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Virgina Battle Flag

kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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7/15/2015 1:40:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you have been online in the last few weeks you have likely seen or read about South Carolina removing the Confederate battle flag from its capital grounds. This has sparked quite the debate in the U.S. Let"s talk about it.

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Gmork
Posts: 82
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7/15/2015 2:35:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I do not believe the flag should have ever been flown at a government building, just as Texas should not have any of its other territorial flags of its past flown at its government's buildings, nor do I think tax dollars should be used for funding other country's celebrations. I am dismayed for the reasons for the removal of the flag, but ultimately happy with the outcome.

I submit a counter example: Cinco de Mayo. While Cinco de Mayo is not celebrating Mexico's independence, it is often viewed as such. Therefore, tax dollars being used to pay for celebrations ought to be banned, since the government should not be celebrating or promoting rebellion. So, should Cinco de Mayo celebration be banned, since the common view is Mexico's independence, even though it is not? Is this fundamentally different than saying the Virgina Battle Flag represents slavery and racism, when it is honoring the state's history? Obviously, the flag can represent racism, but it depends on who waves it?
kasmic
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7/15/2015 2:57:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I submit a counter example: Cinco de Mayo. While Cinco de Mayo is not celebrating Mexico's independence, it is often viewed as such. Therefore, tax dollars being used to pay for celebrations ought to be banned, since the government should not be celebrating or promoting rebellion. So, should Cinco de Mayo celebration be banned, since the common view is Mexico's independence, even though it is not? Is this fundamentally different than saying the Virgina Battle Flag represents slavery and racism, when it is honoring the state's history? Obviously, the flag can represent racism, but it depends on who waves it?

Interesting points.

I found the dichotomy of what the flag represents was frustrating. I found myself saying over and over "Flags can, do represent many things... these are not mutually exclusive symbols etc..."
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ironslippers
Posts: 509
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7/15/2015 4:46:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2015 1:40:04 PM, kasmic wrote:
If you have been online in the last few weeks you have likely seen or read about South Carolina removing the Confederate battle flag from its capital grounds. This has sparked quite the debate in the U.S. Let"s talk about it.

People have the right to fly any flag they chose and I reserve the right to burn it
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,070
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7/15/2015 7:38:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2015 1:40:04 PM, kasmic wrote:
If you have been online in the last few weeks you have likely seen or read about South Carolina removing the Confederate battle flag from its capital grounds. This has sparked quite the debate in the U.S. Let"s talk about it.

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To be fair, though, there aren't really a whole lot of other widespread symbols that represent the South.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,249
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7/15/2015 9:29:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We already had a war over this.

To the victor go the spoils, and that would be one federal flag on government buildings. Period.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/16/2015 8:22:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2015 2:35:43 PM, Gmork wrote:
I do not believe the flag should have ever been flown at a government building, just as Texas should not have any of its other territorial flags of its past flown at its government's buildings, nor do I think tax dollars should be used for funding other country's celebrations. I am dismayed for the reasons for the removal of the flag, but ultimately happy with the outcome.

I submit a counter example: Cinco de Mayo. While Cinco de Mayo is not celebrating Mexico's independence, it is often viewed as such. Therefore, tax dollars being used to pay for celebrations ought to be banned, since the government should not be celebrating or promoting rebellion. So, should Cinco de Mayo celebration be banned, since the common view is Mexico's independence, even though it is not? Is this fundamentally different than saying the Virgina Battle Flag represents slavery and racism, when it is honoring the state's history? Obviously, the flag can represent racism, but it depends on who waves it?

Cinco de Mayo is only viewed as celebrating Mexico's independence by Americans ignorant of history.

If anyone can tell me what battle or even what war or even who the Mexicans were fighting on the original Cinco de Mayo without looking it up I would be extremely impressed... Because 99.9999999% of Americans can't.
Gmork
Posts: 82
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7/16/2015 8:37:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 8:22:13 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/15/2015 2:35:43 PM, Gmork wrote:
I do not believe the flag should have ever been flown at a government building, just as Texas should not have any of its other territorial flags of its past flown at its government's buildings, nor do I think tax dollars should be used for funding other country's celebrations. I am dismayed for the reasons for the removal of the flag, but ultimately happy with the outcome.

I submit a counter example: Cinco de Mayo. While Cinco de Mayo is not celebrating Mexico's independence, it is often viewed as such. Therefore, tax dollars being used to pay for celebrations ought to be banned, since the government should not be celebrating or promoting rebellion. So, should Cinco de Mayo celebration be banned, since the common view is Mexico's independence, even though it is not? Is this fundamentally different than saying the Virgina Battle Flag represents slavery and racism, when it is honoring the state's history? Obviously, the flag can represent racism, but it depends on who waves it?

Cinco de Mayo is only viewed as celebrating Mexico's independence by Americans ignorant of history.

If anyone can tell me what battle or even what war or even who the Mexicans were fighting on the original Cinco de Mayo without looking it up I would be extremely impressed... Because 99.9999999% of Americans can't.

This is not my point. In fact, the Virginia Battle Flag is not the flag of the Confederacy. My point is: at what point does a symbol or event become, and subsequently treated as, the popular view as opposed to its actual symbolic heritage? If you want to make the argument the Confederacy was about slavery and was racist, that's fine, but this is a battle flag of one of many armies, not the unifying flag of said racist country.
Gmork
Posts: 82
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7/16/2015 8:37:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2015 2:39:39 PM, AFism wrote:
I think they should take down the american flag while they are at it.

Should there have been a war to keep them in the first place?
Gmork
Posts: 82
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7/16/2015 8:38:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2015 4:46:46 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/15/2015 1:40:04 PM, kasmic wrote:
If you have been online in the last few weeks you have likely seen or read about South Carolina removing the Confederate battle flag from its capital grounds. This has sparked quite the debate in the U.S. Let"s talk about it.

People have the right to fly any flag they chose and I reserve the right to burn it

The direct issue is the government flying the flag, not private citizens. I am unaware of any state or federal law that prohibits citizens from displaying any flag.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/16/2015 9:26:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 8:37:06 AM, Gmork wrote:
At 7/16/2015 8:22:13 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/15/2015 2:35:43 PM, Gmork wrote:
I do not believe the flag should have ever been flown at a government building, just as Texas should not have any of its other territorial flags of its past flown at its government's buildings, nor do I think tax dollars should be used for funding other country's celebrations. I am dismayed for the reasons for the removal of the flag, but ultimately happy with the outcome.

I submit a counter example: Cinco de Mayo. While Cinco de Mayo is not celebrating Mexico's independence, it is often viewed as such. Therefore, tax dollars being used to pay for celebrations ought to be banned, since the government should not be celebrating or promoting rebellion. So, should Cinco de Mayo celebration be banned, since the common view is Mexico's independence, even though it is not? Is this fundamentally different than saying the Virgina Battle Flag represents slavery and racism, when it is honoring the state's history? Obviously, the flag can represent racism, but it depends on who waves it?

Cinco de Mayo is only viewed as celebrating Mexico's independence by Americans ignorant of history.

If anyone can tell me what battle or even what war or even who the Mexicans were fighting on the original Cinco de Mayo without looking it up I would be extremely impressed... Because 99.9999999% of Americans can't.

This is not my point. In fact, the Virginia Battle Flag is not the flag of the Confederacy. My point is: at what point does a symbol or event become, and subsequently treated as, the popular view as opposed to its actual symbolic heritage? If you want to make the argument the Confederacy was about slavery and was racist, that's fine, but this is a battle flag of one of many armies, not the unifying flag of said racist country.

I wasn't talking about the flag at all, just wanted to make that point about Cinco de Mayo. In fact, this whole discussion about this flag and that flag is a frivolous waste of public time and energy.