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The Problem with Diplomacy

Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/24/2015 11:33:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Diplomacy is generally a good thing. It is often a good idea to be cordial, respectful, and unoffending. It helps give you a sense of authority and a general liking, which in turn, helps you be more persuasive.

However, my biggest problem with it is that it is fake. How can you trust someone's critique, when they are actively downplaying certain aspects to not offend? There is a place for diplomacy, and there is not. I think in interpersonal relations that are personal in nature, diplomacy is rarely helpful, yet often sought.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/24/2015 12:20:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/24/2015 11:58:52 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
War is merely one method of diplomacy.

I'm actually thinking more inter-personal relations, more than a foreign relations framework. I think I failed at that framing.
My work here is, finally, done.
Kozu
Posts: 381
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4/24/2015 2:52:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/24/2015 11:33:18 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
However, my biggest problem with it is that it is fake. How can you trust someone's critique, when they are actively downplaying certain aspects to not offend? There is a place for diplomacy, and there is not. I think in interpersonal relations that are personal in nature, diplomacy is rarely helpful, yet often sought.

But everyone has an agenda, how can they be honest?

I think interpersonal relations are a lot simpler than international ones, so they shouldn't be handled in the same way. I would also disagree with "diplomacy" within relationships being rarely helpful, its not all fake afterall, and good does come from it
Kaynes
Posts: 25
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4/24/2015 3:10:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I disagree.

I think it d"pends what your intentions are. Yes, if you want a full honest relations, diplomacy might not work for you, but being bluntly honest all the Time is Just plain stupid.

You have to know when to lie and when to present things in a better or quest light. The best way to achieve happiness and/or good results is not always through honesty. A little bit of diplomacy on your opinions about you friend's new girlfriend, that you find disgusting but will NOT say to your friend is a good example : sometimes it is better to be hide opinions that might be offensive to others instead of ruining a relationship/night/friendship with someone.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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4/24/2015 3:11:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The problem with Diplomacy is that it takes a really long time to play, and also that it's hard to find six other people who know how to play.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/24/2015 3:20:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/24/2015 3:11:01 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
The problem with Diplomacy is that it takes a really long time to play, and also that it's hard to find six other people who know how to play.

Oh, you....
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/24/2015 3:28:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/24/2015 3:10:09 PM, Kaynes wrote:
I disagree.

I think it d"pends what your intentions are. Yes, if you want a full honest relations, diplomacy might not work for you, but being bluntly honest all the Time is Just plain stupid.
Why is it stupid to answer a question honestly?
I'd say it is stupid for someone to say "answer honestly" when they don't want an honest answer.

You have to know when to lie and when to present things in a better or quest light. The best way to achieve happiness and/or good results is not always through honesty. A little bit of diplomacy on your opinions about you friend's new girlfriend, that you find disgusting but will NOT say to your friend is a good example : sometimes it is better to be hide opinions that might be offensive to others instead of ruining a relationship/night/friendship with someone.

I disagree.
I think the friend is stupid for letting my not liking his GF ruin his opinion of me.
What is worse: me being honest or constantly making excuses to not double date, which will lead to questions about "why you always busy?"?
My work here is, finally, done.
Kaynes
Posts: 25
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4/24/2015 4:09:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Because people are flawed. They are susceptible, petty and ignorant and you really cant expect them to be perfectly rational and accept your opinion simply because you had no il intentions.

If you cant accept that people might ask questions where they expect that you will say what they want to hear, then Hell, you cant be around a lot of people. Humans like the truth as much as a dog likes a beating.

There is no point in entering a pointless, fruitless arguments with your friends simply because you wanted to be honest. There is no point in alienating other people in a social context simply because you cant hide your contempt.

Being diplomat is simply using the optimal means to achieve your goals while keeping good relations, it is common sense. People are diplomat without knowing it. People who arent are considered rude and arrogant, and in diplomacy perception is a key : make that an asset
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/24/2015 4:23:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/24/2015 4:09:14 PM, Kaynes wrote:
Because people are flawed. They are susceptible, petty and ignorant and you really cant expect them to be perfectly rational and accept your opinion simply because you had no il intentions.

If you cant accept that people might ask questions where they expect that you will say what they want to hear, then Hell, you cant be around a lot of people. Humans like the truth as much as a dog likes a beating.

There is no point in entering a pointless, fruitless arguments with your friends simply because you wanted to be honest. There is no point in alienating other people in a social context simply because you cant hide your contempt.

Being diplomat is simply using the optimal means to achieve your goals while keeping good relations, it is common sense. People are diplomat without knowing it. People who arent are considered rude and arrogant, and in diplomacy perception is a key : make that an asset

Let me rephrase the framing of this thread:
Diplomacy is an issue when things are asked. It does no one service to be diplomatic when asked a point blank question.
How can I trust you if I know you will lie to me to spare my feelings? What good is your critique? What do I learn?
My work here is, finally, done.
Kaynes
Posts: 25
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4/24/2015 4:38:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well it depends what you ask, how you ask it and who I am in relations to you.

If we are vague colleagues and you ask me a question about your personal life, I might want to be prudent about it, as I really dont know what could be the repercussions of my answer.

If you are a very close friend who trust me dearly to be completely honest on a serious matter, i Will. Because i know you and we are intimate enough to confide in each others and know how to do it in the correct way.

If you Just ask me a random question that isnt serious but might vex you for no good reason, I might lie though
Kozu
Posts: 381
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4/24/2015 4:46:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/24/2015 4:23:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/24/2015 4:09:14 PM, Kaynes wrote:
Because people are flawed. They are susceptible, petty and ignorant and you really cant expect them to be perfectly rational and accept your opinion simply because you had no il intentions.

If you cant accept that people might ask questions where they expect that you will say what they want to hear, then Hell, you cant be around a lot of people. Humans like the truth as much as a dog likes a beating.

There is no point in entering a pointless, fruitless arguments with your friends simply because you wanted to be honest. There is no point in alienating other people in a social context simply because you cant hide your contempt.

Being diplomat is simply using the optimal means to achieve your goals while keeping good relations, it is common sense. People are diplomat without knowing it. People who arent are considered rude and arrogant, and in diplomacy perception is a key : make that an asset

Let me rephrase the framing of this thread:
Diplomacy is an issue when things are asked. It does no one service to be diplomatic when asked a point blank question.
How can I trust you if I know you will lie to me to spare my feelings? What good is your critique? What do I learn?

Doesn't sound like your talking about diplomacy, just white lies.
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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4/25/2015 7:50:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think it's more of a matter of degree.

Extreme diplomacy is of course undesirable.

'Fine words, an insinuating appearance, and excessive respect - Zuo Qiu Ming was ashamed of them. I also am ashamed of them. To conceal resentment against a person, and appear friendly with him - Zuo Qiu Ming was ashamed of such conduct. I also am ashamed of it.' (Analects 5.25)

That doesn't mean you should be blunt, however.

'They may speak without looking at the countenance of their superior - this is called blindness.' (Analects 16.6) (Not sure why Legge added 'of their superior' to the translation; there was no such phrase in the original text. I believe it applies to all sorts of conversations.)
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