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Love and Sex

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/18/2010 9:34:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Here's something I was just pondering (420) ...

A straight (hypermasculine, actually) friend of Vi's once told me in confidence that he has let a gay guy go down on him before (his best friend). The thing is, I genuinely believe that he is straight and simply let his best friend go down on him (a) because he was horny enough to do so and (b) he just wanted to try it and see if guys are better, just as girls are known to be better at going down on girls. He figured his best friend would never tell so there'd be no social consequences ya know? I can dig it.

So, I basically consider him STRAIGHT but open-minded. I also think that even if he's okay with guys sexually, it could be JUST a sexual thing (like a straight woman being okay with having another female in a threesome) but overall he'd still be straight, because he could not love or be with a man. Vi says that this guy is automatically bisexual because he was willing (and enjoyed) getting off with a man.

I guess my reasoning is that I know plenty of girls who would be okay with kissing girls or even fooling around with girls, but deep down they strongly prefer and only would ever really be romantically involved with men. It's hard for me to consider these girls bisexual (and that's why there is the false stereotype that bisexuality doesn't exist -- because these girls just seem skanky).

In the end, Vi is 100% right. In SEXuality, sex has to be the determinant factor. If one can enjoy sexual activities with both guys and girls (regardless of any emotional or mental attachments) then I s'pose they're bisexual. So, if it's sex and not emotional feelings that determine sexuality, then isn't it possible for a straight man to be in love with another man and still be straight?

If not, you're basically saying that the willingness to have sex with someone is what makes you "in" love with them as opposed to just loving them. So, you're bascally saying that sex is a necessary factor (consideration) in order to qualify as being "in love." But in the complicated world of sexuality, we know that's not true. For instance, there are some genuinely asexual people who never want to have sex or feel sexual... aren't they capable of strong, emotional attachment pair bonding (being in love) with other people?

Can't they have the same emotional and physical (biochemical) reactions as sexual people do when they're in love? Or, are our mind and bodies hardwired to always want to have sex with the person we're in love with? In other words, can can asexual person never really experience being "in" love the way sexual people do? Haha love and sexuality... or either of those things alone... is mind-boggling when you're high. Or even sober.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/18/2010 9:41:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Another thing: Recently a straight friend of ours was telling us about her boyfriend and his best friend. Apparently, they're really close and they treat each other not how typical guys treat each other but how people in a relationship do. She once accused her bf of having a crush on his best friend and he flipped out (lol I would too) as he and his best friend are definitely both straight (sexually). However, on the surface their relationship definitely seems, hmm, close? Again if people can be in love without sex (i.e. a married couple who's maybe going through a stressful time) then is it possible for 2 straight people to be in love? Or is sex necessary for qualifying as IN love (which seems faulty)?
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studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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7/18/2010 9:46:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Sex is not required for someone to be "in love." I don't plan on having sex any time soon, but there's obviously a possibility of falling in love with someone.

When it comes down to it, love is an emotion. Sex is an action that some people feel may be an action that results from an emotion. However, the latter emotion may not be out of love - it could be out of lust, peer pressure, or even for the sake of doing something.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/18/2010 9:50:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 9:34:48 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Here's something I was just pondering (420) ...

A straight (hypermasculine, actually) friend of Vi's once told me in confidence that he has let a gay guy go down on him before (his best friend). The thing is, I genuinely believe that he is straight and simply let his best friend go down on him (a) because he was horny enough to do so and (b) he just wanted to try it and see if guys are better, just as girls are known to be better at going down on girls. He figured his best friend would never tell so there'd be no social consequences ya know? I can dig it.

So, I basically consider him STRAIGHT but open-minded. I also think that even if he's okay with guys sexually, it could be JUST a sexual thing (like a straight woman being okay with having another female in a threesome) but overall he'd still be straight, because he could not love or be with a man. Vi says that this guy is automatically bisexual because he was willing (and enjoyed) getting off with a man.

I guess my reasoning is that I know plenty of girls who would be okay with kissing girls or even fooling around with girls, but deep down they strongly prefer and only would ever really be romantically involved with men. It's hard for me to consider these girls bisexual (and that's why there is the false stereotype that bisexuality doesn't exist -- because these girls just seem skanky).

In the end, Vi is 100% right. In SEXuality, sex has to be the determinant factor. If one can enjoy sexual activities with both guys and girls (regardless of any emotional or mental attachments) then I s'pose they're bisexual. So, if it's sex and not emotional feelings that determine sexuality, then isn't it possible for a straight man to be in love with another man and still be straight?

If not, you're basically saying that the willingness to have sex with someone is what makes you "in" love with them as opposed to just loving them. So, you're bascally saying that sex is a necessary factor (consideration) in order to qualify as being "in love." But in the complicated world of sexuality, we know that's not true. For instance, there are some genuinely asexual people who never want to have sex or feel sexual... aren't they capable of strong, emotional attachment pair bonding (being in love) with other people?

Can't they have the same emotional and physical (biochemical) reactions as sexual people do when they're in love? Or, are our mind and bodies hardwired to always want to have sex with the person we're in love with? In other words, can can asexual person never really experience being "in" love the way sexual people do? Haha love and sexuality... or either of those things alone... is mind-boggling when you're high. Or even sober.

I can't speak for girls, especially lesbians, but for guys i can. First, if your friend was going down on his gay friend, that would be a different story, and your assumptions of him being straight would be wrong. For a guy, an orgasm is an orgasm, and how you get it is just in the details sometimes.

Now, there is a lot of taboo concerning this whole thing sex. Lots and lots of it. I will tell you that stimulation to certain parts of the body will be universal to varying degrees among each sex according to their respective anatomy. Taboo will interfere with that pleasure, but the body will still react to what it will react to, regardless of the source of stimulation - but again taboo has some power in this process. Remove the taboo and essentially we all can do the same sorts of things to achieve an orgasm regardless of sexual orientation.

Then there's love. Sex with love can be monumentally different and better than sex alone. Exploring a sex life with someone you love and trust is... well... If you have been there you know, and if you haven't you'll like it a lot.

For a guy they can be completely separate or together. However, for me love is what completes the individual.
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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7/18/2010 10:38:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't think that makes him bisexual. In my opinion, it's emotion that decides someone's sexuality.

As for the second post you'd have to distinguish between like, a normal love and a platonic love or something. I'm not homosexual and neither is a good guy friend of mine, and while maybe we don't act as much like we're in a relationship as in your example, but we're pretty close. I dunno.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/18/2010 11:14:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I really don't think it means anything about his sexuality. I also know you can be great close friends with someone without anything sexual with it, opposite or same gender regaurdless of orientation. My best friend and I have often been accused of being lesbian lovers since 2nd grade. (we now joke like we are, but we know we're just really close friends)

She is prolly more abstinent then sac8, with no religious foundation. I also have many close guy friends that I don't feel any attraction too at all. I think love comes from a close friendship with emotions attached to it, but not every close friendship leads to love.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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7/18/2010 12:25:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 10:38:14 AM, LeafRod wrote:
As for the second post you'd have to distinguish between like, a normal love and a platonic love or something. I'm not homosexual and neither is a good guy friend of mine, and while maybe we don't act as much like we're in a relationship as in your example, but we're pretty close. I dunno.

This.

Being close to your male friends doesn't make you gay... it just makes you human, being able to connect with other humans who need emotional connection just like you.
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/18/2010 12:28:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:25:06 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 7/18/2010 10:38:14 AM, LeafRod wrote:
As for the second post you'd have to distinguish between like, a normal love and a platonic love or something. I'm not homosexual and neither is a good guy friend of mine, and while maybe we don't act as much like we're in a relationship as in your example, but we're pretty close. I dunno.

This.

Being close to your male friends doesn't make you gay... it just makes you human, being able to connect with other humans who need emotional connection just like you.

hmmmmmm. Cuidado amigo.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/18/2010 12:35:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

I believe it is a term for blow job.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/18/2010 12:36:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:35:07 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

I believe it is a term for blow job.

It's gender neutral. Blowjob or cunnilingus, "go down" doesn't care.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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7/18/2010 12:39:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:35:07 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

I believe it is a term for blow job.

http://www.bu.edu...

Bisexuality exists. He was horny enough. I'll start a PM with theLwerd tommorow about our homosexuality debate.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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7/18/2010 12:40:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:38:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

You've never ever heard someone use that phrase before?

4chan, life, school, forums.

Never.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/18/2010 12:42:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:40:28 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:38:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

You've never ever heard someone use that phrase before?

4chan, life, school, forums.

Never.

dayum.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/18/2010 12:43:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:39:25 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:35:07 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

I believe it is a term for blow job.

http://www.bu.edu...

Bisexuality exists. He was horny enough. I'll start a PM with theLwerd tommorow about our homosexuality debate.

Yes, that will be interesting.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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7/18/2010 12:48:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:42:13 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:40:28 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:38:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

You've never ever heard someone use that phrase before?

4chan, life, school, forums.

Never.

dayum.

http://www.google.com...:*:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

O.o

At 7/18/2010 12:43:43 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
English is his third language.

For the last 10 years of my life, I also think in mainly in English.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/18/2010 1:04:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:36:32 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:35:07 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

I believe it is a term for blow job.

It's gender neutral. Blowjob or cunnilingus, "go down" doesn't care.

Considering I didn't actually know and was using context clues only, not that bad.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/18/2010 1:27:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 1:04:02 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:36:32 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:35:07 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/18/2010 12:33:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
What does "go down on" mean?

I believe it is a term for blow job.

It's gender neutral. Blowjob or cunnilingus, "go down" doesn't care.

Considering I didn't actually know and was using context clues only, not that bad.

It's either a slightly antiquated term, or the experience of the posters is somewhat undeveloped.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/18/2010 7:11:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Humans are messed up. Nothing is certain when it comes to the laws of attraction. Look at those people who have sex with their cars...
You can love someone and not be sexually attracted to them.
You can be sexually attracted to someone and not love them.
I personally wouldn't let a guy blow me, even if he was my best friend.
I highly doubt I'd be able to get it up.
I suppose if you can be sexually aroused by a member of the same sex, that makes you bicurious. If you are sexually attracted to a member of both sexes, that makes you bisexual.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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7/18/2010 7:25:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 7:11:21 PM, tvellalott wrote:
If you are sexually attracted to a member of both sexes, that makes you bisexual.

You mean, like, a hermaphrodite?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/18/2010 7:30:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 7:25:42 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 7/18/2010 7:11:21 PM, tvellalott wrote:
If you are sexually attracted to a member of both sexes, that makes you bisexual.

You mean, like, a hermaphrodite?

Blah

EDIT: If you are sexually attracted to members of both sexes, that makes you bisexual.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/18/2010 8:31:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 10:38:14 AM, LeafRod wrote:
I don't think that makes him bisexual. In my opinion, it's emotion that decides someone's sexuality.

how can emotion rather than sexual attraction determine someones sexuality? that doesn't even make sense. your sexuality is about who you want to have SEX with.

is the love between 2 close friends qualitatively different from the love between partners? meh. certainly an exclusive sexual relationship adds another layer of emotions, but the love itself i don't think is different.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/19/2010 12:02:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
In many of the Shakespeare plays, the male characters profess their love for each other, and it is considered to be a brotherly love (not gay), although Shakespeare himself was probably gay. We just don't use the term love anymore because homosexuality came out of the closet, if you will, within the last century, and so now there is an unwanted ambiguity.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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7/19/2010 12:06:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/19/2010 12:02:20 AM, wjmelements wrote:
In many of the Shakespeare plays, the male characters profess their love for each other, and it is considered to be a brotherly love (not gay), although Shakespeare himself was probably gay. We just don't use the term love anymore because homosexuality came out of the closet, if you will, within the last century, and so now there is an unwanted ambiguity.

Gay? Doubtful. Bisexual maybe, but not gay.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/19/2010 8:24:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
In the end, Vi is 100% right. In SEXuality, sex has to be the determinant factor. If one can enjoy sexual activities with both guys and girls (regardless of any emotional or mental attachments) then I s'pose they're bisexual. So, if it's sex and not emotional feelings that determine sexuality, then isn't it possible for a straight man to be in love with another man and still be straight?:

As depraved as Kinsey really was, he did come up with an interesting sexuality scale. Everyone is to some degree either attracted to members of the same sex or at least can understand why people are attracted to them.

I have bisexual friends and straight friends who did something gay in one instance of their lives. I don't think it makes them gay or bi, necessarily. But who knows. I don't know what it's like to be in someone else's head.

Relatively speaking, we still don't scientifically know all that much about human sexuality.

Eh... Who cares? If your straight friend likes getting dome from another dude, whatever. I don't think it necessarily makes him a bi-sexual though.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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7/19/2010 9:43:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 8:31:28 PM, belle wrote:
how can emotion rather than sexual attraction determine someones sexuality? that doesn't even make sense. your sexuality is about who you want to have SEX with.

whatever. is someone who only wants relationships with members of the same gender but has sex with members of the opposite a heterosexual, then? is there some word that is like sexuality but pertains to relationships?

i guess sexuality would be intertwined with relationships on some sort of level so that the above situation wouldn't really happen, but i suppose it's possible.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/19/2010 10:25:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/19/2010 9:43:18 AM, LeafRod wrote:
At 7/18/2010 8:31:28 PM, belle wrote:
how can emotion rather than sexual attraction determine someones sexuality? that doesn't even make sense. your sexuality is about who you want to have SEX with.

whatever. is someone who only wants relationships with members of the same gender but has sex with members of the opposite a heterosexual, then? is there some word that is like sexuality but pertains to relationships?

i guess sexuality would be intertwined with relationships on some sort of level so that the above situation wouldn't really happen, but i suppose it's possible.

when i was younger i wanted relationships with men (and the occasional woman now that i think about it) but thought i was "asexual"- aka i was super repressed hehe, but anyways the relationship component is a separate dimension, yes, since it can be considered separately. it really makes to sense to only want romantic relationships with one gender and only want sex with the other though. its rare that the two come apart at all.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...