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Atlas Shrugged

Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/9/2015 9:42:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

Have you seen gold and mirrors and mountains, too?
My work here is, finally, done.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/9/2015 9:43:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:42:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

Have you seen gold and mirrors and mountains, too?

Oh yes. What about you? Have you seen concrete and steel and rugged manly lines?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/9/2015 9:45:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:43:30 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:42:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

Have you seen gold and mirrors and mountains, too?

Oh yes. What about you? Have you seen concrete and steel and rugged manly lines?

No, but I've heard stories about them. Namely Atlas Shrugged.
My work here is, finally, done.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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3/9/2015 10:01:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

OK, how about the economy, politics and behavior of rich people?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/9/2015 10:12:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 10:01:46 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

OK, how about the economy, politics and behavior of rich people?

Lillian Rearden I think was at least to some point accurate, I see her as a less well done and less mildly sympathetic Daisy. A 'careless person', as Gatsby put it. As to the good ones, I think that they were more based on the 'captains of industry' types which didn't exist any more.

Atlas Shrugged wasn't really about the economy as much as it was about politics and society.

As for Politics, Atlas Shrugged is HIGHLY romanticized; that's Rand's style. So of course we won't see those exact scenarios play out. But the mismanagement of central planning was demonstrated pretty well in the Soviet Union, and Dr. Ferris is heavily reminiscent of Trofim Lyshenko. Stadler is another of the better-done characters, as he is heavily corrupted by his dependence on political funding, and the weapon which he created ends up in the hands of brutes who cannot understand the significance of it. The strike is basically a brain drain on a grand scale, which is a very real problem. The drive for nationalization is also apparent in many third world countries.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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3/10/2015 12:15:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

Yes. I saw a man today and I can tell you that he is a man.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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3/10/2015 1:22:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 10:12:32 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:01:46 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

OK, how about the economy, politics and behavior of rich people?

Lillian Rearden I think was at least to some point accurate, I see her as a less well done and less mildly sympathetic Daisy. A 'careless person', as Gatsby put it. As to the good ones, I think that they were more based on the 'captains of industry' types which didn't exist any more.

Atlas Shrugged wasn't really about the economy as much as it was about politics and society.

As for Politics, Atlas Shrugged is HIGHLY romanticized; that's Rand's style. So of course we won't see those exact scenarios play out. But the mismanagement of central planning was demonstrated pretty well in the Soviet Union, and Dr. Ferris is heavily reminiscent of Trofim Lyshenko. Stadler is another of the better-done characters, as he is heavily corrupted by his dependence on political funding, and the weapon which he created ends up in the hands of brutes who cannot understand the significance of it. The strike is basically a brain drain on a grand scale, which is a very real problem. The drive for nationalization is also apparent in many third world countries.

Do you think Atlas Shrugged is something we should regard as a significantly important conservative political philosophy?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/10/2015 11:31:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

Every single day.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/10/2015 11:34:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/10/2015 1:22:43 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:12:32 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:01:46 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

OK, how about the economy, politics and behavior of rich people?

Lillian Rearden I think was at least to some point accurate, I see her as a less well done and less mildly sympathetic Daisy. A 'careless person', as Gatsby put it. As to the good ones, I think that they were more based on the 'captains of industry' types which didn't exist any more.

Atlas Shrugged wasn't really about the economy as much as it was about politics and society.

As for Politics, Atlas Shrugged is HIGHLY romanticized; that's Rand's style. So of course we won't see those exact scenarios play out. But the mismanagement of central planning was demonstrated pretty well in the Soviet Union, and Dr. Ferris is heavily reminiscent of Trofim Lyshenko. Stadler is another of the better-done characters, as he is heavily corrupted by his dependence on political funding, and the weapon which he created ends up in the hands of brutes who cannot understand the significance of it. The strike is basically a brain drain on a grand scale, which is a very real problem. The drive for nationalization is also apparent in many third world countries.

Do you think Atlas Shrugged is something we should regard as a significantly important conservative political philosophy?

No, it is a fictional story that used Ayn Rand's personal philosophy as a framework. There are much better philosophical works that represent Conservative political philosophy.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/10/2015 4:31:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
On a related note if you want to see liberal philosophy by it's greatest mind, read one of Michael Moore's books.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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3/10/2015 6:19:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I apologize that many of you cannot deduce the question, I'll try to make it simpler for you next time.

Atlas Shrugged is a cornerstone of Republican philosophy that is plain to see, but is it worthy of that level of importance, is it sound thinking or is it a fairy tale?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/10/2015 7:28:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/10/2015 6:19:41 PM, Accipiter wrote:
I apologize that many of you cannot deduce the question, I'll try to make it simpler for you next time.

Atlas Shrugged is a cornerstone of Republican philosophy that is plain to see,

No it isn't. I like the woman but that is Bull Shiv

but is it worthy of that level of importance, is it sound thinking or is it a fairy tale?

The story is used Rand's philosophy as a framework but it is fictional. It is important only for it's literary value.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/10/2015 10:34:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/10/2015 1:22:43 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:12:32 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:01:46 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

OK, how about the economy, politics and behavior of rich people?

Lillian Rearden I think was at least to some point accurate, I see her as a less well done and less mildly sympathetic Daisy. A 'careless person', as Gatsby put it. As to the good ones, I think that they were more based on the 'captains of industry' types which didn't exist any more.

Atlas Shrugged wasn't really about the economy as much as it was about politics and society.

As for Politics, Atlas Shrugged is HIGHLY romanticized; that's Rand's style. So of course we won't see those exact scenarios play out. But the mismanagement of central planning was demonstrated pretty well in the Soviet Union, and Dr. Ferris is heavily reminiscent of Trofim Lyshenko. Stadler is another of the better-done characters, as he is heavily corrupted by his dependence on political funding, and the weapon which he created ends up in the hands of brutes who cannot understand the significance of it. The strike is basically a brain drain on a grand scale, which is a very real problem. The drive for nationalization is also apparent in many third world countries.

Do you think Atlas Shrugged is something we should regard as a significantly important conservative political philosophy?

It really isn't. Conservatives like to wave the book around, but Rand detested mainstream American conservatism. It has a pretty huge influence on some camps of libertarian political philosophy, and some of them have been pulled into the conservative fold, but most share Rand's distaste for modern conservatism.

Mostly, conservatives make cringe-worthy misinterpretations of Rand's points that would have had her spitting fire were she still alive. For example, painting modern CEOs as 'job creators'. Most of Rand's villains were wealthy crony capitalists and businessmen who knew little about their industries, and instead survived and eventually thrived on political pull and graft. Modern wealthy people, for the most part, aren't John Galts, Hank Reardens, and Dagny Taggarts. They're James Taggarts, Lillian Reardens, and Oren Boyles. There's one part where Francisco D'Anconia deliberately entices undeservedly wealthy men into investing in his mines so that he can destroy their fortunes, which they hadn't rightfully earned through creating something of value. Atlas Shrugged isn't pro rich, it's pro ability, and actually has an extremely vicious anti-wealthy streak which wouldn't sit well with most conservatives, if they stopped waving it around and actually read it.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/11/2015 12:00:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/10/2015 10:34:15 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/10/2015 1:22:43 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:12:32 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:01:46 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

OK, how about the economy, politics and behavior of rich people?

Lillian Rearden I think was at least to some point accurate, I see her as a less well done and less mildly sympathetic Daisy. A 'careless person', as Gatsby put it. As to the good ones, I think that they were more based on the 'captains of industry' types which didn't exist any more.

Atlas Shrugged wasn't really about the economy as much as it was about politics and society.

As for Politics, Atlas Shrugged is HIGHLY romanticized; that's Rand's style. So of course we won't see those exact scenarios play out. But the mismanagement of central planning was demonstrated pretty well in the Soviet Union, and Dr. Ferris is heavily reminiscent of Trofim Lyshenko. Stadler is another of the better-done characters, as he is heavily corrupted by his dependence on political funding, and the weapon which he created ends up in the hands of brutes who cannot understand the significance of it. The strike is basically a brain drain on a grand scale, which is a very real problem. The drive for nationalization is also apparent in many third world countries.

Do you think Atlas Shrugged is something we should regard as a significantly important conservative political philosophy?

It really isn't. Conservatives like to wave the book around, but Rand detested mainstream American conservatism. It has a pretty huge influence on some camps of libertarian political philosophy, and some of them have been pulled into the conservative fold, but most share Rand's distaste for modern conservatism.

Mostly, conservatives make cringe-worthy misinterpretations of Rand's points that would have had her spitting fire were she still alive. For example, painting modern CEOs as 'job creators'. Most of Rand's villains were wealthy crony capitalists and businessmen who knew little about their industries, and instead survived and eventually thrived on political pull and graft. Modern wealthy people, for the most part, aren't John Galts, Hank Reardens, and Dagny Taggarts. They're James Taggarts, Lillian Reardens, and Oren Boyles. There's one part where Francisco D'Anconia deliberately entices undeservedly wealthy men into investing in his mines so that he can destroy their fortunes, which they hadn't rightfully earned through creating something of value. Atlas Shrugged isn't pro rich, it's pro ability, and actually has an extremely vicious anti-wealthy streak which wouldn't sit well with most conservatives, if they stopped waving it around and actually read it.

Rand wrote an essay entitled "Conservatism: An Obituary" (http://vnnforum.com...)... she would DEFINITELY hate modern-day Republicans talking about her as if her beliefs were compatible with their platform. She was so against the corruption of her ideas that she hated the Libertarian movement of the 70s and 80s, which was much more in-line with her philosophy than modern-day conservatism is.

@Accipiter - have you actually read anything Rand wrote? I'm curious.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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3/11/2015 11:11:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 12:00:33 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 3/10/2015 10:34:15 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/10/2015 1:22:43 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:12:32 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 10:01:46 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:33:23 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I've seen trains, fur coats, bridges, politicians, skyscrapers and cigars. Could you be more specific?

OK, how about the economy, politics and behavior of rich people?

Lillian Rearden I think was at least to some point accurate, I see her as a less well done and less mildly sympathetic Daisy. A 'careless person', as Gatsby put it. As to the good ones, I think that they were more based on the 'captains of industry' types which didn't exist any more.

Atlas Shrugged wasn't really about the economy as much as it was about politics and society.

As for Politics, Atlas Shrugged is HIGHLY romanticized; that's Rand's style. So of course we won't see those exact scenarios play out. But the mismanagement of central planning was demonstrated pretty well in the Soviet Union, and Dr. Ferris is heavily reminiscent of Trofim Lyshenko. Stadler is another of the better-done characters, as he is heavily corrupted by his dependence on political funding, and the weapon which he created ends up in the hands of brutes who cannot understand the significance of it. The strike is basically a brain drain on a grand scale, which is a very real problem. The drive for nationalization is also apparent in many third world countries.

Do you think Atlas Shrugged is something we should regard as a significantly important conservative political philosophy?

It really isn't. Conservatives like to wave the book around, but Rand detested mainstream American conservatism. It has a pretty huge influence on some camps of libertarian political philosophy, and some of them have been pulled into the conservative fold, but most share Rand's distaste for modern conservatism.

Mostly, conservatives make cringe-worthy misinterpretations of Rand's points that would have had her spitting fire were she still alive. For example, painting modern CEOs as 'job creators'. Most of Rand's villains were wealthy crony capitalists and businessmen who knew little about their industries, and instead survived and eventually thrived on political pull and graft. Modern wealthy people, for the most part, aren't John Galts, Hank Reardens, and Dagny Taggarts. They're James Taggarts, Lillian Reardens, and Oren Boyles. There's one part where Francisco D'Anconia deliberately entices undeservedly wealthy men into investing in his mines so that he can destroy their fortunes, which they hadn't rightfully earned through creating something of value. Atlas Shrugged isn't pro rich, it's pro ability, and actually has an extremely vicious anti-wealthy streak which wouldn't sit well with most conservatives, if they stopped waving it around and actually read it.

Rand wrote an essay entitled "Conservatism: An Obituary" (http://vnnforum.com...)... she would DEFINITELY hate modern-day Republicans talking about her as if her beliefs were compatible with their platform. She was so against the corruption of her ideas that she hated the Libertarian movement of the 70s and 80s, which was much more in-line with her philosophy than modern-day conservatism is.

@Accipiter - have you actually read anything Rand wrote? I'm curious.

Yeah, Atlas Shrugged and Anthem. I read Anthem first which was why I read Atlas Shrugged. I was disappointed with Atlas Shrugged.
Accipiter
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3/11/2015 11:19:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/10/2015 7:28:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/10/2015 6:19:41 PM, Accipiter wrote:
I apologize that many of you cannot deduce the question, I'll try to make it simpler for you next time.

Atlas Shrugged is a cornerstone of Republican philosophy that is plain to see,

No it isn't. I like the woman but that is Bull Shiv

but is it worthy of that level of importance, is it sound thinking or is it a fairy tale?

The story is used Rand's philosophy as a framework but it is fictional. It is important only for it's literary value.

No it isn't is a really bad argument. Are you a religious conservative or something?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/11/2015 11:28:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 11:19:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/10/2015 7:28:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/10/2015 6:19:41 PM, Accipiter wrote:
I apologize that many of you cannot deduce the question, I'll try to make it simpler for you next time.

Atlas Shrugged is a cornerstone of Republican philosophy that is plain to see,

No it isn't. I like the woman but that is Bull Shiv

but is it worthy of that level of importance, is it sound thinking or is it a fairy tale?

The story is used Rand's philosophy as a framework but it is fictional. It is important only for it's literary value.

No it isn't is a really bad argument. Are you a religious conservative or something?

I'm a Libertarian so I find Rand's political philosophy appealing and similar to mine. I actually like her a lot, but I don't think it is fair or accurate to portray her as an intellectual that speaks for or founded Libertarian philosophy. I'd also not put other big names that I respect in that category either such as the Paul's
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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3/13/2015 3:40:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 11:28:23 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/11/2015 11:19:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/10/2015 7:28:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/10/2015 6:19:41 PM, Accipiter wrote:
I apologize that many of you cannot deduce the question, I'll try to make it simpler for you next time.

Atlas Shrugged is a cornerstone of Republican philosophy that is plain to see,

No it isn't. I like the woman but that is Bull Shiv

but is it worthy of that level of importance, is it sound thinking or is it a fairy tale?

The story is used Rand's philosophy as a framework but it is fictional. It is important only for it's literary value.

No it isn't is a really bad argument. Are you a religious conservative or something?

I'm a Libertarian so I find Rand's political philosophy appealing and similar to mine. I actually like her a lot, but I don't think it is fair or accurate to portray her as an intellectual that speaks for or founded Libertarian philosophy. I'd also not put other big names that I respect in that category either such as the Paul's

"Objectivism has been a significant influence among libertarians and American conservatives"

http://en.wikipedia.org...

So now you see that you are wrong.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/13/2015 3:50:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 3:40:37 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/11/2015 11:28:23 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/11/2015 11:19:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/10/2015 7:28:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/10/2015 6:19:41 PM, Accipiter wrote:
I apologize that many of you cannot deduce the question, I'll try to make it simpler for you next time.

Atlas Shrugged is a cornerstone of Republican philosophy that is plain to see,

No it isn't. I like the woman but that is Bull Shiv

but is it worthy of that level of importance, is it sound thinking or is it a fairy tale?

The story is used Rand's philosophy as a framework but it is fictional. It is important only for it's literary value.

No it isn't is a really bad argument. Are you a religious conservative or something?

I'm a Libertarian so I find Rand's political philosophy appealing and similar to mine. I actually like her a lot, but I don't think it is fair or accurate to portray her as an intellectual that speaks for or founded Libertarian philosophy. I'd also not put other big names that I respect in that category either such as the Paul's

"Objectivism has been a significant influence among libertarians and American conservatives"

http://en.wikipedia.org...

So now you see that you are wrong.

She is a bull dog just like Ann Coulter and Michael Moore. Just because she is a smarter bulldog, doesn't mean she isn't a bulldog.

She is not the brains of the Republican Party or libertarianism. I'm not even sure if any members of the intellectual elite belong to the Republican Party, though they certainly exist for Libertarians. Most mainstream political parties have influencers but no true brain behind them. They are just reactionary.

A good rule of thumb to remember is that when you see somebody that mean, aggressive and in your face, they are a bulldog for their movement and not the brain of it.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/13/2015 3:54:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Movements have brains, Bulldogs (some look like brains), brainwashed idiots (see talking heads on news and celebrities), the zombies and the cannon fodder (see protestors and lone nuts).

Recognizing each segment of a movement is key into knowing how to deal with them in different scenarios. If you see cannon fodder, you protect yourself. Don't associate or argue with the brainwashed, zombies. If you see a bulldog, call up your bulldog. If you see a brain, respect them, give them a wide berth and learn everything you can from them.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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3/14/2015 1:20:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 3:50:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/13/2015 3:40:37 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/11/2015 11:28:23 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/11/2015 11:19:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 3/10/2015 7:28:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/10/2015 6:19:41 PM, Accipiter wrote:
I apologize that many of you cannot deduce the question, I'll try to make it simpler for you next time.

Atlas Shrugged is a cornerstone of Republican philosophy that is plain to see,

No it isn't. I like the woman but that is Bull Shiv

but is it worthy of that level of importance, is it sound thinking or is it a fairy tale?

The story is used Rand's philosophy as a framework but it is fictional. It is important only for it's literary value.

No it isn't is a really bad argument. Are you a religious conservative or something?

I'm a Libertarian so I find Rand's political philosophy appealing and similar to mine. I actually like her a lot, but I don't think it is fair or accurate to portray her as an intellectual that speaks for or founded Libertarian philosophy. I'd also not put other big names that I respect in that category either such as the Paul's

"Objectivism has been a significant influence among libertarians and American conservatives"

http://en.wikipedia.org...

So now you see that you are wrong.

She is a bull dog just like Ann Coulter and Michael Moore. Just because she is a smarter bulldog, doesn't mean she isn't a bulldog.

She is not the brains of the Republican Party or libertarianism. I'm not even sure if any members of the intellectual elite belong to the Republican Party, though they certainly exist for Libertarians. Most mainstream political parties have influencers but no true brain behind them. They are just reactionary.

A good rule of thumb to remember is that when you see somebody that mean, aggressive and in your face, they are a bulldog for their movement and not the brain of it.

Brainwashed Bulldog zombies sounds like a Republican to me and Libertarianism is for people that have become ashamed of being a Republican.
YYW
Posts: 36,382
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3/14/2015 1:25:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I have never seen a circumstance where governmental regulation in a mixed economy hindered innovation in the way that Rand portrayed it. The fact that Europe, Japan, and the United States continue to advance, despite the fact that they are mixed economies really stands to suggest that Rand had no idea what she was talking about, in regard to the impact that government overreach has on the private sector. Government keeps the private sector in check, and the private sector keeps government in check. It's ok that there are people who believe in Rand's fantasy, but that's all it is... a fantasy.

Eventually, most people grow up and grow out of it.
Tsar of DDO
debate_power
Posts: 726
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3/14/2015 4:44:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

Yes, it's called Republican ideology. It's full of moral absolutes and disregard for disadvantaged people. The moral absolutes are taught to help people at a disadvantage from helping themselves through violence. The whole book seems like it wishes for there to be one person on Earth.
You can call me Mark if you like.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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3/14/2015 4:46:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:25:19 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

I have never seen a circumstance where governmental regulation in a mixed economy hindered innovation in the way that Rand portrayed it. The fact that Europe, Japan, and the United States continue to advance, despite the fact that they are mixed economies really stands to suggest that Rand had no idea what she was talking about, in regard to the impact that government overreach has on the private sector. Government keeps the private sector in check, and the private sector keeps government in check. It's ok that there are people who believe in Rand's fantasy, but that's all it is... a fantasy.

Eventually, most people grow up and grow out of it.

It seems to me like the daydream of a global tyrant who subjects all others to his will.
You can call me Mark if you like.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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3/15/2015 1:03:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 4:44:40 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 3/9/2015 9:16:01 PM, Accipiter wrote:
Has anyone seen anything in the real world resembling anything that was depicted in Atlas Shrugged?

Yes, it's called Republican ideology. It's full of moral absolutes and disregard for disadvantaged people. The moral absolutes are taught to help people at a disadvantage from helping themselves through violence. The whole book seems like it wishes for there to be one person on Earth.

Yes Republican ideology. That's probably why nothing they ever do works right.