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Varying forms of feminism

PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/20/2010 9:09:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It seems to me that the word feminism has synthesized over time to have different interpretations.

If feminism is synonymous with the suffrage movement, and in general, gives overall equality to women, then I am in favor of it.

Be that as it may, there is another form of feminism that appears to be, in many ways, self-destructive and self-refuting. There seems to be a side to feminism that covets male qualities, and looks upon feminine qualities as inferior or submissive. In this way, I view these kinds of feminists as being more closely akin to maleists.

These different types of feminists don't always agree either. One group of feminists look upon porn as the degradation and exploitation of women, whereas the other views it as a form of feminine empowerment.

But what are your thoughts?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Danielle
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8/20/2010 9:18:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Feminism is one of the broadest categories and terms; there's always a big hullabaloo in the "feminist community" about how to properly define it. Some feminists are huge advocates of separate but equal: acknowledging the inherent differences between men and women, masculinity and femininity, etc. but deciding that both are deserving of equal merit.

Others do not think that terms like masculine, feminine, etc. are useful or even necessary -- they think that people become too preoccupied with labels and groups, and that it undermines the individual and perpetuates stereotypes about how things should be creating even more problems and division. I can see the merits of both sides, though I tend to agree way more with the separate but equal ideology.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/20/2010 9:32:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Some feminists are huge advocates of separate but equal: acknowledging the inherent differences between men and women, masculinity and femininity, etc. but deciding that both are deserving of equal merit.:

Isn't that how most of the world operates now, minus the exclusionary factor of separate but equal?

Others do not think that terms like masculine, feminine, etc. are useful or even necessary -- they think that people become too preoccupied with labels and groups, and that it undermines the individual and perpetuates stereotypes about how things should be creating even more problems and division. I can see the merits of both sides, though I tend to agree way more with the separate but equal ideology.:

Yes, I realize that some social scientists view masculinity and femininity as social constructs. But it would be foolish to think that there is not an actual physiological difference between males and females in a generalized way. Sure, a lot of the social mores and behaviors could be attributed to a norming process, but I think the concept of gender norming attempts to artificially create an androgynous society. I don't think it would ever work.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Danielle
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8/20/2010 9:40:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 9:32:17 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Isn't that how most of the world operates now, minus the exclusionary factor of separate but equal?

I guess it's your opinion that most of the world operates that way... I disagree, but that's because all of the discrepancies and examples demonstrating otherwise have been thrown in my face for the past few years in tons of WGS courses :p

Yes, I realize that some social scientists view masculinity and femininity as social constructs. But it would be foolish to think that there is not an actual physiological difference between males and females in a generalized way. Sure, a lot of the social mores and behaviors could be attributed to a norming process, but I think the concept of gender norming attempts to artificially create an androgynous society. I don't think it would ever work.

I'm almost done reading this great book called The Female Brain and as soon as I'm done I'm moving on to The Male Brain ... which by the way is 50 pages shorter and contains bigger font ;P

Anyway the point is that I know all about the neurobiological differences between the sexes and only an idiot would pretend there aren't inherent, physiological differences between men and women. I think these feminists are trying to get across that masculinity and femininity can be looked at on a spectrum, correct? I'm sure most psychology majors here can verify this. And whatever genitals people have DO correlate to masculine and feminine traits (and their biological make-up and the effects thereof). However, these feminists don't like that we *expect* people to be a certain way because of their genitalia, and perpetuate these generalizations, because they think nature should run its course while society "nurtures" gender neutrality, so to speak.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/20/2010 10:04:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 9:40:48 AM, theLwerd wrote:


I'm almost done reading this great book called The Female Brain and as soon as I'm done I'm moving on to The Male Brain ... which by the way is 50 pages shorter and contains bigger font ;P


That's because the male brain is more powerful, efficient, with go faster strips and far reaching cosmic influence... does it have pictures?

Anyways, can't say I know too much about feminism, but from what I can tell it appears to be less about empowering woman to realise their full potential and have full equality of opportunity (which is what it should be) but instead is largely about telling women what they should be. Which is simply replacing male domination with feminist domination.

I feel sorry for women (sounds sexist I know) because after all this feminism, all this change for the better they are still conditioned to believe they are inferior. The constant barrage of the mass media, adverts, fiction etc etc... outlines a very clear and very patronising image of what a woman should be. All the most successful women have taken what they need from this, and rebelled against the rest.

If I ever have a daughter I will invest immense amounts of effort to ensure she 'knows' she can be anything she wants to be and that she is not just the product of celebrity magazines and sex in the city.

I am sure I am going to be accused of being sexist, but actually what I am saying is that we still have a sexist culture.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Danielle
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8/20/2010 10:07:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:04:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That's because the male brain is more powerful, efficient, with go faster strips and far reaching cosmic influence... does it have pictures?

Actually the misconception is that women are dumber because they have smaller brains; the reality is that their brains are only smaller because they're far more efficient.
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Danielle
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8/20/2010 10:08:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:04:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Anyways, can't say I know too much about feminism, but from what I can tell it appears to be less about empowering woman to realise their full potential and have full equality of opportunity (which is what it should be) but instead is largely about telling women what they should be. Which is simply replacing male domination with feminist domination.

Not only do you not know too much about feminism, but you seemingly know nothing at all.
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Danielle
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8/20/2010 10:09:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:04:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
If I ever have a daughter I will invest immense amounts of effort to ensure she 'knows' she can be anything she wants to be

Not true in this society. For instance women in the navy can't serve on subs. Why? Cuz they're chicks, that's why.

and that she is not just the product of celebrity magazines and sex in the city.

I love SATC and actually found it to be very pro feminism :p

I am sure I am going to be accused of being sexist, but actually what I am saying is that we still have a sexist culture.

This is true.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/20/2010 10:10:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:07:06 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/20/2010 10:04:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That's because the male brain is more powerful, efficient, with go faster strips and far reaching cosmic influence... does it have pictures?

Actually the misconception is that women are dumber because they have smaller brains; the reality is that their brains are only smaller because they're far more efficient.

Yea I know that, apparently the structure is very different. Some tasks activate one section of the brain in men, multiple ones in woman etc etc. Very strange.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/20/2010 10:12:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:08:02 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/20/2010 10:04:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Anyways, can't say I know too much about feminism, but from what I can tell it appears to be less about empowering woman to realise their full potential and have full equality of opportunity (which is what it should be) but instead is largely about telling women what they should be. Which is simply replacing male domination with feminist domination.

Not only do you not know too much about feminism, but you seemingly know nothing at all.

So all the news reports where screeching harpies condemn women for not acting as a woman should are faked then? They did not attack that French female politician for returning to work so shortly after giving birth on the grounds that it was not proper conduct for a woman for instance?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Danielle
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8/20/2010 10:14:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:12:12 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So all the news reports where screeching harpies condemn women for not acting as a woman should are faked then? They did not attack that French female politician for returning to work so shortly after giving birth on the grounds that it was not proper conduct for a woman for instance?

Oh right. I forgot that the actions of a few obviously speak for an entire belief system. Once again, the whole point here is that there are varying degrees of feminism (see OP). So when you say "feminists do this" you're blatantly ignoring the reality that different feminists feel different ways; the faction you're talking about is far smaller and less significant than the general aims of feminism as a whole. Also, who exactly was berating that French women? It seems like something a more socially conservative person would do...
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8/20/2010 10:17:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:09:34 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/20/2010 10:04:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
If I ever have a daughter I will invest immense amounts of effort to ensure she 'knows' she can be anything she wants to be

Not true in this society. For instance women in the navy can't serve on subs. Why? Cuz they're chicks, that's why.

Yea and in Britain they can't be coal miners, you are somewhat splitting hairs.


and that she is not just the product of celebrity magazines and sex in the city.

I love SATC and actually found it to be very pro feminism :p

It may be, but it is also very patronising. The characters are solely concerned with what are 'female' aspects. Clothes, shoes, their appearences, relationship with men, marriage, being mothers. That is the scope of their world.

I can see Samantha being the most revered feminist icon because she has a "male" attitude to sex and is fiercely independent. But she is also very much an acceptable stereotype of a woman.

But anyway, I don't care if my daughter loves the program, so long as she has multiple influences.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/20/2010 10:22:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:14:47 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/20/2010 10:12:12 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So all the news reports where screeching harpies condemn women for not acting as a woman should are faked then? They did not attack that French female politician for returning to work so shortly after giving birth on the grounds that it was not proper conduct for a woman for instance?

Oh right. I forgot that the actions of a few obviously speak for an entire belief system. Once again, the whole point here is that there are varying degrees of feminism (see OP). So when you say "feminists do this" you're blatantly ignoring the reality that different feminists feel different ways; the faction you're talking about is far smaller and less significant than the general aims of feminism as a whole. Also, who exactly was berating that French women? It seems like something a more socially conservative person would do...

What you have done here is reacted with a tribalistic instinct, which is unfortunate as you are better than that. Because you find yourself sympathetic to feminism or certain strands of feminism you feel that any attack on feminism is a personal attack on you. That is not an intellectial response and it is out of character for you.

In answer to your question it must have been socially conservative feminists then!

But anyway I maintain that feminism should be about the self-empowerment of women, not simply enforcing a new set of mores upon them.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Reasoning
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8/20/2010 10:25:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Feminism is the radical belief that women are people.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Danielle
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8/20/2010 10:30:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:17:50 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Yea and in Britain they can't be coal miners, you are somewhat splitting hairs.

How so? By pointing out the reality that women are inhibited by their sex for certain jobs? Oh, okay.

It may be, but it is also very patronising. The characters are solely concerned with what are 'female' aspects. Clothes, shoes, their appearences, relationship with men, marriage, being mothers. That is the scope of their world. I can see Samantha being the most revered feminist icon because she has a "male" attitude to sex and is fiercely independent. But she is also very much an acceptable stereotype of a woman.

So being into fashion is patronizing? You seem to be missing the point. You're saying that these women are all "girly" or hyper-feminine so clearly the show must be degrading. On the contrary I am the type of feminist who sees absolutely nothing patronizing about femininity or being concerned with appearances, fashion, etc. as women's brains are literally hardwired to be concerned about these seemingly frivolous issues. The point is that they are all strong, educated, competent women who although are very much girly are still confident, secure and successful. It shows that you don't have to pick one or the other. What's not feminist about it?
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Danielle
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8/20/2010 10:34:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:22:49 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
What you have done here is reacted with a tribalistic instinct, which is unfortunate as you are better than that. Because you find yourself sympathetic to feminism or certain strands of feminism you feel that any attack on feminism is a personal attack on you. That is not an intellectial response and it is out of character for you.

I find that whenever I disagree with someone, they resort to the "You're better than that" or "I didn't expect that from you" mentality which is really annoying. Instead of trying to understand my point, you're patronizing me right now and condescending my view simply because I corrected YOUR position.

I do not see attacks on feminism as an attack on me. What I said was that your PORTRAYAL of feminism was entirely inaccurate. While some sects are undoubtedly a little extremist, it's not fair to lump feminists into one group when the whole point of this thread is that they're not... at all. You can attack those certain beliefs as much as you want, but when you attack FEMINISTS as a whole - and I'm a feminist - then clearly I'm going to correct you for misrepresenting my position.

But anyway I maintain that feminism should be about the self-empowerment of women, not simply enforcing a new set of mores upon them.

I still don't know what you mean. Feminism IS about empowering women. Again different groups feel that women are empowered in different ways. But feminism itself is dedicated to that ideal: not valuing one sex or gender over another on the basis of that sex or gender alone.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/20/2010 10:38:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:30:24 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/20/2010 10:17:50 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Yea and in Britain they can't be coal miners, you are somewhat splitting hairs.

How so? By pointing out the reality that women are inhibited by their sex for certain jobs? Oh, okay.

Obviously when I said that I want my daughter to know she can be anything she wants to be it does come with common sense caveats. She is unlikely to be Queen of the Moon or the first chimp to settle venus. My son who will be taught the same is unlikely to become a bikini model or work in a womens institute.


It may be, but it is also very patronising. The characters are solely concerned with what are 'female' aspects. Clothes, shoes, their appearences, relationship with men, marriage, being mothers. That is the scope of their world. I can see Samantha being the most revered feminist icon because she has a "male" attitude to sex and is fiercely independent. But she is also very much an acceptable stereotype of a woman.

So being into fashion is patronizing?

No, but being taught that should be the primary interest of half the population instead of things such as sport, science, maths etc is.

You seem to be missing the point. You're saying that these women are all "girly" or hyper-feminine so clearly the show must be degrading.

Never used the word degrading, it is quite clear what I am saying. The show is presented half a dozen issues as the only concern of women is patronising.

On the contrary I am the type of feminist who sees absolutely nothing patronizing about femininity or being concerned with appearances, fashion, etc. as women's brains are literally hardwired to be concerned about these seemingly frivolous issues.

Are you the type of feminist who is happy at women being taught that they should solely be concerned by such things?

The point is that they are all strong, educated, competent women who although are very much girly are still confident, secure and successful. It shows that you don't have to pick one or the other. What's not feminist about it?

They all competent in narrow restricted feminine areas, they are strong and confident but bar one are reliant and needy when it comes to men.

It is not sexist because it says 'hey girls... aren't shoes great' it is sexist because it does not have much to say for itself after that.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/20/2010 10:44:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 10:34:42 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/20/2010 10:22:49 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
What you have done here is reacted with a tribalistic instinct, which is unfortunate as you are better than that. Because you find yourself sympathetic to feminism or certain strands of feminism you feel that any attack on feminism is a personal attack on you. That is not an intellectial response and it is out of character for you.

I find that whenever I disagree with someone, they resort to the "You're better than that" or "I didn't expect that from you" mentality which is really annoying. Instead of trying to understand my point, you're patronizing me right now and condescending my view simply because I corrected YOUR position.

I understood your point, however the anger that you reacted with was misplaced, clouded the issue and was beneath someone of your intelligence. So instead of being a complete jerk I paid you a compliment and politely show you the error. If you disagree that is fine.


I do not see attacks on feminism as an attack on me. What I said was that your PORTRAYAL of feminism was entirely inaccurate. While some sects are undoubtedly a little extremist, it's not fair to lump feminists into one group when the whole point of this thread is that they're not... at all. You can attack those certain beliefs as much as you want, but when you attack FEMINISTS as a whole - and I'm a feminist - then clearly I'm going to correct you for misrepresenting my position.

I simply referred to my personal experience of feminism, if one can not refer to what they have experienced what can they react to.


But anyway I maintain that feminism should be about the self-empowerment of women, not simply enforcing a new set of mores upon them.

I still don't know what you mean. Feminism IS about empowering women. Again different groups feel that women are empowered in different ways. But feminism itself is dedicated to that ideal: not valuing one sex or gender over another on the basis of that sex or gender alone.

Okay lets wrap this up, feminism is about empowering women, yet some feminists dictate to women what woman should be. I see the latter as a negative and retrograde step.

Which is pretty much what I said originally isn't it?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
InsertNameHere
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8/20/2010 11:26:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have once talked to somebody who was against feminism on the basis that he felt it would just lead to reverse sexism. Maybe the radical feminism, yes. I don't see that happening with the more moderate forms though.
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8/20/2010 11:31:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 11:26:45 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have once talked to somebody who was against feminism on the basis that he felt it would just lead to reverse sexism. Maybe the radical feminism, yes. I don't see that happening with the more moderate forms though.

Because of the flawed nature of human psychology we think in terms of our own self-interest. Equality movements are inspired by the injustice of a balance of power but their real objective is self-interest and empowerment which is open ended.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
lovelife
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8/20/2010 11:45:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 11:26:45 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have once talked to somebody who was against feminism on the basis that he felt it would just lead to reverse sexism. Maybe the radical feminism, yes. I don't see that happening with the more moderate forms though.

I once talked to Mirza. Enough said.

Anyway I agree with L, if a person, male or female, is interested in fashion clothes shopping "girly" things, its their choice. They shouldn't be told "okay son you need to be a football player" or pulling the girl to the side and being all "you know cheerleading tryouts are..." it only works if thats what they are interested in, and whats between your legs doesn't count, not really. Its how your brain works. If you have a penis you are more likely to think like this or be interested in that. That is fine but saying people should act a certain way because of their gender is wrong.
The "feminism" that goes against that by making women act completely different is wrong too, tho I can see their POV.

When filling out the form for my classes I had to find a PE class. the only non sports team ones that were females were co ed leisure and gym. Males inculded those and
Weightlifting (3 diff types)
Wrestling (2 diff types)
Boxing (2 diff types)

I got really angry and although I have litt/no interest in physical activity I decided to sign up for wrestling. Just the first one on the list because I didn't read all about it.
I changed my mind tho because I know I live in a sexist world and as a female I can't go into anything "for males" without being really good at it first, or else I will get laughed at and/or kicked out. I had too much drama already.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
InsertNameHere
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8/20/2010 11:51:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Lol, Lovelife. I don't think Mirza is sexist intentionally. He just has different ideas about genders roles due to his religion. I could, and have been called sexist for similar reasons.
lovelife
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8/20/2010 11:53:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 11:51:00 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Lol, Lovelife. I don't think Mirza is sexist intentionally. He just has different ideas about genders roles due to his religion. I could, and have been called sexist for similar reasons.

Lol yeah. Too bad sexism includes that with the definition.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/20/2010 12:02:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 11:45:48 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/20/2010 11:26:45 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have once talked to somebody who was against feminism on the basis that he felt it would just lead to reverse sexism. Maybe the radical feminism, yes. I don't see that happening with the more moderate forms though.

I once talked to Mirza. Enough said.

Anyway I agree with L, if a person, male or female, is interested in fashion clothes shopping "girly" things, its their choice.

That was not the argument!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
InsertNameHere
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8/20/2010 12:04:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ok, random thought, but it's still kinda on topic. Who else here has noticed that in catalogues and such they always show boys playing with things like the action figures? Girls can play with action figures too! I loved them as a child. Well that and cars, and barbies.
lovelife
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8/20/2010 12:05:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 12:02:02 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/20/2010 11:45:48 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/20/2010 11:26:45 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have once talked to somebody who was against feminism on the basis that he felt it would just lead to reverse sexism. Maybe the radical feminism, yes. I don't see that happening with the more moderate forms though.

I once talked to Mirza. Enough said.

Anyway I agree with L, if a person, male or female, is interested in fashion clothes shopping "girly" things, its their choice.

That was not the argument!

She was saying she doesn't see why you have to choose to be girly or not. That you can be both. So yeah it was.
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lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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8/20/2010 12:06:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 12:04:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Ok, random thought, but it's still kinda on topic. Who else here has noticed that in catalogues and such they always show boys playing with things like the action figures? Girls can play with action figures too! I loved them as a child. Well that and cars, and barbies.

Yeah and if you go out to eat and get a kids meal its all "boy toy or girl toy?" "whichever one kids like more...?" I hated it mom got me the boy toys cause the girl toys were dumb. Dad refused to not make me get girl toys.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/20/2010 12:07:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 12:05:22 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/20/2010 12:02:02 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/20/2010 11:45:48 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/20/2010 11:26:45 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have once talked to somebody who was against feminism on the basis that he felt it would just lead to reverse sexism. Maybe the radical feminism, yes. I don't see that happening with the more moderate forms though.

I once talked to Mirza. Enough said.

Anyway I agree with L, if a person, male or female, is interested in fashion clothes shopping "girly" things, its their choice.

That was not the argument!

She was saying she doesn't see why you have to choose to be girly or not. That you can be both. So yeah it was.

I am not sure she was, and I did not present a contrary argument... so no that was not the argument!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Yvette
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8/20/2010 12:09:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 9:09:08 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
It seems to me that the word feminism has synthesized over time to have different interpretations.

If feminism is synonymous with the suffrage movement, and in general, gives overall equality to women, then I am in favor of it.

Be that as it may, there is another form of feminism that appears to be, in many ways, self-destructive and self-refuting. There seems to be a side to feminism that covets male qualities, and looks upon feminine qualities as inferior or submissive. In this way, I view these kinds of feminists as being more closely akin to maleists.

These different types of feminists don't always agree either. One group of feminists look upon porn as the degradation and exploitation of women, whereas the other views it as a form of feminine empowerment.

But what are your thoughts?

What about feminists who demand recognition as human beings of equal worth and rights as any man?

And Lwerd is right, it's a very broad topic. To hate all feminists and declare yourself anti-feminist is inherently misogynistic because feminism includes more than "women are better than men".
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/20/2010 12:09:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 12:06:44 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/20/2010 12:04:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Ok, random thought, but it's still kinda on topic. Who else here has noticed that in catalogues and such they always show boys playing with things like the action figures? Girls can play with action figures too! I loved them as a child. Well that and cars, and barbies.

Yeah and if you go out to eat and get a kids meal its all "boy toy or girl toy?" "whichever one kids like more...?" I hated it mom got me the boy toys cause the girl toys were dumb. Dad refused to not make me get girl toys.

My parents allowed me to choose which one I wanted. :P Sometimes I wanted the boy toy and sometimes I wanted the girl toy. I played with quite a variety of toys growing up. My favourites were Barbies and Lego. I hated dolls though.