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Drug dealers & terrorists.

Strikeeagle84015
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8/6/2010 8:09:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Drug dealers propagate their misery because they hook people on the drugs and then those people turn to dealing drugs in order to get money for more drugs they also topple governments (Mexico, Colombia) extremists on the other hand commit one crime and then they can't really do anything because they blew themselves up, and they aren't even good at that as they have made one successful attack in the past 10 years, in the US
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
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InsertNameHere
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8/6/2010 8:10:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 8:09:37 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Drug dealers propagate their misery because they hook people on the drugs and then those people turn to dealing drugs in order to get money for more drugs they also topple governments (Mexico, Colombia) extremists on the other hand commit one crime and then they can't really do anything because they blew themselves up, and they aren't even good at that as they have made one successful attack in the past 10 years, in the US

Yea, gang violence results from drugs and drug dealers too.
LaissezFaire
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8/6/2010 8:40:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Drugs and drug dealers aren't inherently bad. You say that gang violence results from drugs and drug dealers. If that's true, then why is gang violence a relatively recent phenomenon? Opium and marijuana have been around for thousands of years, and heroin and cocaine for hundreds of years. Looking at the U.S. specifically, even though heroin and cocaine use were common throughout the 19th century, there was no epidemic of drug related violence. Like Prohibition created the mob, rather than alcohol itself, drug prohibition created gangs in our inner cities.
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annhasle
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8/6/2010 9:10:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm saying this not as a defense of drug dealer, gang member or terrorists character but as observations.

Drug dealers- They're obviously going to exist if there are drugs since someone needs to sell them. But no, they aren't bad people just because they are drug dealers. Are they selling illegal drugs? Yes. Does that make you inherently evil? No. That is up to your moral character before being a dealer. I have met dealers that are nice and funny people but do what they have to do to survive. It's more sad than anything else to me.

Gang members- I'd say 90% (my estimation not fact) of gang members join because of the camaraderie of a gang and not for the violent actions attributed to it. Some may join for the opportunity to shoot the rival gangs (maybe for revenge) but I think most do because of broken families, being orphaned or being misunderstood in other social situations (like school). They may do evil things but I think it's out of misplaced anger and a need to be praised/recognized.

Terrorists- By our standards, yes they seem evil. But most are terrorists because of religion or an organization (animal rights, environmental rights, etc.). They believe they are either doing what they are intended to do or for the greater good. Are some evil? Yes. Are all? No. I would never condemn someone automatically for being a terrorist before finding out the reason for their actions. If it was to gain praise by Allah for being a martyr than I would be sympathetic to their misguided lives but I'd still be mad for them killing innocent people. If they wanted abortions to stop and decided to torch a clinic then I would be mad since that could be talked out instead of through violent actions. Unlike through Islamic scripture, that terrorist would have a choice between violence and peaceful protesting. A martyr has no choice but to kill themselves for their God. But I don't believe them to be inherently evil because of that.

Really, good people can do evil things just like an evil person can do good things. Your actions don't characterize you completely as a person. Your character before and after are what decides if you are seen as evil by society. Could Hitler have done something nice in his life even though he was evil? Yes, he gave many gifts to his wife. But most of his actions were evil therefore he is seen as evil. If people gave more time to see the reason why things happen, they'd be more accurate in labeling people as bad or good. But at the end of the day, labels are meant for food not people. So we should just stop.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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8/6/2010 9:38:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If that's true, then why is gang violence a relatively recent phenomenon?

It isn't.

This does not render drugs the primary cause.

Though drug prohibition funnels large potential profit into them.
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Strikeeagle84015
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8/6/2010 10:14:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 9:10:55 PM, annhasle wrote:


but I think most do because of broken families, being orphaned or being misunderstood in other social situations (like school).

That I agree with but why are they orphaned, why are there families broken, what causes the abuse. The sick purveyors of human suffering that have enslaved them to the drugs and have robbed them of their money, their happiness, and their dignity.
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
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Korashk
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8/6/2010 10:15:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Drug Dealers perform a service for willing, paying customers. I honestly don't see how this is in any reasonable way comparable to terrorism.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
InsertNameHere
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8/6/2010 10:16:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 10:14:23 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:10:55 PM, annhasle wrote:


but I think most do because of broken families, being orphaned or being misunderstood in other social situations (like school).

That I agree with but why are they orphaned, why are there families broken, what causes the abuse. The sick purveyors of human suffering that have enslaved them to the drugs and have robbed them of their money, their happiness, and their dignity.

Well many terrorists have broken families too. I think I would be pretty messed up too if I grew up in nothing but war.
Strikeeagle84015
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8/7/2010 10:09:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 10:16:41 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/6/2010 10:14:23 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:10:55 PM, annhasle wrote:


but I think most do because of broken families, being orphaned or being misunderstood in other social situations (like school).

That I agree with but why are they orphaned, why are there families broken, what causes the abuse. The sick purveyors of human suffering that have enslaved them to the drugs and have robbed them of their money, their happiness, and their dignity.

Well many terrorists have broken families too. I think I would be pretty messed up too if I grew up in nothing but war.

The largest export of Pakistan Afghanistan and several other middle eastern countries is opium
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/7/2010 12:16:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 10:15:43 PM, Korashk wrote:
Drug Dealers perform a service for willing, paying customers. I honestly don't see how this is in any reasonable way comparable to terrorism.

This, exactly.
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Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/7/2010 12:44:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 12:16:45 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/6/2010 10:15:43 PM, Korashk wrote:
Drug Dealers perform a service for willing, paying customers. I honestly don't see how this is in any reasonable way comparable to terrorism.

This, exactly.

Minus, obviously, the druglords in places like Colombia and Mexico are doing, with all the hostage taking, blowing up of sh*t, and assassinations, which is terrorism. Right? Or are they just providing a service there too.
InsertNameHere
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8/7/2010 12:45:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 12:44:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/7/2010 12:16:45 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/6/2010 10:15:43 PM, Korashk wrote:
Drug Dealers perform a service for willing, paying customers. I honestly don't see how this is in any reasonable way comparable to terrorism.

This, exactly.

Minus, obviously, the druglords in places like Colombia and Mexico are doing, with all the hostage taking, blowing up of sh*t, and assassinations, which is terrorism. Right? Or are they just providing a service there too.

Nah, I'd say that's terrorism.
badger
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8/7/2010 12:56:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 12:44:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/7/2010 12:16:45 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/6/2010 10:15:43 PM, Korashk wrote:
Drug Dealers perform a service for willing, paying customers. I honestly don't see how this is in any reasonable way comparable to terrorism.

This, exactly.

Minus, obviously, the druglords in places like Colombia and Mexico are doing, with all the hostage taking, blowing up of sh*t, and assassinations, which is terrorism. Right? Or are they just providing a service there too.

not sure i'd call that terrorism. war would be more fitting... are they not just fighting fire with fire to keep themselves in business? either way i'd consider it far more justified than the actions of religious extremists.
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Danielle
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8/7/2010 1:00:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 12:44:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/7/2010 12:16:45 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/6/2010 10:15:43 PM, Korashk wrote:
Drug Dealers perform a service for willing, paying customers. I honestly don't see how this is in any reasonable way comparable to terrorism.

This, exactly.

Minus, obviously, the druglords in places like Colombia and Mexico are doing, with all the hostage taking, blowing up of sh*t, and assassinations, which is terrorism. Right? Or are they just providing a service there too.

What did you succeed in proving? Absolutely nothing. The drug dealers you're describing are terrorists indeed. That doesn't negate the fact that drug dealing is not equivalent to terrorism. Just because some engage in both doesn't make them the same thing... at all.
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Volkov
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8/7/2010 1:01:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 12:56:32 PM, badger wrote:
not sure i'd call that terrorism. war would be more fitting... are they not just fighting fire with fire to keep themselves in business? either way i'd consider it far more justified than the actions of religious extremists.

No, it's terrorism to be sure. They do it not only to attack the authorities and the police, but to intimidate the citizens and innocents around them from ever going against them. The main purpose of a lot of their actions is to instill a feeling of constant terror in the minds of people. That, by definition, is terrorism.
Volkov
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8/7/2010 1:02:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:00:40 PM, theLwerd wrote:
What did you succeed in proving? Absolutely nothing. The drug dealers you're describing are terrorists indeed. That doesn't negate the fact that drug dealing is not equivalent to terrorism. Just because some engage in both doesn't make them the same thing... at all.

You may have noted that I didn't agree with the idea that drug dealing was equivalent to terrorism, or possibly not.
badger
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8/7/2010 1:05:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:01:14 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/7/2010 12:56:32 PM, badger wrote:
not sure i'd call that terrorism. war would be more fitting... are they not just fighting fire with fire to keep themselves in business? either way i'd consider it far more justified than the actions of religious extremists.

No, it's terrorism to be sure. They do it not only to attack the authorities and the police, but to intimidate the citizens and innocents around them from ever going against them. The main purpose of a lot of their actions is to instill a feeling of constant terror in the minds of people. That, by definition, is terrorism.

fair enough.. that does sound like terrorism.
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Strikeeagle84015
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8/7/2010 1:07:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I just had a realization many of the terrorists are drug dealers and many of the drug dealers are terrorists
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/7/2010 1:08:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:07:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I just had a realization many of the terrorists are drug dealers and many of the drug dealers are terrorists

Yep. Even the Taliban were involved in the opium trade.
Sobriquet
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8/7/2010 1:18:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:08:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:07:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I just had a realization many of the terrorists are drug dealers and many of the drug dealers are terrorists

Yep. Even the Taliban were involved in the opium trade.

The Taliban tried to stop the opium trade before the US entry into Afghanistan...
"Bullsh!t is unavoidable whenever circumstance require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about."
— Harry G. Frankfurt
Volkov
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8/7/2010 1:18:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:18:03 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
The Taliban tried to stop the opium trade before the US entry into Afghanistan...

And now they've taken full advantage of it. Any ideas as to why?
Sobriquet
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8/7/2010 1:21:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:18:58 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:18:03 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
The Taliban tried to stop the opium trade before the US entry into Afghanistan...

And now they've taken full advantage of it. Any ideas as to why?

Hmm..Couldn't have anything to due with the funding they get and utilize against us Americans

Something tells me The Taliban aren't so fond of the United States occupation.
"Bullsh!t is unavoidable whenever circumstance require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about."
— Harry G. Frankfurt
InsertNameHere
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8/7/2010 1:23:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:21:29 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:18:58 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:18:03 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
The Taliban tried to stop the opium trade before the US entry into Afghanistan...

And now they've taken full advantage of it. Any ideas as to why?

Hmm..Couldn't have anything to due with the funding they get and utilize against us Americans

Something tells me The Taliban aren't so fond of the United States occupation.

None of the middle east is. They just want to be left alone. Tbh, I think the occupations themselves have lead to much of the terrorism they goes on. They're angry about the occupation and to be left alone. Of course there has been some instances where the terrorism hasn't been in self-defense, but much of it has been.
InsertNameHere
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8/7/2010 1:24:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:23:29 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:21:29 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:18:58 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:18:03 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
The Taliban tried to stop the opium trade before the US entry into Afghanistan...

And now they've taken full advantage of it. Any ideas as to why?

Hmm..Couldn't have anything to due with the funding they get and utilize against us Americans

Something tells me The Taliban aren't so fond of the United States occupation.

None of the middle east is. They just want to be left alone. Tbh, I think the occupations themselves have lead to much of the terrorism that goes on. They're angry about the occupation and want to be left alone. Of course there has been some instances where the terrorism hasn't been in self-defense, but much of it has been.
Sobriquet
Posts: 390
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8/7/2010 3:18:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 1:24:38 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:23:29 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:21:29 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:18:58 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/7/2010 1:18:03 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
The Taliban tried to stop the opium trade before the US entry into Afghanistan...

And now they've taken full advantage of it. Any ideas as to why?

Hmm..Couldn't have anything to due with the funding they get and utilize against us Americans

Something tells me The Taliban aren't so fond of the United States occupation.

None of the middle east is. They just want to be left alone. Tbh, I think the occupations themselves have lead to much of the terrorism that goes on. They're angry about the occupation and want to be left alone. Of course there has been some instances where the terrorism hasn't been in self-defense, but much of it has been.

Well, yeah. It ties in to what I said first. The US presence fuels the Taliban to abuse the drug trade. Otherwise, they are (mostly) against it. I think opium accounts for some 20+% of Afghanistan's GDP, and they produce over 90% of the worlds opium.
"Bullsh!t is unavoidable whenever circumstance require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about."
— Harry G. Frankfurt
InsertNameHere
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8/7/2010 6:00:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 3:18:14 PM, Sobriquet wrote:

Well, yeah. It ties in to what I said first. The US presence fuels the Taliban to abuse the drug trade. Otherwise, they are (mostly) against it. I think opium accounts for some 20+% of Afghanistan's GDP, and they produce over 90% of the worlds opium.

Well I was more making the point that the US occupation fuels terrorism, but yes, that too.
I-am-a-panda
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8/12/2010 2:58:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
*sigh* Drug suppliers in South America\Middle East| Wherever deal drugs to finance their operations, not the other way around. Their primary concern isn't drug dealing, it's terrorism. They deal drugs and get he cash to buy arms. The use these arms for whatever little military campaign they fancy. And if you're going to argue financing these operations is unethical, then stop buying any products, coffee, bananas, most electrical products which utilise resource mined in African dictatorships, diamonds, Chinese products, essentially, anything with a trace of violence attached to it.
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I-am-a-panda
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8/12/2010 3:03:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 2:58:30 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
*sigh* Drug suppliers in South America\Middle East\Wherever deal drugs to finance their operations, not the other way around. Their primary concern isn't drug dealing, it's terrorism. They deal drugs and get the cash to buy arms. They use these arms for whatever little military campaign they fancy. And if you're going to argue financing these operations is unethical, then stop buying any products, coffee, bananas, most electrical products which utilise resource mined in African dictatorships, diamonds, Chinese products, essentially, anything with a trace of violence attached to it.

Spelling fix. Also, stop buying oil from abroad too.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.