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The smartest race

janesix
Posts: 3,466
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5/3/2015 6:26:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ashkenazi Jews 115
East Asians 106
Whites 100
Hispanics 86
Blacks 85
Subsaharan Africans 70

Do you believe that IQ tests are accurate, and that race really differs that much in intelligence? If so, why the discrepancy?
DarthSauron
Posts: 1
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5/3/2015 10:57:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is no such thing as "the smartest race" unless you are talking about the human race in general; it is the smartest. But as you are talking about cultural groups, they are not genetically varied enough to be considered different species, therefore, they are all humans, and all have the same capabilities. The difference in their IQ is due to the level of education in the region that they live, it doesn't mean they aren't smarter.
-DarthSauron
difference
Posts: 177
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5/3/2015 1:14:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 10:57:46 AM, DarthSauron wrote:
There is no such thing as "the smartest race" unless you are talking about the human race in general; it is the smartest. But as you are talking about cultural groups, they are not genetically varied enough to be considered different species, therefore, they are all humans, and all have the same capabilities. The difference in their IQ is due to the level of education in the region that they live, it doesn't mean they aren't smarter.

You'd measure smartness by capabilities then? Could I say that I am as smart as someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson or Evangelos Katsioulis?
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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5/5/2015 4:07:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 10:57:46 AM, DarthSauron wrote:
There is no such thing as "the smartest race" unless you are talking about the human race in general; it is the smartest. But as you are talking about cultural groups, they are not genetically varied enough to be considered different species, therefore, they are all humans, and all have the same capabilities. The difference in their IQ is due to the level of education in the region that they live, it doesn't mean they aren't smarter.

Mmmm yep. People evolved in different areas of the world, much like other animals, and it was only the other animals that developed differences! It's a miracle they people all ended up the same, but everyone is born exactly the same!

These skull shape differences are partly due to Coca Cola involving itself heavily in Western culture, and the African countries having no Coca Cola:

http://www.debate.org...

Hardly any variation! It's all cultural!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/5/2015 4:18:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 10:57:46 AM, DarthSauron wrote:
There is no such thing as "the smartest race" unless you are talking about the human race in general; it is the smartest. But as you are talking about cultural groups, they are not genetically varied enough to be considered different species, therefore, they are all humans, and all have the same capabilities. The difference in their IQ is due to the level of education in the region that they live, it doesn't mean they aren't smarter.

IQ has nothing to do with education. It measures your intellectual potential.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/5/2015 4:20:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 6:26:40 AM, janesix wrote:
Ashkenazi Jews 115
East Asians 106
Whites 100
Hispanics 86
Blacks 85
Subsaharan Africans 70

Do you believe that IQ tests are accurate, and that race really differs that much in intelligence? If so, why the discrepancy?

They are reasonably accurate, and vary between races due in part to genetics and to having adequate nutrition and emotional support growing up.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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5/5/2015 7:25:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 6:26:40 AM, janesix wrote:
Ashkenazi Jews 115
East Asians 106
Whites 100
Hispanics 86
Blacks 85
Subsaharan Africans 70

Do you believe that IQ tests are accurate, and that race really differs that much in intelligence? If so, why the discrepancy?

Culture, education, familiarity with being tested etc.

http://www.apa.org...
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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5/5/2015 7:45:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/5/2015 7:25:14 AM, Garbanza wrote:
Culture, education, familiarity with being tested etc.

http://www.apa.org...

Although my personal view is that any differences are more likely to be due to biases in testing rather than anything else. Wechsler, Binet etc were all white/Jewish middle-class Europeans/Americans. Terman was an outright racist. And these were the chaps who came up with the concept of IQ and how to test it. Of course their concept would favor their own social class and culture. No subsaharan Africans were involved in the development of the IQ scales, for example. Maybe if they had been, different sorts of items would be included and the tests might have more universal validity.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,180
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5/7/2015 8:25:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 6:26:40 AM, janesix wrote:
Ashkenazi Jews 115
East Asians 106
Whites 100
Hispanics 86
Blacks 85
Subsaharan Africans 70

Do you believe that IQ tests are accurate, and that race really differs that much in intelligence? If so, why the discrepancy?

The suggestion seems to be that genetics is the cause of IQ, but that is not clear.
Nature over nurture?
It seems to me this is a flawed assumption, as we know that what happens from fetus to six years old is as important as what happens at conception, for brain and body development. More important in some cases.

Take a sub Saharan couple out of their home, put them in with a family in Minnesota or London, with all of the benefit of a middle class family, before impregnation.
Show me the results of the resulting child at age 16 so I can make an informed decision.

~ ~
Considering those at the top end, historically they had better nutrition, in part due to dietary laws, and in part due to wealth.

I found this interesting:
In 64 A.D., the high priest Joshua ben Gamla issued and implemented an ordinance mandating schools for all boys, beginning at age 6. Within 100 years, Jews had established universal male literacy and numeracy, the first ethnicity in history to achieve this.
The progressive, demanding edict created a huge demographic shift. The high, oft-times prohibitive cost of educating children in the subsistence farming economy of the 2nd to 6th centuries prompted numerous Jews to voluntarily convert to Christianity, leading to a decline in Jewish population from 4.5 million to 1.2 million.
Natural "eugenics" favored two groups in this situation: 1) the sons of wealthier, ostensibly more intelligent Jews, who could provide greater funding for the schools that maintained their offspring"s membership as Jews, and, 2) the smartest boys who could quickly learn reading, writing and arithmetic at a pace at which they could afford to "stay Jewish."
Who was left out? Removed from the gene pool? Answer: the poorer, uneducated Jews, and/or those with the lowest IQ.


They have culled the herd.

Cultural demands require Ashkenazi Jews to exercise their 'brain muscle'.

The Talmud itself is not a "law code" but instead, a huge compendium of ARGUMENTS. Jews are encouraged to see different perspectives of an issue, and they"re taught to question everything, including the Law, the Rabbi"s logic, and one"s own belief system. Rabbis developed argumentative principles, an entire system of questioning that the Jews have utilized for 2,000 years in both religious and secular debates.
The analytic, strategic skills developed in both Jewish dialectic and critical thinking are an important component of IQ tests, and they"re essential in legal, academic, science, and engineering careers.


Genetics were culturally important, for IQ:
In A History of the Jews, author Paul Johnson notes that, "among the Jews the most intelligent people have always been very valued and sought after as husbands, so they procreate and spread their good genes."
Meanwhile, Catholics were marrying for "class" reasons, angling for blue-blood aristocrat gains that had no link to intelligence. Physical strength and valor was also desired


If you want to build a castle, get a Jew. If you want to defend a castle, get a Christian.

Ashkenazi merchants plied their wares over a vast area, originally to Islamic regions, but later internationally - from rubber in Brazil to silk in China. To prosper in the exchange, they memorized multiple languages.
Neurologists today recognize that multiple language learning enhances memory, mental flexibility, problem solving, abstract thinking, and creative hypothesis formulation. Explanations of the benefits abound; I recommend listening to the video, "Bilingualism Will Supercharge Your Baby"s Brain."


There are genetic reasons why Ashkenazi Jews do better on IQ.

Ashkenazim are prey to about nineteen debilitating genetic diseases, and it"s been surmised that several of them might have cognitive "side effects" that can enhance intelligence. Many of the disorders can kill or severely weaken those who have two copies of the gene, but if you inherit just one, you get a "heterozygote advantage" that can include neuron growth promotion and accelerated interconnection of brain cells.

~ ~ ~
What is the best character trait to have for society to flourish?
Intelligence?
Longevity?
Brawn?
Stamina?
Empathy?
Artistic ability?
Or any of a dozen other qualities?
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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5/7/2015 9:00:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 6:26:40 AM, janesix wrote:
Ashkenazi Jews 115
East Asians 106
Whites 100
Hispanics 86
Blacks 85
Subsaharan Africans 70

Do you believe that IQ tests are accurate, and that race really differs that much in intelligence? If so, why the discrepancy?

Yes, hello. Black-Latino male here with an IQ over 100.

I believe it has a lot to do with culture, and the fact that non-whites and non-East Asians tend to live in poverty, and have less access to educational resources. I doubt it's "race" which is socially constructed, that indicates or determines a person's intellectual potential.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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5/8/2015 1:05:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 6:26:40 AM, janesix wrote:
Ashkenazi Jews 115
East Asians 106
Whites 100
Hispanics 86
Blacks 85
Subsaharan Africans 70

Do you believe that IQ tests are accurate, and that race really differs that much in intelligence? If so, why the discrepancy?

Well...first off. I have to tell you that the vast majority of anthropologists will tell you that there is technically no such thing as "race." That we are all of the genus "homo sapien sapien."

They will tell you that "race" is merely a social construct; a term we use out of convenience and ease of communication when referring to peoples from different parts of the world, and who have incurred slight physiological variations due to environment and cultural breeding and history.

Remember that, genetics-wise, the blondest, blue-eyed, fairest-skinned Norwegian shares about 99.7% identical DNA with, say, your typical Kenyan or Ethiopian.

But yeah, the term "race" is a useful if not anthropologically correct one. In fact I would say it is all-but indispensable when speaking of sociology and history and various cultures around the planet.

It could be argued that races are a "sub-species" of homo. But even then that is not biologically accurate, and you would get vehement argument from the anthro guys.

As far as those IQ tests: from looking at the stats in the OP I would have to say that it appears as if the test was almost certainly culturally biased. How to construct an IQ test that is NOT, and is fair and objective to ALL differing peoples from vastly different backgrounds and environments, has been a hot topic of debate for years and years.

I see no way there can be a 30-point gap between "races." The sub-saharan numbers seem impossibly low. Which only reiterates my opinion that the tests were culturally biased.

I have always said that I think an excellent measurement of true IQ is "the ability to learn new tasks quickly and efficiently."

This is a fair yardstick and NOT dependent on culture. I bet that if such a test were administered to all those peoples in the OP that you would not see such a wide variation in scores.

http://www.theguardian.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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5/8/2015 1:09:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
P.S. To my above post.

Ya know....come to think of it: I went back and looked at those test scores again after I completed my first post. Hmm...45 point diff between the top and bottom? No way, jose.

I noticed their was no link or posted-source for the scores?

Why not?

So..I am going to go out on a limb and say the OP simply fabricated the scores for the sake of trolling. If I am wrong, I will apologize. But till then.............

Link please??

Thanks.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,180
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5/8/2015 4:41:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 1:09:04 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
P.S. To my above post.

Ya know....come to think of it: I went back and looked at those test scores again after I completed my first post. Hmm...45 point diff between the top and bottom? No way, jose.

I noticed their was no link or posted-source for the scores?

Why not?

So..I am going to go out on a limb and say the OP simply fabricated the scores for the sake of trolling. If I am wrong, I will apologize. But till then.............

Link please??

Thanks.

Here are 33,000 links of related articles. Take your pick.
https://www.google.com...
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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5/8/2015 4:45:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 4:41:04 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/8/2015 1:09:04 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
P.S. To my above post.

Ya know....come to think of it: I went back and looked at those test scores again after I completed my first post. Hmm...45 point diff between the top and bottom? No way, jose.

I noticed their was no link or posted-source for the scores?

Why not?

So..I am going to go out on a limb and say the OP simply fabricated the scores for the sake of trolling. If I am wrong, I will apologize. But till then.............

Link please??

Thanks.

Here are 33,000 links of related articles. Take your pick.
https://www.google.com...

Now I know your stats are full of shite.

You only provided links on the vast and general subject of "race."

I did not find any with the IQ scores you posted in your OP.

Why not?
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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5/8/2015 5:10:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah..I noticed that the OP Janesix has not rebutted since.

This reiterates my opinion that the IQ scores were purely fabricated from whole cloth.

Funny thing, too: As a psych major we studied on how the human mind has an incessant habit of seeking patterns. Looking for reasons. It actually abhors randomness. Coincidence. This is a primary reason, for example, for our love of conspiracy theories. We always insist there must be a reason. Or a pattern. Even when there is none.

Oh..this evolved trait of the neo-cortical cortex served us well back in our hunter-gatherer days in the unforgiving African Savannah thousands of generations ago. But today, sometimes not so much.

Religion is an example of this: looking for patterns and reasons when there are none.

Anywway..yeah...patterns. We need them. Cannot do without them.

For example...did you know that most people CANNOT even generate a random number sequence when asked to do so. Try it sometime. Sit down and type in as random a set of integers as you can. Like this......

3...17..20...44...77...99...343...11.....2...14....etc.

Just an example. Well..if you were to do this and then have the set analyzed you would almost always find that despite your best efforts you indeed engaged in some sort of pattern. Like maybe, every third number was odd..or a multiple of 3..or whatever.

So..along these lines...we LOVE patterns.

And I see a pattern in the OP IQ scores.

They alternate between odd and even--base "5" and even, as in "6's."

Exactly what someone would do when trying to be random.

This is only my theory...and I will apologize to janesix is and when she/he provides a link to the scores.

But for now I am claiming the scores are purely fictional.

We shall see.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,180
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5/8/2015 5:35:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 4:45:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/8/2015 4:41:04 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/8/2015 1:09:04 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
P.S. To my above post.

Ya know....come to think of it: I went back and looked at those test scores again after I completed my first post. Hmm...45 point diff between the top and bottom? No way, jose.

I noticed their was no link or posted-source for the scores?

Why not?

So..I am going to go out on a limb and say the OP simply fabricated the scores for the sake of trolling. If I am wrong, I will apologize. But till then.............

Link please??

Thanks.

Here are 33,000 links of related articles. Take your pick.
https://www.google.com...

Now I know your stats are full of shite.

You only provided links on the vast and general subject of "race."

I did not find any with the IQ scores you posted in your OP.

Why not?

From the time I posted until you replied was 39 minutes.
So you spent what - 15 minutes researching 33,000 links?

The link I provided was a google search with the IQ scores of the top and bottom race.
There was no match if no IQ scores.

I spend a couple of hours researching, and this is solid information.

You really need to be spoon fed your information.
Aparently no research skills at all.
Baby bites are your speed.
They this one
http://www.freerepublic.com...

Here is another one
https://murderbymedia2.wordpress.com...
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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5/8/2015 5:40:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 5:35:58 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/8/2015 4:45:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/8/2015 4:41:04 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/8/2015 1:09:04 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
P.S. To my above post.

Ya know....come to think of it: I went back and looked at those test scores again after I completed my first post. Hmm...45 point diff between the top and bottom? No way, jose.

I noticed their was no link or posted-source for the scores?

Why not?

So..I am going to go out on a limb and say the OP simply fabricated the scores for the sake of trolling. If I am wrong, I will apologize. But till then.............

Link please??

Thanks.

Here are 33,000 links of related articles. Take your pick.
https://www.google.com...

Now I know your stats are full of shite.

You only provided links on the vast and general subject of "race."

I did not find any with the IQ scores you posted in your OP.

Why not?

From the time I posted until you replied was 39 minutes.
So you spent what - 15 minutes researching 33,000 links?

The link I provided was a google search with the IQ scores of the top and bottom race.
There was no match if no IQ scores.

I spend a couple of hours researching, and this is solid information.

You really need to be spoon fed your information.
Aparently no research skills at all.
Baby bites are your speed.
They this one
http://www.freerepublic.com...

Here is another one
https://murderbymedia2.wordpress.com...

Ouch!

Fair enough. You guys were right and I and my theory were wrong.

The numbers just struck me as being too divergent. They STILL do.

And I stand by my claim that the test had to be egregiously biased.

But..I am a man of my word--if also a lousy researcher. (actually--I am just too impatient!)...so again I offer my apologies for accusing the OP of falsifying info.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,180
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5/8/2015 6:10:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 5:40:16 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/8/2015 5:35:58 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/8/2015 4:45:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/8/2015 4:41:04 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/8/2015 1:09:04 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
P.S. To my above post.

Ya know....come to think of it: I went back and looked at those test scores again after I completed my first post. Hmm...45 point diff between the top and bottom? No way, jose.

I noticed their was no link or posted-source for the scores?

Why not?

So..I am going to go out on a limb and say the OP simply fabricated the scores for the sake of trolling. If I am wrong, I will apologize. But till then.............

Link please??

Thanks.

Here are 33,000 links of related articles. Take your pick.
https://www.google.com...

Now I know your stats are full of shite.

You only provided links on the vast and general subject of "race."

I did not find any with the IQ scores you posted in your OP.

Why not?

From the time I posted until you replied was 39 minutes.
So you spent what - 15 minutes researching 33,000 links?

The link I provided was a google search with the IQ scores of the top and bottom race.
There was no match if no IQ scores.

I spend a couple of hours researching, and this is solid information.

You really need to be spoon fed your information.
Aparently no research skills at all.
Baby bites are your speed.
They this one
http://www.freerepublic.com...

Here is another one
https://murderbymedia2.wordpress.com...

Ouch!

Fair enough. You guys were right and I and my theory were wrong.

The numbers just struck me as being too divergent. They STILL do.

And I stand by my claim that the test had to be egregiously biased.

But..I am a man of my word--if also a lousy researcher. (actually--I am just too impatient!)...so again I offer my apologies for accusing the OP of falsifying info.

Points for you on this one - good show.
I agree with your initial reaction, as usual the numbers don't really tell the whole story.
IQ tests are controversial with a homogeneous group. This really mucks it up.
YYW
Posts: 36,305
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5/8/2015 7:38:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/3/2015 6:26:40 AM, janesix wrote:
Ashkenazi Jews 115
East Asians 106
Whites 100
Hispanics 86
Blacks 85
Subsaharan Africans 70

Do you believe that IQ tests are accurate, and that race really differs that much in intelligence? If so, why the discrepancy?

This is stupid.
Tsar of DDO
janesix
Posts: 3,466
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5/26/2015 12:26:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 5:10:14 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Yeah..I noticed that the OP Janesix has not rebutted since.

This reiterates my opinion that the IQ scores were purely fabricated from whole cloth.

Funny thing, too: As a psych major we studied on how the human mind has an incessant habit of seeking patterns. Looking for reasons. It actually abhors randomness. Coincidence. This is a primary reason, for example, for our love of conspiracy theories. We always insist there must be a reason. Or a pattern. Even when there is none.

Oh..this evolved trait of the neo-cortical cortex served us well back in our hunter-gatherer days in the unforgiving African Savannah thousands of generations ago. But today, sometimes not so much.

Religion is an example of this: looking for patterns and reasons when there are none.

Anywway..yeah...patterns. We need them. Cannot do without them.

For example...did you know that most people CANNOT even generate a random number sequence when asked to do so. Try it sometime. Sit down and type in as random a set of integers as you can. Like this......

3...17..20...44...77...99...343...11.....2...14....etc.

Just an example. Well..if you were to do this and then have the set analyzed you would almost always find that despite your best efforts you indeed engaged in some sort of pattern. Like maybe, every third number was odd..or a multiple of 3..or whatever.

So..along these lines...we LOVE patterns.

And I see a pattern in the OP IQ scores.

They alternate between odd and even--base "5" and even, as in "6's."

Exactly what someone would do when trying to be random.

This is only my theory...and I will apologize to janesix is and when she/he provides a link to the scores.

But for now I am claiming the scores are purely fictional.

We shall see.

I got the numbers from "The Bell Curve". If I can find a link that supports the numbers, I'll provide it.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,180
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5/27/2015 8:05:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/26/2015 12:26:09 PM, janesix wrote:

I got the numbers from "The Bell Curve". If I can find a link that supports the numbers, I'll provide it.

It seems to me this has all of the raw data. I do not have time to wade through it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Different format here (that allows copy and paste):
http://www.biomedcentral.com...

The sample size is small, at 780 total.

Populations and Sampling
A total of 780 subjects were selected for inclusion in this study: mixed Jewish (N= 526) (the central sample of interest for which it was our goal to detect population structure), Ethiopian Jewish (EJ, N= 42), Thai (N = 45), Chinese (N = 29), African American (AA, N = 54), and European American (EA, N = 91). For some analyses, the mixed Jewish sample, collected in Israel, was divided into subsets based on self-reported information about parents. This included individuals with two Ashkenazi parents (AJ, N = 135), individuals with two non-Ashkenazi parents (NAJ, N = 226), and individuals with one Ashkenazi and one non-Ashkenazi parent (ANAJ, N = 38). These sub-samples do not add up to the total mixed Jewish sample due to missing self-report parental or grandparental information. The Asian populations in this study were collected as part of an ongoing gene mapping study. Samples of individuals self-identified as being of Thai and Chinese ancestry were obtained from a blood drive in Bangkok, Thailand. The Thai and Chinese samples used in this study were selected to include only subjects for whom all four grandparents were reported to have the same self-identified ethnicity as the subject. For analyses the Thai and Chinese samples were combined into one sample labeled Asian. The dataset also included samples of unrelated AAs and EAs a subset of a sample described elsewhere and for which population group self-identifications were previously confirmed via Bayesian marker clustering [50].