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The Case for Porn

Blade-of-Truth
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3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

II. Using it for educational purposes

I believe another clear benefit one can gain from porn is in regards to the educational properties it has.

As creatures who learn through observation, it naturally follows that there'd be something to learn from observing porn. One thing, in particular, that can be learned from watching porn is techniques on pleasuring your partner sexually. As creatures with a herd mentality, we tend to mimic the actions and behavior of those around us. We don't do that for just anybody though, which is obvious by the fact that sometimes we observe someone doing something and think to ourselves how we'd never do such a thing. However, there are also cases where we observe someone we might hold in high regard and then act in a manner that is parallel to their own. Additionally, if we set out to learn something specifically, a rational person would seek out those who are deemed experts or professionals.

With that in mind, who are the experts at performing successful sexual techniques? Porn stars.

If we desire to educate ourselves on effective sexual techniques, it would make sense to look towards those who perform, and participate in, such things on a common basis. By watching porn, we are allowing ourselves to observe techniques that we might have never otherwise been exposed to. Furthermore, by utilizing some of the techniques we gained via observation, we might find that we have better sexual experiences ourselves.

Thus, when porn is used for educational purposes, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately allowing us to observe techniques that can lead to a better sexual experience.

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?
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Vox_Veritas
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3/23/2015 4:36:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

By this logic, drugs are good.

II. Using it for educational purposes

I believe another clear benefit one can gain from porn is in regards to the educational properties it has.

As creatures who learn through observation, it naturally follows that there'd be something to learn from observing porn. One thing, in particular, that can be learned from watching porn is techniques on pleasuring your partner sexually. As creatures with a herd mentality, we tend to mimic the actions and behavior of those around us. We don't do that for just anybody though, which is obvious by the fact that sometimes we observe someone doing something and think to ourselves how we'd never do such a thing. However, there are also cases where we observe someone we might hold in high regard and then act in a manner that is parallel to their own. Additionally, if we set out to learn something specifically, a rational person would seek out those who are deemed experts or professionals.

With that in mind, who are the experts at performing successful sexual techniques? Porn stars.

If we desire to educate ourselves on effective sexual techniques, it would make sense to look towards those who perform, and participate in, such things on a common basis. By watching porn, we are allowing ourselves to observe techniques that we might have never otherwise been exposed to. Furthermore, by utilizing some of the techniques we gained via observation, we might find that we have better sexual experiences ourselves.

Thus, when porn is used for educational purposes, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately allowing us to observe techniques that can lead to a better sexual experience.

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?

Why is this needed? There is no need for learning how to "perform" ahead of time; wouldn't the preferences of the other person be learned during the act?
In any case, most likely one'd just be provoked to sexual excitement by the porn "education".
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bsh1
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3/23/2015 4:37:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The issue with the observational learning argument is that porn teaches us to objectify others and to degrade or sexualize women (well, not in my case, but you know...)
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Khaos_Mage
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3/23/2015 4:48:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:37:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
The issue with the observational learning argument is that porn teaches us to objectify others and to degrade or sexualize women (well, not in my case, but you know...)

Isn't it fair to assume that those who watch porn the most are likely to already objectify?
Further, is it any worse if it is on video or in your head?
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Blade-of-Truth
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3/23/2015 4:56:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:36:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

By this logic, drugs are good.

The effects of drugs vary greatly, both in regards to short-term and long-term effects. I am applying this logic to orgasms specifically, and by no means think that this logic is valid if placed on something like drugs. They are two very different things when we take the potential harms into consideration.

I also think there is a fundamental difference in the pleasure one is receiving when comparing drugs to orgasms. While the pleasures of drugs can feel orgasmic, they are not orgasm-inducing in the same manner as sexual excitement.

II. Using it for educational purposes

I believe another clear benefit one can gain from porn is in regards to the educational properties it has.

As creatures who learn through observation, it naturally follows that there'd be something to learn from observing porn. One thing, in particular, that can be learned from watching porn is techniques on pleasuring your partner sexually. As creatures with a herd mentality, we tend to mimic the actions and behavior of those around us. We don't do that for just anybody though, which is obvious by the fact that sometimes we observe someone doing something and think to ourselves how we'd never do such a thing. However, there are also cases where we observe someone we might hold in high regard and then act in a manner that is parallel to their own. Additionally, if we set out to learn something specifically, a rational person would seek out those who are deemed experts or professionals.

With that in mind, who are the experts at performing successful sexual techniques? Porn stars.

If we desire to educate ourselves on effective sexual techniques, it would make sense to look towards those who perform, and participate in, such things on a common basis. By watching porn, we are allowing ourselves to observe techniques that we might have never otherwise been exposed to. Furthermore, by utilizing some of the techniques we gained via observation, we might find that we have better sexual experiences ourselves.

Thus, when porn is used for educational purposes, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately allowing us to observe techniques that can lead to a better sexual experience.

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?

Why is this needed? There is no need for learning how to "perform" ahead of time; wouldn't the preferences of the other person be learned during the act?

While there is no "need", that doesn't mean there isn't "good reason for want". I would agree that in some cases the preferences of the other person can be learned during the act, however, how often do you have a sexual partner who tells you what he or she actually prefers while in the middle of sex? Sure, sometimes it'll happen, but in my experiences it's not been very often. Furthermore, there are times when the person might not even know what their own preferences are until their partner performs a specific act on them. One instance of this can be techniques for fingering the girl in order to make her "squirt" or "gush" which is a very physical orgasm in which the girl releases fluids (not pee) while achieving orgasm.The technique involves applying pressure with one hand right below her belly button, while the other hand has a finger or two inserted and gently applying pressure upwards toward the exterior hand while massaging the central bundle of nerves that rests of the roof of the main vagina cavity. It's a guaranteed way to make her achieve this rare type of orgasm, and in most of my personal experiences the girls had no idea that it was possible, while afterwards requesting nearly every-time that it be done again.

Hence there are benefits from learning such techniques through the observations of porn even if there is no real "need" to.

In any case, most likely one'd just be provoked to sexual excitement by the porn "education".

True, but again, such a thing is beneficial as it would lead to the pleasurable experience of an orgasm.
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bsh1
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3/23/2015 5:05:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:48:49 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:37:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
The issue with the observational learning argument is that porn teaches us to objectify others and to degrade or sexualize women (well, not in my case, but you know...)

Isn't it fair to assume that those who watch porn the most are likely to already objectify?

I am not sure that's fair. I think that pretty much everyone who can does or has. Frankly, I think the impulse to watch porn is merely one of biological desire; it doesn't necessarily indicate a predisposition to objectification.

Further, is it any worse if it is on video or in your head?

I think when it's in your head--at least in my experience--it's with someone I know. That personalizes it and makes me less willing to objectify people. Also, when its in my head, I have to feel some emotional connection with the person beyond simply physical attractions, whereas I don't need to do the same when watching a video. In the video, I just need to be like, "damn...great abs...and other assets..."
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xXCryptoXx
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3/23/2015 5:10:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
That was garbage lol...

The first point had extremely flawed logic and the second point doesn't actually justify watching pornography, it just states that you can learn from it. The second point conveniently ignores that you learn more than just sex positions from porn. It also teaches watchers to objectify humans as sexual objects and creates an extremely unrealistic view of human sexuality and how humans engage and react in sexual situations. The most dangerous part about pornography isn't the consensual sex though. It is how porn desensitivizes humans sexually, which generally leads them to pursuing more perverted forms of pornography including rape porn, genital mutilations, child porn, and beastiality. This can have adverse effects on society.
Nolite Timere
Blade-of-Truth
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3/23/2015 5:12:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:37:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
The issue with the observational learning argument is that porn teaches us to objectify others and to degrade or sexualize women (well, not in my case, but you know...)

How does it teach us to objectify others? I could see it enabling the objectification of others, but not how it would teach such a thing.

I also think the degrade point is kinda shaky. If anything, viewing something as degrading is a personal feeling based on the values of the perceiver. A majority of *career* porn stars take pride in their work, and don't view it as degrading at all. So I think that the degrading aspect of it all is ultimately something that falls on the perceiver. The argument would have to be made that porn is degrading for everyone who participates in it, and I don't think there is any objective consensus that it is, due mostly to the pride that a majority of the porn actors/actresses have in their career choice. I also think intent plays a big part in all of this, but it's pretty difficult to truly pinpoint the intent of certain things like porn directors or those watching porn films.
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bsh1
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3/23/2015 5:16:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 5:12:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:37:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
The issue with the observational learning argument is that porn teaches us to objectify others and to degrade or sexualize women (well, not in my case, but you know...)

How does it teach us to objectify others? I could see it enabling the objectification of others, but not how it would teach such a thing.

Porn treats others as simply sex objects. Sure, there is some porn out there that may treat people with the kind of emotional richness common to normal relationships, but usually it is merely, "you're hot...let's have sex." That teaches objectification by inducing modeling behaviors in those who watch it.

I also think the degrade point is kinda shaky. If anything, viewing something as degrading is a personal feeling based on the values of the perceiver. A majority of *career* porn stars take pride in their work, and don't view it as degrading at all. So I think that the degrading aspect of it all is ultimately something that falls on the perceiver.

That the stars themselves don't find it degrading says nothing about whether the viewers learn to degrade others from it.

The argument would have to be made that porn is degrading for everyone who participates in it, and I don't think there is any objective consensus that it is, due mostly to the pride that a majority of the porn actors/actresses have in their career choice.

My argument is not that it degrades the stars, but that it promotes male degradation of females.
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Philocat
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3/23/2015 5:25:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

The pleasure of an orgasm is very short; a handful of seconds. From the utilitarian perspective you are coming from, this pleasure has very little magnitude on the hedonic calculus (the scale of pleasure). More pleasure can be gained from more long-lasting pleasures such as reading a good book or baking a cake.

Furthermore, there have been several studies that suggest that pornography could cause sexual and mental health problems, which will decrease one's pleasure in the future.


II. Using it for educational purposes

I believe another clear benefit one can gain from porn is in regards to the educational properties it has.

As creatures who learn through observation, it naturally follows that there'd be something to learn from observing porn. One thing, in particular, that can be learned from watching porn is techniques on pleasuring your partner sexually. As creatures with a herd mentality, we tend to mimic the actions and behavior of those around us. We don't do that for just anybody though, which is obvious by the fact that sometimes we observe someone doing something and think to ourselves how we'd never do such a thing. However, there are also cases where we observe someone we might hold in high regard and then act in a manner that is parallel to their own. Additionally, if we set out to learn something specifically, a rational person would seek out those who are deemed experts or professionals.

With that in mind, who are the experts at performing successful sexual techniques? Porn stars.

If we desire to educate ourselves on effective sexual techniques, it would make sense to look towards those who perform, and participate in, such things on a common basis. By watching porn, we are allowing ourselves to observe techniques that we might have never otherwise been exposed to. Furthermore, by utilizing some of the techniques we gained via observation, we might find that we have better sexual experiences ourselves.

Thus, when porn is used for educational purposes, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately allowing us to observe techniques that can lead to a better sexual experience.

This seems like a good argument, but you forget one thing:

Pornstars concentrate on what *looks* good, not what *feels* good.
Adult film directors and actors/actresses know that they make popular videos by putting on a visual act, there is no guarantee that the sex positions are actually pleasurable, just because they look good it does not follow that they feel good.

Finally, it is almost universally acknowledged that porn is a gross misrepresentation of actual, loving sexual relationships.
Often, misinformation is worse than no information.

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?
Vox_Veritas
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3/23/2015 5:28:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:56:32 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:36:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

By this logic, drugs are good.

The effects of drugs vary greatly, both in regards to short-term and long-term effects. I am applying this logic to orgasms specifically, and by no means think that this logic is valid if placed on something like drugs. They are two very different things when we take the potential harms into consideration.

I also think there is a fundamental difference in the pleasure one is receiving when comparing drugs to orgasms. While the pleasures of drugs can feel orgasmic, they are not orgasm-inducing in the same manner as sexual excitement.

II. Using it for educational purposes

I believe another clear benefit one can gain from porn is in regards to the educational properties it has.

As creatures who learn through observation, it naturally follows that there'd be something to learn from observing porn. One thing, in particular, that can be learned from watching porn is techniques on pleasuring your partner sexually. As creatures with a herd mentality, we tend to mimic the actions and behavior of those around us. We don't do that for just anybody though, which is obvious by the fact that sometimes we observe someone doing something and think to ourselves how we'd never do such a thing. However, there are also cases where we observe someone we might hold in high regard and then act in a manner that is parallel to their own. Additionally, if we set out to learn something specifically, a rational person would seek out those who are deemed experts or professionals.

With that in mind, who are the experts at performing successful sexual techniques? Porn stars.

If we desire to educate ourselves on effective sexual techniques, it would make sense to look towards those who perform, and participate in, such things on a common basis. By watching porn, we are allowing ourselves to observe techniques that we might have never otherwise been exposed to. Furthermore, by utilizing some of the techniques we gained via observation, we might find that we have better sexual experiences ourselves.

Thus, when porn is used for educational purposes, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately allowing us to observe techniques that can lead to a better sexual experience.

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?

Why is this needed? There is no need for learning how to "perform" ahead of time; wouldn't the preferences of the other person be learned during the act?

While there is no "need", that doesn't mean there isn't "good reason for want". I would agree that in some cases the preferences of the other person can be learned during the act, however, how often do you have a sexual partner who tells you what he or she actually prefers while in the middle of sex? Sure, sometimes it'll happen, but in my experiences it's not been very often. Furthermore, there are times when the person might not even know what their own preferences are until their partner performs a specific act on them. One instance of this can be techniques for fingering the girl in order to make her "squirt" or "gush" which is a very physical orgasm in which the girl releases fluids (not pee) while achieving orgasm.The technique involves applying pressure with one hand right below her belly button, while the other hand has a finger or two inserted and gently applying pressure upwards toward the exterior hand while massaging the central bundle of nerves that rests of the roof of the main vagina cavity. It's a guaranteed way to make her achieve this rare type of orgasm, and in most of my personal experiences the girls had no idea that it was possible, while afterwards requesting nearly every-time that it be done again.

...I really didn't need to know that.

Hence there are benefits from learning such techniques through the observations of porn even if there is no real "need" to.

In any case, most likely one'd just be provoked to sexual excitement by the porn "education".

True, but again, such a thing is beneficial as it would lead to the pleasurable experience of an orgasm.
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3/23/2015 5:33:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:42:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
http://www.oprah.com...

In the article, the 5 main points of the Rabbi are this:

1) Porn in a drug that leads to addiction
2) Porn is a form of sexism
3) Porn portrays women in one of four degrading categories
4) Porn makes men get bored with their own wives
5) Porn cultivates a standard of beauty that no real woman can live up to

My responses:

1) Lack of supporting evidence. He makes that claim without sharing any evidence to support his assumption. Unless there is a study that shows porn is as addictive as heroin, I see no valid argument from him here.

2) Here he claims the objectification and commodification of women is a form of sexism. He fails to consider though that there are men who also feature in porn, almost as equally as women since most porn is heterosexual sex. So, unless his sexism argument can go both ways, this argument falls flat. He goes on to say, "he see's the walking gratification of his material urges"... false. How does the Rabbi know what *he* see's, is he able to jump into that man's shoes and feel what the man does? No.

3) This was the most amusing one of all. He says, " They're either a "greedy gold-digger," "mindless playmate," "insatiable nymphomaniac" or "one who craves pain,"..."

This would be true if not for the fact that porn films offer a wide variety of scenarios and fantasies. To say they are one of four of these things is absurd, as there are many other potential roles women can play in porn films. Some films don't feature women at all, so... yeah, this argument falls short due to its naive assumptions.

4) This was somewhat compelling. It is highly possible that men would start to lose interest in their own wives bodies after seeing beautiful women naked. If anything, this is why you should watch porn before getting married, so that you can set that standard high from the start and find yourself a wife that you won't get bored with after x amount of time. With that said, a man shouldn't be relying on porn regardless if he's already married. His wife should be taking care of his sexual needs so that he doesn't have to rely on porn for achieving orgasms. Additionally, if he's merely watching porn for educational purposes - then it's more likely that he's interested in performing better for his wife, which reflects his own positive intentions with his wife, rather than looking at porn-stars to replace the image of his own wife.

5) This is the generic argument most people use against anything featuring beautiful people, be it porn or fashion magazines. Again though, this could be avoided as long as the husband watches porn before selecting his wife. If a man isn't attacted to his wife, he has no place marrying her at all in my opinion, because he's just setting himself up for a life of disappointment. But, if we actually do want to use this logic, then we can apply it to basically anything new or shiny. People buy new cars because they look better than older ones, so should we ban the creation of new cars for this reason? No.

http://www.projectknow.com...

I don't get the point you were trying to make with this one...
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3/23/2015 5:52:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 5:10:24 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
That was garbage lol...

The first point had extremely flawed logic

Can you explain how? I'd like to understand why it's flawed logic so that if I am actually making some errors I won't make the same mistake twice.

and the second point doesn't actually justify watching pornography, it just states that you can learn from it.

Well yeah. It's the fact that you can learn from it that justifies watching it...

The second point conveniently ignores that you learn more than just sex positions from porn.

Well, sure, you can learn lots of things. Purely relating to aesthetics - you can learn what preference you have in regards to the various forms of the human body. Like nipple types, the different types of vagina lips, etc., and by doing so, while dating your potential wife you can see whether she has your preferences. If not, then move on to the next. I wouldn't want to marry someone, only to realize afterwards that I think she has an ugly vagina or breasts. That'd be awful.

I'm assuming though, by your tone, that you weren't talking about those kinds of things, so what do you mean by me "conveniently leaving out things"?

It also teaches watchers to objectify humans as sexual objects and creates an extremely unrealistic view of human sexuality and how humans engage and react in sexual situations. The most dangerous part about pornography isn't the consensual sex though. It is how porn desensitivizes humans sexually, which generally leads them to pursuing more perverted forms of pornography including rape porn, genital mutilations, child porn, and beastiality. This can have adverse effects on society.

Oh, nvm.

How does it "teach" watchers to objectify humans? Bsh1 said the same thing... I'd like to know how it would do that.

I think the last part about desensitizing things is off. You say it leads them to pursuing perverted forms but how would you know? Is that what happened to you? Is that what you read about from someone else? I don't think there is any substantial evidence to support this assumption of yours. It's almost as if you are viewing porn as a drug, and then applying the logic that if you try one drug you're gonna get into worse drugs later on. The problem with that assumption is that it only applies, in most cases, to those with an addictive personality. Furthermore, this is only in relation to drugs, not porn.

I've been watching porn here-and-there for about 10 years now (since I was around 15 years old), and have never made a leap to bestiality or rape porn, lol. I actually found a type of porn that I personally prefer (lesbians), and have stuck with that ever since. That's the problem though, this is only based on my own experiences, so I can't speak for anyone else - but neither can you. You can't just toss around the claim that it leads to more hardcore porn when in reality you have no proof aside from personal experiences that are either your own or others - and even then we can't be sure if the others' experiences are true in themselves.
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3/23/2015 5:55:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

II. Using it for educational purposes

I believe another clear benefit one can gain from porn is in regards to the educational properties it has.

As creatures who learn through observation, it naturally follows that there'd be something to learn from observing porn. One thing, in particular, that can be learned from watching porn is techniques on pleasuring your partner sexually. As creatures with a herd mentality, we tend to mimic the actions and behavior of those around us. We don't do that for just anybody though, which is obvious by the fact that sometimes we observe someone doing something and think to ourselves how we'd never do such a thing. However, there are also cases where we observe someone we might hold in high regard and then act in a manner that is parallel to their own. Additionally, if we set out to learn something specifically, a rational person would seek out those who are deemed experts or professionals.

With that in mind, who are the experts at performing successful sexual techniques? Porn stars.

If we desire to educate ourselves on effective sexual techniques, it would make sense to look towards those who perform, and participate in, such things on a common basis. By watching porn, we are allowing ourselves to observe techniques that we might have never otherwise been exposed to. Furthermore, by utilizing some of the techniques we gained via observation, we might find that we have better sexual experiences ourselves.

Thus, when porn is used for educational purposes, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately allowing us to observe techniques that can lead to a better sexual experience.

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?

So by having an orgasm I assume you mean masterbating to the viedo? I'd also have to agree on the educational part as watching a lot of transgendered porn was a huge turn on for me and helped me discover myself sexually.
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3/23/2015 6:13:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 5:16:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/23/2015 5:12:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:37:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
The issue with the observational learning argument is that porn teaches us to objectify others and to degrade or sexualize women (well, not in my case, but you know...)

How does it teach us to objectify others? I could see it enabling the objectification of others, but not how it would teach such a thing.

Porn treats others as simply sex objects. Sure, there is some porn out there that may treat people with the kind of emotional richness common to normal relationships, but usually it is merely, "you're hot...let's have sex." That teaches objectification by inducing modeling behaviors in those who watch it.

Ahh, okay, I see now. I appreciate the clarification in regards to how porn "teaches" objectification.

I agree that there is some porn out there that can and does treat people with some form of emotional richness common to normal relationships, and that a majority doesn't. With that said, I believe that your objectification point only applies to the first argument I gave, which was that it is beneficial to watch porn for the sake of achieving an orgasm. In that regard, I do believe objectification happens in some cases when people are watching porn to intensify their own sexual excitement. It's an unfortunate side-effect of watching others performing sexual acts indeed, but I don't think that the negative nature of objectification would stand to negate the second argument I presented, which covered the benefits of watching porn for educational purposes. In terms of watching it for educational purposes, I don't think objectification would come into play when the intent of the observer is solely to learn new techniques for future application in their own sexual experiences.

I also think the degrade point is kinda shaky. If anything, viewing something as degrading is a personal feeling based on the values of the perceiver. A majority of *career* porn stars take pride in their work, and don't view it as degrading at all. So I think that the degrading aspect of it all is ultimately something that falls on the perceiver.

That the stars themselves don't find it degrading says nothing about whether the viewers learn to degrade others from it.

I'm not sure I follow... this seems similar to the "teaching" point above so forgive me if it is, but how would viewers learn to degrade others from watching it?

The argument would have to be made that porn is degrading for everyone who participates in it, and I don't think there is any objective consensus that it is, due mostly to the pride that a majority of the porn actors/actresses have in their career choice.

My argument is not that it degrades the stars, but that it promotes male degradation of females.

Okay, I can understand that, but wouldn't that occur only if the porn film itself featured male degradation of females? It's seems like a very specific thing when considering the whole spectrum of porn. Furthermore, would that counter the benefits from either of my two arguments supporting porn, or is it just an overall negative aspect of porn that should be considered when balancing the pro's and con's of porn?
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3/23/2015 6:27:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 5:25:01 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

The pleasure of an orgasm is very short; a handful of seconds.

Actually, there are several methods known for extending the time/length of one's orgasm. That's a whole other discussion entirely though, so for the sake of this conversation I'll go along with this statement.

From the utilitarian perspective you are coming from, this pleasure has very little magnitude on the hedonic calculus (the scale of pleasure). More pleasure can be gained from more long-lasting pleasures such as reading a good book or baking a cake.

Well sure, but what does that have to do with the point that you can experience one of the most intense pleasures much easier by watching porn? While I totally agree that there are things out there which could lead to more long-lasting pleasures, I don't see how that necessarily negates my point from argument I.

Furthermore, there have been several studies that suggest that pornography could cause sexual and mental health problems, which will decrease one's pleasure in the future.

Key word - *could cause*. That's why we have to really analyze each study case-by-case and see if there really is any substantial connection between the assumed causes and effects. If you know of any solid studies that are worth looking into, please share them here and let's flesh them out.


II. Using it for educational purposes


This seems like a good argument, but you forget one thing:

Pornstars concentrate on what *looks* good, not what *feels* good.
Adult film directors and actors/actresses know that they make popular videos by putting on a visual act, there is no guarantee that the sex positions are actually pleasurable, just because they look good it does not follow that they feel good.

That is a very good point! Ultimately, I believe there are a variety of porn films out there, and as such it makes it really difficult to determine which ones feature porn that actually *feels* good for the actors/actresses, and which ones are just for show-only.

For me, I raised this argument because nearly every-time I've mimicked a position with my sexual partner, it's been good - sometimes phenomenal. In a previous response I made to someone else, I brought up how I watched a porn film where a guy used a certain technique while fingering his partner and how it resulted in his partner "gushing" which is when the female releases a large amount of fluid while achieving an orgasm. It looked like she was extremely pleased, and when I tried the technique out myself with my girlfriend at the time, she loved it so much that from that point on she requested I do it everytime.

So, while I do agree that it's hard to determine if the sexual positions and other acts in these films are truly just for show or actually feel good, the only way to really know is to try them ourselves. In my experiences, they have been, and thus I find it very beneficial in regards to educational purposes.

Finally, it is almost universally acknowledged that porn is a gross misrepresentation of actual, loving sexual relationships.
Often, misinformation is worse than no information.

Well, of course - but does that truly serve to negate the two arguments I presented, or is it rather just a negative aspect of porn that should be weighed when considering all of the pro's and con's?

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?
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3/23/2015 6:30:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 5:28:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:56:32 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:36:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

By this logic, drugs are good.

The effects of drugs vary greatly, both in regards to short-term and long-term effects. I am applying this logic to orgasms specifically, and by no means think that this logic is valid if placed on something like drugs. They are two very different things when we take the potential harms into consideration.

I also think there is a fundamental difference in the pleasure one is receiving when comparing drugs to orgasms. While the pleasures of drugs can feel orgasmic, they are not orgasm-inducing in the same manner as sexual excitement.

II. Using it for educational purposes

I believe another clear benefit one can gain from porn is in regards to the educational properties it has.

As creatures who learn through observation, it naturally follows that there'd be something to learn from observing porn. One thing, in particular, that can be learned from watching porn is techniques on pleasuring your partner sexually. As creatures with a herd mentality, we tend to mimic the actions and behavior of those around us. We don't do that for just anybody though, which is obvious by the fact that sometimes we observe someone doing something and think to ourselves how we'd never do such a thing. However, there are also cases where we observe someone we might hold in high regard and then act in a manner that is parallel to their own. Additionally, if we set out to learn something specifically, a rational person would seek out those who are deemed experts or professionals.

With that in mind, who are the experts at performing successful sexual techniques? Porn stars.

If we desire to educate ourselves on effective sexual techniques, it would make sense to look towards those who perform, and participate in, such things on a common basis. By watching porn, we are allowing ourselves to observe techniques that we might have never otherwise been exposed to. Furthermore, by utilizing some of the techniques we gained via observation, we might find that we have better sexual experiences ourselves.

Thus, when porn is used for educational purposes, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately allowing us to observe techniques that can lead to a better sexual experience.

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?

Why is this needed? There is no need for learning how to "perform" ahead of time; wouldn't the preferences of the other person be learned during the act?

While there is no "need", that doesn't mean there isn't "good reason for want". I would agree that in some cases the preferences of the other person can be learned during the act, however, how often do you have a sexual partner who tells you what he or she actually prefers while in the middle of sex? Sure, sometimes it'll happen, but in my experiences it's not been very often. Furthermore, there are times when the person might not even know what their own preferences are until their partner performs a specific act on them. One instance of this can be techniques for fingering the girl in order to make her "squirt" or "gush" which is a very physical orgasm in which the girl releases fluids (not pee) while achieving orgasm.The technique involves applying pressure with one hand right below her belly button, while the other hand has a finger or two inserted and gently applying pressure upwards toward the exterior hand while massaging the central bundle of nerves that rests of the roof of the main vagina cavity. It's a guaranteed way to make her achieve this rare type of orgasm, and in most of my personal experiences the girls had no idea that it was possible, while afterwards requesting nearly every-time that it be done again.

...I really didn't need to know that.

I don't mean to offend you, nor did I mean to do that with my reply, so please accept my apology if I did. I was merely presenting an example of a "good reason" in order to show that just because there isn't a "need" doesn't mean it isn't beneficial to do so.

Hence there are benefits from learning such techniques through the observations of porn even if there is no real "need" to.

In any case, most likely one'd just be provoked to sexual excitement by the porn "education".

True, but again, such a thing is beneficial as it would lead to the pleasurable experience of an orgasm.
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3/23/2015 6:34:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 5:55:37 PM, Absentia wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:13:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
There has always been some form of criticism against Porn, which has, in turn, created a huge taboo around both the subject itself and any legitimate discussions on it that are not based on emotional appeal. Personally, I enjoy porn, and I believe that there are several benefits that can come from watching it.

*This case will not include or cover participation in porn itself, but will rather focus solely on watching it*

I. Using it as a means for achieving orgasms.

An orgasm, according to Oxford dictionary is: A climax of sexual excitement, characterized by feelings of pleasure centered in the genitals. As one can see, an orgasm is characterized by feelings of pleasure and is a climax of sexual excitement.

Throughout history there have been great minds who've come in the form of philosophers, politicians, etc., who all value the pursuit of happiness with the aim of achieving the good life. If we focus specifically on the philosophers for a moment, we see that many of them agree that such a pursuit involves a fulfillment of a broad range of conditions, including physical as well as mental well-being. This position specifically can be attributed to Aristotle. Another philosopher who touches on this is Socrates, who recommended that we gain rational control over our desires. The reason both of these men stick out is because through them we can draw a connection between the pursuit of the good life and achieving or experiencing orgasms.

By allowing yourself to experience orgasms, you are reaching a climax of sexual excitement, and are completely engulfed with feelings of pleasure during that exact moment in time. Perhaps once that moment passes there might be other feelings that arise, but for that one moment in time you are met with a feeling of pleasure, and as such are experiencing a good moment in life, since the very meaning of the term pleasure is something which is enjoyable, i.e. - good.

In the pursuit of this good, porn encompasses a variety of stimuli which would serve to raise the levels of sexual excitement necessary to achieving an orgasm. As such, we can clearly see that the very nature of porn is to assist in the effort of reaching that moment of climax. Perhaps it's a nude image that assists in raising that level of sexual excitement, perhaps it's two people having intercourse, perhaps it's feet... ultimately, what porn does is it offers whatever you desire in order to raise your levels of sexual excitement. In doing so, it is acting as the agent which assists in achieving an orgasm, which in itself is a good.

Thus, when porn is used as a means for achieving an orgasm, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately helping you achieve that which is pleasurable.

II. Using it for educational purposes

I believe another clear benefit one can gain from porn is in regards to the educational properties it has.

As creatures who learn through observation, it naturally follows that there'd be something to learn from observing porn. One thing, in particular, that can be learned from watching porn is techniques on pleasuring your partner sexually. As creatures with a herd mentality, we tend to mimic the actions and behavior of those around us. We don't do that for just anybody though, which is obvious by the fact that sometimes we observe someone doing something and think to ourselves how we'd never do such a thing. However, there are also cases where we observe someone we might hold in high regard and then act in a manner that is parallel to their own. Additionally, if we set out to learn something specifically, a rational person would seek out those who are deemed experts or professionals.

With that in mind, who are the experts at performing successful sexual techniques? Porn stars.

If we desire to educate ourselves on effective sexual techniques, it would make sense to look towards those who perform, and participate in, such things on a common basis. By watching porn, we are allowing ourselves to observe techniques that we might have never otherwise been exposed to. Furthermore, by utilizing some of the techniques we gained via observation, we might find that we have better sexual experiences ourselves.

Thus, when porn is used for educational purposes, it serves a beneficial purpose, since it is ultimately allowing us to observe techniques that can lead to a better sexual experience.

**These are the two most immediate benefits I can gather from watching porn.**

Depending on the responses/outcome of this analysis, I might present further benefits at a later time.

Thoughts?

So by having an orgasm I assume you mean masterbating to the viedo?

I'm not sure I'm following what you mean. Can you rephrase that please?

I'd also have to agree on the educational part as watching a lot of transgendered porn was a huge turn on for me and helped me discover myself sexually.

That's wonderful :) I'm glad to hear that porn helped, at-least in some way, for you to discover yourself sexually. Ultimately, my point was that there are definitely some benefits to watching porn, and the educational aspect of it was one that stands out to me as a benefit.
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Blade-of-Truth
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3/23/2015 6:37:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 6:12:34 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
Sounds to me like a bunch of cognitive distortions being use to justify someone's behavior.

I don't think I'm fully following what you mean. What would be the cognitive distortions and what are the main issues with the two arguments I presented?
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Lee001
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3/23/2015 6:39:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As a Feminist, I'm sure nobody would want to hear my opinion.
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1harderthanyouthink
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3/23/2015 7:19:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 6:39:48 PM, Lee001 wrote:
As a Feminist, I'm sure nobody would want to hear my opinion.

I can think of a few people that wouldn't.

I assure you that most people don't mind you sharing.
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Gustav_Adolf_II
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3/23/2015 7:37:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
THE INTERNET IS FOR PORN!

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm sorry, I just had to say it, I couldn't help myself. Good argument for porn existing.
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SamStevens
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3/23/2015 7:39:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 6:39:48 PM, Lee001 wrote:
As a Feminist, I'm sure nobody would want to hear my opinion.

Feel free to share your opinion on the matter.
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bsh1
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3/23/2015 8:16:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 6:13:07 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/23/2015 5:16:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/23/2015 5:12:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/23/2015 4:37:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
The issue with the observational learning argument is that porn teaches us to objectify others and to degrade or sexualize women (well, not in my case, but you know...)

How does it teach us to objectify others? I could see it enabling the objectification of others, but not how it would teach such a thing.

Porn treats others as simply sex objects. Sure, there is some porn out there that may treat people with the kind of emotional richness common to normal relationships, but usually it is merely, "you're hot...let's have sex." That teaches objectification by inducing modeling behaviors in those who watch it.

Ahh, okay, I see now. I appreciate the clarification in regards to how porn "teaches" objectification.

I agree that there is some porn out there that can and does treat people with some form of emotional richness common to normal relationships, and that a majority doesn't.

Okay.

With that said, I believe that your objectification point only applies to the first argument I gave, which was that it is beneficial to watch porn for the sake of achieving an orgasm. In that regard, I do believe objectification happens in some cases when people are watching porn to intensify their own sexual excitement.

I disagree. I think it has broader impacts about how we interact with and view others in society, and the psychological, social, and health impacts that it has.

That the stars themselves don't find it degrading says nothing about whether the viewers learn to degrade others from it.

I'm not sure I follow... this seems similar to the "teaching" point above so forgive me if it is, but how would viewers learn to degrade others from watching it?

Sure, but it calls attention to the fact that women specifically are objectified, which in turn makes it easier to degrade them. Degradation is one step beyond objectification.
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xXCryptoXx
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3/23/2015 8:20:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 5:52:05 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/23/2015 5:10:24 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
That was garbage lol...

The first point had extremely flawed logic

Can you explain how? I'd like to understand why it's flawed logic so that if I am actually making some errors I won't make the same mistake twice.

Your first point seems to equate pleasure with what is 'good.' This to me implies moral goodness since you claimed that all humans ought to pursue happiness, and that pleasure is a form of happiness so pleasure is therefore good. There are a couple problems here.

First, just because something is pleasurable doesn't mean it is morally good. Let's say there was a person I worked with who I absolutely despised. One day out of pure hatred I stab him and kill him. Killing him brought great pleasure to me because I hated him and it fulfilled my desire to get him out of my life, but certainly this doesn't suddenly mean that murder is a morally justifiable act. Using the logic you presented, any act could be made morally justified as long as it fulfills the desires (and therefore brings pleasure) to the agent who committed the action. This idea leans dangerously close to the moral egoism and nihilism that Envisage argues in favor of.

Second, your first point fails to distinguish between different types and levels of happiness. Sure philosophers advocate the pursuit of happiness, but it is important to know what exactly the "happiness: they advocate is. Some philosophers would say true happiness comes from loving your fellow neighbor and living a life of humble charity. Other (more heartless) philosophers would say that as long as you are fulfilling your own selfish desires you are living a happy life. Here's an example of what I mean by different types/levels of happiness. If Peter ate a Big Mac everyday he would be very happy because he absolutely adores Big Macs and he never gets tired of them. Peter however, also wants to pursue a healthy lifestyle for his own personal benefit and also because he has a family to take care of. In both situations Peter would be happy, whether he chose to eat a Big Mac everyday or whether he chose to refrain from eating Big Macs and pursue a healthy lifestyle. The difference here is that in the long run, Peter be brought more joy and happiness if he chose to live a healthy lifestyle. A healthy lifestyle grants more satisfaction than one in which he gorges himself with unhealthy food everyday. The point of this example is just because something may make you happy doesn't mean that it is within your benefit overall, or even that that happiness will ultimately grant you a fulfilling life. So to relate this back to the original point, just because masturbating to pornography may grant you some short term pleasure doesn't mean that this act will lead to a happy or fulfilling life, nor does it follow that such an act is morally good just because it is pleasurable.

and the second point doesn't actually justify watching pornography, it just states that you can learn from it.

Well yeah. It's the fact that you can learn from it that justifies watching it...

Just because an act may have benefits to it does not follow that the act is therefore morally sound. Go back to my example of me murdering my co-worker because I hate him. Sure I would be benefited because I would no longer have to bear my co-worker, but it doesn't follow that this act of murder is morally justified. In order to determine the morality of an action, you must focus on the essential properties of the action, not its accidental properties.

How does it "teach" watchers to objectify humans? Bsh1 said the same thing... I'd like to know how it would do that.

I think Bsh1 gave a response to this already, but if you want me to give a response also I will.

I think the last part about desensitizing things is off. You say it leads them to pursuing perverted forms but how would you know?

Studies. To be fair though, this is only common among people who are addicted to pornography, and not so much to people who keep control over the amount they consume and how often they consume. However, even if you are not within the percentage of people who are addicted to pornography, there are still moral reasons as to why you should not watch it.

It's almost as if you are viewing porn as a drug, and then applying the logic that if you try one drug you're gonna get into worse drugs later on.

Porn is a drug, just not in the common sense of the word. Like other drugs, it hijacks the reward system in the brain and can lead to mass amounts of dopamine being released in short periods of time. Although pornography may not have the same adverse physical effects that drugs can have, it does have quite a few adverse mental effects. Pornography and masturbation has actually led many teenagers into depression for the same reason drugs have. Human beings seek more than just pleasure, we seek fulfillment. Drugs and pornography can grant someone pleasure, but it deprives humans of fulfillment. Many teenagers think, "why do x when I can sit on my computer and masturbate all day and get the same (or more) pleasure?" This very thought has led both me and friends of mine into depression due to lack of fulfillment in life.

Pornography operates under the same principle drugs do. Just because you smoke marijuana doesn't necessarily mean you will find yourself snorting cocaine later in life, but it does happen. The same applies to pornography. First you start at looking at girls in bikinis, then you get interested in what is under the bikini, and then the ball continues to roll from there. It may stop early for some, but not all.

The problem with that assumption is that it only applies, in most cases, to those with an addictive personality. Furthermore, this is only in relation to drugs, not porn.

Yes this is true, but you make it seem that pornography addiction is an uncommon thing, when the truth of the matter is that it is not uncommon at all.

I've been watching porn here-and-there for about 10 years now (since I was around 15 years old), and have never made a leap to bestiality or rape porn, lol. I actually found a type of porn that I personally prefer (lesbians), and have stuck with that ever since. That's the problem though, this is only based on my own experiences, so I can't speak for anyone else - but neither can you. You can't just toss around the claim that it leads to more hardcore porn when in reality you have no proof aside from personal experiences that are either your own or others - and even then we can't be sure if the others' experiences are true in themselves.

This is not merely a claim. This is an observed scientific phenomena that has been cited in studies.
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thett3
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3/23/2015 8:44:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Am I the only one who is just really bored by porn? Idk. If I can't feasibly imagine myself with the person, it just doesn't work for me. I'm like 1000000x more attracted to even marginal people that I actually know than the hottest of porn stars...is this normal?
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3/23/2015 10:05:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
For me, the analysis starts and ends with the question of why should I be allowed to tell (and actually use force upon) another individual what they can and cannot do with their bodies. I've always been mystified by feminists who argue against pornography and other sex work (ie, prostitution) on the basis of objectification, or the lack of control over one's body, when I think it's almost painfully obvious that a person choosing to engage in sex work is an act that is one of the ultimate exercises of bodily autonomy.
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