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Why do Anti-Gay Conservatives do this?

briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/6/2015 9:20:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have noticed for a while now that people who are anti-gay are adamant about "protecting their beliefs" and crying persecution when someone who opposes their views expresses the fact that they are very discriminatory and wrong. These same people also claim it's the other way around when clearly that is not the case. Despite what some people assume about me, I personally do not have a problem with people disagreeing with me, but if their views are based on lies, bias, hypocrisy etc... and if I dare point this out, I am suddenly wrong for doing so and accused of "not accepting other's beliefs". However disagreeing would not be an issue if that was the only thing they did, but it's not.

The most famous example of this issue would be the Chic-Fil-A controversy, the CEO donated millions to anti-gay organizations like the FRC (Family Research Council) and the Marriage and Family Foundation who make up lies about homosexuality, linking it to child rape, claiming gays are out to 'destroy families and marriage' and paying politicians and law makers to pass and support discriminatory laws against the LGBT community. Anti-gay people are quick to protect and argue on behalf of someone who donated money to anti-gay organizations that attempt to pass laws that oppress the gay community, saying they have the right to "disagree" as if that's the only thing they did was "disagree" when that was clearly NOT the case. And when the gay community and it's supporters retaliate to something like this, we are suddenly the bigoted and intolerant ones. Are we expected to sit back and allow people who are against gays to discriminate against and oppress them under the law? Are we not entitled to our right to free speech and protest? Especially when our lives are directly affected by someone else's actions against us.

Then say things like "I disagree with the gay/lesbian civil rights argument. It doesn't mean I hate them." - which would be true, if you didn't blatantly support discriminating against gay people and deny them the same rights that you have. By doing exactly that, you are showing that you DO hate homosexuals, and believe they shouldn't be treated equally in society. How is this not bigoted? I don't agree with Christianity, but you don't see me trying to pass laws to ban religion, donating money to anti-Christian organizations and closing down churches because I don't agree with them. The same applies to gay rights issues, you can disagree with homosexuality or same-sex marriage all you want, but there is a fine line between disagreement and going out of your way to oppress those you disagree with.

They seem to love justifying bigotry, but don't seem to the like the taste of the food they dish out to everyone else. But as usual, I expect someone to try to deny and/or justify this nonsense or blame liberals for it in some way. It seems freedom of speech, and religion only applies to them and anyone who opposes this is intolerant for not tolerating intolerance or bigoted for not accepting bigotry.

Why does this happen? I find it very hypocritical and they don't only do it with gay rights, but with the majority of social issues.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.

Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/6/2015 10:32:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 9:20:30 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
Why does this happen? I find it very hypocritical and they don't only do it with gay rights, but with the majority of social issues.

Many people don't understand that freedom of speech restricts the government, not private citizens. America is full of those who say something stupid and offensive in public, and then, upon being told that this isn't acceptable by a casual observer, will moronically retort 'IT'S A FREE COUNTRY.' This phenomenon isn't restricted to conservative anti-gay activists, it's due to the fact that generations of people have been told that they have 'free speech' without explaining what free speech is, what justifies it, and when it applies.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/6/2015 10:36:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:32:05 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:20:30 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
Why does this happen? I find it very hypocritical and they don't only do it with gay rights, but with the majority of social issues.

Many people don't understand that freedom of speech restricts the government, not private citizens. America is full of those who say something stupid and offensive in public, and then, upon being told that this isn't acceptable by a casual observer, will moronically retort 'IT'S A FREE COUNTRY.' This phenomenon isn't restricted to conservative anti-gay activists, it's due to the fact that generations of people have been told that they have 'free speech' without explaining what free speech is, what justifies it, and when it applies.

Thank you, and I agree. I know it's not exclusive to anti-gay activists, but I just wanted to point out that this is a common issue I encounter with them.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.

In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/6/2015 10:46:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

No, again you are generalizing and assuming things about liberal ideologies. Clearly you are ignorant as to what liberals stand for. What "special privileges" are we pushing on behalf of the gay community? You sound exactly like the type of people I was describing in my original post.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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3/6/2015 10:48:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

On the topic of special privleges.... so, why exactly do churches not pay taxes again?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/6/2015 10:49:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:48:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

On the topic of special privleges.... so, why exactly do churches not pay taxes again?

Thank you, I was thinking the same exact thing!
Varrack
Posts: 2,410
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3/6/2015 11:04:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You've posted about this four times in a row. I'm starting to really believe you're a troll who can't tolerate anyone who disagrees with you.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/6/2015 11:08:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:46:29 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

No, again you are generalizing and assuming things about liberal ideologies. Clearly you are ignorant as to what liberals stand for. What "special privileges" are we pushing on behalf of the gay community? You sound exactly like the type of people I was describing in my original post.

My guess is hate speech laws, but that's a pretty controversial topic, and the Supreme Court would probably kill it over the First Amendment anyway.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Bennett91
Posts: 4,217
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3/6/2015 11:17:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

And what law is this? How how is asking for the right not to be fired for being gay a special privilege?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/6/2015 11:35:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 9:20:30 PM, briantheliberal wrote:

Then say things like "I disagree with the gay/lesbian civil rights argument. It doesn't mean I hate them." - which would be true, if you didn't blatantly support discriminating against gay people and deny them the same rights that you have. By doing exactly that, you are showing that you DO hate homosexuals, and believe they shouldn't be treated equally in society. How is this not bigoted? I don't agree with Christianity, but you don't see me trying to pass laws to ban religion, donating money to anti-Christian organizations and closing down churches because I don't agree with them. The same applies to gay rights issues, you can disagree with homosexuality or same-sex marriage all you want, but there is a fine line between disagreement and going out of your way to oppress those you disagree with.

How, exactly, can one disagree with the gay lifestyle, not hate them, and believe the best move for the state is to not allow SSM, WITHOUT you calling it hate? You are saying that the best they can do is abstain from the political process, otherwise, you label it as proof of hate. That is quite a corner you back people into.

Further, why does one have to hate or disagree with something, to oppose a law?

For the record, the hypocrisy is thus: (for simplicity, I'll say you and me)
You are okay with me disagreeing with you, but not in okay with my actions I may take (like voting or speaking).
You are okay with you taking actions that affect me and my views (like protected class and hate crime legislation).
That is hypocritical.

And, of course, many anti-gay folks are hypocritical, saying they want the government out of their church (don't force the church to perform a gay marriage), but wants to ban it based on the supposed church's teachings.

I personally find it hypocritical to argue for equality while seeking special rights (like protected class and hate crime status), but this is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Lastly, can you source the Chic-fil-A donations? I do not recall that, although it doesn't surprise me. I've always wondered how people know private donations.... As I recall, the issue with Chic-fil-A was the CEO literally stated his views, and that was the start of the hate. (and, yes, hate is an apt word) Also, they do not allow franchisees to be of low moral fiber, so that is discrimination.


They seem to love justifying bigotry, but don't seem to the like the taste of the food they dish out to everyone else. But as usual, I expect someone to try to deny and/or justify this nonsense or blame liberals for it in some way. It seems freedom of speech, and religion only applies to them and anyone who opposes this is intolerant for not tolerating intolerance or bigoted for not accepting bigotry.

You don't find not tolerating intolerance hypocritical? You are not being tolerant of others. It's like bullying bullies. It is hypocritical, but has the righteous indignation so you don't care.

Why does this happen? I find it very hypocritical and they don't only do it with gay rights, but with the majority of social issues.

Most people are hypocritical, especially on social issues. You want to support the things you like, and oppose the things you don't. It is hard to stay true to a principle when you through subjectivity around.
My work here is, finally, done.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/7/2015 12:15:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 11:04:14 PM, Varrack wrote:
You've posted about this four times in a row. I'm starting to really believe you're a troll who can't tolerate anyone who disagrees with you.

Piss off. Nobody forced you to come here. And exactly where did I post this? No where.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/7/2015 12:19:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 11:04:14 PM, Varrack wrote:
You've posted about this four times in a row. I'm starting to really believe you're a troll who can't tolerate anyone who disagrees with you.

Also, thank you for proving my point. This post was specifically directed towards people like you who get offended when someone opposes you, or points out your ignorance, intolerance and hypocrisy. The only troll here is you and you need to find something productive to do instead of spewing ignorance on all of my forum posts. You are quick to call me 'intolerant' when you are in fact intolerant. Goodbye.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/7/2015 12:22:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 11:08:09 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:46:29 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

No, again you are generalizing and assuming things about liberal ideologies. Clearly you are ignorant as to what liberals stand for. What "special privileges" are we pushing on behalf of the gay community? You sound exactly like the type of people I was describing in my original post.

My guess is hate speech laws, but that's a pretty controversial topic, and the Supreme Court would probably kill it over the First Amendment anyway.

Why am I not aware of these 'hate speech laws' ? I have literally never heard of such a thing before and I avidly keep up with gay rights issues.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/7/2015 12:28:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 12:22:24 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 11:08:09 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:46:29 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

No, again you are generalizing and assuming things about liberal ideologies. Clearly you are ignorant as to what liberals stand for. What "special privileges" are we pushing on behalf of the gay community? You sound exactly like the type of people I was describing in my original post.

My guess is hate speech laws, but that's a pretty controversial topic, and the Supreme Court would probably kill it over the First Amendment anyway.

Why am I not aware of these 'hate speech laws' ? I have literally never heard of such a thing before and I avidly keep up with gay rights issues.

Mostly they've been passed in other countries, discussion in the US is more theoretical because our constitutional restrictions on the abrogation of free speech are the toughest in the world. Even if the law passed it probably wouldn't last.

http://www.npr.org...

Personally, I detest the idea of hate speech laws, because they cannot be reconciled with the basic principles of free speech at all.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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3/7/2015 12:29:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:46:29 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

No, again you are generalizing and assuming things about liberal ideologies. Clearly you are ignorant as to what liberals stand for. What "special privileges" are we pushing on behalf of the gay community? You sound exactly like the type of people I was describing in my original post.

Okay. So you don't support those dumb "hate speech" laws that violate free speech?

How about quotas?

Or laws that "ban discrimination" by stomping on the freedom of association on the part of businesses and individuals?
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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3/7/2015 12:30:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 10:48:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

On the topic of special privleges.... so, why exactly do churches not pay taxes again?

I'm against the government so I say abolish taxation period. Also, I think Churches are more deserving than people who wear drag.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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3/7/2015 12:31:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 11:17:06 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

And what law is this? How how is asking for the right not to be fired for being gay a special privilege?

Because your employer has the right to hire and fire whoever he wants for whatever reason he wants. That's called freedom of association.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/7/2015 12:35:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 12:29:34 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:46:29 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

No, again you are generalizing and assuming things about liberal ideologies. Clearly you are ignorant as to what liberals stand for. What "special privileges" are we pushing on behalf of the gay community? You sound exactly like the type of people I was describing in my original post.


Okay. So you don't support those dumb "hate speech" laws that violate free speech?

How about quotas?

Or laws that "ban discrimination" by stomping on the freedom of association on the part of businesses and individuals?

The discrimination laws only apply to businesses that register as public and are supported by public taxpayer dollars in both public infrastructure and various subsidies. If someone wants to discriminate, they are more than welcome to run a private business. But if they're receiving gay tax dollars, they can't then turn gay customers away.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/7/2015 1:01:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/6/2015 11:35:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:20:30 PM, briantheliberal wrote:

Then say things like "I disagree with the gay/lesbian civil rights argument. It doesn't mean I hate them." - which would be true, if you didn't blatantly support discriminating against gay people and deny them the same rights that you have. By doing exactly that, you are showing that you DO hate homosexuals, and believe they shouldn't be treated equally in society. How is this not bigoted? I don't agree with Christianity, but you don't see me trying to pass laws to ban religion, donating money to anti-Christian organizations and closing down churches because I don't agree with them. The same applies to gay rights issues, you can disagree with homosexuality or same-sex marriage all you want, but there is a fine line between disagreement and going out of your way to oppress those you disagree with.

How, exactly, can one disagree with the gay lifestyle, not hate them, and believe the best move for the state is to not allow SSM, WITHOUT you calling it hate? You are saying that the best they can do is abstain from the political process, otherwise, you label it as proof of hate. That is quite a corner you back people into.

It's not the disagreement that is hateful, it's going out of their way to oppress those they disagree with, either through the law or on a social level. Anyone can disagree or oppose same-sex marriage, but the logical thing to do is not marry the same sex. There is no point in preventing those who want to from doing so because they disagree with it.

Further, why does one have to hate or disagree with something, to oppose a law?

It's not just about one law, it's about gay rights and issues in general. What else would it be but hate that causes someone to believe certain people deserve less rights than they do? If I said all Christians didn't deserve the rights that I am entitled to as a citizen of this country, and went out of my way to make that a reality, using the law and political power to carry that out, I would expect to be called a bigot, because that idea in itself is based on bigotry and hatred, even if it's not blatantly obvious or malicious.

For the record, the hypocrisy is thus: (for simplicity, I'll say you and me)
You are okay with me disagreeing with you, but not in okay with my actions I may take (like voting or speaking).

It depends on what you're voting or speaking for. If you were voting to take away my rights, then it becomes my problem and I will not be okay with that. Just like you wouldn't like me doing the same thing to you.

You are okay with you taking actions that affect me and my views (like protected class and hate crime legislation).
That is hypocritical.

What are you talking about? Unless I am reading this incorrectly, it sounds like you are turning this issue around on me again. If so, please don't start making up things, saying things that are irrelevant to this conversation, or assuming anything about what I believe.

And, of course, many anti-gay folks are hypocritical, saying they want the government out of their church (don't force the church to perform a gay marriage), but wants to ban it based on the supposed church's teachings.

Yes, that is true. I don't believe churches should be forced to perform gay marriages, but they should keep their beliefs out of legislation as well.

I personally find it hypocritical to argue for equality while seeking special rights (like protected class and hate crime status), but this is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Those are not "special rights" because they also apply to heterosexuals. Under protected class laws, heterosexuals are also protected from discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Lastly, can you source the Chic-fil-A donations? I do not recall that, although it doesn't surprise me. I've always wondered how people know private donations.... As I recall, the issue with Chic-fil-A was the CEO literally stated his views, and that was the start of the hate. (and, yes, hate is an apt word) Also, they do not allow franchisees to be of low moral fiber, so that is discrimination.

They donated over $2 million to anti-gay organizations in 2010 alone. What the CEO said about his views on gay marriage was not the start of the controversy, he said it after his donations became public knowledge.
http://www.businessinsider.com...

They seem to love justifying bigotry, but don't seem to the like the taste of the food they dish out to everyone else. But as usual, I expect someone to try to deny and/or justify this nonsense or blame liberals for it in some way. It seems freedom of speech, and religion only applies to them and anyone who opposes this is intolerant for not tolerating intolerance or bigoted for not accepting bigotry.

You don't find not tolerating intolerance hypocritical? You are not being tolerant of others. It's like bullying bullies. It is hypocritical, but has the righteous indignation so you don't care.

Nobody is obligated to tolerate intolerance. That is, by definition, contradictory.

Why does this happen? I find it very hypocritical and they don't only do it with gay rights, but with the majority of social issues.

Most people are hypocritical, especially on social issues. You want to support the things you like, and oppose the things you don't. It is hard to stay true to a principle when you through subjectivity around.

But I don't force the things I don't like on everyone else. As I mentioned before, I oppose religion, but I don't force that opposition in the law and attempt to ban the practice of religion for everyone else, close down churches, mosques etc... or even remove religion as a protected class.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/7/2015 1:09:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 12:28:33 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/7/2015 12:22:24 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 11:08:09 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:46:29 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

No, again you are generalizing and assuming things about liberal ideologies. Clearly you are ignorant as to what liberals stand for. What "special privileges" are we pushing on behalf of the gay community? You sound exactly like the type of people I was describing in my original post.

My guess is hate speech laws, but that's a pretty controversial topic, and the Supreme Court would probably kill it over the First Amendment anyway.

Why am I not aware of these 'hate speech laws' ? I have literally never heard of such a thing before and I avidly keep up with gay rights issues.

Mostly they've been passed in other countries, discussion in the US is more theoretical because our constitutional restrictions on the abrogation of free speech are the toughest in the world. Even if the law passed it probably wouldn't last.

http://www.npr.org...

Personally, I detest the idea of hate speech laws, because they cannot be reconciled with the basic principles of free speech at all.

But if those laws are not American based, I don't really see how they apply to me. I am against them as well, but they are not in my jurisdiction, as a citizen of the U.S. I have no power over laws passed in France or any other country. Also those laws aren't exclusive to gays, but any protected class including religion, and it wasn't the gay community that advocated for them to be passed.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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3/7/2015 1:13:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 12:30:56 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:48:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

On the topic of special privleges.... so, why exactly do churches not pay taxes again?


I'm against the government so I say abolish taxation period. Also, I think Churches are more deserving than people who wear drag.

Because that is of course the same thing as hetero or homosexuality.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/7/2015 1:21:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 12:29:34 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:46:29 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

No, again you are generalizing and assuming things about liberal ideologies. Clearly you are ignorant as to what liberals stand for. What "special privileges" are we pushing on behalf of the gay community? You sound exactly like the type of people I was describing in my original post.


Okay. So you don't support those dumb "hate speech" laws that violate free speech?

No, actually I don't support limited freedom of speech, but freedom of speech does not equate freedom of consequence. If you say something offensive, expect consequences.

How about quotas?

Again, no.

Or laws that "ban discrimination" by stomping on the freedom of association on the part of businesses and individuals?

This I do support, because "freedom of association" does not justify discrimination against protected classes, especially when the scales of power leans in favor of the majority, that is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/7/2015 1:28:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 12:31:46 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 11:17:06 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

And what law is this? How how is asking for the right not to be fired for being gay a special privilege?


Because your employer has the right to hire and fire whoever he wants for whatever reason he wants. That's called freedom of association.

So I assume, hypothetically speaking, you would be okay with everyone not hiring or firing you for whatever reason and being unemployed for the rest of your life? Be honest.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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3/7/2015 1:35:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 1:28:43 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/7/2015 12:31:46 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 11:17:06 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

And what law is this? How how is asking for the right not to be fired for being gay a special privilege?


Because your employer has the right to hire and fire whoever he wants for whatever reason he wants. That's called freedom of association.

So I assume, hypothetically speaking, you would be okay with everyone not hiring or firing you for whatever reason and being unemployed for the rest of your life? Be honest.

I would not be okay with it. I'm also not ok with being called names. But, me not being ok with something does not mean I think the state should use force to correct my misfortune.

I'm not ok with someone farting on me. Doesn't mean it should be illegal.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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3/7/2015 2:09:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 1:35:48 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/7/2015 1:28:43 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/7/2015 12:31:46 AM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 11:17:06 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:41:18 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:33:43 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:30:53 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/6/2015 10:25:21 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 3/6/2015 9:46:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
Brian. Are you as strongly against Muslim countries stoning gays as you are America not giving them enough special legal privileges and protections over everyone else?

Yes, but I fail to see what Muslim countries have to do with American social issues.



Well. It's just that American liberals often seem to think that people are racist for noticing how much worse the Muslim world treats gays compared to how we do.

I have never heard a liberal say that, and I surely don't think that. But homophobia is a problem in everywhere. And Islam isn't even a race, it's a religion.


In America, liberals are pushing for gays to get special privileges. Laws that make hurting their feelings illegal, for example.

And what law is this? How how is asking for the right not to be fired for being gay a special privilege?


Because your employer has the right to hire and fire whoever he wants for whatever reason he wants. That's called freedom of association.

So I assume, hypothetically speaking, you would be okay with everyone not hiring or firing you for whatever reason and being unemployed for the rest of your life? Be honest.


I would not be okay with it. I'm also not ok with being called names. But, me not being ok with something does not mean I think the state should use force to correct my misfortune.

You say that, until it actually happens. But because you are privileged enough for it not to happen to you, you are perfectly okay with the fact that it happens to other people. Personally I find that to be biased, hypocritical and not to mention selfish and callous.

I'm not ok with someone farting on me. Doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Farting on someone (without their consent) is illegal, and is considered public nuisance and/or harassment. Just saying. But in no way is this comparable to someone being discriminated against because of their sexual orientation or the color of their skin.