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popculturepooka
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4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, today. I was listening to the ruminations that have become standard nowadays (even on this website) about supposed black pathologies and the problems with blacks and their culture in light of police officers killing unarmed black people left and right (standard victim-blaming tactics, but I digress). And then the riots that inevitably spring up in such a charged socio-economoically depressed, racism laden enviroments. Almost always it's a white person spouting these banalities.

Some will even go as far to start quoting MLK Jr. to give unmeasured condemnations of the rioting:

"But at the same time, it is as necessary for me to be as vigorous in condemning the conditions which cause persons to feel that they must engage in riotous activities as it is for me to condemn riots. I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention. "

Let's just not even get into the fact that MLK Jr. was one of the most hated figures of white America when he was alive.

The main thing I want to discuss is this: we've heard this all before. Every generation when there is some unrest involving race we have the majority of white Americans who outright deny that that the circumstances are unequitable due to race. They outright deny that systematic and instutionalized racism is a problem and instead will blame blacks for their (perceived) failures and defective culture. This happened during slavery times - we had whites arguing that black slaves didn't really have it that bad and that blacks actually LIKED be slaves. Black complaints of the horrors of slavery were largely ignored. Fast foward to 50 years ago during the civil rights era - the majority of whites believed then that black were essentially complaining too much about racism.

Check this image for evidence of that:

http://images.dailykos.com...

Obviously, today we know how wrong they were. We even chuckle at how wrong they were and wonder aloud "How could they not have seen right what was in front of their faces?" With the benefit of hindsight we now know the majority of white Americans of that era (and the eras before it) were utterly wrong. Now, I would be the first to say to day racism and discrimination isn't nearly as bad as it was then, but it's still there and it is still pervasive today in the form of institutionalized. Most white Americans today deny this. My question is: why - in this day and age, where we know that the majority of black americans (and other minorities) were right about the reality of racism in every generation and the majority of white americans were wrong about it's reality and pervasiveness in every generation - should we trust the majority of white Americans' judgement on this? There is a proven track record here of white America getting this issue consistently wrong. Why not think they are wrong today (just as int he past)? So why is the white American narrative who denies this reality narrative over the black (and other minorities') narrative who affirms this reality? Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Fly
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4/29/2015 12:47:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Good question. A comprehensive answer could fill a book. I would say that a large part of it is that most people consider themselves basically moral and fair, and being shown to harbor racist attitudes is a complete affront to that moral feeling-- it is considered a fundamental character flaw. Therefor, people will defend against the accusation of racism with every fiber of their being. And it is pretty easy to deny it-- if they do not experience it themselves, it isn't really happening to anyone else either.

Also, there are a growing number of very prominent black people who do not want to focus on the current presence of racism at all: Bill Cosby (well, before... you know), Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell...

And during a discussion on this very site, I was recently directed to this nifty article:

http://www.city-journal.org...

These figures validate what white people desperately want to believe: that racism is almost completely a thing of the past, and it is now high time for black people to get over it and get busy prospering.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Agent_Orange
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4/29/2015 12:53:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also just to add

"It is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard." " MLK, Jr.

Stop quote mining him. What MLK Jr did back in the day was illegal. So you same people that are going "WELL THE LAW IS THE LAW, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS FOLLOW THE LAW", maybe now you'll realize that no, you shouldn't just follow the fcking law.
#BlackLivesMatter
1harderthanyouthink
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4/29/2015 1:17:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
There is a proven track record here of white America getting this issue consistently wrong. Why not think they are wrong today (just as int he past)? So why is the white American narrative who denies this reality narrative over the black (and other minorities') narrative who affirms this reality? Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?

No, because fvcking 'Murica.

In case you haven't noticed, 'Muricans don't learn from their mistakes which are made in plain sight. Why? 'Murican values.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
dylancatlow
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4/29/2015 3:53:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
The trend has been one of moral advancement, which is a separate issue. You cite the fact that some Southerners argued slaves were better off as slaves, which would be a factual error. However, that was mainly used to appease the Northerners, whom they knew wouldn't accept their true justifications.

Back then the question was "is discrimination/slavery morally acceptable". We've moved beyond such questions. Now the question is "does institutionalized racism exist". It's more of a factual question than a moral one. So when you say "Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?", you're omitting the fact that back then no one denied that institutionalized racism existed. Back then people were flamboyantly racist; nowadays accusations of racism can easily end someone's career. That is a fundamental shift. Is it impossible that we've gotten so used to fighting institutionalized racism that we continue to see it even when it's not really there? If anything, I think we should be wary of how much history bears on current discussion, lest we be blinded by our legacy and continue to beat a horse that may, in fact, already be dead.
popculturepooka
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4/29/2015 9:45:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:53:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
The trend has been one of moral advancement, which is a separate issue. You cite the fact that some Southerners argued slaves were better off as slaves, which would be a factual error. However, that was mainly used to appease the Northerners, whom they knew wouldn't accept their true justifications.

Back then the question was "is discrimination/slavery morally acceptable". We've moved beyond such questions. Now the question is "does institutionalized racism exist". It's more of a factual question than a moral one. So when you say "Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?", you're omitting the fact that back then no one denied that institutionalized racism existed.

That's simply factually incorrect. Yes, they did. All the time. The majority of white people during the civil rights era essentially believed that white and black people had equal opportunity. That is a denial of institutionalized racism.

Back then people were flamboyantly racist; nowadays accusations of racism can easily end someone's career. That is a fundamental shift. Is it impossible that we've gotten so used to fighting institutionalized racism that we continue to see it even when it's not really there?

It's possible. But not likely. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt with the group of people who say that it exists because they have consistently been proven right and there is ample evidence today that it does exist.

If anything, I think we should be wary of how much history bears on current discussion, lest we be blinded by our legacy and continue to beat a horse that may, in fact, already be dead.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
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4/29/2015 9:51:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 12:47:36 AM, Fly wrote:
Good question. A comprehensive answer could fill a book. I would say that a large part of it is that most people consider themselves basically moral and fair, and being shown to harbor racist attitudes is a complete affront to that moral feeling-- it is considered a fundamental character flaw. Therefor, people will defend against the accusation of racism with every fiber of their being. And it is pretty easy to deny it-- if they do not experience it themselves, it isn't really happening to anyone else either.


I've come to that conclusion as well. When you're conditioned to believe that society is essentially fair, it's a shock to learn there are people who don't believe it is. Then that calls into question all the hard work you've done and no one ones to have their hard work "discredited".

Also, there are a growing number of very prominent black people who do not want to focus on the current presence of racism at all: Bill Cosby (well, before... you know), Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell...


Yup. And of course then people propounding that narrative can say "Hey, see, a black guy agrees with me!"

And during a discussion on this very site, I was recently directed to this nifty article:

http://www.city-journal.org...


Lol, wow. Which discussion was that.

These figures validate what white people desperately want to believe: that racism is almost completely a thing of the past, and it is now high time for black people to get over it and get busy prospering.

I've found to be this case a despairingly large amount of times when discussing this.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Fly
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4/29/2015 10:29:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 9:51:47 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:47:36 AM, Fly wrote:
Good question. A comprehensive answer could fill a book. I would say that a large part of it is that most people consider themselves basically moral and fair, and being shown to harbor racist attitudes is a complete affront to that moral feeling-- it is considered a fundamental character flaw. Therefor, people will defend against the accusation of racism with every fiber of their being. And it is pretty easy to deny it-- if they do not experience it themselves, it isn't really happening to anyone else either.


I've come to that conclusion as well. When you're conditioned to believe that society is essentially fair, it's a shock to learn there are people who don't believe it is. Then that calls into question all the hard work you've done and no one ones to have their hard work "discredited".

Also, there are a growing number of very prominent black people who do not want to focus on the current presence of racism at all: Bill Cosby (well, before... you know), Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell...


Yup. And of course then people propounding that narrative can say "Hey, see, a black guy agrees with me!"

And during a discussion on this very site, I was recently directed to this nifty article:

http://www.city-journal.org...


Lol, wow. Which discussion was that.

It was a thread that is now low on the page of this very forum and is about the Scott shooting. The poster I was debating insisted on employing slippery rhetoric, erecting strawmen, and ultimately I realized that he really wasn't interested in hearing about my views at all, so I bowed out of the thread which stalled soon thereafter...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
popculturepooka
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4/29/2015 12:04:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm actually surprised that so many of the people who have so much to say about black society all the time haven't posted in this thread yet.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
dylancatlow
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4/29/2015 12:58:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 9:45:24 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:53:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
The trend has been one of moral advancement, which is a separate issue. You cite the fact that some Southerners argued slaves were better off as slaves, which would be a factual error. However, that was mainly used to appease the Northerners, whom they knew wouldn't accept their true justifications.

Back then the question was "is discrimination/slavery morally acceptable". We've moved beyond such questions. Now the question is "does institutionalized racism exist". It's more of a factual question than a moral one. So when you say "Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?", you're omitting the fact that back then no one denied that institutionalized racism existed.

That's simply factually incorrect. Yes, they did. All the time. The majority of white people during the civil rights era essentially believed that white and black people had equal opportunity. That is a denial of institutionalized racism.

That's irrelevant, because everyone knew there was institutionalized segregation, which is institutionalized racism.

Back then people were flamboyantly racist; nowadays accusations of racism can easily end someone's career. That is a fundamental shift. Is it impossible that we've gotten so used to fighting institutionalized racism that we continue to see it even when it's not really there?

It's possible. But not likely. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt with the group of people who say that it exists because they have consistently been proven right and there is ample evidence today that it does exist.

If anything, I think we should be wary of how much history bears on current discussion, lest we be blinded by our legacy and continue to beat a horse that may, in fact, already be dead.
popculturepooka
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4/29/2015 2:56:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 12:58:38 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/29/2015 9:45:24 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:53:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
The trend has been one of moral advancement, which is a separate issue. You cite the fact that some Southerners argued slaves were better off as slaves, which would be a factual error. However, that was mainly used to appease the Northerners, whom they knew wouldn't accept their true justifications.

Back then the question was "is discrimination/slavery morally acceptable". We've moved beyond such questions. Now the question is "does institutionalized racism exist". It's more of a factual question than a moral one. So when you say "Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?", you're omitting the fact that back then no one denied that institutionalized racism existed.

That's simply factually incorrect. Yes, they did. All the time. The majority of white people during the civil rights era essentially believed that white and black people had equal opportunity. That is a denial of institutionalized racism.

That's irrelevant, because everyone knew there was institutionalized segregation, which is institutionalized racism.


But the majority saw nothing wrong with it so in that way they believed there wasn't instutionalized racism. They didn't see segregation as racist.

So, if you want to interpret my statement as the majority of white America denies the wrongness of institutionalized racism today it amounts to the same thing; white America has a bad - very bad - track record in this regard.

Back then people were flamboyantly racist; nowadays accusations of racism can easily end someone's career. That is a fundamental shift. Is it impossible that we've gotten so used to fighting institutionalized racism that we continue to see it even when it's not really there?

It's possible. But not likely. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt with the group of people who say that it exists because they have consistently been proven right and there is ample evidence today that it does exist.

If anything, I think we should be wary of how much history bears on current discussion, lest we be blinded by our legacy and continue to beat a horse that may, in fact, already be dead.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Welfare-Worker
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4/29/2015 3:53:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:56:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:58:38 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/29/2015 9:45:24 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:53:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
The trend has been one of moral advancement, which is a separate issue. You cite the fact that some Southerners argued slaves were better off as slaves, which would be a factual error. However, that was mainly used to appease the Northerners, whom they knew wouldn't accept their true justifications.

Back then the question was "is discrimination/slavery morally acceptable". We've moved beyond such questions. Now the question is "does institutionalized racism exist". It's more of a factual question than a moral one. So when you say "Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?", you're omitting the fact that back then no one denied that institutionalized racism existed.

That's simply factually incorrect. Yes, they did. All the time. The majority of white people during the civil rights era essentially believed that white and black people had equal opportunity. That is a denial of institutionalized racism.

That's irrelevant, because everyone knew there was institutionalized segregation, which is institutionalized racism.


But the majority saw nothing wrong with it so in that way they believed there wasn't instutionalized racism. They didn't see segregation as racist.

So, if you want to interpret my statement as the majority of white America denies the wrongness of institutionalized racism today it amounts to the same thing; white America has a bad - very bad - track record in this regard.

Back then people were flamboyantly racist; nowadays accusations of racism can easily end someone's career. That is a fundamental shift. Is it impossible that we've gotten so used to fighting institutionalized racism that we continue to see it even when it's not really there?

It's possible. But not likely. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt with the group of people who say that it exists because they have consistently been proven right and there is ample evidence today that it does exist.

If anything, I think we should be wary of how much history bears on current discussion, lest we be blinded by our legacy and continue to beat a horse that may, in fact, already be dead.
Can you explain what you mean by institutionalized racism, and give some examples.
Thanks.
Welfare-Worker
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4/29/2015 6:43:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:56:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

I found some sources that would probably be agreeable to you.
It is not as controversial as I thought it might be.

I had forgotten about Stokley Carmichael.
institutional racism results from the social caste system that sustained, and was sustained by, slavery and racial segregation. Although the laws that enforced this caste system are no longer in place, its basic structure still stands to this day. This structure may gradually fall apart on its own over a period of generations, but activism is necessary to expedite the process and provide for a more equitable society in the interim.
http://civilliberty.about.com...

Structural racism is a term that describes the way government and other public and private institutions systematically afford White people an array of social, political and economic advantages, simply because they are White, while marginalizing and putting at a disadvantage African Americans and many other people of color.
http://www.eraseracismny.org...

Civil Rights activists like John Lewis, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X talked about the institutional racism that affected the United States, not only in the southern states but throughout the country. President Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1965, which was designed to eliminate racism throughout the United States, but of course the federal government can accomplish only so much. Today you still find many examples of institutional racism. If you are black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, Middle Eastern descent -- anything other than white -- you probably experience institutional racism in some form.
http://freedom.answers.com...

So I see what you are saying.
popculturepooka
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4/30/2015 12:54:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:53:15 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:56:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:58:38 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/29/2015 9:45:24 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:53:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
The trend has been one of moral advancement, which is a separate issue. You cite the fact that some Southerners argued slaves were better off as slaves, which would be a factual error. However, that was mainly used to appease the Northerners, whom they knew wouldn't accept their true justifications.

Back then the question was "is discrimination/slavery morally acceptable". We've moved beyond such questions. Now the question is "does institutionalized racism exist". It's more of a factual question than a moral one. So when you say "Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?", you're omitting the fact that back then no one denied that institutionalized racism existed.

That's simply factually incorrect. Yes, they did. All the time. The majority of white people during the civil rights era essentially believed that white and black people had equal opportunity. That is a denial of institutionalized racism.

That's irrelevant, because everyone knew there was institutionalized segregation, which is institutionalized racism.


But the majority saw nothing wrong with it so in that way they believed there wasn't instutionalized racism. They didn't see segregation as racist.

So, if you want to interpret my statement as the majority of white America denies the wrongness of institutionalized racism today it amounts to the same thing; white America has a bad - very bad - track record in this regard.

Back then people were flamboyantly racist; nowadays accusations of racism can easily end someone's career. That is a fundamental shift. Is it impossible that we've gotten so used to fighting institutionalized racism that we continue to see it even when it's not really there?

It's possible. But not likely. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt with the group of people who say that it exists because they have consistently been proven right and there is ample evidence today that it does exist.

If anything, I think we should be wary of how much history bears on current discussion, lest we be blinded by our legacy and continue to beat a horse that may, in fact, already be dead.
Can you explain what you mean by institutionalized racism, and give some examples.
Thanks.

https://www.raceforward.org...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Skynet
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4/30/2015 10:45:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
So, today. I was listening to the ruminations that have become standard nowadays

I'm glad you brought this up. I'd like to point out that "white America" or any other group of people is made up of individuals that all act out of personal, individual motivations, and not some Borg collective thought process. As a member of "white America," I'll give you exclusive access to how my mind works on this issue.

This is how I think:

Why are you still lumping people into categories, "white" and "black"? Are there laws keeping the races segregated today? No. Why are we still segregated? There are still black parts of town everywhere. Cheap housing is available all over. Because people WANT to be segregated. Is that good? Not in this case. By both sides refusing to integrate, we have created rival subcultures. And this rivalry results in death and violence. This IS multiculturalism. Different cultures. Different values. Different ideas of right and wrong. There's a problem with that, and here's what it is: When all the neighbors do what you think is wrong, you move. To where people do what you agree with. There you go: Self segregation, as old as humanity. But the neighborhoods have borders, and where they meet, there is friction. And when both neighborhoods vote for people in the same government which makes laws that govern both neighborhoods who have different ideas of right and wrong, you get police trying to enforce a single moral code on both the neighborhood that agrees with it, and the one that doesn't. And that's how we got where we are today.

So what are we going to do? Have separate police and laws for different parts of town? What about issues that the two neighborhoods disagree with on the national level. That gets very problematic. Because everyone is under Federal Government.

So on an individual level, it is obvious we must integrate, or this will only get worse. We have a self-segregated subculture who is very ethno-oriented, and very isolated. And when people do that, they get paranoid, and they have a hard time understanding outsiders. There's no such thing as white solidarity among the white population at large, but there sure as the day as long such a thing as black solidarity. And black people generally don't understand that white people are not acting as a group. I know this, because when I tell them, it is always a novel concept to them. Tell them to give up their culture. Good luck with that, but maybe you'll have it. I can only speak for myself. I am willing to live with them, but we must come to an agreement as to social behavior, laws, morality, and they might have to give something up. Like isolation, ethno-centrism, adopt a common language, and give up on bitterness in exchange for opportunity, the building of trust, and common survival as a nation.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
AFism
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5/1/2015 11:03:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

My question is: why - in this day and age, where we know that the majority of black americans (and other minorities) were right about the reality of racism in every generation and the majority of white americans were wrong about it's reality and pervasiveness in every generation - should we trust the majority of white Americans' judgement on this? There is a proven track record here of white America getting this issue consistently wrong. Why not think they are wrong today (just as int he past)? So why is the white American narrative who denies this reality narrative over the black (and other minorities') narrative who affirms this reality? Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?

Ya know, I think you are asking the wrong questions. it is evident why everyone wants to believe the white democratic's rhetoric about racism and how it doesn't exist, especially for people of color because they don't want it to exist. Its almost like PTSD in a way. You live in a food desert, a war-zone, where at any moment you could get shot by the police, or someone who looks like you for no reason because of who you are and where you are. When you leave your bubble of hell you automatically are alienated in some shape or form, whether it is in the form of not being granted enough space on the sidewalk, being followed around a store, or racially profiled pated down/ pulled over for petty reasons.

So I can see why one would want to wrap themselves up in a bubble of fantasy, live in the suburbs where the white people talk behind their back and preach democracy and pulling yourself up by your bootsraps because they don't want to be the next Eric or their son to be the next Michael or Freddie, they want to spout the democratic rhetoric to "save" themselves from looking too militant so they can survive. It is a part of adaptation. So of course people are going to jump on that bandwagon. Only true fools are stupid enough to delude themselves into thinking that there is no racism by one of two ways, Cognitive dissonance and disassociation or the fact that they haven't experienced it before. And you see where white and black people fall in those categories. What questions you need to be asking is when are more people going to stop using this tired rhetoric and language and start calling America for what it is Fascist and White Supremacist, Capitalist, Patriarchal and Racist? America was not made for anyone that isn't a white heterosexual cis-gendered, rich man. And proof is in the amendments and all of the policy added onto the basis of our governance, the constitution. When are people going to start standing up and point out the REAL domestic terrorist? The First Domestic Terrorist? Hello ku klux klan mentality. Wake up, the people in power don't want you here, unless you are making them money. Lastly, how the hell are we going to solve this issue in the first place? Black Americans do not have a home country, we are naturally born here, not Africa. We already tried pan africanism and the back to Africa movement. When people moved to Sierra Leone they didn't thrive. I predict that it is going to come down to a "take America back movement". Seems like the only logical explanation. Black people originate from America. Their ancestors built America on their backs and they have claim to the land.

People will delude themselves into trusting the majority and those who are in power, and vote against their interest for a perceived safety. Police themselves, and believe that they are not worthy of questioning those who are in power, and believe all of the propaganda their rulers spout. (hello fascism). I propose that the first steps anyone should take is to change the rhetoric and language that is being feed to everyone by creating a buzz, a movement and go from there. Hashtags and hoodies aren't enough.
Skynet
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5/4/2015 9:40:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 11:03:03 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

My question is: why - in this day and age, where we know that the majority of black americans (and other minorities) were right about the reality of racism in every generation and the majority of white americans were wrong about it's reality and pervasiveness in every generation - should we trust the majority of white Americans' judgement on this? There is a proven track record here of white America getting this issue consistently wrong. Why not think they are wrong today (just as int he past)? So why is the white American narrative who denies this reality narrative over the black (and other minorities') narrative who affirms this reality? Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?

Ya know, I think you are asking the wrong questions. it is evident why everyone wants to believe the white democratic's rhetoric about racism and how it doesn't exist, especially for people of color because they don't want it to exist. Its almost like PTSD in a way. You live in a food desert, a war-zone, where at any moment you could get shot by the police, or someone who looks like you for no reason because of who you are and where you are. When you leave your bubble of hell you automatically are alienated in some shape or form, whether it is in the form of not being granted enough space on the sidewalk, being followed around a store, or racially profiled pated down/ pulled over for petty reasons.

So I can see why one would want to wrap themselves up in a bubble of fantasy, live in the suburbs where the white people talk behind their back and preach democracy and pulling yourself up by your bootsraps because they don't want to be the next Eric or their son to be the next Michael or Freddie, they want to spout the democratic rhetoric to "save" themselves from looking too militant so they can survive. It is a part of adaptation. So of course people are going to jump on that bandwagon. Only true fools are stupid enough to delude themselves into thinking that there is no racism by one of two ways, Cognitive dissonance and disassociation or the fact that they haven't experienced it before. And you see where white and black people fall in those categories. What questions you need to be asking is when are more people going to stop using this tired rhetoric and language and start calling America for what it is Fascist and White Supremacist, Capitalist, Patriarchal and Racist? America was not made for anyone that isn't a white heterosexual cis-gendered, rich man. And proof is in the amendments and all of the policy added onto the basis of our governance, the constitution. When are people going to start standing up and point out the REAL domestic terrorist? The First Domestic Terrorist? Hello ku klux klan mentality. Wake up, the people in power don't want you here, unless you are making them money. Lastly, how the hell are we going to solve this issue in the first place? Black Americans do not have a home country, we are naturally born here, not Africa. We already tried pan africanism and the back to Africa movement. When people moved to Sierra Leone they didn't thrive. I predict that it is going to come down to a "take America back movement". Seems like the only logical explanation. Black people originate from America. Their ancestors built America on their backs and they have claim to the land.

People will delude themselves into trusting the majority and those who are in power, and vote against their interest for a perceived safety. Police themselves, and believe that they are not worthy of questioning those who are in power, and believe all of the propaganda their rulers spout. (hello fascism). I propose that the first steps anyone should take is to change the rhetoric and language that is being feed to everyone by creating a buzz, a movement and go from there. Hashtags and hoodies aren't enough.

Slaves didn't build the country, just big agriculture in the South. The industrialized North traded with the South, but we built industry ourselves. We also built forestry, maritime industries, fishing, agriculture, and everything else without slavery. So claim what your ancestors did build, but don't steal from those who built their own.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
AFism
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5/6/2015 7:37:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/4/2015 9:40:40 PM, Skynet wrote:
At 5/1/2015 11:03:03 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

My question is: why - in this day and age, where we know that the majority of black americans (and other minorities) were right about the reality of racism in every generation and the majority of white americans were wrong about it's reality and pervasiveness in every generation - should we trust the majority of white Americans' judgement on this? There is a proven track record here of white America getting this issue consistently wrong. Why not think they are wrong today (just as int he past)? So why is the white American narrative who denies this reality narrative over the black (and other minorities') narrative who affirms this reality? Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?

Ya know, I think you are asking the wrong questions. it is evident why everyone wants to believe the white democratic's rhetoric about racism and how it doesn't exist, especially for people of color because they don't want it to exist. Its almost like PTSD in a way. You live in a food desert, a war-zone, where at any moment you could get shot by the police, or someone who looks like you for no reason because of who you are and where you are. When you leave your bubble of hell you automatically are alienated in some shape or form, whether it is in the form of not being granted enough space on the sidewalk, being followed around a store, or racially profiled pated down/ pulled over for petty reasons.

So I can see why one would want to wrap themselves up in a bubble of fantasy, live in the suburbs where the white people talk behind their back and preach democracy and pulling yourself up by your bootsraps because they don't want to be the next Eric or their son to be the next Michael or Freddie, they want to spout the democratic rhetoric to "save" themselves from looking too militant so they can survive. It is a part of adaptation. So of course people are going to jump on that bandwagon. Only true fools are stupid enough to delude themselves into thinking that there is no racism by one of two ways, Cognitive dissonance and disassociation or the fact that they haven't experienced it before. And you see where white and black people fall in those categories. What questions you need to be asking is when are more people going to stop using this tired rhetoric and language and start calling America for what it is Fascist and White Supremacist, Capitalist, Patriarchal and Racist? America was not made for anyone that isn't a white heterosexual cis-gendered, rich man. And proof is in the amendments and all of the policy added onto the basis of our governance, the constitution. When are people going to start standing up and point out the REAL domestic terrorist? The First Domestic Terrorist? Hello ku klux klan mentality. Wake up, the people in power don't want you here, unless you are making them money. Lastly, how the hell are we going to solve this issue in the first place? Black Americans do not have a home country, we are naturally born here, not Africa. We already tried pan africanism and the back to Africa movement. When people moved to Sierra Leone they didn't thrive. I predict that it is going to come down to a "take America back movement". Seems like the only logical explanation. Black people originate from America. Their ancestors built America on their backs and they have claim to the land.

People will delude themselves into trusting the majority and those who are in power, and vote against their interest for a perceived safety. Police themselves, and believe that they are not worthy of questioning those who are in power, and believe all of the propaganda their rulers spout. (hello fascism). I propose that the first steps anyone should take is to change the rhetoric and language that is being feed to everyone by creating a buzz, a movement and go from there. Hashtags and hoodies aren't enough.

Slaves didn't build the country, just big agriculture in the South. The industrialized North traded with the South, but we built industry ourselves. We also built forestry, maritime industries, fishing, agriculture, and everything else without slavery. So claim what your ancestors did build, but don't steal from those who built their own.

I'm sorry but half of the patents that got you in the industrial revolution in the first place were inventions stolen by black people. Even with out that point you would have never gotten to the point of industrialization without all of the money and stimulus slavery brought for this country. Slavery established this country, and when industrialization came, cheap labor, from former slaves, continued to establish this country. The country started with slavery in the south so to separate the two is illogical. And how can you build forestry, fishing, agriculture, and the industry with out the building blocks that the native people and slavery has brought for you: COUGH COUGH native americans and fishing and growing crops AND many former slave masters stealing patents, inventions, and being the main factory workers.

But you know what ever I dont feel like arguing today
TN05
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5/6/2015 7:46:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sorry, but I can't take allegations of racism seriously from someone who essentially says 'disregard white people, because black people are better".
feverish
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5/7/2015 9:13:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/6/2015 7:46:41 PM, TN05 wrote:
Sorry, but I can't take allegations of racism seriously from someone who essentially says 'disregard white people, because black people are better".

What are you talking about?

Who said that and where? I certainly don't see it in this thread.
Ore_Ele
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5/7/2015 9:39:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
When we will realize that so much of this is blown out of proportion? Ferguson wasn't race based, but "activists" wanted to push it as if it was. Baltimore wasn't racist, but "activists" are wanting to push it as if it was.

It is posts like the OP that are trying to engaging in racism and race shaming that make me sad for our future. When something bad happens, they jump up and down saying it has to be whites being racist against blacks.

Baltimore is the perfect example that shows that the issue is not racist white police officers and their racist system. The Baltimore Mayor and Police Chief are black as is half of the freaking police department.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

The six officers that killed Freddie? Yeah, three of them are black.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The issue is not race at all. It is that 1/3 of the adults in the area do not even have a high school education and can't figure anything out. You have poor, ignorant people. But because they are victims, you are not allowed to say they are wrong or you are accused of "victim blaming."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
TN05
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5/7/2015 11:24:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 9:39:41 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
When we will realize that so much of this is blown out of proportion? Ferguson wasn't race based, but "activists" wanted to push it as if it was. Baltimore wasn't racist, but "activists" are wanting to push it as if it was.

It is posts like the OP that are trying to engaging in racism and race shaming that make me sad for our future. When something bad happens, they jump up and down saying it has to be whites being racist against blacks.

Baltimore is the perfect example that shows that the issue is not racist white police officers and their racist system. The Baltimore Mayor and Police Chief are black as is half of the freaking police department.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

The six officers that killed Freddie? Yeah, three of them are black.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The issue is not race at all. It is that 1/3 of the adults in the area do not even have a high school education and can't figure anything out. You have poor, ignorant people. But because they are victims, you are not allowed to say they are wrong or you are accused of "victim blaming."

Bingo.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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5/7/2015 6:49:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 9:39:41 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
When we will realize that so much of this is blown out of proportion? Ferguson wasn't race based, but "activists" wanted to push it as if it was. Baltimore wasn't racist, but "activists" are wanting to push it as if it was.

It is posts like the OP that are trying to engaging in racism and race shaming that make me sad for our future. When something bad happens, they jump up and down saying it has to be whites being racist against blacks.

Baltimore is the perfect example that shows that the issue is not racist white police officers and their racist system. The Baltimore Mayor and Police Chief are black as is half of the freaking police department.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

The six officers that killed Freddie? Yeah, three of them are black.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The issue is not race at all. It is that 1/3 of the adults in the area do not even have a high school education and can't figure anything out. You have poor, ignorant people. But because they are victims, you are not allowed to say they are wrong or you are accused of "victim blaming."

I agree that education level and socioeconomic status are highly relevant factors. So is race. Not only is race related to both of those previous factors (when controlling for the other and additional factors), but it also has an impact on criminal justice decisions when controlling for both.

Concerning the race of the mayor, police chief, and some of the offending officers, a few things. One, Blacks can also be racist against Blacks. Two, all of those individuals occupy positions of authority. This is where the intersection of race, SES, and other societal factors comes into play.
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Maikuru
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5/7/2015 7:53:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 6:49:58 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 5/7/2015 9:39:41 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
When we will realize that so much of this is blown out of proportion? Ferguson wasn't race based, but "activists" wanted to push it as if it was. Baltimore wasn't racist, but "activists" are wanting to push it as if it was.

It is posts like the OP that are trying to engaging in racism and race shaming that make me sad for our future. When something bad happens, they jump up and down saying it has to be whites being racist against blacks.

Baltimore is the perfect example that shows that the issue is not racist white police officers and their racist system. The Baltimore Mayor and Police Chief are black as is half of the freaking police department.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

The six officers that killed Freddie? Yeah, three of them are black.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The issue is not race at all. It is that 1/3 of the adults in the area do not even have a high school education and can't figure anything out. You have poor, ignorant people. But because they are victims, you are not allowed to say they are wrong or you are accused of "victim blaming."

I agree that education level and socioeconomic status are highly relevant factors. So is race. Not only is race related to both of those previous factors (when controlling for the other and additional factors), but it also has an impact on criminal justice decisions when controlling for both.

Concerning the race of the mayor, police chief, and some of the offending officers, a few things. One, Blacks can also be racist against Blacks. Two, all of those individuals occupy positions of authority. This is where the intersection of race, SES, and other societal factors comes into play.

I should clarify. I'm not saying the mayor, police chief, and offending officers are necessarily racist. I'm saying that claiming race is not an issue because some of the people in authority are also Black is faulty reasoning.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Skynet
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5/7/2015 8:22:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/6/2015 7:37:11 PM, AFism wrote:
At 5/4/2015 9:40:40 PM, Skynet wrote:
At 5/1/2015 11:03:03 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

My question is: why - in this day and age, where we know that the majority of black americans (and other minorities) were right about the reality of racism in every generation and the majority of white americans were wrong about it's reality and pervasiveness in every generation - should we trust the majority of white Americans' judgement on this? There is a proven track record here of white America getting this issue consistently wrong. Why not think they are wrong today (just as int he past)? So why is the white American narrative who denies this reality narrative over the black (and other minorities') narrative who affirms this reality? Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?

Ya know, I think you are asking the wrong questions. it is evident why everyone wants to believe the white democratic's rhetoric about racism and how it doesn't exist, especially for people of color because they don't want it to exist. Its almost like PTSD in a way. You live in a food desert, a war-zone, where at any moment you could get shot by the police, or someone who looks like you for no reason because of who you are and where you are. When you leave your bubble of hell you automatically are alienated in some shape or form, whether it is in the form of not being granted enough space on the sidewalk, being followed around a store, or racially profiled pated down/ pulled over for petty reasons.

So I can see why one would want to wrap themselves up in a bubble of fantasy, live in the suburbs where the white people talk behind their back and preach democracy and pulling yourself up by your bootsraps because they don't want to be the next Eric or their son to be the next Michael or Freddie, they want to spout the democratic rhetoric to "save" themselves from looking too militant so they can survive. It is a part of adaptation. So of course people are going to jump on that bandwagon. Only true fools are stupid enough to delude themselves into thinking that there is no racism by one of two ways, Cognitive dissonance and disassociation or the fact that they haven't experienced it before. And you see where white and black people fall in those categories. What questions you need to be asking is when are more people going to stop using this tired rhetoric and language and start calling America for what it is Fascist and White Supremacist, Capitalist, Patriarchal and Racist? America was not made for anyone that isn't a white heterosexual cis-gendered, rich man. And proof is in the amendments and all of the policy added onto the basis of our governance, the constitution. When are people going to start standing up and point out the REAL domestic terrorist? The First Domestic Terrorist? Hello ku klux klan mentality. Wake up, the people in power don't want you here, unless you are making them money. Lastly, how the hell are we going to solve this issue in the first place? Black Americans do not have a home country, we are naturally born here, not Africa. We already tried pan africanism and the back to Africa movement. When people moved to Sierra Leone they didn't thrive. I predict that it is going to come down to a "take America back movement". Seems like the only logical explanation. Black people originate from America. Their ancestors built America on their backs and they have claim to the land.

People will delude themselves into trusting the majority and those who are in power, and vote against their interest for a perceived safety. Police themselves, and believe that they are not worthy of questioning those who are in power, and believe all of the propaganda their rulers spout. (hello fascism). I propose that the first steps anyone should take is to change the rhetoric and language that is being feed to everyone by creating a buzz, a movement and go from there. Hashtags and hoodies aren't enough.

Slaves didn't build the country, just big agriculture in the South. The industrialized North traded with the South, but we built industry ourselves. We also built forestry, maritime industries, fishing, agriculture, and everything else without slavery. So claim what your ancestors did build, but don't steal from those who built their own.

I'm sorry but half of the patents that got you in the industrial revolution in the first place were inventions stolen by black people. Even with out that point you would have never gotten to the point of industrialization without all of the money and stimulus slavery brought for this country. Slavery established this country, and when industrialization came, cheap labor, from former slaves, continued to establish this country. The country started with slavery in the south so to separate the two is illogical. And how can you build forestry, fishing, agriculture, and the industry with out the building blocks that the native people and slavery has brought for you: COUGH COUGH native americans and fishing and growing crops AND many former slave masters stealing patents, inventions, and being the main factory workers.

But you know what ever I dont feel like arguing today

HALF? That seems high. You know what this is all about? People who don't work think that the people who do work and get ahead must have taken it from them. Or even people who do work and are greedy for other people's stuff. All this high and mighty racial justice is baloney: You just want to take things from other people without honestly working for it. That's why it always comes down to getting reparations or land, or the entire country. It's always about getting rich off someone else. And If it were one guy against another, the details would be clear, and you could take it to court. But to make sure the issue is obscured, you say "[all] white people did this to us." That way a crime of a few can be blamed on an entire group. Conveniently for the accusers, the wealthiest overall group. If a white guy gets mugged by a black guy, can he rightly say "[all] black people have stolen from me?" But I'm pretty sure that's immaterial, because it won't get you to your goal of smearing people based on race and stealing their stuff.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
AFism
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5/7/2015 9:17:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
People will delude themselves into trusting the majority and those who are in power, and vote against their interest for a perceived safety. Police themselves, and believe that they are not worthy of questioning those who are in power, and believe all of the propaganda their rulers spout. (hello fascism). I propose that the first steps anyone should take is to change the rhetoric and language that is being feed to everyone by creating a buzz, a movement and go from there. Hashtags and hoodies aren't enough.

Slaves didn't build the country, just big agriculture in the South. The industrialized North traded with the South, but we built industry ourselves. We also built forestry, maritime industries, fishing, agriculture, and everything else without slavery. So claim what your ancestors did build, but don't steal from those who built their own.

I'm sorry but half of the patents that got you in the industrial revolution in the first place were inventions stolen by black people. Even with out that point you would have never gotten to the point of industrialization without all of the money and stimulus slavery brought for this country. Slavery established this country, and when industrialization came, cheap labor, from former slaves, continued to establish this country. The country started with slavery in the south so to separate the two is illogical. And how can you build forestry, fishing, agriculture, and the industry with out the building blocks that the native people and slavery has brought for you: COUGH COUGH native americans and fishing and growing crops AND many former slave masters stealing patents, inventions, and being the main factory workers.

But you know what ever I dont feel like arguing today

HALF? That seems high.

Do your research and stop with your pseudo psychology please.

You know what this is all about? People who don't work think that the people who do work and get ahead must have taken it from them. Or even people who do work and are greedy for other people's stuff. All this high and mighty racial justice is baloney: You just want to take things from other people without honestly working for it. That's why it always comes down to getting reparations or land, or the entire country. It's always about getting rich off someone else. And If it were one guy against another, the details would be clear, and you could take it to court. But to make sure the issue is obscured, you say "[all] white people did this to us." That way a crime of a few can be blamed on an entire group. Conveniently for the accusers, the wealthiest overall group. If a white guy gets mugged by a black guy, can he rightly say "[all] black people have stolen from me?" But I'm pretty sure that's immaterial, because it won't get you to your goal of smearing people based on race and stealing their stuff.

Okay I find your post hilarious. Minorities have no other choice but to work in America so your whole, trying to get rich off the white race argument is invalid. This system wasn't built for us to "get rich off of you" which is why the unemployment and poverty rates for black people are so high. Secondly stop trying to disconnect yourself from what your ancestors did. No one said "all white people" and that isn't even the point. Your ancestors put black peoples ancestors in slavery, and int urn put the descendants of the slave masters or WHITE PEOPLE at an advantage in the society that was made for them. Lastly the reason is similar to that of the holocaust. You put a whole people at an disadvantage, slaughtered their families lines, raped their women, burned their children at the pikes. Giving reparations is a way of formally recognizing that what your forefathers did in this country was wrong. No one is asking you personally to come out of your pocket. The former policy makers made slavery legally so OBVIOUSLY the federal government is responsible. You are getting a little to defensive for no reason. These are also rudimentary concepts. You do something wrong, like genocide of a people, (you know around 10 million) you write a formal apology and give reparations. It is simple. You are making it out to be something deeper, when its not.
And by the way, the strong racial stereotype attached to black people is that they are thieves, so yes, when it is put on the news that a black person stole a car, that only heightens the though that all black people steal, especially in America. Here is a passage to help you understand your logic because I clearly see where this is going:

Why are you feeling like you need to defend white people? I am being completely serious with that question. When a person of color talks about something that is being done/has been done to oppress them and uses the words "White people," why do you feel the need to say "Not all white people?" We know. Do you think we don"t know? Lets say you DO think we don"t know, now what? You"ve said that its not "all of you". Okay but the experience the person had, the feelings the person is feeling, are they not valid now that you announced that not all white people do it and IMMEDIATELY start to talk about YOU?

Oh you didn"t think we noticed that did you? You see this is the REAL problem with "Not all white people" you are saying "NOT ME" and not only do I want to point out "NOT ME" but I want praise for it "NOT BEING ME." I will give you proof that "NOT ME" and I will derail the entire conversation, entire argument, the entire point of your post to tell you how not racist I am. If you don"t back up and STOP YOUR ORIGINAL DISCUSSION to tell me that you know that "NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE" then I will be an upset and highly offended white person. Then, likely call racism.

Which leads to the second problem. You being offended that someone doesn"t stop to re-step with "Not all white people" is not MORE offensive than the oppressive conversation. It is not about you. Stop making it about you. Your feelings are hurt because someone is talking about oppression and you want to STOP THEM FROM TALKING to remind them that "Not you?"

This is not about you specifically. Stop making it about you.

Something tells me that my words are to intricate for some of you to understand. I am going to explain this in the simplest way I can.

White person says about black people- "Black people are lazy" <<Racist. Even if you clarify your statement and say "Not all black people." It"s racist and the clarification makes no difference.

Black person says- "White people are oppressive." <<Not racist. A statement of fact. The generalization is the same. As in, if said black person were MADE to clarify with "Not all white people" it makes no difference. Also, it does two other things: 1-Interrupts the conversation to make it about YOU and not the oppressed. 2-Makes the conversation about oppression LESS IMPORTANT than your NEED for people to know "Not you."

Your ally cry is anti-ally.

I hate when people compare one group"s struggle to another group so I am going to make this more personal. Because I have had this exact conversation in real life, I am going to give you one last example of what you are doing when you stop the conversation to say "Not all white people."

Me: Someone driving a blue Toyota just hit and killed my four year old child.

You: I drive a blue Toyota. Not everyone who drives a blue Toyota hits four year old children.

I am just gonna leave that here for you to digest."

TL:DR? you should read it because you are clearly confused. This isn't JUST about money.
Ore_Ele
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5/8/2015 9:29:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 7:53:24 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 5/7/2015 6:49:58 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 5/7/2015 9:39:41 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
When we will realize that so much of this is blown out of proportion? Ferguson wasn't race based, but "activists" wanted to push it as if it was. Baltimore wasn't racist, but "activists" are wanting to push it as if it was.

It is posts like the OP that are trying to engaging in racism and race shaming that make me sad for our future. When something bad happens, they jump up and down saying it has to be whites being racist against blacks.

Baltimore is the perfect example that shows that the issue is not racist white police officers and their racist system. The Baltimore Mayor and Police Chief are black as is half of the freaking police department.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

The six officers that killed Freddie? Yeah, three of them are black.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The issue is not race at all. It is that 1/3 of the adults in the area do not even have a high school education and can't figure anything out. You have poor, ignorant people. But because they are victims, you are not allowed to say they are wrong or you are accused of "victim blaming."

I agree that education level and socioeconomic status are highly relevant factors. So is race. Not only is race related to both of those previous factors (when controlling for the other and additional factors), but it also has an impact on criminal justice decisions when controlling for both.

Concerning the race of the mayor, police chief, and some of the offending officers, a few things. One, Blacks can also be racist against Blacks. Two, all of those individuals occupy positions of authority. This is where the intersection of race, SES, and other societal factors comes into play.

I should clarify. I'm not saying the mayor, police chief, and offending officers are necessarily racist. I'm saying that claiming race is not an issue because some of the people in authority are also Black is faulty reasoning.

It's not perfect reasoning but it is better than the "a white cop killed a black man, ergo racism!" It is merely reasoning enough to counter the limited arguments already presented.

Now if there were audio from inside the van (or of these officers in general) saying things like "why can't all these freaking monkeys just kill each other off?" or something that is more clearly racist, then yes, you need more to refute that.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Df0512
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5/8/2015 10:45:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 12:09:17 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
So, today. I was listening to the ruminations that have become standard nowadays (even on this website) about supposed black pathologies and the problems with blacks and their culture in light of police officers killing unarmed black people left and right (standard victim-blaming tactics, but I digress). And then the riots that inevitably spring up in such a charged socio-economoically depressed, racism laden enviroments. Almost always it's a white person spouting these banalities.

Some will even go as far to start quoting MLK Jr. to give unmeasured condemnations of the rioting:

"But at the same time, it is as necessary for me to be as vigorous in condemning the conditions which cause persons to feel that they must engage in riotous activities as it is for me to condemn riots. I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention. "

Let's just not even get into the fact that MLK Jr. was one of the most hated figures of white America when he was alive.

The main thing I want to discuss is this: we've heard this all before. Every generation when there is some unrest involving race we have the majority of white Americans who outright deny that that the circumstances are unequitable due to race. They outright deny that systematic and instutionalized racism is a problem and instead will blame blacks for their (perceived) failures and defective culture. This happened during slavery times - we had whites arguing that black slaves didn't really have it that bad and that blacks actually LIKED be slaves. Black complaints of the horrors of slavery were largely ignored. Fast foward to 50 years ago during the civil rights era - the majority of whites believed then that black were essentially complaining too much about racism.

Check this image for evidence of that:

http://images.dailykos.com...

Obviously, today we know how wrong they were. We even chuckle at how wrong they were and wonder aloud "How could they not have seen right what was in front of their faces?" With the benefit of hindsight we now know the majority of white Americans of that era (and the eras before it) were utterly wrong. Now, I would be the first to say to day racism and discrimination isn't nearly as bad as it was then, but it's still there and it is still pervasive today in the form of institutionalized. Most white Americans today deny this. My question is: why - in this day and age, where we know that the majority of black americans (and other minorities) were right about the reality of racism in every generation and the majority of white americans were wrong about it's reality and pervasiveness in every generation - should we trust the majority of white Americans' judgement on this? There is a proven track record here of white America getting this issue consistently wrong. Why not think they are wrong today (just as int he past)? So why is the white American narrative who denies this reality narrative over the black (and other minorities') narrative who affirms this reality? Should we not give MUCH more weight to the narrative that affirms systematic, institutionalized racism when it has consistently been proven to be correct?

I think it's kind of a moot point. White people will never collectively share this opinion. Besides black people don't trust white peoples judgment on this. We know whats going on because will deal with it. White people, at least to my knowledge, don't have struggles they can relate with black people on. I mean whats the white equivalent to the N word? I don't think there is. Maybe it's because there we really aren't talking about blatant acts of racism like back in the old days. Now we have more institutionalized racism. Like the kind in police stations and fraternities.
Maikuru
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5/8/2015 11:57:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Some cops exposed for their racist texts.

http://www.buzzfeed.com...

A highlight: "Get ur pocket gun. Keep it available in case the monkey returns to his roots. Its not against the law to put an animal down."
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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