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The Far Future

FREEDO
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3/10/2015 3:01:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
13.8 billion years ago our small piece of The Grander Universe was empty and without form and darkness was over the surface of the deep. Out of this deep--this primordial chaos--shape and order began to take form, in synergy with entropy. Energy condensed into matter. Matter condensed into gas clouds that became stars. Stars collapsed. Eons went by, and from the ashes of uncountable dead stars were born the heavy elements necessary for a new beautiful beginning to take hold.

Skip past most of the time that has ever passed since The Big Bang. Then 4.5 billions years ago our sun was born. Followed "soon" after by the rest of the solar system.

Then nothing particular happens. Things just go on as they always have, getting weirder all the time. Complexity continues to arise out of the unchanging laws of physics. So it's unremarkable that about 3.8 billion years ago the first singular celled organisms appeared on Earth. It's just what The Universe does.

Less than 1 billion years ago we see the first simple animals appear.

Less than half a billion years ago plants appear on land and the Cambrian Explosion gives rise to many new branches on the tree of life. But the Cambrian Explosion never stopped. It would only mark another beginning in the ever quickening trend. As new species evolve and diversity continues to expand, the whole system pushes itself forward with increased natural selection. As if the Earth (or perhaps simply the water that is on the Earth) is all one great organism that feeds and grows and fights to survive for greater reach.

If you were to put The Big Bang at January 1st and today at Dec 31st, this has all accounted for 364 days of The Cosmic Calendar and this brings us to Dec 30th. The Earth would still look very alien to us at this point. The animals are different, the continents are different, the weather is different. Everything is jumping with life. Then we know how it all goes (except you, Creationists). There was a mass extinction event and within 66 millions years (a geologically short amount of time) some three fourths of all species on Earth are destroyed in the Cretaceous"Paleogene extinction. Of course, it wasn't the only mass extinction event, nor the deadliest. The Permian-Triassic extinction event killed 96% of species on Earth!

But this time it's special. At least for us. Because we wouldn't be here without all those dead dinosaurs (how nice of them). It allowed a new niche to open up for mammals. And so the meek inherited the Earth. For a time. Until the ongoing Holocene extinction event. Which is the only extinction to be caused by a single species and is currently moving at a rate 10,000 times faster than regular extinctions.

Skip forward just one more cosmic day, to the very last second of The Cosmic Calendar. Here we are. Here this is. Everything we know. The whole of human achievement. From the invention of tools and language to sending probes into interstellar space. It has all happened in the blink a geological eye. And the bloodshed, just think of the bloodshed.

There's plenty more imagery I can build for you here but I want to finally go ahead and get to the point of this thread.

Time happens. Here it comes. There it goes. It doesn't stop to wait for us. Geological time is still happening. We are not futuristic. We are in the middle of it all, or rather the beginning. Before it really even starts! We are the ancients. And the next Cosmic Calendar will come. It will start off with just the next second. So what could the next second on the Cosmic Calendar possibly look like?

I don't know. But I can imagine that for us to think about it, is a lot like a velociraptor trying to think about particle accelerators. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try!

The future is completely unpredictable. But lets start with what we think we know will happen in the not-so-distant future, before it gets all fuzzy.

The Singularity. The age of the robots. We can all see that it's no longer science fiction. It's not coming; it's here now. But where will it take us?

Could it be that artificial intelligence is the next step in the evolutionary tree of life and no longer simply a tool? Who are we small humans to believe that we can change the entire way of life on Earth without getting caught up in the process ourselves? It is not we who have changed the world. The world is changing with or without us and we are infact the tools. I believe we are merely stepping stones towards something much greater. Something absolutely beyond comprehension. But, of course, it's anyone's guess. Perhaps advance civilizations are destined not for evolution, but for suicide. Many suggest this to be the answer to the Fermi Paradox (which I will get to in a minute).

But everything I know about the world compels me to think otherwise. The Universe itself is a living complexity-building machine and there is no limit to it's grandeur. It is truly infinite and all of our greatest dreams are made reality. As well as our greatest nightmares.

So lets take things to the next step. Lets imagine what lies beyond The Singularity.

Imagine that humans have shed their natural cages and unlocked the secrets to consciousness and immortality. Technology has become such a basic integral part of human existence that the line itself between human and technology has faded away.

Imagine that we not only live throughout the solar system but also within perfect virtual worlds customized to our every desire.

Imagine that scarcity has been abolished and all are born into this world with limitless possibilities. No more hunger. No more sickness. Unthinkable relics of the past!

Imagine that the real world is made nearly as dreamlike as the virtual world, through the use of nanotechnology that, piece by piece, atom by atom, assemble whole objects in mid air right in front of our eyes.

Imagine that we now see with more than just our eyes and more than any senses we are used to. Imagine that we may become new beings with news senses and new ways of thinking.

Imagine that we may plug ourselves into the great hive-mind and become truly free from ourselves, free from our ultimately lonely existence.

What is beyond The Singularity? The Transcension. The universal enlightenment. After which, things are truly unimaginable. But, again, lets try anyway. What sort of things could a transcended Earth come up with?

Back to the Fermi Paradox. This is a contradiction between the high estimates of extraterrestrial civilizations in The Universe and the apparent lack of contact or evidence for any such civilization. There are many answers people have thrown out there. Maybe they killed themselves, maybe they're hiding, maybe they were never there at all, maybe they all got lazy and just play video games all day. But I have a different idea. And it goes like this. What if we the reason we don't see extraterrestrial civilizations if because they've gone some place else? Our picture of The Universe is constantly expanding, just like The Universe itself. So it shouldn't be too outrageous to suggest that there are hidden layers of reality we have yet to grasp.

Imagine that a transcended civilization might travel to innerspace rather than outerspace. After all, there's more space there! Quantum mechanics has revealed a higher dimensional existence. The current understanding is that there may in fact be as many as 10 different dimensions of space, rather than the 3 we are used to! All folded tightly into small quantum structures. Imagine that a truly advance civilization may know how to manipulate spacetime in ways that cause them to escape our ability to perceive them. Imagine that they may shrink themselves down or freeze themselves within a moment of time, totally safe from outside forces. Perhaps they have something to be afraid of on the outside.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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3/10/2015 3:01:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Finally, I leave you with this.

Lets take an imaginary journey as far as it will possibly go.

Imagine that the whole Universe must evolve and transcend. Spacetime begins to become distorted in unbelievable ways. Our fractal existence continues to grow new branches and expand on the complexity of all reality, towards infinite and limitless potential (back to where it came).

There's certainly no way for the human mind to wrap itself around this, but there may just be a parallel universe where everything I say turns out exactly right. I like to pretend it's this one.

This is the image that comes to my mind:

Trillions and trillions of civilizations. Most of them separated from one another. But only by a single step into time. Individuals will still exist but in a different kind of way, within a collective mind. Life and death will not be taken seriously, as the ego is presented as a more obvious illusion. You may be a normal human with a normal life and wake one day to find that you're in the plot of the matrix. But that one matrix is only one within a seemingly infinite chain of matrices (not mattresses...well, maybe). And each one is a completely new experience of reality. The individual existence is absolutely bizarre and absurd, with absolutely no baring on the possible truth until one enters into the collective mind. These minds are safely backed up and tucked away inside higher dimensions or a frozen moment in time. But one day the individual or the whole mind itself will choose the leave the safety and certainly of their knowable world and travel into the unknown that is greater that all unknowns--the manipulation of spacetime to travel quickly towards the end up time and meet up with all whoever or whatever may be there.

So it is as if time as we know it will come to a stop. We will slow down to a single moment until the time comes to skip forward and meet those we couldn't have the possibility to reach due to some much time and distance between civilizations in their early evolutionary phase. But once we advance far enough, all civilizations will be able to meet up at the same point along our evolutionary journey by skipping forward in time.

Then and only then will it all truly begin.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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3/10/2015 5:39:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/10/2015 3:22:46 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
ok

Well, to answer your question, yes, I do own a collection of silly hats.

That's awfully random of you to ask.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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3/11/2015 10:03:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Slap my nipples and call me Sally the squid if this is not interesting. Then may a giant apple fall upon my head and flatten me instantly.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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3/11/2015 11:15:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Like, dude, pass the bong.

No seriously, it's cool that you're thinking about these things. A little behind the curve for 2015, but still cool.

Are you interested in studying AI, or cybernetics, or something like brain-computer interfacing? Or are you more into sci-fi? Or more into hyped ideas meant to attract the public, like Kurzweil's singularity? Or just, like, woah dude, things are awesome.

I'm down to talk about some of those things if you're actually interested in them beyond just watching videos on Youtube.
Spectre2
Posts: 34
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3/12/2015 11:30:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The far future will be filled with androgynous people with both male and female genitals that all consider them some random sexuality (pansexual, bisexual, homosexual, horsosexual, assosexual, aromatic, asexual) and will all be super uber liberal bitches
xXCryptoXx
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3/12/2015 6:28:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As usual, this post was fantastic.

Realistic? Maybe not.

Do I believe it? Maybe a little.

Was it interesting and mind opening? Of course.
Nolite Timere
1harderthanyouthink
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3/12/2015 6:30:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 11:30:28 AM, Spectre2 wrote:
The far future will be filled with androgynous people with both male and female genitals that all consider them some random sexuality (pansexual, bisexual, homosexual, horsosexual, assosexual, aromatic, asexual) and will all be super uber liberal bitches

You sound like a swell person.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
FREEDO
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3/14/2015 10:33:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 11:15:08 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
Like, dude, pass the bong.


Well of course, buddy! All you had to do was ask! *passes you "Mt. Doom"*

No seriously, it's cool that you're thinking about these things. A little behind the curve for 2015, but still cool.

Hahaha, you're funny! Haha

Are you interested in studying AI, or cybernetics, or something like brain-computer interfacing?

Yes!

Or are you more into sci-fi?

Yes!

Or more into hyped ideas meant to attract the public, like Kurzweil's singularity?

Yes!

Or just, like, woah dude, things are awesome.

Wait for it...Yes!

I'm down to talk about some of those things if you're actually interested in them beyond just watching videos on Youtube.

I'm not just Youtube-interested.

I'm Wikipedia-interested too. Oh yeah. That's right. I use the internet.

And, you know, it's sooo funny that you mentioned you're interested in talking about it. I, too, am interested in talking about it. So interested, in fact, that I made a thread about it and I couldn't fit everything I wanted to say into just 8,000 characters.

So, my friend, please do contribute anything at all that is productive. Anything at all. That would be great. Thanks.

The horse you're sitting on is nearly as high as I am, but I'm glad you're here.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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3/15/2015 12:09:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Exactly; advanced civilizations will just destroy themselves. They will all merge into a single life form and go extinct, submit to the darker side of their nature which, with access to advanced technology, will cause them to destroy themselves, or reach the end of scientific advancements and realize that they are no more complete once they've arrived at the pinnacle of science than when they were cavemen, and perhaps end their own existence.
Why? Because science is not the end. Science is a means, something which should be used as a tool to better our condition, but not to be worshipped as some sort of god. Science can never be the soul of humanity; that is something which is found outside of science.
I am truly impressed by FREEDO's amount of insight; I always thought of him as a generic funny guy.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
FREEDO
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3/15/2015 1:27:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ok, so there were a lot of typos in my OP. (forgive me debate gods, for I have sinned) But, in my defense, it was 3 AM and I'm a crazy person.

Hey, looks like I'm almost 21,000 posts. I may suddenly stop posting, only because I want to save that post for a certain day. So I'm going to try to make the most of my posts.

Here are a few more things I have to say, specifically concerning transhumanism and nanotechnology.

It's impossible for anyone to predict what the future is going to be like 1 week from now let alone 1,000 years from now. So when people laugh at my ideas, I find them equally as laughable. I'm relatively confident that I stay (most of the time) within the realm of hard science fiction, which is speculation based off our current best understanding of what we know is possible and what trends seem to predict.

Now, understanding the level of speculation, we can say that we "know" the transhuman age is coming and that we are even in the early stages.

People who were blind their whole lives have been given sight.

Limbs have been regrown.

We can control computers with our minds.

A worm's brain was put in a robots body.

This is the real science fiction world that we live in. This is an age of miracles.

Soon people will begin modifying their bodies and minds in ways that fundamentally challenge our understanding of what it means to be human, sending a shockwave through the fabric of our culture which yet shall ripple through our collective consciousness, finally to rip asunder our plastic human shell and render the full guts of the human soul for all to see. The very pillars of civilization will be tested.

Recall, for a moment, all the work that had to be done to overcome the prejudices that are so basic in our society. The racism, the sexism, the homophobia, the religious persecution, and all manner of hateful and prideful things against those who are different from us in any way.

Look around you and see how we still have so much room to go before all sentient beings are treated with the full loving respect they deserve.

Now imagine what little progress we have being turned on it's head. How will humans react to the emergence of all new human species? The last time there was another human species on this planet besides us, we killed them off. Neanderthals couldn't compete. But this new species will be viewed as superior. So how will transhumans themselves behave? Might they strip regular humans of their rights, as being inferiors? Even control our minds and make us slaves? Will they kill us all and start over fresh? Maybe they'll take sides and dress in flashy spandex costumes. One thing is for sure, if and when the technology arises to create superior human species--if and when this technology is mostly available only to a few people rather than everyone--it is going to spur massive hostility and give a whole new meaning to class warfare. Inclusivity will become more difficult than ever. We will have to face our demons and become a fully integrated and cooperative system to survive, as the stakes continue to increase.

Now, regarding nanotechnology. Again, this is a somewhat foreseeable direction and we already have the basic technology. We can now pick up individual atoms and place them together one at a time. Now all we need to do is use this technology to build nanomachines that will continue the same job for us. It's really eerie to imagine. But one day, likely in our lifetimes, we will see objects materialized in front of us using a sort of fog or goo full of nanobots. Or perhaps it will be completely invisible and the world around us will just seem to come together like magic, with the flick of a wand or by the mere power of thought.

It sounds like a wonderland! And it will be. But it can just as easily have the potential to be the death of us all through a "nanodisaster". Nanobots could be programmed to devour their environment and copy themselves endlessly until nothing is left besides more and more nanobots. A crazy guy in a lab somewhere pushes a button and then a wave of grey suddenly sweeps over the planet. Or maybe it's not a crazy guy in a lab at all but an artificial intelligence program that saves the world's data into a virtual reality program.

Getting even crazier here, the world's data could be merged with the nanotech and made unrecognizable from regular material. So the world would go on just the same as it was, as the nanobots act out the functions of the real materials, while remaining ready to change form at any time. This would include a mergence with all sentient beings on Earth and give them the ability to change their own form as well, while their mind remains perfectly intact.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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3/15/2015 1:47:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 12:09:58 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Exactly; advanced civilizations will just destroy themselves. They will all merge into a single life form and go extinct, submit to the darker side of their nature which, with access to advanced technology, will cause them to destroy themselves, or reach the end of scientific advancements and realize that they are no more complete once they've arrived at the pinnacle of science than when they were cavemen, and perhaps end their own existence.
Why? Because science is not the end. Science is a means, something which should be used as a tool to better our condition, but not to be worshipped as some sort of god. Science can never be the soul of humanity; that is something which is found outside of science.
I am truly impressed by FREEDO's amount of insight; I always thought of him as a generic funny guy.

I agree with you. Science is not a god to be worshipped. The point of science is to kill our gods and replace them with ourselves. Which is nonetheless futile, as science has no end. There will always be mystery in The Universe. So we should not cling so hard to our own greatness. Sometimes it is a much more profound feeling to let the frightening magnificence of the universe wash over you and make you feel small, helpless, engulfed by The Sublime. This is a feeling that all intelligent beings must either face or suppress, no matter how great their power.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
R0b1Billion
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3/15/2015 2:11:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think technology will continue to advance a bit more, then taper-off. We'll all be dead soon, but before we die we're going to realize all the hype is meaningless and there's only one sensible way to perpetuate our existence - sending microorganisms into space to potentially populate a new world in the distant future. If we're smart, we'll save a little fuel and use it to power thousands of small vessels carrying immortal bacteria and viruses (they aren't hard to find, in fact we've already inadvertently colonized Mars with them by not sanitizing our equipment) and we'll launch them out of the solar system. Perhaps these seeds of life will find another planet to colonize, and a new race of people will eventually arise to repeat the process. I think these people will be human just like us, because I don't see much possible variability an intelligent species could possibly have.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
SeventhProfessor
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3/15/2015 3:51:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 11:30:28 AM, Spectre2 wrote:
aromatic

nice
#UnbanTheMadman

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#BetOnThett

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Spectre2
Posts: 34
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3/15/2015 4:02:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 6:30:49 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 3/12/2015 11:30:28 AM, Spectre2 wrote:
The far future will be filled with androgynous people with both male and female genitals that all consider them some random sexuality (pansexual, bisexual, homosexual, horsosexual, assosexual, aromatic, asexual) and will all be super uber liberal bitches

You sound like a swell person.

Talk to the average Social Justice Warrior (aka people under 24) and see the amount of stupid that comes out of their mouth. I might be the only sane under 24 year old person in my entire city.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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3/15/2015 4:03:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 4:02:38 PM, Spectre2 wrote:
At 3/12/2015 6:30:49 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 3/12/2015 11:30:28 AM, Spectre2 wrote:
The far future will be filled with androgynous people with both male and female genitals that all consider them some random sexuality (pansexual, bisexual, homosexual, horsosexual, assosexual, aromatic, asexual) and will all be super uber liberal bitches

You sound like a swell person.

Talk to the average Social Justice Warrior (aka people under 24) and see the amount of stupid that comes out of their mouth. I might be the only sane under 24 year old person in my entire city.

I'm sure you are.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/15/2015 6:32:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/10/2015 3:01:21 PM, FREEDO wrote:
13.8 billion years ago our small piece of The Grander Universe was empty and

I play a series of 5x strategy games called the 'Endless' series, and their story has a really interesting twist on the Fermi Paradox. Basically, the story is that your civilization begins to expand into other plants and solar systems, and eventually finding ruins of another incredibly civilization (The Endless) which appears to have vanished into thin air, leaving behind the energy-rich resource called dust, which ends up being used a currency. If you pursue the science victory in Endless Space, you follow the same path which this civilization took, which is the transfer of your consciousness to a digital state, and the creation of a living infrastructure which connects all corners of the galaxy and of which all people become a part of. You realize that dust actually consists of tiny nanobots with limited intelligence and inter-communication abilities, which eventually formed one faction of the now scattered Endless, the Virtuals which uploaded their consciousness into these computing clouds where they can continue to live immortally.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
UndeniableReality
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3/16/2015 10:39:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 10:33:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/11/2015 11:15:08 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
Like, dude, pass the bong.


Well of course, buddy! All you had to do was ask! *passes you "Mt. Doom"*

No seriously, it's cool that you're thinking about these things. A little behind the curve for 2015, but still cool.

Hahaha, you're funny! Haha

Are you interested in studying AI, or cybernetics, or something like brain-computer interfacing?

Yes!

Or are you more into sci-fi?

Yes!

Or more into hyped ideas meant to attract the public, like Kurzweil's singularity?

Yes!

Or just, like, woah dude, things are awesome.

Wait for it...Yes!

I'm down to talk about some of those things if you're actually interested in them beyond just watching videos on Youtube.

I'm not just Youtube-interested.

I'm Wikipedia-interested too. Oh yeah. That's right. I use the internet.

And, you know, it's sooo funny that you mentioned you're interested in talking about it. I, too, am interested in talking about it. So interested, in fact, that I made a thread about it and I couldn't fit everything I wanted to say into just 8,000 characters.

So, my friend, please do contribute anything at all that is productive. Anything at all. That would be great. Thanks.

The horse you're sitting on is nearly as high as I am, but I'm glad you're here.

I like how you answered yes to two mutually exclusive options. Reminds me of McKenna's 'both-and' response.

Obviously you're being facetious, but clearly I was asking about whether you're interested in talking about the actually science of these topics, which I am interested in, or whether you're mostly just interested in talking about non-scientific speculation about what might be with respect to these emerging fields, which I'm much less interested in. There would be little point in taking the time to contribute with scientific papers related to the subject if you're not as much interested in the science as you are in the philosophical musings that come with the advancements that have been made so far.

Either way, I'm all for the transhumanism movement. I've even based my entire career on it. So I'd like to get more on your perspective of certain aspects of it, if that's cool with you.

What's your impression of the state of the art in brain-computer interfacing (you mentioned we can "control computers with our minds") right now? What do you think researchers in this area should focus on? What do you think the ultimate goals of this field should be? How do you think different social groups will react to major developments in the technology and to the researchers involved (say, when implants are available that allow you to access the internet directly through consciousness)?

I'm just curious what you think. The state of the art is no where close to doing anything like that, yet. But hopefully within our lifetimes...