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Gay Conversion/"Reparative" Therapy

bsh1
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2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...
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thett3
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2/24/2015 1:38:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It'll be one of those things that our kids will be like

"They actually did this? Like, in your lifetime dad?"
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YYW
Posts: 36,394
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2/24/2015 1:39:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

My opinions more or less parallel yours. I would only go a step further and say that people who practice gay conversion therapy should be prosecuted, and forced by court order to discontinue indefinitely their providing mental health services to any person.
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bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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2/24/2015 1:40:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:39:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

My opinions more or less parallel yours. I would only go a step further and say that people who practice gay conversion therapy should be prosecuted, and forced by court order to discontinue indefinitely their providing mental health services to any person.

I think that they should be sued for legal damages and malpractice, and I think GCT should be made explicitly illegal.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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YYW
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2/24/2015 1:43:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:40:49 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:39:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

My opinions more or less parallel yours. I would only go a step further and say that people who practice gay conversion therapy should be prosecuted, and forced by court order to discontinue indefinitely their providing mental health services to any person.

I think that they should be sued for legal damages and malpractice, and I think GCT should be made explicitly illegal.

I would agree with that too.
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EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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2/24/2015 2:10:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This *is* the sort of thing I'd have gotten into had Ajabi accepted my challenge.

Anyway, Ore_Ele seems to have some thoughts on the matter. Ask him.
SirCrona
Posts: 139
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2/24/2015 3:04:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

It's possible to change someone's sexuality, but the process involved wouldn't be called "therapy" by any stretch of the word. Most therapeutic methods employed by "Reparative therapy" don't really work.
Envisage
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2/24/2015 4:07:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

Pretty sure GCT or SCT will become increasingly viable in the future, but as it stands, they aren't efficacious enough to make a significant impact, and definitely not an impact that outweighs the cost/risks.

Hormonal therapy seems much more potent than the purely psychological routes largely attempted in the 60's (flashing images, suggestion, psychotherapy, etc.), especially given that we are already capable of manipulating attraction to a degree with hormonal therapy, such as those who suffer brain trauma, or have sex swaps, etc.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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2/24/2015 5:31:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Whether it's possible is moot, I think, because the desire to change is more pathological and worthy of treatment than the condition which the person desires to change. It's easier to help someone to deal with their feelings about homosexuality than it is to change the attraction, and there's nothing objectively bad about the attraction which warrants any desire to change it.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/24/2015 7:29:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

It's only "effective" to the extent that the sh!t they sometimes do to gay people under the guise of "therapy" is so horrible that they will avow over and over again that they are straight simply to avoid more "therapy."

Conversion therapy has included electroshock and attaching electrodes to gay people's balls and shocking them whenever they got aroused by a picture of a man.

It's about as effective as torture is in getting accurate information.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
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2/24/2015 7:30:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:29:40 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

It's only "effective" to the extent that the sh!t they sometimes do to gay people under the guise of "therapy" is so horrible that they will avow over and over again that they are straight simply to avoid more "therapy."

Conversion therapy has included electroshock and attaching electrodes to gay people's balls and shocking them whenever they got aroused by a picture of a man.

It's about as effective as torture is in getting accurate information.

Agreed.
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/24/2015 7:35:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:30:26 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:29:40 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

It's only "effective" to the extent that the sh!t they sometimes do to gay people under the guise of "therapy" is so horrible that they will avow over and over again that they are straight simply to avoid more "therapy."

Conversion therapy has included electroshock and attaching electrodes to gay people's balls and shocking them whenever they got aroused by a picture of a man.

It's about as effective as torture is in getting accurate information.

Agreed.

Based on the past month or two on the site, I'm starting to think that these procreative justifications for opposing homosexuality are just the "new homophobia," just like talking about "ghetto" or "urban" youths is the new way to be racist.

When outright bigotry no longer becomes socially acceptable, people hide their bigotry until a shallow facade. Although in Ajab's case, the facade is not that shallow, given his open admissions that he thinks all gay sex is wrong, even if it is in a committed relationship. His own shallow justification that "lust" is bad doesn't even hold up under his own position.

Gay conversion therapy seems similar. People say it's fine under the guise that no one can be forced into therapy against their will. But really? No sane gay person would ever undergo these therapies. They are either pressured or coerced into it by family, or in older times, by such intense societal stigma that they actually hoped it would work.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
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2/24/2015 7:40:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:35:25 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:30:26 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:29:40 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

It's only "effective" to the extent that the sh!t they sometimes do to gay people under the guise of "therapy" is so horrible that they will avow over and over again that they are straight simply to avoid more "therapy."

Conversion therapy has included electroshock and attaching electrodes to gay people's balls and shocking them whenever they got aroused by a picture of a man.

It's about as effective as torture is in getting accurate information.

Agreed.

Based on the past month or two on the site, I'm starting to think that these procreative justifications for opposing homosexuality are just the "new homophobia," just like talking about "ghetto" or "urban" youths is the new way to be racist.

When outright bigotry no longer becomes socially acceptable, people hide their bigotry until a shallow facade. Although in Ajab's case, the facade is not that shallow, given his open admissions that he thinks all gay sex is wrong, even if it is in a committed relationship. His own shallow justification that "lust" is bad doesn't even hold up under his own position.

Gay conversion therapy seems similar. People say it's fine under the guise that no one can be forced into therapy against their will. But really? No sane gay person would ever undergo these therapies. They are either pressured or coerced into it by family, or in older times, by such intense societal stigma that they actually hoped it would work.

Agreed x 2
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,373
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2/25/2015 4:12:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

Is there HCT? Heterosexual Conversion Therapy as well? 0.0
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bluesteel
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2/25/2015 6:48:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 4:12:38 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

Is there HCT? Heterosexual Conversion Therapy as well? 0.0

Yeah, it's called being in a sh!tty heterosexual relationship. One of the first cases where someone tried to claim common law marriage should apply to gay couples was brought by a lesbian who said she became a lesbian because she no longer trusted men due to a number of past abusive relationships.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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2/25/2015 6:52:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't think there's any evidence it's effective, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should be banned. There are plenty of ineffective treatments like (homeopathy, colon cleansing, healing crystals, dianetics, and magnet therapy) that are perfectly legal to buy, including for minors.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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2/25/2015 6:56:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:35:25 PM, bluesteel wrote:
When outright bigotry no longer becomes socially acceptable, people hide their bigotry until a shallow facade. Although in Ajab's case, the facade is not that shallow, given his open admissions that he thinks all gay sex is wrong, even if it is in a committed relationship. His own shallow justification that "lust" is bad doesn't even hold up under his own position.

I don't see how thinking gay sex is morally wrong is 'bigotry'. There are plenty of people who believe that as part of a broader code of ethics on sex (like myself). As long as you aren't being a jerk about it I don't see the big deal. I'd say there are a good deal of people who personally oppose sex outside a monogamous man-woman marriage, and still support gay marriage or some variation of gay rights - if not a majority.
YYW
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2/25/2015 8:09:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:38:02 PM, thett3 wrote:
It'll be one of those things that our kids will be like

"They actually did this? Like, in your lifetime dad?"
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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2/25/2015 8:35:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 6:52:04 AM, TN05 wrote:
I don't think there's any evidence it's effective, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should be banned. There are plenty of ineffective treatments like (homeopathy, colon cleansing, healing crystals, dianetics, and magnet therapy) that are perfectly legal to buy, including for minors.

It should be banned because unlike the scam treatments you mentioned, GCT cause actual and severe psychological (and sometimes physical) harm to individuals.
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Publicaccount
Posts: 27
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2/25/2015 7:47:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If an adult wants to do it then go right ahead. If you want to try to change your sexuality that's you problem.

But a child (Younger then 18) should not be put through conversion therapy. Considering how cruel some of the methods are I would say anybody who does this to their kids should be able to be charged for child abuse.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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3/5/2015 12:58:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

I am waiting for a theist to post that agrees with this stuff. But I find it detestable. They may call homosexuality an abomination, but I say this is the real abomination when you have to torture somebody to change.
Khaos_Mage
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3/5/2015 1:30:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:31:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Gay conversion therapy (GCT), also referred to as Gay "Reparative" Therapy (GRT), is the use of therapy to try to undo someone's same sex attraction and to make them heterosexually oriented. What are your thoughts on this subject?

My opinions can be found here: http://www.debate.org...

I largely think it is ineffective and, in cases where parents force their children to do so, potentially abusive. It is likely only effective for those that truly want help, which is likely not the vast majority of them, similar to Alcoholics Anonymous (it works for those that want to change, but so many are there because they are court-ordered, it severely taints the effectiveness).

However, the therapy on its own merits, is probably useful where it is applicable.
I assume the theory is the same as those trying to change their pedophilia. It is not to change them, but to suppress their urges thereby affecting their lifestyle with the hopes that they can live normal (from their POV) lives.
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bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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3/30/2015 5:51:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Necro-bumping for reasons: http://www.debate.org...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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