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Crime escalation and censorship

tvellalott
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8/17/2010 7:22:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am going to describe some unpleasant things... Just warning you.

So, I've been thinking (How very John Safran of me...)

"The Sex Party supports all reasonable measures aimed at preventing the abuse of children involved in the production of sexually explicit media. Federal legislation prohibits the possession or production of photographs and films that depict real children involved in sexual activity. The Sex Party supports that law. But federal law also prohibits the possession of written material containing descriptions of sexual activity involving children. Such material could include novels, personal journals, or fantasies. No evidence suggests that the prohibition of such writing prevents harm to children. The Sex Party would delete that prohibition." - http://www.thesexparty.ca...

Note the bolded section.
I think it boils down to "If no one is being harmed, then what IS the harm?"
It is a double edged argment.

Allowing such fiction and the distribution of Lolita (women who are small and child like) porn may indeed satisfy the fantasys of some individuals. It may even prevent some sex crime.

If you look at the history of almost ANY serial killer who has been caught in the last 60 years, you'll see their crimes escalate. Rarely do serial killers start out murdering people immediately.

The individuals who enjoy what is essentially pseudo-kiddy porn and read this sort of fiction, but are not compelled to go out and live any perverted fantasys; Would they have commited crimes if they weren't able to access said material?

The individuals who enjoy this stuff and eventually do go out and rape, murder, torture and terrorise; would they have commited the crimes if they weren't able to access said material?

In otherwords: Does it make any difference?

I don't think it does. Psychopaths don't need violent movies to go and murder. Normal people don't go and murder because of violent movies. You'll always have your Gacy characters.

Censorship doesn't make ANY difference.

As long as everyone involved legally consents to doing it, they should be allowed to. Scat, Roman showers, Bukkake, DP, Gay gangbangs, Bondage, Violent, whatever.

Two obvious exceptions: Child porn is wrong, because the children can't consent. They are usually groomed from a very young age and don't realise they are being exploited. Animal porn is wrong because the animals can't consent. I'm sure there are other things, but I can't think of them right now...

I'm just rabbling really. What do you all think?
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GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
Posts: 105
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8/17/2010 7:28:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I support their decision to delete the law. No children are harmed by writing describing underage sex.
"We were having a philosophical discussion and I asserted that the only demonstrable reality is individual consciousness, but he insisted on the existence of a priori moral values that transcended free will. So I hit him." - Walon Vau
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/17/2010 7:30:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/17/2010 7:28:55 PM, GeorgeCarlinWorshipper wrote:
I support their decision to delete the law. No children are harmed by writing describing underage sex.

It would be better than pedophiles molesting children too.
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
Posts: 105
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8/17/2010 7:35:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/17/2010 7:30:41 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:28:55 PM, GeorgeCarlinWorshipper wrote:
I support their decision to delete the law. No children are harmed by writing describing underage sex.

It would be better than pedophiles molesting children too.

^ This.
"We were having a philosophical discussion and I asserted that the only demonstrable reality is individual consciousness, but he insisted on the existence of a priori moral values that transcended free will. So I hit him." - Walon Vau
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/17/2010 7:37:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/17/2010 7:35:21 PM, GeorgeCarlinWorshipper wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:30:41 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:28:55 PM, GeorgeCarlinWorshipper wrote:
I support their decision to delete the law. No children are harmed by writing describing underage sex.

It would be better than pedophiles molesting children too.

^ This.

What about escalation of crime?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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8/17/2010 7:57:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/17/2010 7:35:21 PM, GeorgeCarlinWorshipper wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:30:41 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:28:55 PM, GeorgeCarlinWorshipper wrote:
I support their decision to delete the law. No children are harmed by writing describing underage sex.

It would be better than pedophiles molesting children too.

^ This.

This.

As far as your question, I do think that it would prevent some crimes. If nothing else making something legal makes the ones that were doing the now legal thing non criminals. Since no one is being harmed, no reason it shouldn't be legal. Since I'm sure you mean decline in child rapists, it might cause that decline. Most people know its wrong to rape children (well anyone...rape is wrong but especially wrong with children) having access to things that satisfy their pedophilic sexual desires while not harming children, might help those pedos not become rapists. There will still be child rapists but nothing can completely get rid of any evil.
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InsertNameHere
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8/17/2010 8:00:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/17/2010 7:57:30 PM, lovelife wrote:

As far as your question, I do think that it would prevent some crimes. If nothing else making something legal makes the ones that were doing the now legal thing non criminals. Since no one is being harmed, no reason it shouldn't be legal. Since I'm sure you mean decline in child rapists, it might cause that decline. Most people know its wrong to rape children (well anyone...rape is wrong but especially wrong with children) having access to things that satisfy their pedophilic sexual desires while not harming children, might help those pedos not become rapists. There will still be child rapists but nothing can completely get rid of any evil.

Well yes, there will still be child rapists, but that's why we make harsher penalties. They can leave their fantasies to their child erotica novels.
lovelife
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8/17/2010 8:08:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/17/2010 8:00:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:57:30 PM, lovelife wrote:

As far as your question, I do think that it would prevent some crimes. If nothing else making something legal makes the ones that were doing the now legal thing non criminals. Since no one is being harmed, no reason it shouldn't be legal. Since I'm sure you mean decline in child rapists, it might cause that decline. Most people know its wrong to rape children (well anyone...rape is wrong but especially wrong with children) having access to things that satisfy their pedophilic sexual desires while not harming children, might help those pedos not become rapists. There will still be child rapists but nothing can completely get rid of any evil.

Well yes, there will still be child rapists, but that's why we make harsher penalties. They can leave their fantasies to their child erotica novels.

My point. No way to get rid of them all but letting them have something that harms no one causes no harm, and might help fix some of the problem. Just saying doing one or the other wont fix the whole problem. If you actually hurt someone, be punished more. If not who cares?
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I-am-a-panda
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8/18/2010 4:03:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/17/2010 7:22:48 PM, tvellalott wrote:

Two obvious exceptions: Child porn is wrong, because the children can't consent. They are usually groomed from a very young age and don't realise they are being exploited.

The same with everything, religion, culture, etc. Unless you're going to step in and stop anyone influencing a child in anyway (Which is high-near impossible), that isn't a valid argument.
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/18/2010 4:16:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 4:03:28 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:22:48 PM, tvellalott wrote:

Two obvious exceptions: Child porn is wrong, because the children can't consent. They are usually groomed from a very young age and don't realise they are being exploited.

The same with everything, religion, culture, etc. Unless you're going to step in and stop anyone influencing a child in anyway (Which is high-near impossible), that isn't a valid argument.

I strongly disagree.
I am an anti-theist sure, but exposing a child to religion and culture is completely different to having sex with a child.
GTFO panda.
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feverish
Posts: 2,716
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8/18/2010 4:24:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 4:16:05 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/18/2010 4:03:28 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:22:48 PM, tvellalott wrote:

Two obvious exceptions: Child porn is wrong, because the children can't consent. They are usually groomed from a very young age and don't realise they are being exploited.

The same with everything, religion, culture, etc. Unless you're going to step in and stop anyone influencing a child in anyway (Which is high-near impossible), that isn't a valid argument.

I strongly disagree.
I am an anti-theist sure, but exposing a child to religion and culture is completely different to having sex with a child.
GTFO panda.

Panda has been Ragnarized lol
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/18/2010 4:26:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 4:16:05 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/18/2010 4:03:28 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:22:48 PM, tvellalott wrote:

Two obvious exceptions: Child porn is wrong, because the children can't consent. They are usually groomed from a very young age and don't realise they are being exploited.

The same with everything, religion, culture, etc. Unless you're going to step in and stop anyone influencing a child in anyway (Which is high-near impossible), that isn't a valid argument.

I strongly disagree.
I am an anti-theist sure, but exposing a child to religion and culture is completely different to having sex with a child.
GTFO panda.

No, your argument was that you would be taking advantage of a childs naiviety if you were to make them prostitutes from a young age and groom them. I argued that cultural and religious influences do the exact same thing.

Way to strawman artard.
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I-am-a-panda
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8/18/2010 4:27:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 4:24:30 AM, feverish wrote:
At 8/18/2010 4:16:05 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/18/2010 4:03:28 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/17/2010 7:22:48 PM, tvellalott wrote:

Two obvious exceptions: Child porn is wrong, because the children can't consent. They are usually groomed from a very young age and don't realise they are being exploited.

The same with everything, religion, culture, etc. Unless you're going to step in and stop anyone influencing a child in anyway (Which is high-near impossible), that isn't a valid argument.

I strongly disagree.
I am an anti-theist sure, but exposing a child to religion and culture is completely different to having sex with a child.
GTFO panda.

Panda has been Ragnarized lol

Ragnar doesn't strawman.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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8/18/2010 4:34:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 4:27:55 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/18/2010 4:24:30 AM, feverish wrote:

Panda has been Ragnarized lol

Ragnar doesn't strawman.

Sorry, I was unclear, I was referring to his views on consent laws.
I-am-a-panda
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8/18/2010 4:39:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 4:34:08 AM, feverish wrote:
At 8/18/2010 4:27:55 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/18/2010 4:24:30 AM, feverish wrote:

Panda has been Ragnarized lol

Ragnar doesn't strawman.

Sorry, I was unclear, I was referring to his views on consent laws.

Oh, lawl. Yeah, he got to me. It's easier to go with the stream of logic than against it.
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lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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8/18/2010 6:49:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Looks like everyone agrees except maybe Panda.
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I-am-a-panda
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8/18/2010 7:55:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 6:49:39 AM, lovelife wrote:
Looks like everyone agrees except maybe Panda.

I disagree with real child porn (As in, under the age of consent). But he had a bogus argument that I called him out on.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/18/2010 7:58:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
ah, so Panda hasn't been Ragnarized after all.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lovelife
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8/18/2010 8:06:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 7:55:05 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/18/2010 6:49:39 AM, lovelife wrote:
Looks like everyone agrees except maybe Panda.

I disagree with real child porn (As in, under the age of consent). But he had a bogus argument that I called him out on.

I'm against that too! So is everyone else on here. I do think that those in a similar age group should be exempt from being in trouble for having child porn. Like a 10 year old with an 11 year old's nude pic that was took of the 11 year old with their permission.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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8/18/2010 8:08:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
So is everyone else on here.
Warning. Warning. Unwarranted assumption.
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I-am-a-panda
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8/18/2010 8:08:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 7:58:32 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
ah, so Panda hasn't been Ragnarized after all.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
lovelife
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8/18/2010 8:08:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
But as long as the child doesn't grow up to become a suicide bomber, or close minded person, or something from religion no real harm really.
I'm sure that if a child is coerced into having sex with an adult it could later in life damage that child psychologically. I don't know for a 100% fact tho.
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I-am-a-panda
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8/18/2010 8:10:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 8:06:34 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/18/2010 7:55:05 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/18/2010 6:49:39 AM, lovelife wrote:
Looks like everyone agrees except maybe Panda.

I disagree with real child porn (As in, under the age of consent). But he had a bogus argument that I called him out on.

I'm against that too! So is everyone else on here. I do think that those in a similar age group should be exempt from being in trouble for having child porn. Like a 10 year old with an 11 year old's nude pic that was took of the 11 year old with their permission.

Child porn is child porn. The age of consent in Pandaville is 15 anyway.
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lovelife
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8/18/2010 8:10:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 8:08:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/18/2010 7:58:32 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
ah, so Panda hasn't been Ragnarized after all.



lmao
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I-am-a-panda
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8/18/2010 8:12:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 8:08:59 AM, lovelife wrote:
But as long as the child doesn't grow up to become a suicide bomber, or close minded person, or something from religion no real harm really.

Read a book on the indoctrination in Communist States.

I'm sure that if a child is coerced into having sex with an adult it could later in life damage that child psychologically. I don't know for a 100% fact tho.

If coercion is used it's violence anyway, which a crime anyway regardless of the plausible effects afterwards.
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lovelife
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8/18/2010 8:12:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 8:10:53 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/18/2010 8:06:34 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/18/2010 7:55:05 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/18/2010 6:49:39 AM, lovelife wrote:
Looks like everyone agrees except maybe Panda.

I disagree with real child porn (As in, under the age of consent). But he had a bogus argument that I called him out on.

I'm against that too! So is everyone else on here. I do think that those in a similar age group should be exempt from being in trouble for having child porn. Like a 10 year old with an 11 year old's nude pic that was took of the 11 year old with their permission.

Child porn is child porn. The age of consent in Pandaville is 15 anyway.

I didn't know of Pandaville.
I'm talking about crap like that thread that PF made, where the like 16 year olds where labled as pedophiles for having the picture of another minor. Yeah thats messed and I think the sex party should say something about that.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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8/18/2010 8:13:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yeah, COERCING children into sex is indeed something we're all against.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lovelife
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8/18/2010 8:16:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 8:13:17 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Yeah, COERCING children into sex is indeed something we're all against.

Okay poor choice of words. Breeding them for the purpose of f*cking them when they are still young and incapable of fully understanding is wrong.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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8/18/2010 8:18:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's hard to see that happening with no coercion. :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lovelife
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8/18/2010 8:22:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/18/2010 8:18:00 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's hard to see that happening with no coercion. :P

My point. We all actually agree.
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