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Jon Snow Game of Thrones ending ~(SPOILER)~

Kryptic
Posts: 30
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6/16/2015 10:06:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have a few predictions... basically the only logical ones. I want to discuss what could happen and why.

Since Jon Snow was stabbed repeatedly at the end of S5... Is he
1. Dead.
2. Alive.
3. About to be resurrected.
4. About to take the role of Lady Stoneheart.
5. About to take the role of Cold Hands.
6. About to warg into his dire wolf.
7. About to turn into something not completely human, but has no affiliation with the previous numbers.

I would like to discuss this seriously...
No trolling
No swearing
No judging
No whining

Please lets discuss :)
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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6/16/2015 1:20:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Purely from the show's perspective, they've set up that priests and priestesses of the red god can resurrect people. That seems like the obvious path: Melissandre resurrects Jon. She's in need of a new avatar for her god, since Stannis didn't pan out. She clearly showed an interest in Jon in the past. They've dropped in so many clues that this seems to be the only route they can take. And those clues aren't obvious enough to make it meaningful to not do it.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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6/16/2015 5:33:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 1:20:45 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Purely from the show's perspective, they've set up that priests and priestesses of the red god can resurrect people. That seems like the obvious path: Melissandre resurrects Jon. She's in need of a new avatar for her god, since Stannis didn't pan out. She clearly showed an interest in Jon in the past. They've dropped in so many clues that this seems to be the only route they can take. And those clues aren't obvious enough to make it meaningful to not do it.

I agree with this. I think that either Melisandre genuinely believed that Stannis was AA reborn, and saw a vision of his demise in the flames, hence her shaken flight to Castle Black and to the person whom the vision told her to save, or she's never even believed 100% that Stannis was AA reborn the whole time, and started to doubt more as she interacted with Jon.

Melisandre makes herself appear more powerful than she is, and real magic takes an immense toll on her. The leeches weren't likely real magic; Melisandre probably saw those three die in her visions and made it appear as if she were powerful enough to kill them. 'Lightbringer' is a fake, a fact of which she must be aware. It's possible that she knew that Stannis would die as they set out to march on Winterfell, and that Jon would be stabbed, and convinced Stannis to burn Shireen so that, when she eventually abandoned him, she would be able to use the power of Kingsblood to revive Jon. It's going to be a powerful restoration of her character's 'good guy' status, since Melisandre (perhaps more in the books than in the show) has always been a complex, manipulative 'for the greater good' type who is one of the few neutral parties who is actually aware of the threat in the North and is acting to combat it. Saving the hero and killing the innocent, betrayal and personal sacrifice: anything to prevent the victory of the forces which represent death incarnate.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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6/16/2015 7:27:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Meh, it is better he stay dead than come back as an undead or a white-walker.

All of my favorite characters keep dying. The one main character that I dislike and want to die (Dany) seems all but invincible. I hate that the books/show seems to be setting up as if Daenerys will take back Westeros at the end of the series which sucks because I'm not a fan of that character at all.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/16/2015 8:17:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 7:27:56 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Meh, it is better he stay dead than come back as an undead or a white-walker.

All of my favorite characters keep dying. The one main character that I dislike and want to die (Dany) seems all but invincible. I hate that the books/show seems to be setting up as if Daenerys will take back Westeros at the end of the series which sucks because I'm not a fan of that character at all.

Cool..I thought I was the only one who hated Daenerys. LOL

I am not sure why. She is fairly hot. She is a liberator. She has those cool dragons.

Oh..I DO know why--the smugness. Is there a more arrogant person on GoT? Maybe Tyrion, but he's cool. And he can be self-deprecating.

Without those Dragons Dany would be shite.

Every time she is onscreen I want to slap her. LOL
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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6/16/2015 8:41:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 8:17:17 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/16/2015 7:27:56 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Meh, it is better he stay dead than come back as an undead or a white-walker.

All of my favorite characters keep dying. The one main character that I dislike and want to die (Dany) seems all but invincible. I hate that the books/show seems to be setting up as if Daenerys will take back Westeros at the end of the series which sucks because I'm not a fan of that character at all.

Cool..I thought I was the only one who hated Daenerys. LOL

I am not sure why. She is fairly hot. She is a liberator. She has those cool dragons.

Oh..I DO know why--the smugness. Is there a more arrogant person on GoT? Maybe Tyrion, but he's cool. And he can be self-deprecating.

Without those Dragons Dany would be shite.

Every time she is onscreen I want to slap her. LOL

You hit the nail on the head with smugness. Primary reason I dislike her is the "god complex" or should I say goddess complex? She's not a particularly altrustic person who wants what's good for the realm or cares about the people in Westeros. She wants to take back what's "hers." She wants power. And she wants to rule. So none of her motives are relatable or "noble" like Ned Stark or Jon or Robb. Yet, Martin as well as the show present her as a sort of "hero" that the audience is supposed to root for - except we can't. (Or maybe that character development was intentional). I guess the one good thing she did was use her dragons to abolish slavery but the way she did it (with all the freed slaves worshipping her at the end) was a bit sickening especially when she goes crown-surfing through them.

I don't find the actress particularly attractive either. Rose Leslie (Ygritte) and Gemma Whelan (Yara) are easily the most attractive cast members. Perhaps even Lena Headey. I don't get why anyone likes the character or find her attractive even.

Besides, even when liberating the slaves in Astapor, she killed the slave-masters for no reason at all. She promised dragons and reneged on the deal. I get that what they are doing is wrong but that was their culture, that was how they grew up, and they didn't deserve to be double-crossed and murdered basically.

I could say so much more but I'm ranting so I'll leave it at that.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/16/2015 8:46:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 8:41:20 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 6/16/2015 8:17:17 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/16/2015 7:27:56 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Meh, it is better he stay dead than come back as an undead or a white-walker.

All of my favorite characters keep dying. The one main character that I dislike and want to die (Dany) seems all but invincible. I hate that the books/show seems to be setting up as if Daenerys will take back Westeros at the end of the series which sucks because I'm not a fan of that character at all.

Cool..I thought I was the only one who hated Daenerys. LOL

I am not sure why. She is fairly hot. She is a liberator. She has those cool dragons.

Oh..I DO know why--the smugness. Is there a more arrogant person on GoT? Maybe Tyrion, but he's cool. And he can be self-deprecating.

Without those Dragons Dany would be shite.

Every time she is onscreen I want to slap her. LOL

You hit the nail on the head with smugness. Primary reason I dislike her is the "god complex" or should I say goddess complex? She's not a particularly altrustic person who wants what's good for the realm or cares about the people in Westeros. She wants to take back what's "hers." She wants power. And she wants to rule. So none of her motives are relatable or "noble" like Ned Stark or Jon or Robb. Yet, Martin as well as the show present her as a sort of "hero" that the audience is supposed to root for - except we can't. (Or maybe that character development was intentional). I guess the one good thing she did was use her dragons to abolish slavery but the way she did it (with all the freed slaves worshipping her at the end) was a bit sickening especially when she goes crown-surfing through them.

I don't find the actress particularly attractive either. Rose Leslie (Ygritte) and Gemma Whelan (Yara) are easily the most attractive cast members. Perhaps even Lena Headey. I don't get why anyone likes the character or find her attractive even.

Besides, even when liberating the slaves in Astapor, she killed the slave-masters for no reason at all. She promised dragons and reneged on the deal. I get that what they are doing is wrong but that was their culture, that was how they grew up, and they didn't deserve to be double-crossed and murdered basically.

I could say so much more but I'm ranting so I'll leave it at that.

I hear ya.

Where does she get that gandiose sense of Entitlement?

But look on the bright side: the way Martin has of killing-off popular characters, she might die!

Hey...you seem like a big fan. I have a question. Do you think Theon will ever come around? I used to think so, and maybe even one day sit on the Throne. he was an early dark horse candidate for me.
But I thought he might do it--kill Ramsay during the rape scene. But he wussed out.

Is there any hope for Reek? Martin is big on redemption. David over Goliath stuff. But I dunno.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
CK3138
Posts: 1
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6/16/2015 9:19:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Game of Thrones is one of my favorite shows/book series as well! I'm guessing that Melisandre will resurrect Jon, and since he died for a time he will be released from his vows to the Nights Watch. Hopefully, he can then press his claim on Winterfell as Jon Stark or at least destroy House Bolton. That's how I would like to see the plot go, at least :)

I also agree that Dany is unbearably smug, but she is so sassy that I can't help but love her!

So do you guys both watch the show and read the books, or just one or the other?
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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6/16/2015 10:30:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 8:46:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I hear ya.

Where does she get that gandiose sense of Entitlement?

But look on the bright side: the way Martin has of killing-off popular characters, she might die!

Hey...you seem like a big fan. I have a question. Do you think Theon will ever come around? I used to think so, and maybe even one day sit on the Throne. he was an early dark horse candidate for me.
But I thought he might do it--kill Ramsay during the rape scene. But he wussed out.

Is there any hope for Reek? Martin is big on redemption. David over Goliath stuff. But I dunno.

Best guess - Theon will come around and then die...
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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6/16/2015 10:32:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I watched the show, partly read the books (don't have time for them all), but mostly read up theories and analysis online to supplement the parts I didn't read.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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6/17/2015 11:11:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 5:33:33 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/16/2015 1:20:45 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Purely from the show's perspective, they've set up that priests and priestesses of the red god can resurrect people. That seems like the obvious path: Melissandre resurrects Jon. She's in need of a new avatar for her god, since Stannis didn't pan out. She clearly showed an interest in Jon in the past. They've dropped in so many clues that this seems to be the only route they can take. And those clues aren't obvious enough to make it meaningful to not do it.

I agree with this. I think that either Melisandre genuinely believed that Stannis was AA reborn, and saw a vision of his demise in the flames, hence her shaken flight to Castle Black and to the person whom the vision told her to save, or she's never even believed 100% that Stannis was AA reborn the whole time, and started to doubt more as she interacted with Jon.

Melisandre makes herself appear more powerful than she is, and real magic takes an immense toll on her. The leeches weren't likely real magic; Melisandre probably saw those three die in her visions and made it appear as if she were powerful enough to kill them. 'Lightbringer' is a fake, a fact of which she must be aware. It's possible that she knew that Stannis would die as they set out to march on Winterfell, and that Jon would be stabbed, and convinced Stannis to burn Shireen so that, when she eventually abandoned him, she would be able to use the power of Kingsblood to revive Jon. It's going to be a powerful restoration of her character's 'good guy' status, since Melisandre (perhaps more in the books than in the show) has always been a complex, manipulative 'for the greater good' type who is one of the few neutral parties who is actually aware of the threat in the North and is acting to combat it. Saving the hero and killing the innocent, betrayal and personal sacrifice: anything to prevent the victory of the forces which represent death incarnate.

Wow, I had not thought about Melisandre actually seeing Stannis being defeated in the flames and then burning Shireen to help save Jon. That seems crazy, but I also think it's possible. I don't know if anything can redeem her character at this point, unless she both brings back Jon and later does something to really wreck a despicable character, like Ramsay.