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Redefining WASP

bsh1
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4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?
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Maikuru
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4/27/2015 9:55:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do people use the term WASP anymore? I don't think I've ever heard it outside of a sitcom, or at least never in a discussion on justice or discrimination.

As it stands, aside from urban, I would agree with each of the categories you listed.
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bsh1
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4/27/2015 10:01:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 9:55:05 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Do people use the term WASP anymore? I don't think I've ever heard it outside of a sitcom, or at least never in a discussion on justice or discrimination.

Thett mostly, lol. But I have heard others use it.

As it stands, aside from urban, I would agree with each of the categories you listed.

Okay.
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ESocialBookworm
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4/27/2015 10:12:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What is it??
Solonkr~
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I care about how to solve problems,
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ESocialBookworm
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4/27/2015 10:13:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh nvm
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

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bsh1
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4/27/2015 10:13:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:13:10 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
Oh nvm

Rofl...
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Maikuru
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4/27/2015 10:16:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm curious how much protestant is differentiated from other Christian sects these days. I wonder if WASC wouldn't suffice.
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PotBelliedGeek
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4/27/2015 10:17:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

The point of having terms like WASP and LGBTQ are not to classify people, they are for simplicity of expression. I can write a list of sexualities that are ALL marginalized, oppressed, and socially underprivileged. They are all deserving of the same attention and advocacy as those represented by the LGBTQ initialism. There comes a point, however, where adding them to the initialism ends up defeating the original purpose, making communication more clumsy and difficult. I generally use LGBTQ+ because of that. Same goes for WASP. Again, the point is to refer to the socially privileged groups easily, numerous as they are. Once you begin adding initials, the point is lost. Might as well just list them all.
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bsh1
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4/27/2015 10:21:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:17:54 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

The point of having terms like WASP and LGBTQ are not to classify people, they are for simplicity of expression. I can write a list of sexualities that are ALL marginalized, oppressed, and socially underprivileged. They are all deserving of the same attention and advocacy as those represented by the LGBTQ initialism. There comes a point, however, where adding them to the initialism ends up defeating the original purpose, making communication more clumsy and difficult. I generally use LGBTQ+ because of that. Same goes for WASP. Again, the point is to refer to the socially privileged groups easily, numerous as they are. Once you begin adding initials, the point is lost. Might as well just list them all.

Welcome back :)

I think you're right, and that this hits the nail on the head. However, if you were to attempt to create the perfect WASP acronym in that it was all-encompassing, would you agree with the expanded acronym given in the OP?
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PotBelliedGeek
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4/27/2015 10:25:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:21:32 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:17:54 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

The point of having terms like WASP and LGBTQ are not to classify people, they are for simplicity of expression. I can write a list of sexualities that are ALL marginalized, oppressed, and socially underprivileged. They are all deserving of the same attention and advocacy as those represented by the LGBTQ initialism. There comes a point, however, where adding them to the initialism ends up defeating the original purpose, making communication more clumsy and difficult. I generally use LGBTQ+ because of that. Same goes for WASP. Again, the point is to refer to the socially privileged groups easily, numerous as they are. Once you begin adding initials, the point is lost. Might as well just list them all.

Welcome back :)

Thank you :)


I think you're right, and that this hits the nail on the head. However, if you were to attempt to create the perfect WASP acronym in that it was all-encompassing, would you agree with the expanded acronym given in the OP?

I'd toss in parameters like having the "ideal weight" and "ideal age". Because ageism and fat shaming are things.
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bsh1
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4/27/2015 10:26:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:25:00 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:21:32 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I think you're right, and that this hits the nail on the head. However, if you were to attempt to create the perfect WASP acronym in that it was all-encompassing, would you agree with the expanded acronym given in the OP?

I'd toss in parameters like having the "ideal weight" and "ideal age". Because ageism and fat shaming are things.

Okay. I agree with that.
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thett3
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4/27/2015 10:26:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:16:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I'm curious how much protestant is differentiated from other Christian sects these days. I wonder if WASC wouldn't suffice.

There was still a small amount of dislike for Catholics when I was growing up, but that's mostly faded away by now as Protestantism is kinda fading. Most of the devout Christians I know are Catholics, and I'm ostensibly in the Bible belt.

The P part of WASP always meant Mainline protestant anyway, the evangelicalism that has overtaken most of the Protestantism in this country is the complete opposite of that...the old mainline churches are dying
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bsh1
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4/27/2015 10:26:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, like, WASPMCSEUWA?

The second "A" is for attractive.
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PotBelliedGeek
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4/27/2015 10:26:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:16:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I'm curious how much protestant is differentiated from other Christian sects these days. I wonder if WASC wouldn't suffice.

Nah, It is still largely protestant. Catholics, Mormons, and Orthodox Christians are still pulling up the short stick, though it isnt as short as it used to be.
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Khaos_Mage
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4/27/2015 10:27:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
(opens door, looks around, smiles)
Oh, hey, a discussion about privilege!!

(sees who's in the thread, tips hat, leaves)
My work here is, finally, done.
PotBelliedGeek
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4/27/2015 10:28:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:26:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, like, WASPMCSEUWA?

The second "A" is for attractive.

yeppers, thats all i can think of right now.
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PotBelliedGeek
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4/27/2015 10:29:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:27:03 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
(opens door, looks around, smiles)
Oh, hey, a discussion about privilege!!

(sees who's in the thread, tips hat, leaves)

aww come on! We have cookies.
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Khaos_Mage
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4/27/2015 10:29:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:29:18 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

aww come on! We have cookies.

Well hello stranger!!!
My work here is, finally, done.
PotBelliedGeek
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4/27/2015 10:30:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:29:47 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:29:18 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

aww come on! We have cookies.

Well hello stranger!!!

howdy doo!
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Khaos_Mage
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4/27/2015 10:30:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:16:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I'm curious how much protestant is differentiated from other Christian sects these days. I wonder if WASC wouldn't suffice.

Frankly, I don't see how any religious group is non-privileged, assuming the patron is white.
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YYW
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4/27/2015 10:33:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

I'm gay, and a WASP.
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bsh1
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4/27/2015 10:35:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:33:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

I'm gay, and a WASP.

My point is that gay people should not be included in the WASP category, because the implies a level of privilege we don't have. Hence, adding CS to eliminate the LGTBQAP group from the acronym.
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Khaos_Mage
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4/27/2015 10:38:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:35:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:33:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

I'm gay, and a WASP.

My point is that gay people should not be included in the WASP category, because the implies a level of privilege we don't have. Hence, adding CS to eliminate the LGTBQAP group from the acronym.

Or how about we acknowledge that the mantra of privilege is just another form of prejudice used to discriminate others, and stop using it?
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bsh1
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4/27/2015 10:38:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:38:25 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:35:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:33:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

I'm gay, and a WASP.

My point is that gay people should not be included in the WASP category, because the implies a level of privilege we don't have. Hence, adding CS to eliminate the LGTBQAP group from the acronym.

Or how about we acknowledge that the mantra of privilege is just another form of prejudice used to discriminate others, and stop using it?

I don't really agree with that...and the empirics don't either.
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PotBelliedGeek
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4/27/2015 10:42:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:35:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:33:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

I'm gay, and a WASP.

My point is that gay people should not be included in the WASP category, because the implies a level of privilege we don't have. Hence, adding CS to eliminate the LGTBQAP group from the acronym.

Well here we get into murky territory. I'd like to assert that there are no people in the world who are truly,, unquestionably privileged in every single aspect of their life. I am an attractive white american educated male. I have a lot of privilege in that regard. I am also Muslim, poor, fat, and suffer from PTSD, making me underprivileged in those areas. Privilege is not black and white, its not something you have or you do not have. some have way more than their fair share, and others have way less. But everyone has some of it, and I'd think that everyone has a part of their lives in which they lack at least a little bit of it.
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YYW
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4/27/2015 10:42:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:35:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:33:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/27/2015 9:48:33 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, thett and I were talking about this, and I think this is a super interesting topic. So, I want to put it to DDO.

Oftentimes, there is a lot of criticism over the expansion of the basic LGBT acronym. I believe TN05 made a thread about it sometime ago. For the record, I think LGBTQPA is about as far as it can reasonably be taken. But, what about the WASP acronym, which is arguably a converse of the LGTB one?

American society does not just privilege white, anglo-saxon protestants. It is also biased in favor of a variety of other groups. You could, conceivably, expand the acronym to WASPMCSEUW: WASP + male, cisgendered, straight, educated, urban, and wealthy. I think there is a good case both to leave and include the EUW portion of the acronym, but I definitely think the MCS should be incorporated.

WASPMCS(EUW) is not as catchy, but I think it's apt. What are your thoughts?

I'm gay, and a WASP.

My point is that gay people should not be included in the WASP category, because the implies a level of privilege we don't have. Hence, adding CS to eliminate the LGTBQAP group from the acronym.

I'm reluctant to make broad generalizations about what kinds of privilege non-heteronormative people have or don't have...

The WASP acronym doesn't really consider sexuality... although heterosexuality is subtly implied, the degree of privilege that gay people have varies profoundly from region to region of the country.

In the north east and on the left coast, it's not a big issue. In the mid west it can be an issue, and in the south it's a huge issue. It just depends...
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Khaos_Mage
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4/27/2015 10:43:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:38:58 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Or how about we acknowledge that the mantra of privilege is just another form of prejudice used to discriminate others, and stop using it?

I don't really agree with that...and the empirics don't either.

Yep, those WASP goth kids sure do fit right in with society. So, too, do the kids with plenty of ink and nose rings. They don't have problems with the law or finding employment.

Yes, there are benefactors to racism. I don't deny that.
But the concept of a "privileged" class is nothing more than creating divides based on generalizations - the very evil that caused the privilege in the first place.

Let me ask you this: What is the opposite of privilege?
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PotBelliedGeek
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4/27/2015 10:45:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:30:41 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:16:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I'm curious how much protestant is differentiated from other Christian sects these days. I wonder if WASC wouldn't suffice.

Frankly, I don't see how any religious group is non-privileged, assuming the patron is white.

I'd disagree with you there. Muslims are heavily underprivileged in this country, even the white ones.
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thett3
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4/27/2015 10:47:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
WASP has lost it's social definition to the point where the first three letters mean the same thing and the last letter could just be a C. There was a time, not too long ago, where certain ethnic groups within the white race itself were privileged. Certain Europeans were better than others in the public eye...hence the "Anglo-Saxon". And like I said to Maikuru, the "P" means more than just Protestant, it means what Protestantism used to mean, the old established churches.

It's not a matter of redefining WASP as it is creating a new word that sounds vaguely similar.
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Khaos_Mage
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4/27/2015 10:47:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/27/2015 10:45:03 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:30:41 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/27/2015 10:16:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I'm curious how much protestant is differentiated from other Christian sects these days. I wonder if WASC wouldn't suffice.

Frankly, I don't see how any religious group is non-privileged, assuming the patron is white.

I'd disagree with you there. Muslims are heavily underprivileged in this country, even the white ones.

How so?
And, again, it may well depend on where you are.

Why are Muslims any less privileged than any other person who is "not the norm" in society?
My work here is, finally, done.