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Everyone is racist

PoeJoe
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7/17/2010 3:41:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If this thread is inspired by me, let me assure you that I am not homophobic. I mean, I'm certainly not consciously homophobic. But if I am subconsciously homophobic (as I think you are implying most people are), there's really nothing I can do about that.

But I'm really thinking hard now, and I don't think I make associations between homosexuals and certain stereotypes.

Anyway, your thread reminded me of this song. I think you'll like it. I mean, you people love musical theater, right?

the above post is ironical, it really is
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/17/2010 3:46:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 3:41:39 PM, PoeJoe wrote:


If this thread is inspired by me, let me assure you that I am not homophobic. I mean, I'm certainly not consciously homophobic. But if I am subconsciously homophobic (as I think you are implying most people are), there's really nothing I can do about that.

But I'm really thinking hard now, and I don't think I make associations between homosexuals and certain stereotypes.

Anyway, your thread reminded me of this song. I think you'll like it. I mean, you people love musical theater, right?

the above post is ironical, it really is

Me thinks thou dost protest too much. Also, i don't think you need the "al" with ironic.
PoeJoe
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7/17/2010 3:53:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 3:46:27 PM, innomen wrote:
Also, i don't think you need the "al" with ironic.

Holden, of The Catcher in the Rye.

He struggled with his sexuality... not in sexual identity but in an existential way. >_>
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PoeJoe
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7/17/2010 3:54:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 3:53:15 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 7/17/2010 3:46:27 PM, innomen wrote:
Also, i don't think you need the "al" with ironic.

Holden, of The Catcher in the Rye.

He struggled with his sexuality... not in sexual identity but in an existential way. >_>

To be clear, Holden used the word "ironical" a lot, he really did.

So, it's a sort of meta-irony.
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belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/17/2010 3:55:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
<3 alan alda!

really though, "unconscious prejudice" doesn't amount to racism. not even close. racism involves the further step of consciously acting on those prejudices, or at least giving them credence. unless you think "you" are actually essentially your subconscious, which is kind of sad. the subconscious holds all kind of absurdities. thats why we have reason to sort them out best we can.

i do agree that its good to be aware of that stuff though, because it makes it easier to counter the actions we might take under the influence of the subconscious that we really wouldn't want to take if we were fully aware of our thought processes. plus the more people challenge the idea consciously the less it will be present in the wider culture and be absorbed by people's subconscious. as they enter it.

but hey if you want to think of yourself as a racist for absorbing the ideas present in the prevailing culture then go for it. enjoy your guilt!
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Danielle
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7/17/2010 3:58:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 3:54:29 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
To be clear, Holden used the word "ironical" a lot, he really did.

lol
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/17/2010 4:07:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 3:55:27 PM, belle wrote:
<3 alan alda!

really though, "unconscious prejudice" doesn't amount to racism. not even close. racism involves the further step of consciously acting on those prejudices, or at least giving them credence. unless you think "you" are actually essentially your subconscious, which is kind of sad. the subconscious holds all kind of absurdities. thats why we have reason to sort them out best we can.

i do agree that its good to be aware of that stuff though, because it makes it easier to counter the actions we might take under the influence of the subconscious that we really wouldn't want to take if we were fully aware of our thought processes. plus the more people challenge the idea consciously the less it will be present in the wider culture and be absorbed by people's subconscious. as they enter it.

but hey if you want to think of yourself as a racist for absorbing the ideas present in the prevailing culture then go for it. enjoy your guilt!

I don't think we "are"our subconscious, but are influenced by it. I also think that i the process of "sorting it out" we consciously act on those prejudices. That's why we have the president we do. I have guilt, but not along those lines.
nonentity
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7/17/2010 6:38:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I stopped the video in the middle just to comment -- I once posted a link to the Harvard Implicit Association Test for Nags to see if he was racist. He didn't do it but I already knew the answer lol At least, I'm pretty sure it was Nags...
nonentity
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7/17/2010 6:45:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 3:55:27 PM, belle wrote:
<3 alan alda!

really though, "unconscious prejudice" doesn't amount to racism.

Yes it does. Have you seen the movie Crash?

There was a study done with police officers who did another version of implicit association, where they were made to give split second decisions on whether to shoot or not. Black and white men were either armed or unarmed. Police officers took longer to discern that a white man was armed and shoot, and shot more black men who were unarmed in error.
innomen
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7/18/2010 3:19:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 6:45:36 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 7/17/2010 3:55:27 PM, belle wrote:
<3 alan alda!

really though, "unconscious prejudice" doesn't amount to racism.


Yes it does. Have you seen the movie Crash?

There was a study done with police officers who did another version of implicit association, where they were made to give split second decisions on whether to shoot or not. Black and white men were either armed or unarmed. Police officers took longer to discern that a white man was armed and shoot, and shot more black men who were unarmed in error.

Yes, pretty much illustrates my point.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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7/20/2010 7:07:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 3:55:27 PM, belle wrote:
really though, "unconscious prejudice" doesn't amount to racism. not even close. racism involves the further step of consciously acting on those prejudices, or at least giving them credence.

i do agree that its good to be aware of that stuff though, because it makes it easier to counter the actions we might take under the influence of the subconscious that we really wouldn't want to take if we were fully aware of our thought processes. plus the more people challenge the idea consciously the less it will be present in the wider culture and be absorbed by people's subconscious. as they enter it.

This.

There's a massive difference between picking up on the racial bias in society and expressing it on an unconscious level (prejudice) and rationalising and consciously believing that one or more ethnic groups are genetically superior to others (racism).

I think even the most fervent anti-racist is likely to hold some involuntary racial prejudice, like how the ardent "feminist" guy on the vid, still held a slight tendency to equate men with career and women with family.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/20/2010 7:26:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 3:21:34 PM, innomen wrote:


I saw this a while ago and it stuck in my head. It confirms what i have always thought.:

I disagree. What it really is, is that the PC police have made it so that noticing things about various races is tantamount to racism. I think that's absurd.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
nonentity
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7/20/2010 11:32:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/20/2010 7:26:49 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 7/17/2010 3:21:34 PM, innomen wrote:


I saw this a while ago and it stuck in my head. It confirms what i have always thought.:

I disagree. What it really is, is that the PC police have made it so that noticing things about various races is tantamount to racism. I think that's absurd.

What do you mean? The categorical words are, for example, "pleasant" and "bad" and, individually, have nothing to do with race.

The tests make sense.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/20/2010 11:59:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 6:45:36 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
There was a study done with police officers who did another version of implicit association, where they were made to give split second decisions on whether to shoot or not. Black and white men were either armed or unarmed. Police officers took longer to discern that a white man was armed and shoot, and shot more black men who were unarmed in error.

still not racism. i never said unconscious prejudice NEVER has effects on real life behavior. people will absorb their surrounding culture subconsciously whether they agree with it or not. and it takes work to overcome it. the brain has to do extra work to challenge something ingrained thats wrong. but it can be retrained. a racist wouldn't want to. they would just agree with the bs their subconscious was telling them.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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7/20/2010 12:41:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/20/2010 7:26:49 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

What it really is, is that the PC police have made it so that noticing things about various races is tantamount to racism. I think that's absurd.

Wow, did you watch the vid properly?

The "racism" test focused on identifying a mental link between African Americans and negative qualities or concepts and between European Americans and positive qualities or concepts.

You are saying this is stuff people notice as a reflection of fact?

A consciously rationalised belief that white people are morally superior to black people would indeed be racism.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/21/2010 7:42:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Wow, did you watch the vid properly?:

Yes, but aren't conflating the pretense of the video versus the declaration that everyone is inherently racist?

A consciously rationalised belief that white people are morally superior to black people would indeed be racism.:

I don't disagree with that a bit, but really the whole term "racism" is thrown around a bit loosely now or days. The net result is that everyone is therefore racist, which I disagree with completely.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
innomen
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7/21/2010 2:53:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/21/2010 7:42:56 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Wow, did you watch the vid properly?:

Yes, but aren't conflating the pretense of the video versus the declaration that everyone is inherently racist?

A consciously rationalised belief that white people are morally superior to black people would indeed be racism.:

I don't disagree with that a bit, but really the whole term "racism" is thrown around a bit loosely now or days. The net result is that everyone is therefore racist, which I disagree with completely.

I have to tell you that i was really surprised to see the level of racism that goes on in cultures that are of color. I spent some time in Central America, and they are terribly racist, the darker you are the worse you are, and the more indigenous looking you are the less desirable you are. Watch some Spanish TV and see how many people look like they have some semblance of the indigenous people of any Central or South American country - none. Actually, there are lots that look very European. In Africa, they aren't all that different. The very black are below the less black in Nigeria. Japan is downright xenophobic and have great racism within their culture. The list goes on and on.

It is true that not everyone acts on it directly and consciously hate people based on race, but race is a contributing factor in an impression of a person.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/21/2010 3:48:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have to tell you that i was really surprised to see the level of racism that goes on in cultures that are of color. I spent some time in Central America, and they are terribly racist, the darker you are the worse you are, and the more indigenous looking you are the less desirable you are. Watch some Spanish TV and see how many people look like they have some semblance of the indigenous people of any Central or South American country - none. Actually, there are lots that look very European. In Africa, they aren't all that different. The very black are below the less black in Nigeria. Japan is downright xenophobic and have great racism within their culture. The list goes on and on.:

Well, that's not racism, it's just that the darker your skin is, the worse of a person you are. ;)

Are you attracted to men outside of your race? I am... Well, not the men part, but women outside of my race, yes.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
popculturepooka
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7/21/2010 4:12:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/21/2010 3:48:58 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

Are you attracted to men outside of your race? I am... Well, not the men part, but women outside of my race, yes.

It actually surprises me nowadays when people say that they aren't. Then again, I grew up in super multi-cultural/ethinic community in California...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
belle
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7/21/2010 6:30:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/21/2010 4:12:29 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/21/2010 3:48:58 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

Are you attracted to men outside of your race? I am... Well, not the men part, but women outside of my race, yes.

It actually surprises me nowadays when people say that they aren't. Then again, I grew up in super multi-cultural/ethinic community in California...

i know a guy from the midwest who thought there was something scandalous about interracial relationships. and he was in one. very o.O. soooo glad i live here and not in the boonies.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ragnar_Rahl
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7/21/2010 6:43:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/21/2010 6:30:19 PM, belle wrote:
At 7/21/2010 4:12:29 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/21/2010 3:48:58 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

Are you attracted to men outside of your race? I am... Well, not the men part, but women outside of my race, yes.

It actually surprises me nowadays when people say that they aren't. Then again, I grew up in super multi-cultural/ethinic community in California...

i know a guy from the midwest who thought there was something scandalous about interracial relationships. and he was in one. very o.O.

So he wants to manufacture a little forbidden fruit for himself, what's the big deal?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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7/21/2010 8:48:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/21/2010 2:53:12 PM, innomen wrote:
At 7/21/2010 7:42:56 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Wow, did you watch the vid properly?:

Yes, but aren't conflating the pretense of the video versus the declaration that everyone is inherently racist?

A consciously rationalised belief that white people are morally superior to black people would indeed be racism.:

I don't disagree with that a bit, but really the whole term "racism" is thrown around a bit loosely now or days. The net result is that everyone is therefore racist, which I disagree with completely.

I have to tell you that i was really surprised to see the level of racism that goes on in cultures that are of color. I spent some time in Central America, and they are terribly racist, the darker you are the worse you are, and the more indigenous looking you are the less desirable you are. Watch some Spanish TV and see how many people look like they have some semblance of the indigenous people of any Central or South American country - none. Actually, there are lots that look very European. In Africa, they aren't all that different. The very black are below the less black in Nigeria. Japan is downright xenophobic and have great racism within their culture. The list goes on and on.

It is true that not everyone acts on it directly and consciously hate people based on race, but race is a contributing factor in an impression of a person.

Indians are terrible with that. They really prize fair skin. Black people are, like, a complete NO for their daughters lol they don't mind if their daughters marry a white guy but if he's black she's disowned kind of thing. (Of course, feel free to disagree with me...)