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Are courts biased against fathers in custody?

bluesteel
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2/24/2015 8:14:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is a perception among some people that judges tend to favor the mother in custody disputes. But this assumption doesn't seem to be borne out by the statistics.

In 83% of the cases in which the mother ended up with custody, it was because the parties mutually agreed to grant the mother sole custody. [1] When fathers actually ask the court for custody, they receive either sole or joint custody 70% of the time. [2]

When fathers don't receive custody, there's something else to consider that might explain any remaining gender gap. The "best interest of the child" standard which courts use to decide custody takes into account a number of factors. Courts consider: whether one of the parents is a felon, alcoholic, or abuser; how much time each parent spent with the child during marriage; and which parent the child prefers. Men are 10 times more likely to be felons than women. [3] Men are twice as likely to be alcoholics as women. [4] And mothers spend twice as much time raising the children while the marriage is still intact, despite most families having two wage earners. [1] It is easy to speculate that the children are more likely to express a desire to live with the mother if she spends twice as much time with them. Men are also 9 times more likely to be domestic abusers than women. [5] These are all gender neutral explanations that might explain any remaining gender gap.

So do you think that men are treated unfairly in Family Court?

== Sources ==

[1] http://divorcesupport.about.com...
[2] http://amptoons.com...
[3] http://www.prisonpolicy.org...
[4] http://www.yale.edu...
[5] http://phys.org...
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
SamStevens
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2/24/2015 8:36:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:14:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
There is a perception among some people that judges tend to favor the mother in custody disputes. But this assumption doesn't seem to be borne out by the statistics.

In 83% of the cases in which the mother ended up with custody, it was because the parties mutually agreed to grant the mother sole custody. [1] When fathers actually ask the court for custody, they receive either sole or joint custody 70% of the time. [2]

When fathers don't receive custody, there's something else to consider that might explain any remaining gender gap. The "best interest of the child" standard which courts use to decide custody takes into account a number of factors. Courts consider: whether one of the parents is a felon, alcoholic, or abuser; how much time each parent spent with the child during marriage; and which parent the child prefers. Men are 10 times more likely to be felons than women. [3] Men are twice as likely to be alcoholics as women. [4] And mothers spend twice as much time raising the children while the marriage is still intact, despite most families having two wage earners. [1] It is easy to speculate that the children are more likely to express a desire to live with the mother if she spends twice as much time with them. Men are also 9 times more likely to be domestic abusers than women. [5] These are all gender neutral explanations that might explain any remaining gender gap.

So do you think that men are treated unfairly in Family Court?

== Sources ==

[1] http://divorcesupport.about.com...
[2] http://amptoons.com...
[3] http://www.prisonpolicy.org...
[4] http://www.yale.edu...
[5] http://phys.org...

Based on the statistics you provided, it seems as though men are treated fairly in Family Court. I think men get the short end of the stick in Divorce Court though.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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2/24/2015 8:55:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't really know a lot about family law... or anything really.... and that's sort of by design. Divorce, custody issues, that sort of thing really is the kind of thing I wouldn't be well suited to resolving anyway.

I think it's reasonable that courts are more likely to put kids in mother's custody, but at the same time I think that mothers are just as capable of being physically and emotionally abusive as fathers are, and sometimes moreso because I think courts usually associate child abuse with fathers.

The point to that would be that while I definitely agree with the "best interest of the child" standard, determining what is "actually" in a child's best interest with respect to custody issues is really hard to determine and a total picture needs to be evaluated.

I've known when I was in high school, for example, of parents who were very good at fooling social workers and training their kids (with fear, mostly) in what to say and what not to say.

The really sad thing is that usually, when we're even at the point of deciding custody (outside the context of divorce for stuff like irreconcilable differences or cheating), we're usually choosing between bad and worse options... which I don't like.

One instance, though, where I think that courts would be biased against fathers would be a situation where there's a working but loving dad, and a cold, emotionally abusive mother -and the dad (because his wife is a cold hearted bitch) cheats on her with someone younger and prettier who makes him feel good about himself unlike his wife. Dad doesn't get a divorce because he doesn't want to break up the family, but mom is freezing the family to the core. Mom picks up Dad's phone; sees some text messages and connects the dots. Files for divorce. Dad, in this case could by all practical measures a better person than the distant, cold-hearted mom, but mom would have a vagina and would therefore be more likely to get custody even though she is not a better "parent."

But.... every situation is different. I would like to hope that courts consider that, although I really doubt they do because of (1) the volume of cases that come across their desks, (2) the preconceived notions they must have necessarily developed in the course of resolving so many disputes, and (3) their subjective and limited impressions of the parties themselves.
bluesteel
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2/24/2015 8:56:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:36:26 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:14:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
There is a perception among some people that judges tend to favor the mother in custody disputes. But this assumption doesn't seem to be borne out by the statistics.

In 83% of the cases in which the mother ended up with custody, it was because the parties mutually agreed to grant the mother sole custody. [1] When fathers actually ask the court for custody, they receive either sole or joint custody 70% of the time. [2]

When fathers don't receive custody, there's something else to consider that might explain any remaining gender gap. The "best interest of the child" standard which courts use to decide custody takes into account a number of factors. Courts consider: whether one of the parents is a felon, alcoholic, or abuser; how much time each parent spent with the child during marriage; and which parent the child prefers. Men are 10 times more likely to be felons than women. [3] Men are twice as likely to be alcoholics as women. [4] And mothers spend twice as much time raising the children while the marriage is still intact, despite most families having two wage earners. [1] It is easy to speculate that the children are more likely to express a desire to live with the mother if she spends twice as much time with them. Men are also 9 times more likely to be domestic abusers than women. [5] These are all gender neutral explanations that might explain any remaining gender gap.

So do you think that men are treated unfairly in Family Court?

== Sources ==

[1] http://divorcesupport.about.com...
[2] http://amptoons.com...
[3] http://www.prisonpolicy.org...
[4] http://www.yale.edu...
[5] http://phys.org...

Based on the statistics you provided, it seems as though men are treated fairly in Family Court. I think men get the short end of the stick in Divorce Court though.

On what, asset division? Given the thrust of this thread, can you provide any statistics to back that up? Gut feelings aren't evidence. Stephen Colbert's "truthiness" isn't a real thing.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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2/24/2015 9:01:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
*anything to do with family law....

With regard to whether men are treated fairly or not, I do think that there are (perhaps justifiable) basis against men in custody proceedings. Again, I'd like to think that courts take into account a holistic picture of what is *actually* in the best interest of the child(ren) whose wellbeing is at stake, but I'm really not optimistic about the probability of that for a variety of reasons. My experience in dealing with judges who have a high volume of cases that cross their desk, as well, has bolstered that.

Family court is a miserable place; and I usually try to walk a wide path around all things that relate to it. It's certainly a good, necessary and respectable profession to go into... but I couldn't do it.
SamStevens
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2/24/2015 9:04:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:56:52 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:36:26 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:14:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
There is a perception among some people that judges tend to favor the mother in custody disputes. But this assumption doesn't seem to be borne out by the statistics.

In 83% of the cases in which the mother ended up with custody, it was because the parties mutually agreed to grant the mother sole custody. [1] When fathers actually ask the court for custody, they receive either sole or joint custody 70% of the time. [2]

When fathers don't receive custody, there's something else to consider that might explain any remaining gender gap. The "best interest of the child" standard which courts use to decide custody takes into account a number of factors. Courts consider: whether one of the parents is a felon, alcoholic, or abuser; how much time each parent spent with the child during marriage; and which parent the child prefers. Men are 10 times more likely to be felons than women. [3] Men are twice as likely to be alcoholics as women. [4] And mothers spend twice as much time raising the children while the marriage is still intact, despite most families having two wage earners. [1] It is easy to speculate that the children are more likely to express a desire to live with the mother if she spends twice as much time with them. Men are also 9 times more likely to be domestic abusers than women. [5] These are all gender neutral explanations that might explain any remaining gender gap.

So do you think that men are treated unfairly in Family Court?

== Sources ==

[1] http://divorcesupport.about.com...
[2] http://amptoons.com...
[3] http://www.prisonpolicy.org...
[4] http://www.yale.edu...
[5] http://phys.org...

Based on the statistics you provided, it seems as though men are treated fairly in Family Court. I think men get the short end of the stick in Divorce Court though.

On what, asset division? Given the thrust of this thread, can you provide any statistics to back that up? Gut feelings aren't evidence. Stephen Colbert's "truthiness" isn't a real thing.

After doing some research to try to support my point, I found that there wasn't any significant bias in the Divorce Court. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/25/2015 1:19:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 9:04:10 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:56:52 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:36:26 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:14:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
There is a perception among some people that judges tend to favor the mother in custody disputes. But this assumption doesn't seem to be borne out by the statistics.

In 83% of the cases in which the mother ended up with custody, it was because the parties mutually agreed to grant the mother sole custody. [1] When fathers actually ask the court for custody, they receive either sole or joint custody 70% of the time. [2]

When fathers don't receive custody, there's something else to consider that might explain any remaining gender gap. The "best interest of the child" standard which courts use to decide custody takes into account a number of factors. Courts consider: whether one of the parents is a felon, alcoholic, or abuser; how much time each parent spent with the child during marriage; and which parent the child prefers. Men are 10 times more likely to be felons than women. [3] Men are twice as likely to be alcoholics as women. [4] And mothers spend twice as much time raising the children while the marriage is still intact, despite most families having two wage earners. [1] It is easy to speculate that the children are more likely to express a desire to live with the mother if she spends twice as much time with them. Men are also 9 times more likely to be domestic abusers than women. [5] These are all gender neutral explanations that might explain any remaining gender gap.

So do you think that men are treated unfairly in Family Court?

== Sources ==

[1] http://divorcesupport.about.com...
[2] http://amptoons.com...
[3] http://www.prisonpolicy.org...
[4] http://www.yale.edu...
[5] http://phys.org...

Based on the statistics you provided, it seems as though men are treated fairly in Family Court. I think men get the short end of the stick in Divorce Court though.

On what, asset division? Given the thrust of this thread, can you provide any statistics to back that up? Gut feelings aren't evidence. Stephen Colbert's "truthiness" isn't a real thing.

After doing some research to try to support my point, I found that there wasn't any significant bias in the Divorce Court. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

You made a claim, it was challenged, so you did some research (honestly, it would seem), changed your mind, and took back your claim. There is hope for humanity.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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2/25/2015 9:25:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I actually find this fascinating. I'd always thought there was a bias in custody cases, but I never really looked into it. Thanks for that, bluesteel!

That said, there *is* a strong bias in criminal cases.

http://papers.ssrn.com...
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,718
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2/25/2015 12:02:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am involved in a custody dispute with my daughter's mother at the moment, unfortunately it is still ongoing so I can't report as to the justice of it because it isn't done. Suffice to say I am an awesome father and my four year-old daughter desperately wants me to be in her life more than I am legally able to at the moment, and whether this story has a happy ending will be relevant to your research. I cannot be detailed right now however, she knows I use this site and has stopped at nothing to strengthen her case and if I say something about it here I can be assured I'll be hearing about it from her lawyer during our trial. It will be a couple months before everything is resolved and I can report on it.

I can say I am nervous about the outcome, my daughter depends on me for emotional/intellectual/physical/spiritual support (these are the four areas social-workers use to describe "the whole child") and if I am unable to be a big-enough part in her life she is not going to understand why. Young children don't understand laws, they only know that you are either there or you aren't. I had worked out a tentative schedule with her mother at one point through mediation, but unfortunately it fell through and I am only allowed to see her on the weekends now because that's all I could get at the hearing until the case is settled (she made accusations of me and they are giving her the benefit of the doubt in the interim). When we had made the schedule, I got her more often and during the week for a while there, and I showed her the schedule so she would understand. I pointed at each day and said you see mommy here, daddy here, mommy, daddy, mommy, etc. When our schedule fell through (she changed her mind and wanted me to only have her on the weekends again) my daughter was hurt and was saying "mommy, daddy, mommy, daddy" because she was expressing sorrow and confusion about not being able to see us on alternating days like I promised her. You guys can't relate to what it feels like, to promise your daughter you are going to be there for her and then have it legally ripped away from you while your daughter is too confused to know that it's not your fault because you're being forced not to see her. In her eyes, I'm simply choosing not to see her. I can't convey to her how our legal system works. To her, she's simply not good enough to warrant my time and energy. I'm not there for her because she's not worth being there for. I can only hope that lack of security is not permanently damaging her, I mean I do see her on the weekends but whether that is enough I do not know.
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jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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2/25/2015 12:17:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I find it important to remind everyone that, once the proper variables are controlled for, the gender gap in pay also disappears. But, feminists don't seem to remember that as often.
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/25/2015 12:43:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So fathers don't often get a look in for getting the child, but this is evidence, somehow, for them not being biased against them. Sound reasoning there. You wouldn't happen to be a feminist by any chance, OP?
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/25/2015 1:05:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 12:43:55 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
So fathers don't often get a look in for getting the child, but this is evidence, somehow, for them not being biased against them. Sound reasoning there. You wouldn't happen to be a feminist by any chance, OP?

Are you sure you read the original post carefully?
UndeniableReality
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2/25/2015 1:06:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 12:17:29 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I find it important to remind everyone that, once the proper variables are controlled for, the gender gap in pay also disappears. But, feminists don't seem to remember that as often.

I have heard this before, but I haven't seen the statistics. Do you have them? If not, I can look for myself (not going to burden you with looking it up all over again if you don't have the saved or the source in memory).
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/25/2015 1:07:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 12:02:47 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I am involved in a custody dispute with my daughter's mother at the moment, unfortunately it is still ongoing so I can't report as to the justice of it because it isn't done. Suffice to say I am an awesome father and my four year-old daughter desperately wants me to be in her life more than I am legally able to at the moment, and whether this story has a happy ending will be relevant to your research. I cannot be detailed right now however, she knows I use this site and has stopped at nothing to strengthen her case and if I say something about it here I can be assured I'll be hearing about it from her lawyer during our trial. It will be a couple months before everything is resolved and I can report on it.

I can say I am nervous about the outcome, my daughter depends on me for emotional/intellectual/physical/spiritual support (these are the four areas social-workers use to describe "the whole child") and if I am unable to be a big-enough part in her life she is not going to understand why. Young children don't understand laws, they only know that you are either there or you aren't. I had worked out a tentative schedule with her mother at one point through mediation, but unfortunately it fell through and I am only allowed to see her on the weekends now because that's all I could get at the hearing until the case is settled (she made accusations of me and they are giving her the benefit of the doubt in the interim). When we had made the schedule, I got her more often and during the week for a while there, and I showed her the schedule so she would understand. I pointed at each day and said you see mommy here, daddy here, mommy, daddy, mommy, etc. When our schedule fell through (she changed her mind and wanted me to only have her on the weekends again) my daughter was hurt and was saying "mommy, daddy, mommy, daddy" because she was expressing sorrow and confusion about not being able to see us on alternating days like I promised her. You guys can't relate to what it feels like, to promise your daughter you are going to be there for her and then have it legally ripped away from you while your daughter is too confused to know that it's not your fault because you're being forced not to see her. In her eyes, I'm simply choosing not to see her. I can't convey to her how our legal system works. To her, she's simply not good enough to warrant my time and energy. I'm not there for her because she's not worth being there for. I can only hope that lack of security is not permanently damaging her, I mean I do see her on the weekends but whether that is enough I do not know.

I hope it turns out well for you, and especially for your daughter. Best of luck.
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/25/2015 1:37:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 1:05:50 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:43:55 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
So fathers don't often get a look in for getting the child, but this is evidence, somehow, for them not being biased against them. Sound reasoning there. You wouldn't happen to be a feminist by any chance, OP?

Are you sure you read the original post carefully?

Yes. Did you?
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
UndeniableReality
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2/25/2015 1:58:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 1:37:36 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:05:50 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:43:55 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
So fathers don't often get a look in for getting the child, but this is evidence, somehow, for them not being biased against them. Sound reasoning there. You wouldn't happen to be a feminist by any chance, OP?

Are you sure you read the original post carefully?

Yes. Did you?

Yes, I did. Maybe I'm just not understanding your original statement. I might not really know what "don't often get a look in", means. But are you saying the statistics presented in the OP suggest that there is bias against fathers getting custody?
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/25/2015 1:59:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 1:58:30 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:37:36 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:05:50 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:43:55 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
So fathers don't often get a look in for getting the child, but this is evidence, somehow, for them not being biased against them. Sound reasoning there. You wouldn't happen to be a feminist by any chance, OP?

Are you sure you read the original post carefully?

Yes. Did you?

Yes, I did. Maybe I'm just not understanding your original statement. I might not really know what "don't often get a look in", means. But are you saying the statistics presented in the OP suggest that there is bias against fathers getting custody?

Yes I am. The justifications are bullsh1t, I'm afraid.
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/25/2015 2:01:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 1:59:32 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:58:30 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:37:36 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:05:50 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:43:55 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
So fathers don't often get a look in for getting the child, but this is evidence, somehow, for them not being biased against them. Sound reasoning there. You wouldn't happen to be a feminist by any chance, OP?

Are you sure you read the original post carefully?

Yes. Did you?

Yes, I did. Maybe I'm just not understanding your original statement. I might not really know what "don't often get a look in", means. But are you saying the statistics presented in the OP suggest that there is bias against fathers getting custody?

Yes I am. The justifications are bullsh1t, I'm afraid.

Regardless of those additional justifications (they were not used to justify the actual point, by the way), how do you get that from the statistics presented in the OP?
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/25/2015 2:02:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 2:01:26 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:59:32 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:58:30 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:37:36 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:05:50 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:43:55 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
So fathers don't often get a look in for getting the child, but this is evidence, somehow, for them not being biased against them. Sound reasoning there. You wouldn't happen to be a feminist by any chance, OP?

Are you sure you read the original post carefully?

Yes. Did you?

Yes, I did. Maybe I'm just not understanding your original statement. I might not really know what "don't often get a look in", means. But are you saying the statistics presented in the OP suggest that there is bias against fathers getting custody?

Yes I am. The justifications are bullsh1t, I'm afraid.

Regardless of those additional justifications (they were not used to justify the actual point, by the way), how do you get that from the statistics presented in the OP?

Using my eyes and life experience.
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/25/2015 2:09:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 2:02:52 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 2:01:26 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:59:32 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:58:30 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:37:36 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 1:05:50 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:43:55 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
So fathers don't often get a look in for getting the child, but this is evidence, somehow, for them not being biased against them. Sound reasoning there. You wouldn't happen to be a feminist by any chance, OP?

Are you sure you read the original post carefully?

Yes. Did you?

Yes, I did. Maybe I'm just not understanding your original statement. I might not really know what "don't often get a look in", means. But are you saying the statistics presented in the OP suggest that there is bias against fathers getting custody?

Yes I am. The justifications are bullsh1t, I'm afraid.

Regardless of those additional justifications (they were not used to justify the actual point, by the way), how do you get that from the statistics presented in the OP?

Using my eyes and life experience.

I asked specifically about how you come to that conclusion using the statistics presented in the OP. "Life experience" is not an interpretation of statistics.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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2/25/2015 4:12:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 1:06:55 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:17:29 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I find it important to remind everyone that, once the proper variables are controlled for, the gender gap in pay also disappears. But, feminists don't seem to remember that as often.

I have heard this before, but I haven't seen the statistics. Do you have them? If not, I can look for myself (not going to burden you with looking it up all over again if you don't have the saved or the source in memory).

Here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/26/2015 12:13:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:14:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
There is a perception among some people that judges tend to favor the mother in custody disputes. But this assumption doesn't seem to be borne out by the statistics.

In 83% of the cases in which the mother ended up with custody, it was because the parties mutually agreed to grant the mother sole custody. [1] When fathers actually ask the court for custody, they receive either sole or joint custody 70% of the time. [2]

When fathers don't receive custody, there's something else to consider that might explain any remaining gender gap. The "best interest of the child" standard which courts use to decide custody takes into account a number of factors. Courts consider: whether one of the parents is a felon, alcoholic, or abuser; how much time each parent spent with the child during marriage; and which parent the child prefers. Men are 10 times more likely to be felons than women. [3] Men are twice as likely to be alcoholics as women. [4] And mothers spend twice as much time raising the children while the marriage is still intact, despite most families having two wage earners. [1] It is easy to speculate that the children are more likely to express a desire to live with the mother if she spends twice as much time with them. Men are also 9 times more likely to be domestic abusers than women. [5] These are all gender neutral explanations that might explain any remaining gender gap.

So do you think that men are treated unfairly in Family Court?

== Sources ==

[1] http://divorcesupport.about.com...
[2] http://amptoons.com...
[3] http://www.prisonpolicy.org...
[4] http://www.yale.edu...
[5] http://phys.org...

Thanks, this was a great post. I had absorbed some vague notions about the subject through little more than cultural osmosis, and it's refreshing to have them challenged.
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Gustav_Adolf_II
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2/26/2015 1:09:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 12:02:47 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I am involved in a custody dispute with my daughter's mother at the moment, unfortunately it is still ongoing so I can't report as to the justice of it because it isn't done. Suffice to say I am an awesome father and my four year-old daughter desperately wants me to be in her life more than I am legally able to at the moment, and whether this story has a happy ending will be relevant to your research. I cannot be detailed right now however, she knows I use this site and has stopped at nothing to strengthen her case and if I say something about it here I can be assured I'll be hearing about it from her lawyer during our trial. It will be a couple months before everything is resolved and I can report on it.

I can say I am nervous about the outcome, my daughter depends on me for emotional/intellectual/physical/spiritual support (these are the four areas social-workers use to describe "the whole child") and if I am unable to be a big-enough part in her life she is not going to understand why. Young children don't understand laws, they only know that you are either there or you aren't. I had worked out a tentative schedule with her mother at one point through mediation, but unfortunately it fell through and I am only allowed to see her on the weekends now because that's all I could get at the hearing until the case is settled (she made accusations of me and they are giving her the benefit of the doubt in the interim). When we had made the schedule, I got her more often and during the week for a while there, and I showed her the schedule so she would understand. I pointed at each day and said you see mommy here, daddy here, mommy, daddy, mommy, etc. When our schedule fell through (she changed her mind and wanted me to only have her on the weekends again) my daughter was hurt and was saying "mommy, daddy, mommy, daddy" because she was expressing sorrow and confusion about not being able to see us on alternating days like I promised her. You guys can't relate to what it feels like, to promise your daughter you are going to be there for her and then have it legally ripped away from you while your daughter is too confused to know that it's not your fault because you're being forced not to see her. In her eyes, I'm simply choosing not to see her. I can't convey to her how our legal system works. To her, she's simply not good enough to warrant my time and energy. I'm not there for her because she's not worth being there for. I can only hope that lack of security is not permanently damaging her, I mean I do see her on the weekends but whether that is enough I do not know.

I can somewhat understand how your daughter feels right now. When my parents got divorced my dad kept trying to get more time with me and my sisters, but either my mother, the courts, or both would refuse and so it went nowhere. Eventually my mother got full custody of me and my sisters and my father had no visitation rights. I felt so alone and scared without my dad.
"Quoting yourself only makes you look like an arrogant jerk" - Gustav_Adolf_II
Wylted
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2/27/2015 6:24:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
When I went through this in Florida, I was treated extremely fairly. Me and mY child's mother literally split custody right down the middle. She didn't respect the arrangement but that is not the courts fault.

It is probably my fault for not wanting to see her face the legal consequences of her actions.
Wylted
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2/27/2015 6:26:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Then again maybe there was bias there. I would have probably been arrested for kidnapping had I acted like her.
lamerde
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2/27/2015 10:36:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 12:17:29 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I find it important to remind everyone that, once the proper variables are controlled for, the gender gap in pay also disappears. But, feminists don't seem to remember that as often.

Reported for derailing and I would encourage others to do so.
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2/28/2015 2:50:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 10:36:55 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:17:29 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I find it important to remind everyone that, once the proper variables are controlled for, the gender gap in pay also disappears. But, feminists don't seem to remember that as often.

Reported for derailing and I would encourage others to do so.

How, exactly, is this derailing? This is obviously a related topic. I suppose feminists consider anyone who dare bring facts into a debate are "derailing". That is, derailing your ignorant feminist nonsense.
lamerde
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2/28/2015 2:52:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/28/2015 2:50:17 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:

How, exactly, is this derailing? This is obviously a related topic. I suppose feminists consider anyone who dare bring facts into a debate are "derailing". That is, derailing your ignorant feminist nonsense.

This thread was neither about feminism nor the wage gap. You have derailed it with your petty nonsense.

At 2/25/2015 12:17:29 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
I find it important to remind everyone that, once the proper variables are controlled for, the gender gap in pay also disappears. But, feminists don't seem to remember that as often.

This post has absolutely squat to do with the OP or any posts before it.
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lamerde
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2/28/2015 2:54:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/28/2015 2:50:17 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:

Essentially, all you wanted to do was whine and cry about something unrelated. Create your own thread. You post added zero value to this thread and only served to derail it.
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That1User
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2/28/2015 3:13:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:14:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:

. Men are also 9 times more likely to be domestic abusers than women.


I can confirm this, when my parents got divorced my father lost custody of me because he was an abusive drug addict. Thankfullly he's not an abusive drug addict anymore with his new family.
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