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Prayer in monofaith classrooms

Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?
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Khaos_Mage
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3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.
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Maikuru
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3/27/2015 4:37:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

What kind of Christian?
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Maikuru
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3/27/2015 4:37:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I agree.
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Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.
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Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 5:31:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 4:37:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

What kind of Christian?

People who believe in the Trinity, the birth and life of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is both God and the Son of God, that Jesus was also fully man, that Jesus was crucified, that Jesus rose from the dead 2 days later, that Jesus ascended into Heaven, and that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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SeventhProfessor
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3/27/2015 5:32:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

Since it's a public school, tax dollars are still being used to pay the teacher for the purpose of education. Doing so in free time would be alright, but during class is not.
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Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 5:35:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 5:32:00 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

Since it's a public school, tax dollars are still being used to pay the teacher for the purpose of education. Doing so in free time would be alright, but during class is not.

Public money is going towards abortion; Christians disagree with abortion. That religion is being "established" whenever literally no one is being discriminated against by it means squat, in my opinion. If an all-Buddhist classroom was to meditate before beginning schoolwork, I'd have no problem with that.
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Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 5:39:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that a single person of a different faith in that classroom would be enough to prohibit it, but when there's not, I say go for it.
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ConservativePolitico
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3/27/2015 6:20:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 5:39:18 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I think that a single person of a different faith in that classroom would be enough to prohibit it, but when there's not, I say go for it.

Hmm. I mean... if a student asked to pray and the teacher allowed it because the entire class was Christian maybe. Can the teacher start or lead a prayer in this case? No I don't think so.
Khaos_Mage
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3/27/2015 10:30:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

I'm sorry, did I miss the part where everyone in the country is Christian?
The issue is compulsory education and tax dollars. A Muslim man should not have his tax dollars spent on Christian prayer in school.
My work here is, finally, done.
Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 10:33:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:30:57 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

I'm sorry, did I miss the part where everyone in the country is Christian?
The issue is compulsory education and tax dollars. A Muslim man should not have his tax dollars spent on Christian prayer in school.

It's not like they're not endorsing anything the kids don't already believe in. Like I stated before, I'd be perfectly fine with it going the other way around (Muslim classroom praying).
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Maikuru
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3/27/2015 10:35:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 5:31:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:37:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

What kind of Christian?

People who believe in the Trinity, the birth and life of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is both God and the Son of God, that Jesus was also fully man, that Jesus was crucified, that Jesus rose from the dead 2 days later, that Jesus ascended into Heaven, and that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

What if the class includes different sects, where beliefs differed on these issues? Would that matter?

I'm not Christian, so I'm not sure if that sort of thing matters. When I asked what kind of Christian, I was referring more to the different denominations. The fact that you named those elements specifically makes me think that particular combination is somehow relevant, and I wonder how this would all be known in a classroom.
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Khaos_Mage
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3/27/2015 10:36:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:33:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:30:57 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

I'm sorry, did I miss the part where everyone in the country is Christian?
The issue is compulsory education and tax dollars. A Muslim man should not have his tax dollars spent on Christian prayer in school.

It's not like they're not endorsing anything the kids don't already believe in. Like I stated before, I'd be perfectly fine with it going the other way around (Muslim classroom praying).

Why is a Muslim forced to pay for Christian kids' prayer time in a public school?
It's not an issue of indoctrination, it's an issue of public funds endorsing religion.
My work here is, finally, done.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/27/2015 10:38:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

No. A lot of first amendment cases involving public schools were actually backed by Jehovah's Witnesses who only wanted their version of Christianity taught to their children.

The point is, it's impossible to know what any of those children believe for a fact. It's also well within reason that the lone dissenting child would feel social pressure from his largely Christian peers, or from the authority figure now on the cusp of acting in a religious capacity, to stay silent. Imagine, for example, a class of monodenominational Christian kids who all pray every day, and then an atheist child moves in, says that he doesn't believe, and all of the sudden their entire group cohesion is broken up. That child would most certainly become the target of hostility.

Personally, I don't get the fascination amongst religious people with having the government involved in their child's religious education and beliefs. Isn't that the whole point of having a church community, and of focusing on the cohesion of the family unit?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 10:38:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:36:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:33:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:30:57 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

I'm sorry, did I miss the part where everyone in the country is Christian?
The issue is compulsory education and tax dollars. A Muslim man should not have his tax dollars spent on Christian prayer in school.

It's not like they're not endorsing anything the kids don't already believe in. Like I stated before, I'd be perfectly fine with it going the other way around (Muslim classroom praying).

Why is a Muslim forced to pay for Christian kids' prayer time in a public school?
It's not an issue of indoctrination, it's an issue of public funds endorsing religion.

The Muslim guy isn't funding their prayer (is there even a prayer cost?).
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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 10:39:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:38:15 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

No. A lot of first amendment cases involving public schools were actually backed by Jehovah's Witnesses who only wanted their version of Christianity taught to their children.

The point is, it's impossible to know what any of those children believe for a fact. It's also well within reason that the lone dissenting child would feel social pressure from his largely Christian peers, or from the authority figure now on the cusp of acting in a religious capacity, to stay silent. Imagine, for example, a class of monodenominational Christian kids who all pray every day, and then an atheist child moves in, says that he doesn't believe, and all of the sudden their entire group cohesion is broken up. That child would most certainly become the target of hostility.

Personally, I don't get the fascination amongst religious people with having the government involved in their child's religious education and beliefs. Isn't that the whole point of having a church community, and of focusing on the cohesion of the family unit?

So basically you're saying the child could be a secret atheist or something.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 10:41:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:35:52 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:31:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:37:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

What kind of Christian?

People who believe in the Trinity, the birth and life of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is both God and the Son of God, that Jesus was also fully man, that Jesus was crucified, that Jesus rose from the dead 2 days later, that Jesus ascended into Heaven, and that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

What if the class includes different sects, where beliefs differed on these issues? Would that matter?

I'm not Christian, so I'm not sure if that sort of thing matters. When I asked what kind of Christian, I was referring more to the different denominations. The fact that you named those elements specifically makes me think that particular combination is somehow relevant, and I wonder how this would all be known in a classroom.

I seriously doubt that the doctrinal differences would come into play during a simple morning prayer.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/27/2015 10:45:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:41:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:35:52 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:31:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:37:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

What kind of Christian?

People who believe in the Trinity, the birth and life of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is both God and the Son of God, that Jesus was also fully man, that Jesus was crucified, that Jesus rose from the dead 2 days later, that Jesus ascended into Heaven, and that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

What if the class includes different sects, where beliefs differed on these issues? Would that matter?

I'm not Christian, so I'm not sure if that sort of thing matters. When I asked what kind of Christian, I was referring more to the different denominations. The fact that you named those elements specifically makes me think that particular combination is somehow relevant, and I wonder how this would all be known in a classroom.

I seriously doubt that the doctrinal differences would come into play during a simple morning prayer.

Well, the premise is that they all believe the same thing, right? I'm just wondering how feasible that is. When I asked what kind of Christian, you provided quite a list of criteria. I'm assuming disagreements matter.
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Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 10:46:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:45:22 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:41:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:35:52 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:31:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:37:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

What kind of Christian?

People who believe in the Trinity, the birth and life of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is both God and the Son of God, that Jesus was also fully man, that Jesus was crucified, that Jesus rose from the dead 2 days later, that Jesus ascended into Heaven, and that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

What if the class includes different sects, where beliefs differed on these issues? Would that matter?

I'm not Christian, so I'm not sure if that sort of thing matters. When I asked what kind of Christian, I was referring more to the different denominations. The fact that you named those elements specifically makes me think that particular combination is somehow relevant, and I wonder how this would all be known in a classroom.

I seriously doubt that the doctrinal differences would come into play during a simple morning prayer.

Well, the premise is that they all believe the same thing, right? I'm just wondering how feasible that is. When I asked what kind of Christian, you provided quite a list of criteria. I'm assuming disagreements matter.

I'm pretty sure that at least 90% of Christians agree with all of the criteria provided above.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/27/2015 10:47:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:39:45 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:38:15 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

No. A lot of first amendment cases involving public schools were actually backed by Jehovah's Witnesses who only wanted their version of Christianity taught to their children.

The point is, it's impossible to know what any of those children believe for a fact. It's also well within reason that the lone dissenting child would feel social pressure from his largely Christian peers, or from the authority figure now on the cusp of acting in a religious capacity, to stay silent. Imagine, for example, a class of monodenominational Christian kids who all pray every day, and then an atheist child moves in, says that he doesn't believe, and all of the sudden their entire group cohesion is broken up. That child would most certainly become the target of hostility.

Personally, I don't get the fascination amongst religious people with having the government involved in their child's religious education and beliefs. Isn't that the whole point of having a church community, and of focusing on the cohesion of the family unit?

So basically you're saying the child could be a secret atheist or something.

I'm saying that the vast majority of children who are atheists would not speak out for fear of social reprisal. I'm also saying that Christians can be opposed to prayer of this sort, either on principle or due to conflict over doctrine, and could also be cowed. And that it's absurd for a group of people who believe that the government cannot be entrusted with regulation will hand off their children to receive their religious instruction at its feet.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Vox_Veritas
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3/27/2015 10:52:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:47:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:39:45 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:38:15 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

No. A lot of first amendment cases involving public schools were actually backed by Jehovah's Witnesses who only wanted their version of Christianity taught to their children.

The point is, it's impossible to know what any of those children believe for a fact. It's also well within reason that the lone dissenting child would feel social pressure from his largely Christian peers, or from the authority figure now on the cusp of acting in a religious capacity, to stay silent. Imagine, for example, a class of monodenominational Christian kids who all pray every day, and then an atheist child moves in, says that he doesn't believe, and all of the sudden their entire group cohesion is broken up. That child would most certainly become the target of hostility.

Personally, I don't get the fascination amongst religious people with having the government involved in their child's religious education and beliefs. Isn't that the whole point of having a church community, and of focusing on the cohesion of the family unit?

So basically you're saying the child could be a secret atheist or something.

I'm saying that the vast majority of children who are atheists would not speak out for fear of social reprisal. I'm also saying that Christians can be opposed to prayer of this sort, either on principle or due to conflict over doctrine, and could also be cowed. And that it's absurd for a group of people who believe that the government cannot be entrusted with regulation will hand off their children to receive their religious instruction at its feet.

It'd be the individual teacher; the Government itself would not warrant it or encourage it; they'd simply allow it.
The thing about "infiltrators" in the classroom would probably be the biggest problem with this, I admit.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/27/2015 10:55:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:46:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:45:22 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:41:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:35:52 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:31:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:37:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

What kind of Christian?

People who believe in the Trinity, the birth and life of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is both God and the Son of God, that Jesus was also fully man, that Jesus was crucified, that Jesus rose from the dead 2 days later, that Jesus ascended into Heaven, and that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

What if the class includes different sects, where beliefs differed on these issues? Would that matter?

I'm not Christian, so I'm not sure if that sort of thing matters. When I asked what kind of Christian, I was referring more to the different denominations. The fact that you named those elements specifically makes me think that particular combination is somehow relevant, and I wonder how this would all be known in a classroom.

I seriously doubt that the doctrinal differences would come into play during a simple morning prayer.

Well, the premise is that they all believe the same thing, right? I'm just wondering how feasible that is. When I asked what kind of Christian, you provided quite a list of criteria. I'm assuming disagreements matter.

I'm pretty sure that at least 90% of Christians agree with all of the criteria provided above.

The sheer number of Christian denominations makes that statement unlikely, but the fact that a list of criteria exists at all calls into question the feasibility of this premise. Is there going to be a daily role call to ensure everyone still agrees with each of these factors? How many would a child need to disagree with before the class is no longer considered homogeneous? What if the teacher or a student believers a different criteria is a necessity of Christianity?

I would say that this practice probably shouldn't exist, but that's more for legal and psychological issues. I'm just more interested in discussing the logistics of this idea lol
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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3/27/2015 10:58:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 10:55:53 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:46:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:45:22 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:41:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 10:35:52 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:31:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:37:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

What kind of Christian?

People who believe in the Trinity, the birth and life of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is both God and the Son of God, that Jesus was also fully man, that Jesus was crucified, that Jesus rose from the dead 2 days later, that Jesus ascended into Heaven, and that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

What if the class includes different sects, where beliefs differed on these issues? Would that matter?

I'm not Christian, so I'm not sure if that sort of thing matters. When I asked what kind of Christian, I was referring more to the different denominations. The fact that you named those elements specifically makes me think that particular combination is somehow relevant, and I wonder how this would all be known in a classroom.

I seriously doubt that the doctrinal differences would come into play during a simple morning prayer.

Well, the premise is that they all believe the same thing, right? I'm just wondering how feasible that is. When I asked what kind of Christian, you provided quite a list of criteria. I'm assuming disagreements matter.

I'm pretty sure that at least 90% of Christians agree with all of the criteria provided above.

The sheer number of Christian denominations makes that statement unlikely, but the fact that a list of criteria exists at all calls into question the feasibility of this premise. Is there going to be a daily role call to ensure everyone still agrees with each of these factors? How many would a child need to disagree with before the class is no longer considered homogeneous? What if the teacher or a student believers a different criteria is a necessity of Christianity?

I would say that this practice probably shouldn't exist, but that's more for legal and psychological issues. I'm just more interested in discussing the logistics of this idea lol

It'd go like this:

Teacher: In the name of the Father, Son, and...
Student: I don't believe in the Trinity.

That'd be it. Poof. But the likelihood of this happening is slim.
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LaughItUpLydia
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3/27/2015 11:18:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

Yes. The Constitution says to protect religion, so anyone should be able to pray and read the Bible in public (school).
UndeniableReality
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3/28/2015 10:28:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

That would be time taken away from education, unless it was an after-school voluntary club or something.

In the hypothetical situation above, I'd much prefer if the teacher took the time to teach some critical thinking instead (before someone gets offended and aggressive, I should point out that I'm being facetious).
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,173
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3/28/2015 11:40:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

Government money is not to be used to promote any particular religion.
That is the issue. Not whether or not the participants are in agreement.
Government paid teacher, in government provided building, on government time, means no promotion of any particular religion.
Clear cut.
Vox_Veritas
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3/28/2015 1:51:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/28/2015 10:28:45 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 3/27/2015 3:55:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Let's say that there's a classroom in a public school in the United States. 100% of students are Christian. The teacher is also a Christian.
Should they be allowed to pray?

That would be time taken away from education, unless it was an after-school voluntary club or something.

In the hypothetical situation above, I'd much prefer if the teacher took the time to teach some critical thinking instead (before someone gets offended and aggressive, I should point out that I'm being facetious).

It'd take maybe one minute.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Vox_Veritas
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3/28/2015 1:53:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/28/2015 11:40:53 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

Government money is not to be used to promote any particular religion.
That is the issue. Not whether or not the participants are in agreement.
Government paid teacher, in government provided building, on government time, means no promotion of any particular religion.
Clear cut.

But in this case, a lack of neutrality would only be beneficial. It'd make no sense to force neutrality in this case.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Welfare-Worker
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3/28/2015 4:23:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/28/2015 1:53:48 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/28/2015 11:40:53 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 3/27/2015 5:28:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/27/2015 4:26:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Nope.

However, even in a "mixed" school, I do think that if students, at their own behest, want to have prayer time in an unused classroom during a scheduled break (e.g. recess), they should be able to, as long as any other student can for faith purposes.

I think that they should. The Establishment Clause was not put into effect to repress the majority; rather, it is necessary to ensure that the minority is protected. But, if there is no minority in question, then enforcement of this rule would just be plain stupid.

Government money is not to be used to promote any particular religion.
That is the issue. Not whether or not the participants are in agreement.
Government paid teacher, in government provided building, on government time, means no promotion of any particular religion.
Clear cut.

But in this case, a lack of neutrality would only be beneficial. It'd make no sense to force neutrality in this case.

It is a money issue. a government Freedom From Religion issue.
it has nothing to do with neutrality, or whether or not participants are in agreement.
Nothing to do with neutrality.

If every single person in the U.S. swore they were Christians, all of the same exact sect, and no one doubted this or objected, it would still be against the constitution, for this to happen in any school, anywhere.
The founding fathers did not want another England, Church of England.
They had enough of that.
No government support of any particular religion, under any circumstances, no exceptions.
Clear cut.