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Visual privilege

Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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4/2/2015 12:39:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

Sometimes, I wear color-filtering sunglasses as a sobering reminder of the tribulations faced by those who don't share my privileged position. It really does help to take a walk in another person's shoes from time to time.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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4/2/2015 12:50:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

First you insult me and then you want to be my friend? I am done with you troll.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

http://qz.com...

What part of this did you not get when I explained it to you before?
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Bennett91
Posts: 4,206
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4/2/2015 1:59:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

Excuse me Brian, saying she failed is ableism. And miserably? Wow way to use a term used by depressed people to degrade someone. And saying that to a being that identifies as a woman no less? Misogyny.

Check your privilege.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 2:01:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 1:59:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

Excuse me Brian, saying she failed is ableism. And miserably? Wow way to use a term used by depressed people to degrade someone. And saying that to a being that identifies as a woman no less? Misogyny.

Check your privilege.

I love how everyone thinks they're the kings and queens of satire on this site.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,206
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4/2/2015 2:06:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 2:01:46 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:59:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

Excuse me Brian, saying she failed is ableism. And miserably? Wow way to use a term used by depressed people to degrade someone. And saying that to a being that identifies as a woman no less? Misogyny.

Check your privilege.

I love how everyone thinks they're the kings and queens of satire on this site.

Oh great now you're forcing everyone into a gender binary based on hierarchically classist and oppressive regimes? Wow, I can't even.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 2:08:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 2:06:07 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/2/2015 2:01:46 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:59:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

Excuse me Brian, saying she failed is ableism. And miserably? Wow way to use a term used by depressed people to degrade someone. And saying that to a being that identifies as a woman no less? Misogyny.

Check your privilege.

I love how everyone thinks they're the kings and queens of satire on this site.

Oh great now you're forcing everyone into a gender binary based on hierarchically classist and oppressive regimes? Wow, I can't even.

LOL okay. I'll leave you to your ridicule of actual issues until you're ready to have a rational discussion.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/2/2015 2:41:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

Immunity is being used in a technical legal sense, e.g. immunity to liability.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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4/2/2015 6:15:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

What if we would rather just recognize that homosexuals are being discriminated against? That identifies the root of the problem a lot better than recognizing that some random, esoteric dictionary definition of "privilege" applies to me.
anything your heart desires
Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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4/2/2015 6:17:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

How? It is literally the *exact* same thing.
Non-color blind people have an immunity to not being able to see in color! They're privileged!
anything your heart desires
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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4/2/2015 7:06:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

I think this is sloppy language. Being straight is a privilege like not being clinically retarded is being intelligent. Instead of calling straight people privileged, why don't we acknowledge that everyone else is unfairly disadvantaged and work from there? I think that is actually more productive.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/2/2015 8:54:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

This thread is so ignorant.
What about those that have actual visionary problems, too, like myopia?

We have no right to treat our disability (vision is not healthcare), and we are constantly oppressed by society, often depicted as nerds, social outcasts, or losers, and even openly discriminated against by our military. Talk about privilege!

I know, you'll say that there are "valid reasons" I can't fly a plane, but you don't know me. Don't judge me based on my four eyes. I am a man. A person, who feels and loves and just wants to not be picked on because of my looks.
My work here is, finally, done.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/2/2015 9:31:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 6:17:59 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

How? It is literally the *exact* same thing.
Non-color blind people have an immunity to not being able to see in color! They're privileged!

Here's just some ways how we are oppressed by something we cannot choose.

http://wereadbetter.com...

It is a sad cruel life we must suffer.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/2/2015 9:32:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 8:54:04 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

This thread is so ignorant.
What about those that have actual visionary problems, too, like myopia?

We have no right to treat our disability (vision is not healthcare), and we are constantly oppressed by society, often depicted as nerds, social outcasts, or losers, and even openly discriminated against by our military. Talk about privilege!

I know, you'll say that there are "valid reasons" I can't fly a plane, but you don't know me. Don't judge me based on my four eyes. I am a man. A person, who feels and loves and just wants to not be picked on because of my looks.

I feel you, brother.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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4/2/2015 11:18:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 7:06:21 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

I think this is sloppy language. Being straight is a privilege like not being clinically retarded is being intelligent. Instead of calling straight people privileged, why don't we acknowledge that everyone else is unfairly disadvantaged and work from there? I think that is actually more productive.

Many have tried hammering that same message into his thick skull.... needless to say, it didn't work. I would recommend not making my mistake of engaging with him over an extended period of time.
anything your heart desires
Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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4/2/2015 11:21:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 9:31:45 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 4/2/2015 6:17:59 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

How? It is literally the *exact* same thing.
Non-color blind people have an immunity to not being able to see in color! They're privileged!

Here's just some ways how we are oppressed by something we cannot choose.

http://wereadbetter.com...

It is a sad cruel life we must suffer.

omg my dream is to be a baggage handler!
I feel so privileged T_T
anything your heart desires
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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4/2/2015 11:25:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 11:21:32 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 9:31:45 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 4/2/2015 6:17:59 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

How? It is literally the *exact* same thing.
Non-color blind people have an immunity to not being able to see in color! They're privileged!

Here's just some ways how we are oppressed by something we cannot choose.

http://wereadbetter.com...

It is a sad cruel life we must suffer.

omg my dream is to be a baggage handler!
I feel so privileged T_T

Hay I did that for American Airlines :D they never even gave me a color test tho.
Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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4/2/2015 11:30:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 11:25:08 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/2/2015 11:21:32 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 9:31:45 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 4/2/2015 6:17:59 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

How? It is literally the *exact* same thing.
Non-color blind people have an immunity to not being able to see in color! They're privileged!

Here's just some ways how we are oppressed by something we cannot choose.

http://wereadbetter.com...

It is a sad cruel life we must suffer.

omg my dream is to be a baggage handler!
I feel so privileged T_T

Hay I did that for American Airlines :D they never even gave me a color test tho.

YOU'RE MY NEW ROLE MODEL
anything your heart desires
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 3:03:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 2:41:22 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

Immunity is being used in a technical legal sense, e.g. immunity to liability.

Feel free to prove this statement.

Definition of Immunity:

protection or exemption from something, especially an obligation or penalty.

Up until the 1960's or 1970's, homosexuality was punishable by law in the United States. Today, homosexuality is only recognized as a protected class in only 17 of 50 U.S. states. Some of the rest of those states have laws that allow discrimination based on sexual orientation, which disproportionately affects sexual minorities (gay, lesbian and bisexual individuals), which makes heterosexuals, who are the majority, virtually immune to the same stigma. Discrimination against heterosexuals, based on sexual orientation, is practically non-existent.

https://www.aclu.org...

https://www.americanprogress.org...
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 3:03:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 6:15:47 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

What if we would rather just recognize that homosexuals are being discriminated against? That identifies the root of the problem a lot better than recognizing that some random, esoteric dictionary definition of "privilege" applies to me.

Okay, but that still doesn't change the fact that your privilege exists. If you recognize the fact that homosexuals are disproportionately discriminated against compared to heterosexuals in society, you have already recognized your own privilege.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 3:04:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 6:17:59 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:05:03 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

You tried... you really did. And failed miserably.

How? It is literally the *exact* same thing.
Non-color blind people have an immunity to not being able to see in color! They're privileged!

Feel free to show me the statistics that indicate people who are colorblind are disproportionately discriminated against compare to people who are not. Otherwise this thread is just childish and inconsiderate.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 3:04:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 7:06:21 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

I think this is sloppy language. Being straight is a privilege like not being clinically retarded is being intelligent. Instead of calling straight people privileged, why don't we acknowledge that everyone else is unfairly disadvantaged and work from there? I think that is actually more productive.

You can argue semantics all you want. It doesn't change my initial argument. That fact that everyone else, who is not heterosexual, is unfairly disadvantaged DOES make heterosexuals privileged. If you don't want to look at it that way, then don't, but it doesn't make it any less valid.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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4/2/2015 3:04:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 11:18:23 AM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/2/2015 7:06:21 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

I think this is sloppy language. Being straight is a privilege like not being clinically retarded is being intelligent. Instead of calling straight people privileged, why don't we acknowledge that everyone else is unfairly disadvantaged and work from there? I think that is actually more productive.

Many have tried hammering that same message into his thick skull.... needless to say, it didn't work. I would recommend not making my mistake of engaging with him over an extended period of time.

Can you ever argue without being condescending and throwing jabs at your opponent? That is why nothing is being accomplished, because you're rude.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/2/2015 3:35:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 3:03:53 PM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 2:41:22 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 2:00:31 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:50:43 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:36:40 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:19:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 12:36:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All you non-color blind people need to recognize the visual privilege that you have over color blind people.

I completely agree with this. If we had to wallow in all the non-detriments we enjoy, we'd have no time for anything else. I don't have cancer. Or a third eye. Or Celiac's. Or Down's. I'm able bodied. Not mentally ill. Intelligent. Had middle income parents. Live in the US. Have food on my table.

Am I a bad person because I don't run through that checklist every morning and guilt myself for the "privileges" I've enjoyed?

Funny, because nobody is asking you to feel guilty for anything. The problem here is that you think recognizing your privilege and not using it against other people means you should feel guilty. It doesn't. I don't feel guilty for being a cis male, but I recognize the advantages I have over trans people in the world I live in and don't deny those advantages or use them against anyone else. I at least try to understand the challenges that trans people face and do what I can to not add to the stigma whenever it's necessary. Do I also face challenges? Yes. But I do not because of my gender, and that gives me an advantage.

Being privileged doesn't make you a bad person. It's when you deny that privilege, pretend it doesn't exist and act as if people who don't benefit from the same privileges as you are treated equally in society when they aren't and simutaneously benefiting from it and being against anything that would potential level the playing field that you become a direct cause of the stigma. Calling you privileged is not an attack on you.

You were so busy feeling oppressed by my post that you failed to actually notice my view on the issue. I don't think gay people should be stigmatized by society. I've written amicus briefs in favor of same-sex marriage. I never said I wanted an unequal society. And I don't use my straight-ness against anyone, as you claim. I just have a problem with defining a norm as a privilege. Not having people stigmatize you is a norm; the absence if stigma is not a privilege, it's just the way things are supposed to be.

I didn't feel "oppressed" by your post, I was merely responding to it. I already know you don't think gay people, or any people should be stigmatized by society, you made that clear. But you still fail to understand the concept of privilege and what it refers you. The fact that you do recognize the hardships that gay people face means you are already aware that privilege exists, you simply refuse to acknowledge that that is what it refers to.

By definition, abscense of stigma IS part of being privileged.

Privilege - a special right, advantage, or *immunity* granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Being straight makes you immune to the stigma that gay people face. That makes you privileged. Nobody is telling you to be guilty for it, just recognize it, which you have already, but for some reason just don't want to call it what it is, privilege.

Immunity is being used in a technical legal sense, e.g. immunity to liability.

Feel free to prove this statement.

Definition of Immunity:

protection or exemption from something, especially an obligation or penalty.

Up until the 1960's or 1970's, homosexuality was punishable by law in the United States. Today, homosexuality is only recognized as a protected class in only 17 of 50 U.S. states. Some of the rest of those states have laws that allow discrimination based on sexual orientation, which disproportionately affects sexual minorities (gay, lesbian and bisexual individuals), which makes heterosexuals, who are the majority, virtually immune to the same stigma. Discrimination against heterosexuals, based on sexual orientation, is practically non-existent.

Being straight was punishable in most states too until recently. Very few states banned sodomy *only* for same-sex partners. Many states still have laws on the books that ban sex outside marriage or unmarried cohabitation.

Sexual orientation is a protected status in only 17 states. 33 states do not prevent discrimination on the basis of being straight.

What does all this go to show? That nothing you have said above is a special immunity granted to straight people.

Immunities are *specified.* I might make it illegal to jaywalk, but exempt cops. There will be a specific provision in the law that says cops are immune from this rule. However, if I make a law that applies only to businesses with 5 or more employees, I haven't really provided a special immunity to businesses with fewer than 5 employees. I've just defined the situation where the law applies.

Your situations (e.g. stigma of gay kissing) do not prove that straight people enjoy a special immunity from stigma. It's not like gay kissing is being banned, but straight people are provided an exception. It's more that straight kissing was always the norm and there was complete ignorance that homosexuality was anything other than a sexual aberration until the last 50 years or so.

I'm just saying, it makes far more sense to talk about eliminating stigma and changing societal norms that it does to *frame the issue* in terms of privilege and lack of privilege. Your framing is wrong, and stupid, and worthless, and adds nothing to the substantive discussion.

You're spending all this time on your privilege thread, when you'd be much better served by making direct arguments about why this stigma is wrong and bad, instead of begrudging straight people their lack of stigma, focus on the stigma itself and argue against it.

People either already agree with you, in which case arguing over silly semantics is pointless and a waste of time. Or they disagree with you on substance, e.g. whether being gay is genetic or immoral, and you should address the substance. Telling someone who already disagrees with you that they are just privilege @=holes isn't going to do anything.

tl;dr stop wasting time by trying to frame the issue in a way that is non-helpful
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)