think? Time to stop sending non-violent criminals to jail?

(1) Decriminalize drugs. It costs 3x more to keep someone in jail than send them to school. I'm not willing to pay that as a taxpayer for jailing people who use drugs. Drug arrests form a significant portion of our prison population.

(2) Reduce child porn possession to a misdemeanor. I think it should still be a crime, but right now, people who are found with child porn on their computers typically get double or triple the sentence that *actual molesters* get. It's just absurd. There are some studies showing that a significant number of people convicted for child porn are just molesters, but hiding it, but those studies have serious methodological flaws. I've heard from judges that most of them are just normal people.

(3) Get rid of 3 strikes and mandatory minimums. The only groups that loves these are the prison guards union and the private prison lobby. More people in jail means more $$$. Studies have proven that neither of these have any effect on crime. Three strikes is particularly dumb because even without it, judges *do* consider priors while sentencing. But judges can consider the *severity* of the priors, whereas the three strikes law does not. People have been sent to prison for life for stealing 3 golf clubs. It's stupid.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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2/20/2015 4:13:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:47:19 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:38:57 PM, Raisor wrote:
Over the past few decades there has been a major decline in crime in the U.S.

This has been attributed to many causes (if anyone read Freakonomics, Leavitt claims it's due i part to an increase in abortions, I'm pretty skeptical about that).

Levitt's claim is easily falsifiable. Zimring looked at other countries that legalized abortion sooner than us (e.g. Canada). They did not see a drop in crime ~18 years later. They *did* however see the same crime decline we're seeing now. So the explanation has to be something common to all countries (e.g. economic factors, demographics).


The article below goes over how this decrease in crime is related to US prison population and suggests we ought to be restructuring our penal system to reflect the negative utility of mandatory sentencing and prison time for non-violent offenses.

http://www.theatlantic.com...

So what do you think? Time to stop sending non-violent criminals to jail?

(1) Decriminalize drugs. It costs 3x more to keep someone in jail than send them to school. I'm not willing to pay that as a taxpayer for jailing people who use drugs. Drug arrests form a significant portion of our prison population.

(2) Reduce child porn possession to a misdemeanor. I think it should still be a crime, but right now, people who are found with child porn on their computers typically get double or triple the sentence that *actual molesters* get. It's just absurd. There are some studies showing that a significant number of people convicted for child porn are just molesters, but hiding it, but those studies have serious methodological flaws. I've heard from judges that most of them are just normal people.

(3) Get rid of 3 strikes and mandatory minimums. The only groups that loves these are the prison guards union and the private prison lobby. More people in jail means more $$$. Studies have proven that neither of these have any effect on crime. Three strikes is particularly dumb because even without it, judges *do* consider priors while sentencing. But judges can consider the *severity* of the priors, whereas the three strikes law does not. People have been sent to prison for life for stealing 3 golf clubs. It's stupid.

Statistically, there is a HUGE difference between correlation and causation. Statistically, one might show a correlation between longevity and global warming, but where's the causation?
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/20/2015 4:28:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 4:13:05 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:47:19 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:38:57 PM, Raisor wrote:
Over the past few decades there has been a major decline in crime in the U.S.

This has been attributed to many causes (if anyone read Freakonomics, Leavitt claims it's due i part to an increase in abortions, I'm pretty skeptical about that).

Levitt's claim is easily falsifiable. Zimring looked at other countries that legalized abortion sooner than us (e.g. Canada). They did not see a drop in crime ~18 years later. They *did* however see the same crime decline we're seeing now. So the explanation has to be something common to all countries (e.g. economic factors, demographics).


The article below goes over how this decrease in crime is related to US prison population and suggests we ought to be restructuring our penal system to reflect the negative utility of mandatory sentencing and prison time for non-violent offenses.

http://www.theatlantic.com...

So what do you think? Time to stop sending non-violent criminals to jail?

(1) Decriminalize drugs. It costs 3x more to keep someone in jail than send them to school. I'm not willing to pay that as a taxpayer for jailing people who use drugs. Drug arrests form a significant portion of our prison population.

(2) Reduce child porn possession to a misdemeanor. I think it should still be a crime, but right now, people who are found with child porn on their computers typically get double or triple the sentence that *actual molesters* get. It's just absurd. There are some studies showing that a significant number of people convicted for child porn are just molesters, but hiding it, but those studies have serious methodological flaws. I've heard from judges that most of them are just normal people.

(3) Get rid of 3 strikes and mandatory minimums. The only groups that loves these are the prison guards union and the private prison lobby. More people in jail means more $$$. Studies have proven that neither of these have any effect on crime. Three strikes is particularly dumb because even without it, judges *do* consider priors while sentencing. But judges can consider the *severity* of the priors, whereas the three strikes law does not. People have been sent to prison for life for stealing 3 golf clubs. It's stupid.

Statistically, there is a HUGE difference between correlation and causation. Statistically, one might show a correlation between longevity and global warming, but where's the causation?

lol wtf are you referring to?

And the lack of correlation does prove a lack of causation.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/20/2015 6:40:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:38:57 PM, Raisor wrote:
Over the past few decades there has been a major decline in crime in the U.S.

This has been attributed to many causes (if anyone read Freakonomics, Leavitt claims it's due i part to an increase in abortions, I'm pretty skeptical about that).

The article below goes over how this decrease in crime is related to US prison population and suggests we ought to be restructuring our penal system to reflect the negative utility of mandatory sentencing and prison time for non-violent offenses.

http://www.theatlantic.com...

So what do you think? Time to stop sending non-violent criminals to jail?

The Fool: That's funny, because feminist say, that the best solution is to just stop sending woman jail. Instead.. Therefore only send men to jail.

In fact I will not be surprised if that's where this was inspired from.. They just changed the term women, to less to nonviolent criminals...

http://theconversation.com...

<(8D )
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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2/20/2015 7:04:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"So what is the alternative to jailing women at the rate we do? In the UK, advocates propose community sentences for nonviolent offenders, and housing violent offenders in small custodial centers near their families."

The Fool: And that's all they did...The plan was to prevent women from being in jail, because, Misandry, special pleading, and Appeal to Emotion fallacy, and then got shifted to Nonviolent offenders as the next best thing.. Of course since 80% of women in jail nonviolent criminals.. Nonviolent criminals including credit card fraud, hiring hitmen, Etc.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/20/2015 7:23:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://news.bbc.co.uk...
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/20/2015 8:06:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:46:06 PM, AFism wrote:
AFism : I think we should mirror Norway's justice system and focus more on rehabilitation.

The Fool: Punishment in a sense should ONLY be rehabilitation. I am against retributive justice. But you can't JUSTLY bend the system to intentionally favor woman, and harm men.

Men already receive 63% higher sentences for the same crime ,and are twice as likely too be incarcerated for the same crime. Black men receive the highest sentencing disparity...

http://www.law.umich.edu...

Do you think this is equality?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/20/2015 8:07:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's the FEMINIST version of equality.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/20/2015 8:11:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Fix
The Fool: The FEMINIST version of equality [before the LAW]

Against The Ideologist

The black feminist version even..
<(XD)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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2/20/2015 8:44:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 8:06:39 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/20/2015 7:46:06 PM, AFism wrote:
AFism : I think we should mirror Norway's justice system and focus more on rehabilitation.

The Fool: Punishment in a sense should ONLY be rehabilitation. I am against retributive justice. But you can't JUSTLY bend the system to intentionally favor woman, and harm men.

This is what i was saying....

Men already receive 63% higher sentences for the same crime ,and are twice as likely too be incarcerated for the same crime. Black men receive the highest sentencing disparity...

http://www.law.umich.edu...

Do you think this is equality?

Of course it is a slippery slope. But when we are hard on crime, drugs, and use capital punishment and mandatory minimums who does it disproportionately affect then? Black males, men in general.

Instead of arguing sentencing, i was referring to the prisons themselves. In Norway you are guaranteed a job or a trade once you're outside due to your training in prison. They set up cells like sterile college dorms and actually teach people how to function properly in society with out having to live a life of crime. Obviously the people who cannot be helped that deliberately choose to do wrong and rape or etc. will be moved in psychiatric wards for further rehabilitation. I feel this could rectify felon disenfranchisement too states decide to be more lenient on those laws because they see more progress, but hey who knows.

In other words- Before we address sentencing disparities, we should fix the infrastructure to contribute to a more rehabilitative environment and be more lenient with felon disenfranchisement laws or other laws that prohibit ex felons from getting jobs and etc. To address sentencing disparities, we have to look at all of the factors:

the disproportionality of police deployment in certain neighborhoods and militarized police departments in disadvantaged areas and minority areas

Racial profiling and police training: Who is getting suspected and convicted for crimes more and why?

Hegemony in our society. When sentencing, do we heavily weigh race/sex/sexuality/creed/class in our cases more than hard facts, evidence and testimonies.

Obviously fixing those things will take a lot of change in peoples thinking, the justice system, and greatly affect private jail industries, which is why I suggested adjusting the infrastructure, personnel and basic laws first and tailor that to rehabilitate the ones in jail, then go on to changing the societal factors. Obviously this wouldn't be gender specific laws etc. but laws that change how felons and ex felons are treated as a whole.

http://content.time.com...

Here is the link. The slide show will show you details.

Its not about bending laws to better help a certain group but addressing how we treat these ex felons and criminals as a whole so w they can have a better chance at rebuilding and not be prone to go back to a life of crime.

Hope I answered your questions
AFism
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2/20/2015 8:48:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 8:11:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Fix
The Fool: The FEMINIST version of equality [before the LAW]

Against The Ideologist

The black feminist version even..
<(XD)

You are obviously misinterpreting
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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2/20/2015 8:57:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Here are some more reasons why we should mimic norwegian prisons more.

http://www.businessinsider.com...
http://www.businessinsider.com...

In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 million people were behind bars as of August 2014.

That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.

It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.

Restorative justice is the answer people.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/20/2015 9:01:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 8:48:45 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:11:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Fix
The Fool: The FEMINIST version of equality [before the LAW]

Against The Ideologist

The black feminist version even..
<(XD)

AFism : You are obviously misinterpreting

The Fool: What exactly am I misinterpreting?

Yes this ": : The black feminist version even.." is as joke. But what else do you think I am misinterpreting?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
AFism
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2/20/2015 9:05:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:01:46 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:48:45 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:11:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Fix
The Fool: The FEMINIST version of equality [before the LAW]

Against The Ideologist

The black feminist version even..
<(XD)

AFism : You are obviously misinterpreting

The Fool: What exactly am I misinterpreting?

Yes this ": : The black feminist version even.." is a joke. But what else do you think I am misinterpreting?

Ha hard 2 see jokes in text fool lol. Never mind I illustrated my points for you all to see.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:05:51 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:01:46 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:48:45 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:11:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Fix
The Fool: The FEMINIST version of equality [before the LAW]

Against The Ideologist

The black feminist version even..
<(XD)

AFism : You are obviously misinterpreting

The Fool: What exactly am I misinterpreting?

Yes this ": : The black feminist version even.." is a joke. But what else do you think I am misinterpreting?

Ha hard 2 see jokes in text fool lol. Never mind I illustrated my points for you all to see.

The Fool: Wow. I am joking a lot.. What I say after. against the Ideologist. is usually not to be taken to seriously. I am often teasing you.
<(8D)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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2/20/2015 9:11:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:47:19 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:38:57 PM, Raisor wrote:
Over the past few decades there has been a major decline in crime in the U.S.

This has been attributed to many causes (if anyone read Freakonomics, Leavitt claims it's due i part to an increase in abortions, I'm pretty skeptical about that).

Levitt's claim is easily falsifiable. Zimring looked at other countries that legalized abortion sooner than us (e.g. Canada). They did not see a drop in crime ~18 years later. They *did* however see the same crime decline we're seeing now. So the explanation has to be something common to all countries (e.g. economic factors, demographics).


The article below goes over how this decrease in crime is related to US prison population and suggests we ought to be restructuring our penal system to reflect the negative utility of mandatory sentencing and prison time for non-violent offenses.

http://www.theatlantic.com...

So what do you think? Time to stop sending non-violent criminals to jail?

(1) Decriminalize drugs. It costs 3x more to keep someone in jail than send them to school. I'm not willing to pay that as a taxpayer for jailing people who use drugs. Drug arrests form a significant portion of our prison population.

(2) Reduce child porn possession to a misdemeanor. I think it should still be a crime, but right now, people who are found with child porn on their computers typically get double or triple the sentence that *actual molesters* get. It's just absurd. There are some studies showing that a significant number of people convicted for child porn are just molesters, but hiding it, but those studies have serious methodological flaws. I've heard from judges that most of them are just normal people.

I'm skeptical that anyone who looks at child porn is a normal person.

(3) Get rid of 3 strikes and mandatory minimums. The only groups that loves these are the prison guards union and the private prison lobby. More people in jail means more $$$. Studies have proven that neither of these have any effect on crime. Three strikes is particularly dumb because even without it, judges *do* consider priors while sentencing. But judges can consider the *severity* of the priors, whereas the three strikes law does not. People have been sent to prison for life for stealing 3 golf clubs. It's stupid.
Nolite Timere
AFism
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2/20/2015 9:17:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:05:51 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:01:46 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:48:45 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:11:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Fix
The Fool: The FEMINIST version of equality [before the LAW]

Against The Ideologist

The black feminist version even..
<(XD)

AFism : You are obviously misinterpreting

The Fool: What exactly am I misinterpreting?

Yes this ": : The black feminist version even.." is a joke. But what else do you think I am misinterpreting?

Ha hard 2 see jokes in text fool lol. Never mind I illustrated my points for you all to see.

The Fool: Wow. I am joking a lot.. What I say after. against the Ideologist. is usually not to be taken to seriously. I am often teasing you.
<(8D)

Ha now i see. it seems as though everyone avoids my posts to these sorts of forums except for you obviously lol
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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2/20/2015 9:25:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:17:22 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:05:51 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:01:46 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:48:45 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:11:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Fix
The Fool: The FEMINIST version of equality [before the LAW]

Against The Ideologist

The black feminist version even..
<(XD)

AFism : You are obviously misinterpreting

The Fool: What exactly am I misinterpreting?

Yes this ": : The black feminist version even.." is a joke. But what else do you think I am misinterpreting?

Ha hard 2 see jokes in text fool lol. Never mind I illustrated my points for you all to see.

The Fool: Wow. I am joking a lot.. What I say after. against the Ideologist. is usually not to be taken to seriously. I am often teasing you.
<(8D)

AFism : Ha now i see. it seems as though everyone avoids my posts to these sorts of forums except for you obviously lol

The Fool: Must be black thing.
<(8D)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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2/20/2015 9:26:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
*: The Fool: Must be [a] black thing.
<(8D)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,732
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2/20/2015 9:42:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:17:22 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

Could you please stop feeding the troll? He always comes back if you give him food...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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2/20/2015 10:00:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:42:22 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:17:22 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

R0b1Billion : Could you please stop feeding the troll? He always comes back if you give him food...

The Fool; Lol. how am I a troll?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
R0b1Billion
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2/20/2015 10:06:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I actually support the title the way it is put: "stop sending people to jail." Imprisoning people does not seem to be an effective deterrent to committing crimes, since so many people still commit them anyway.

When somebody decides to break the law, the chances are overwhelmingly probable that they aren't going to get caught. The only real danger comes from repetition of breaking the law, and even then there's always the possibility of beating the case in court. I myself have been to certain low-points in my life where I have fallen into the habit of doing bad things, and when law-abiding citizens like you all construct your risk analyses about why jail deters crime, you simply don't have the proper perspective. Why does a junkie destroy their insides with drugs? It's not logical, but they do it anyway. Why do sex addicts destroy their personal lives? Why do people turn to lives of crime and risk losing everything they have over trying to get a relatively small advantage? You can't look at these people from a normal vantage point and declare that the threat of prison is deterring them - it simply is not.

If the penal system didn't exist, such deterrents would exist naturally; for instance, the destruction of one's personal network (i.e., friends, family, colleagues, etc.). But the mind of a criminal is inherently illogical... I have existed as a criminal in different points in my life, and when I look back at those times now it is impossible to reason with myself, impossible to understand why I thought those choices were in my best interest. Not only was the legal threat ineffective at deterring me, but it in fact negates the natural deterrents that otherwise would exist in its place, had we not stepped in and decided we are so holy and endowed that we have the right to judge others. We demand justice for crimes, as though any justice actually comes from the justice system (the penal system simply gives ordinary citizens an outlet to vent their hatred), and this system destroys any ethical considerations a person might otherwise realize before acting. Why consider ethics when the law replaces our ethics? If something is legal, then I have the right to do it even though it may be quite damaging overall. If the law forbids it, then I still may consider going forward if the chances of getting caught (which are, again, often minimal) are by my statistical calculations worth the risk.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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2/21/2015 11:33:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:42:22 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:17:22 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

Could you please stop feeding the troll? He always comes back if you give him food...

Ha your'e convinced he is a troll? I think he is confused but if you insist...
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/21/2015 11:53:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/21/2015 11:33:47 AM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:42:22 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:17:22 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

Could you please stop feeding the troll? He always comes back if you give him food...

R0b1Billion : Ha your'e convinced he is a troll?

The Fool: He doesn't even think I am a troll. He's just trying to marginalize my voice.

AFism: I think he is confused but if you insist...

The Fool: Oh? what am do you think I am confused about. Really. I think your confused as to when I am more or less serious.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,732
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2/21/2015 5:19:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/21/2015 11:33:47 AM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:42:22 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:17:22 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

Could you please stop feeding the troll? He always comes back if you give him food...

Ha your'e convinced he is a troll? I think he is confused but if you insist...

Not confused. There's a difference between
1) having a strong opinion on something and
2) blaming every possible thing from the weather to Janet Jackson's costume malfunction on it.

It's just trolling, he is angry and using the forums to attack an ideology that he has become obsessed with. It brings down the quality of discussion when new people arrive and respond to him and we have to have the same meaningless conversations all over again.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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2/21/2015 6:59:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/21/2015 5:19:48 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 2/21/2015 11:33:47 AM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:42:22 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:17:22 PM, AFism wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:08:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

Could you please stop feeding the troll? He always comes back if you give him food...

Ha your'e convinced he is a troll? I think he is confused but if you insist...

Not confused. There's a difference between
1) having a strong opinion on something and
2) blaming every possible thing from the weather to Janet Jackson's costume malfunction on it.

It's just trolling, he is angry and using the forums to attack an ideology that he has become obsessed with. It brings down the quality of discussion when new people arrive and respond to him and we have to have the same meaningless conversations all over again.

I see.