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Racism, Ferguson, DOJ, Protest, and the Cure?

Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/13/2015 9:21:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, how do we stop the cycle of hate?

The police force is racist. The DOJ documented this.
Officer Wilson was not racially motivated, since no charges were brought by the DOJ.
The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association.
The protesters violence reinforces the racist attitudes of the police, which results in documented racism, which results in resentment of the citizenry, and the cycle continues, constantly fueling itself.

Related:
The police force is racist.
Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them.
Assuming Wilson's account is the truth, you have people lying to excuse Brown's behavior.
Brown may have acted this way because of his racist attitudes due to the racist attitudes of the police (i.e. perpetual victims will always believe they are perpetually victimized, even when they are not)

So, how does this cycle stop?
The citizens of Ferguson aren't going to forgive the current police force, and police ought not ignore statistics (e.g. blacks are nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime) when dealing with the public, especially if the resentment of said police is demonstrably public knowledge.
Would a whole new police force be advised?
Would it matter?
Would it make the victims of old trust again?
Could the new police ignore the public's public attitudes?

What can end this cycle, not just in Ferguson, but everywhere?
People constantly told they are victims will have the outlook they are victims, which is unhealthy, generally (I hope) untrue, and ripe for abuse and unnecessary strife.
My work here is, finally, done.
Fly
Posts: 2,049
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3/13/2015 1:17:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree with your description of the vicious cycle that is in effect. No one seems to know for sure how to stop it. I have seen suggestions ranging from a reevaluation of our criminal justice system to disbanding the Ferguson police and starting anew. I even read an op-ed saying that the DOJ suggestion of more "community policing" lacks empirical evidence of its effectiveness. Then that same piece refers the reader to a report that is on the right track, in the writer's opinion, and that report also suggests more community policing.

I need to come up with a subject for a speech that requires research, and I have thought that this subject could be the one. Then again, it might be biting off WAY more than I can chew in a 7 minute presentation...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Df0512
Posts: 966
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3/13/2015 1:33:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 9:21:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, how do we stop the cycle of hate?

The police force is racist. The DOJ documented this.
Officer Wilson was not racially motivated, since no charges were brought by the DOJ.
The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association.
The protesters violence reinforces the racist attitudes of the police, which results in documented racism, which results in resentment of the citizenry, and the cycle continues, constantly fueling itself.

Related:
The police force is racist.
Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them.
Assuming Wilson's account is the truth, you have people lying to excuse Brown's behavior.
Brown may have acted this way because of his racist attitudes due to the racist attitudes of the police (i.e. perpetual victims will always believe they are perpetually victimized, even when they are not)

So, how does this cycle stop?
The citizens of Ferguson aren't going to forgive the current police force, and police ought not ignore statistics (e.g. blacks are nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime) when dealing with the public, especially if the resentment of said police is demonstrably public knowledge.
Would a whole new police force be advised?
Would it matter?
Would it make the victims of old trust again?
Could the new police ignore the public's public attitudes?

What can end this cycle, not just in Ferguson, but everywhere?
People constantly told they are victims will have the outlook they are victims, which is unhealthy, generally (I hope) untrue, and ripe for abuse and unnecessary strife.

"The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association."

Wow man. Call them violent, misguided, wrong, you can even call some of them bad people. But to call all the protesters racist. One thing I noticed about you Kaos is that you refuse to call a spade a spade. Sure Ferguson PD is racist but blacks(weird way of describing black people) are still nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime. Which is completely unrelated. It's like you don't want to hold the FPD completely accountable for their our racism. Some how black people or protestors are to blame, if even a little.

"Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them." Compete generalization. I absolutely trust police and hold no contempt. And I am not alone. Please trust me.

You want to talk about where the cycle stops? Here we have a police department who has been proven racist and you are asking where the cycle stops. The answer should be obvious. There is one and only one issue here, racism. Everything we deal with is a result of that. And if you don't believe that, there you have an example of the cycle continuing. I know it's easier to believe that black people are just more violent and not as smart and don't want to be accountable for what we do.

Lets talk about where the cycle started and if it is still going what does that say about racism in America. Are you expecting black people to stop the cycle? This started long before any of us where even born. I see black people in America like we are running a race and we just have quite finished. Everyone thought we did. But we never finished. The majority of black people know this, and a lot of white people don't. So when does the cycle end? When racism ends.
jimtimmy4
Posts: 321
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3/13/2015 3:59:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 1:33:44 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 3/13/2015 9:21:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, how do we stop the cycle of hate?

The police force is racist. The DOJ documented this.
Officer Wilson was not racially motivated, since no charges were brought by the DOJ.
The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association.
The protesters violence reinforces the racist attitudes of the police, which results in documented racism, which results in resentment of the citizenry, and the cycle continues, constantly fueling itself.

Related:
The police force is racist.
Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them.
Assuming Wilson's account is the truth, you have people lying to excuse Brown's behavior.
Brown may have acted this way because of his racist attitudes due to the racist attitudes of the police (i.e. perpetual victims will always believe they are perpetually victimized, even when they are not)

So, how does this cycle stop?
The citizens of Ferguson aren't going to forgive the current police force, and police ought not ignore statistics (e.g. blacks are nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime) when dealing with the public, especially if the resentment of said police is demonstrably public knowledge.
Would a whole new police force be advised?
Would it matter?
Would it make the victims of old trust again?
Could the new police ignore the public's public attitudes?

What can end this cycle, not just in Ferguson, but everywhere?
People constantly told they are victims will have the outlook they are victims, which is unhealthy, generally (I hope) untrue, and ripe for abuse and unnecessary strife.

"The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association."

Wow man. Call them violent, misguided, wrong, you can even call some of them bad people. But to call all the protesters racist. One thing I noticed about you Kaos is that you refuse to call a spade a spade. Sure Ferguson PD is racist but blacks(weird way of describing black people) are still nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime. Which is completely unrelated. It's like you don't want to hold the FPD completely accountable for their our racism. Some how black people or protestors are to blame, if even a little.

"Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them." Compete generalization. I absolutely trust police and hold no contempt. And I am not alone. Please trust me.

You want to talk about where the cycle stops? Here we have a police department who has been proven racist and you are asking where the cycle stops. The answer should be obvious. There is one and only one issue here, racism. Everything we deal with is a result of that. And if you don't believe that, there you have an example of the cycle continuing. I know it's easier to believe that black people are just more violent and not as smart and don't want to be accountable for what we do.

Lets talk about where the cycle started and if it is still going what does that say about racism in America. Are you expecting black people to stop the cycle? This started long before any of us where even born. I see black people in America like we are running a race and we just have quite finished. Everyone thought we did. But we never finished. The majority of black people know this, and a lot of white people don't. So when does the cycle end? When racism ends.

Interesting how you bring up the obvious fact: black people are way more likely to commit violent crime. And then turn around and blame the FPD.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/13/2015 4:47:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ferguson is a symptom of a more systematic issue.

If you want to treat the symptom, changes in the police department are a start. The chief's resignation was a must. Increase transparency. Multiculturalism training. A more ethnic/racially representative department. Community engagement and aid programs. Reduced profiling.

If you want to attack the disease, the key is education. Limiting the ethnic/racial education gap is critical in reducing stereotyping and prejudice, increasing employment opportunities, reducing the SES gap, and empowering communities. So long as an education gap exists, there will always be another Ferguson.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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3/13/2015 5:02:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 3:59:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/13/2015 1:33:44 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 3/13/2015 9:21:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, how do we stop the cycle of hate?

The police force is racist. The DOJ documented this.
Officer Wilson was not racially motivated, since no charges were brought by the DOJ.
The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association.
The protesters violence reinforces the racist attitudes of the police, which results in documented racism, which results in resentment of the citizenry, and the cycle continues, constantly fueling itself.

Related:
The police force is racist.
Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them.
Assuming Wilson's account is the truth, you have people lying to excuse Brown's behavior.
Brown may have acted this way because of his racist attitudes due to the racist attitudes of the police (i.e. perpetual victims will always believe they are perpetually victimized, even when they are not)

So, how does this cycle stop?
The citizens of Ferguson aren't going to forgive the current police force, and police ought not ignore statistics (e.g. blacks are nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime) when dealing with the public, especially if the resentment of said police is demonstrably public knowledge.
Would a whole new police force be advised?
Would it matter?
Would it make the victims of old trust again?
Could the new police ignore the public's public attitudes?

What can end this cycle, not just in Ferguson, but everywhere?
People constantly told they are victims will have the outlook they are victims, which is unhealthy, generally (I hope) untrue, and ripe for abuse and unnecessary strife.

"The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association."

Wow man. Call them violent, misguided, wrong, you can even call some of them bad people. But to call all the protesters racist. One thing I noticed about you Kaos is that you refuse to call a spade a spade. Sure Ferguson PD is racist but blacks(weird way of describing black people) are still nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime. Which is completely unrelated. It's like you don't want to hold the FPD completely accountable for their our racism. Some how black people or protestors are to blame, if even a little.

"Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them." Compete generalization. I absolutely trust police and hold no contempt. And I am not alone. Please trust me.

You want to talk about where the cycle stops? Here we have a police department who has been proven racist and you are asking where the cycle stops. The answer should be obvious. There is one and only one issue here, racism. Everything we deal with is a result of that. And if you don't believe that, there you have an example of the cycle continuing. I know it's easier to believe that black people are just more violent and not as smart and don't want to be accountable for what we do.

Lets talk about where the cycle started and if it is still going what does that say about racism in America. Are you expecting black people to stop the cycle? This started long before any of us where even born. I see black people in America like we are running a race and we just have quite finished. Everyone thought we did. But we never finished. The majority of black people know this, and a lot of white people don't. So when does the cycle end? When racism ends.

Interesting how you bring up the obvious fact: black people are way more likely to commit violent crime. And then turn around and blame the FPD.

Interesting how that's the only thing you got from his post.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Df0512
Posts: 966
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3/13/2015 7:20:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 3:59:27 PM, jimtimmy4 wrote:
At 3/13/2015 1:33:44 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 3/13/2015 9:21:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, how do we stop the cycle of hate?

The police force is racist. The DOJ documented this.
Officer Wilson was not racially motivated, since no charges were brought by the DOJ.
The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association.
The protesters violence reinforces the racist attitudes of the police, which results in documented racism, which results in resentment of the citizenry, and the cycle continues, constantly fueling itself.

Related:
The police force is racist.
Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them.
Assuming Wilson's account is the truth, you have people lying to excuse Brown's behavior.
Brown may have acted this way because of his racist attitudes due to the racist attitudes of the police (i.e. perpetual victims will always believe they are perpetually victimized, even when they are not)

So, how does this cycle stop?
The citizens of Ferguson aren't going to forgive the current police force, and police ought not ignore statistics (e.g. blacks are nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime) when dealing with the public, especially if the resentment of said police is demonstrably public knowledge.
Would a whole new police force be advised?
Would it matter?
Would it make the victims of old trust again?
Could the new police ignore the public's public attitudes?

What can end this cycle, not just in Ferguson, but everywhere?
People constantly told they are victims will have the outlook they are victims, which is unhealthy, generally (I hope) untrue, and ripe for abuse and unnecessary strife.

"The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association."

Wow man. Call them violent, misguided, wrong, you can even call some of them bad people. But to call all the protesters racist. One thing I noticed about you Kaos is that you refuse to call a spade a spade. Sure Ferguson PD is racist but blacks(weird way of describing black people) are still nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime. Which is completely unrelated. It's like you don't want to hold the FPD completely accountable for their our racism. Some how black people or protestors are to blame, if even a little.

"Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them." Compete generalization. I absolutely trust police and hold no contempt. And I am not alone. Please trust me.

You want to talk about where the cycle stops? Here we have a police department who has been proven racist and you are asking where the cycle stops. The answer should be obvious. There is one and only one issue here, racism. Everything we deal with is a result of that. And if you don't believe that, there you have an example of the cycle continuing. I know it's easier to believe that black people are just more violent and not as smart and don't want to be accountable for what we do.

Lets talk about where the cycle started and if it is still going what does that say about racism in America. Are you expecting black people to stop the cycle? This started long before any of us where even born. I see black people in America like we are running a race and we just have quite finished. Everyone thought we did. But we never finished. The majority of black people know this, and a lot of white people don't. So when does the cycle end? When racism ends.

Interesting how you bring up the obvious fact: black people are way more likely to commit violent crime. And then turn around and blame the FPD.

I was actually quoting Kaos. And I was being sarcastic. I was commenting on Kaos doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. I don't actually believe that statistic but as I said it is unrelated. Cops are supposed to be above that.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/15/2015 12:24:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 1:33:44 PM, Df0512 wrote:
I'm sorry, I didn't see this.

"The protesters are racist, for generalizing the Wilson/Brown account as another act of racism, due to little more than guilt by association."

Wow man. Call them violent, misguided, wrong, you can even call some of them bad people. But to call all the protesters racist.
I'm sorry, that is a phrase I use for a different argument for shock value, but you are not likely to know that.
What I mean is they are generalizing, and vilifying Wilson based on his guilt by association.
One thing I noticed about you Kaos is that you refuse to call a spade a spade.
True. It is both my greatest strength and my greatest weakness. I rarely am certain of anything when if comes to judgment and motives.
Sure Ferguson PD is racist but blacks(weird way of describing black people) are still nearly 4x more likely to commit violent crime. Which is completely unrelated. It's like you don't want to hold the FPD completely accountable for their our racism. Some how black people or protestors are to blame, if even a little.
Which came first? I don't know, and at some point it does not matter.
It is not unrelated, as if black people are more likely to commit violent crime, then the officers have more reason to be jumpy, which leads to more cases of unnecessary force.
I work at a restaurant, and if a call comes from a private phone number, we are apply WAY more scrutiny on the caller. Why? Because most pranks come from blocked phone numbers. The police are doing something similar. I don't know if that is right or wrong to do so, but I'd imagine the stats are hard to ignore. (and, yes, the stats could be misleading)

"Blacks don't trust the police and/or have open contempt for them." Compete generalization. I absolutely trust police and hold no contempt. And I am not alone. Please trust me.
Generalization, yes. Obviously, I didn't mean everyone, and I was referring more to people in Ferguson, especially young black men. Young men are generally more angry, more fiesty, and more likely to cause issues, even with authorities. I doubt black men are any different, and when young black men 16-21 are 21x more likely to be shot by police, it suggests that there may be a reason for it. That reason is contempt.
Otherwise, police just like to target young black men to shoot, and are largely fair about shooting every other group. (on the whole, blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot)

You want to talk about where the cycle stops? Here we have a police department who has been proven racist and you are asking where the cycle stops. The answer should be obvious. There is one and only one issue here, racism. Everything we deal with is a result of that. And if you don't believe that, there you have an example of the cycle continuing. I know it's easier to believe that black people are just more violent and not as smart and don't want to be accountable for what we do.
False. These protests erupted because people did not want to see the truth, and they blamed the officer in question for the crimes of the police force. That is not right at all. That is the hate and the contempt I am talking about. They assumed people who were likely to lie (Brown's friend) were telling the truth, because they wanted to believe them. They wanted to believe Wilson was racist because of the actions of others. They protested/rioted without considering Wilson was being an honest cop, which, it appears he was.
So, how do you change the attitudes of these protesters, who refused to believe Wilson acted in good faith, and vilified him immediately? Let's not forget there was another cop who shot a teen near Ferguson on Christmas Eve, and people immediately got angry and started their hate.....until the survielence video was released showing the kid holding his outstretched arm perpendicular to his body. Then, the headlines went away, and nothing more was said that I saw.
This contempt and distrust will not go away overnight, and if this is still there, especially with young men, then they are likely to have the same result, and even with a new police force, there will be cries of racism.
So, yes, the attitudes of the citizens needs to change, too. But, how? Why should they trust a new chief or even a new police force?

And, no, I don't think blacks are violent or not smart as a group, and I'm not sure where you are getting that from.


Lets talk about where the cycle started and if it is still going what does that say about racism in America. Are you expecting black people to stop the cycle? This started long before any of us where even born. I see black people in America like we are running a race and we just have quite finished. Everyone thought we did. But we never finished. The majority of black people know this, and a lot of white people don't. So when does the cycle end? When racism ends.

Do you believe that if you tell a person they are a victim over and over and over again, they will believe it? Does it make it true?
I have seen people cry racism where there is none, like Officer Wilson for example, or the people who were on the fence or even defended him. This is probably the single worst thing people can do, since it distracts from actual issues, and causes distrust among outsiders.

And, no, I don't expect blacks to stop the cycle alone, since it takes both sides, and I am not even referring to ending racism in general. But, when you have police who can defend their actions by saying "look at this" (stats, figures, etc.), and then Al Sharpton can say "look at these stats" to show the police are being "racist", it is a cycle, and one side isn't going to fix the issue alone.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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3/15/2015 12:41:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 7:20:18 PM, Df0512 wrote:

I was actually quoting Kaos. And I was being sarcastic. I was commenting on Kaos doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. I don't actually believe that statistic but as I said it is unrelated. Cops are supposed to be above that.

What is he accusing you of doing?

The 3.7 x more like stat is a number I calculated by using FBI crime statistics for violent crime between whites and blacks for 2012 (I think), and using population data from 2010, to calculate the respective crime rates.
Violent crime is forcible rape, robbery, murder, and aggrevated assault, and I think this is based on arrests.

Now, these stats can be misleading (what stat isn't, amirite?), as the higher black rates could be due to framing or putting someone through the ringer for good PR. However, it is more likely due to circumstance, since blacks are more likely to be impoverished, murder (gangs) and robbery (mugging) and aggravated assault seem logical based on urban poverty issues.

Also, the data may be incomplete, but maybe not. Some data, and I am not sure if this is part of that data, is supposed to be reported (like number of cops shooting suspects), but many precincts do not report these numbers. It's one of those wonderful laws that require something, but has no method to enforce it. So, stats like blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot than whites by police, may be inaccurate due to missing data; however, I am not sure the FBI data I used for the 3.7x stat is missing data or not.
My work here is, finally, done.
Df0512
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3/15/2015 11:08:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I work at a restaurant, and if a call comes from a private phone number, we are apply WAY more scrutiny on the caller. Why? Because most pranks come from blocked phone numbers. The police are doing something similar. I don't know if that is right or wrong to do so, but I'd imagine the stats are hard to ignore. (and, yes, the stats could be misleading)

Well racism came first. And it is unrelated. Are you saying it's ok for cops to target black people because the may see them commit crimes more? Or can we agree that cops are supposed to be above those kind of prejudgments. It doesn't matter what race of people they see commit crimes more. They are expected to treat every race equally. That's why it is unrelated. I isn't an excuse or a valid reason for their behavior. Those cops are weak and shouldn't be cops. This is just you trying to make black people accountable for what cops do.

Generalization, yes. Obviously, I didn't mean everyone, and I was referring more to people in Ferguson, especially young black men. Young men are generally more angry, more fiesty, and more likely to cause issues, even with authorities. I doubt black men are any different, and when young black men 16-21 are 21x more likely to be shot by police, it suggests that there may be a reason for it. That reason is contempt.

I isn't that obvious Kaos. But yes there are black people with those feeling in Ferguson. But a lot of black people there don;t feel that way either. They just want to feel protected. Some people forget that these people have valid concerns. There's just always a few bad apples.

Otherwise, police just like to target young black men to shoot, and are largely fair about shooting every other group. (on the whole, blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot)

False. These protests erupted because people did not want to see the truth, and they blamed the officer in question for the crimes of the police force. That is not right at all. That is the hate and the contempt I am talking about. They assumed people who were likely to lie (Brown's friend) were telling the truth, because they wanted to believe them. They wanted to believe Wilson was racist because of the actions of others. They protested/rioted without considering Wilson was being an honest cop, which, it appears he was.

It seems like you are assuming this is the first time something like this has ever happened in Ferguson. Ferguson PD has been proven to be racist. At least some of the officers. You don't know how long these people have been dealing with this. Maybe they came to Michael Browns defense because they are tired of young black men being shot. Maybe Michael Brown had it coming but that doesn't mean all young black men who lost their lives to the FPD did. Do you think the people of Ferguson are going to believe the FPD. Why would they. And quite frankly you don't know if officer Darren Wilson had racist tendencies. Your taking sides just like they are. No one is ever going to know 100% of what happened. So the law took care of it and I'm satisfied.

So, how do you change the attitudes of these protesters, who refused to believe Wilson acted in good faith, and vilified him immediately? Let's not forget there was another cop who shot a teen near Ferguson on Christmas Eve, and people immediately got angry and started their hate.....until the survielence video was released showing the kid holding his outstretched arm perpendicular to his body. Then, the headlines went away, and nothing more was said that I saw.

You trying to change the mind of the protesters who just found out the police department they having been saying is racist actually is racist? Your on the wrong page my friend.

This contempt and distrust will not go away overnight, and if this is still there, especially with young men, then they are likely to have the same result, and even with a new police force, there will be cries of racism.
So, yes, the attitudes of the citizens needs to change, too. But, how? Why should they trust a new chief or even a new police force?

Sounds like you asking black people to stop a cycle of racism that has always existed.

And, no, I don't think blacks are violent or not smart as a group, and I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

I kind of think you do. I think a lot of white people feel that way about the black community. But thats my personal opinion we don't have to debate it. If you say you don't fine.

Lets talk about where the cycle started and if it is still going what does that say about racism in America. Are you expecting black people to stop the cycle? This started long before any of us where even born. I see black people in America like we are running a race and we just have quite finished. Everyone thought we did. But we never finished. The majority of black people know this, and a lot of white people don't. So when does the cycle end? When racism ends.

Do you believe that if you tell a person they are a victim over and over and over again, they will believe it? Does it make it true?

No but I dont see that heappening.

I have seen people cry racism where there is none, like Officer Wilson for example, or the people who were on the fence or even defended him. This is probably the single worst thing people can do, since it distracts from actual issues, and causes distrust among outsiders.

This is my problem with you and a lot of white people in this country. You call us victims and say we are crying wolf and I can't help but think that none of you know what you are talking about. You are just ignoring the issue so you can say no it's not racism it's just you (black people). It's all about personal accountability. Black people are saying racism is the problem and white people are saying no it's just you. And I agree, to a certain point. But Kaos they have been PROVEN racist. Why the hell isn't that the bigger issue. How can we talk about personal accountability, stats , facts, actual issues, distrust, when the people protecting everyone is racist. You don't know o\if Daren Wilson was racist. The FPD are racist you don't know what they are capable of. The foundation is corrupt. I mean listen to yourself;

This is probably the single worst thing people can do, since it distracts from actual issues, and causes distrust among outsiders.

What are you talking about!!!! How about racist being the single worse thing people can do. The real issue? Wouldn't that be racism. It's like you are still trying to prove they aren't racists. What could possibly cause more distrust them racism. Notice how I keep saying the word. Do you not believe it is as big a deal as we say it is. There is no truth or peace in racism. There is no other issue to be distracted from. it is the core issue. it is THE issue.

And, no, I don't expect blacks to stop the cycle alone, since it takes both sides, and I am not even referring to ending racism in general. But, when you have police who can defend their actions by saying "look at this" (stats, figures, etc.), and then Al Sharpton can say "look at these stats" to show the police are being "racist", it is a cycle, and one side isn't going to fix the issue alone.

They would have to defend there actions if they weren't racist. Period. It isn't because the facts. It's because they are racist and black people know it. We know racism. Let me again remind you of a few bad apples. But that doesn't mean every case is the same. There are black people, like myself, who understand personal accountability. Like with Michael Brown. But the FPD is racist. We can talk about our personal accountability when we get the same treatment fairly. Otherwise they'd be adapting to a racist environment. So yes, one side can fix this issue.
Df0512
Posts: 966
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3/15/2015 11:16:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 12:41:55 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/13/2015 7:20:18 PM, Df0512 wrote:

I was actually quoting Kaos. And I was being sarcastic. I was commenting on Kaos doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. I don't actually believe that statistic but as I said it is unrelated. Cops are supposed to be above that.

What is he accusing you of doing?

The 3.7 x more like stat is a number I calculated by using FBI crime statistics for violent crime between whites and blacks for 2012 (I think), and using population data from 2010, to calculate the respective crime rates.
Violent crime is forcible rape, robbery, murder, and aggrevated assault, and I think this is based on arrests.

Now, these stats can be misleading (what stat isn't, amirite?), as the higher black rates could be due to framing or putting someone through the ringer for good PR. However, it is more likely due to circumstance, since blacks are more likely to be impoverished, murder (gangs) and robbery (mugging) and aggravated assault seem logical based on urban poverty issues.

Also, the data may be incomplete, but maybe not. Some data, and I am not sure if this is part of that data, is supposed to be reported (like number of cops shooting suspects), but many precincts do not report these numbers. It's one of those wonderful laws that require something, but has no method to enforce it. So, stats like blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot than whites by police, may be inaccurate due to missing data; however, I am not sure the FBI data I used for the 3.7x stat is missing data or not.

SO why are we talking about data if its so incomplete. You need to make a side man. I don't even know what to make of this.

However, it is more likely due to circumstance, since blacks are more likely to be impoverished, murder (gangs) and robbery (mugging) and aggravated assault seem logical based on urban poverty issues

This is because of racism. This has been the case sense black people attained freedom. This country literally built most of these communities for us and abandoned them leaving them under funded and under developed. Black people in this country are born with one strike against them because of this. This county wasn't built to support black people or any other race for that matter. White people can;t relate to this so they look down on black people and pretend racism doesn't and everything is fair. There is a huge disconnect between black view and white views in this country.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/15/2015 1:25:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
first, the cycle cannot be instantly fixed. There are people that will hold racist and bigoted views until the day they die (and I include people that are bigoted against police, the "all police are racist thugs" is the definition of bigotry). However, these people cannot just be executed or expelled from the country or purged in any other way. Sadly, people have a right to be racist and shout and yell at whatever they want. So it to fix it, it must be known going in that a "fix" will take an entire generation or two to come to fruition.

The first thing is to fix the accountability of police. The top end of the structure needs to make sure that its number one goal is justice and truth, not protecting their own. One of the key components to this is video evidence of everything. Cameras, cameras, cameras. When there is no recording, things quickly turn into a "he said, she said," which has to default to "innocent until proven guilty," which of course is innocent with no evidence. That will only increase the divide between police and the people.

The second thing is to have community outreach to the police. The police/citizen relationship is a two way street. Both have to be willing to try and fix it, just like any relationship.

Third is to make sure police do not fall into the statistical trap by rotating them through "problem areas." If you work in an area where 5 out of every 6 murders is committed by a black person, the statistics will start to leave an impression upon you. The human brain is designed to recognize patterns and identify short cuts (like how we identify poisoned animals by their coloring, rather than waiting to actually getting bit). These "short cuts" can cut right into the land of racism, even though statistically accurate, they cause the individual police officers to see "black people" as one group and not a collection of individuals. By making sure that no officer stays in a problem area for too long, you help to make sure that they do not succumb to racism.

Forth is to grow the community with a focus on education and economy. These are two of the key factors that help keep people out of crime. When the economy begins to flourish, it opens up resources for more community events (like wednesday movies in the park, community softball leagues, community plays, etc) that help to strengthen the community bond and increases peoples desire to be part of the community, rather than against it (through acts of violence).
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