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Rags to Riches

Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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7/22/2015 6:13:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
In America, we have all heard of these stories. The national chain of restaurants that started in someone's garage, or the inventor downstairs tinkering away with a million dollar idea. Do these stories still happen? If not, why not?

On a related note, did these types of stories occur with such frequency in Europe? Do they now?
My work here is, finally, done.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/22/2015 6:57:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 6:13:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
In America, we have all heard of these stories. The national chain of restaurants that started in someone's garage, or the inventor downstairs tinkering away with a million dollar idea. Do these stories still happen? If not, why not?

On a related note, did these types of stories occur with such frequency in Europe? Do they now?

It's pretty rare in my opinion. It was a myth created by And romanticized by Horatio Alger, the American writer. The mindset of a poor person is very hard to escape. A lot of these rags to riches stories you do hear are typically exaggerations of a person's up bringing or just some people getting nigger rich, and their wealth is short lived.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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7/22/2015 8:04:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 6:13:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
In America, we have all heard of these stories. The national chain of restaurants that started in someone's garage, or the inventor downstairs tinkering away with a million dollar idea. Do these stories still happen? If not, why not?

The USA started at the cusp of post industrial urban migration. Its basically like playing the video game sim-city in god mode. If you look at Europe hubs of activity all the raods go in zig-zag. Now compare that to the orderly fashion of a metropolis like manhattan, or the city of boston, and you can figure it out. Economic progress is thus based upon creative destruction.

On a related note, did these types of stories occur with such frequency in Europe? Do they now?

Europes class system like caste hierarchy is rigid. Social mobility prevents riches-from-rags stories. Also, the United States is based upon Realism, and moving away from tradition. So I suppose Europe has the same stories in the form of mythos like Grimm's Snow White while the mythology we subscribe to is Ford, Rockerfeller and perhaps.. Donald Trump?
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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7/22/2015 8:06:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 6:57:06 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/22/2015 6:13:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
In America, we have all heard of these stories. The national chain of restaurants that started in someone's garage, or the inventor downstairs tinkering away with a million dollar idea. Do these stories still happen? If not, why not?

On a related note, did these types of stories occur with such frequency in Europe? Do they now?

It's pretty rare in my opinion. It was a myth created by And romanticized by Horatio Alger, the American writer. The mindset of a poor person is very hard to escape. A lot of these rags to riches stories you do hear are typically exaggerations of a person's up bringing or just some people getting nigger rich, and their wealth is short lived.

I suppose Myths are like childhood memories. Even if embarassing they provide a common bond.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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7/22/2015 8:59:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 6:57:06 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/22/2015 6:13:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
In America, we have all heard of these stories. The national chain of restaurants that started in someone's garage, or the inventor downstairs tinkering away with a million dollar idea. Do these stories still happen? If not, why not?

On a related note, did these types of stories occur with such frequency in Europe? Do they now?

It's pretty rare in my opinion. It was a myth created by And romanticized by Horatio Alger, the American writer. The mindset of a poor person is very hard to escape. A lot of these rags to riches stories you do hear are typically exaggerations of a person's up bringing or just some people getting nigger rich, and their wealth is short lived.

Obviously it is rare, but the idea is, IMO, less rare. Not necessarily to riches, but comfort. Or, upward mobility.
To be honest, I think the tax code actually hurts upward mobilty, and creats, maybe not a caste system, but something similar where the moderately wealthy (not the uber-rich) are insulated from the working up-and-comers. Old money plays differently with the tax code than new money, after all.

And I'm not sure what your term means, but I am not talking about the lottery or inheritances. I am talking about people who earned/created it themselves, in their lifetimes. Like the google folks, or the founder of Jimmy John's. They may not have been "rags" but, it's not like Paris Hilton starting a fashion line breazy eazy either.
My work here is, finally, done.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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7/22/2015 9:15:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 9:05:12 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
LOL
I don't think any of that response made any sense.

Then what about Riches-to-rags stories..

Think of it this way, google is basically a single line of code which is open source. They made a billion dollars of that. Facebook is basically a glorified dating site. Another billion. It has more to do with timing than innovation. For example, there at least 500 other search engines or dating sites which went bankrupt. You have GOogle but also have the Dotcom bust.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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7/22/2015 9:44:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 9:15:42 AM, fazz wrote:
At 7/22/2015 9:05:12 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
LOL
I don't think any of that response made any sense.

Then what about Riches-to-rags stories..
What about them, exactly?
I don't usually hear about them, except from lottery winners, and effective lottery winners (i.e. athletes, movie stars, etc. who make it big and is paid economic rent)

Think of it this way, google is basically a single line of code which is open source. They made a billion dollars of that. Facebook is basically a glorified dating site. Another billion. It has more to do with timing than innovation. For example, there at least 500 other search engines or dating sites which went bankrupt. You have GOogle but also have the Dotcom bust.

Businesses go bust all the time. I'm referring to the individual. Just because, say, Jimmy John's goes out of business, does not mean that Jimmy himself is bankrupt. It depends on how his money was spent, and, generally, people who earn their wealth make good decisions with their money, and avoid destitution if that income source taps out.
My work here is, finally, done.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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7/22/2015 10:02:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 9:44:40 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

Businesses go bust all the time. I'm referring to the individual. Just because, say, Jimmy John's goes out of business, does not mean that Jimmy himself is bankrupt.

I have never been to Jimmy Johns. You mentioned Google so I talked about that.

Then what about Riches-to-rags stories..
What about them, exactly?

I don't think Mark Zuckerberg made good decisions. I think it has a lot to do with the "demographic" he is from, lol.

It depends on how his money was spent, and, generally, people who earn their wealth make good decisions with their money, and avoid destitution if that income source taps out.

So basically:
"Wealthy people make good decisions" -
- i can accept that.

But I was not talking about wealthy people. I thought you meant like.. billionaires.. At the upper-crust level of 1%ers that means they got lucky. Lucky as in smart decisions BUT also hugely benefit from market centralisation. And centralisation of demand leading to oligopolies like organized crime.
AureusRex
Posts: 66
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8/23/2015 3:40:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 6:13:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
In America, we have all heard of these stories. The national chain of restaurants that started in someone's garage, or the inventor downstairs tinkering away with a million dollar idea. Do these stories still happen? If not, why not?

On a related note, did these types of stories occur with such frequency in Europe? Do they now?

They rarely happen, which is why they make good stories.
AureusRex
Posts: 66
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8/23/2015 3:48:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 8:04:50 AM, fazz wrote:
At 7/22/2015 6:13:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
In America, we have all heard of these stories. The national chain of restaurants that started in someone's garage, or the inventor downstairs tinkering away with a million dollar idea. Do these stories still happen? If not, why not?

The USA started at the cusp of post industrial urban migration. Its basically like playing the video game sim-city in god mode. If you look at Europe hubs of activity all the raods go in zig-zag. Now compare that to the orderly fashion of a metropolis like manhattan, or the city of boston, and you can figure it out. Economic progress is thus based upon creative destruction.

On a related note, did these types of stories occur with such frequency in Europe? Do they now?

Europes class system like caste hierarchy is rigid. Social mobility prevents riches-from-rags stories. Also, the United States is based upon Realism, and moving away from tradition. So I suppose Europe has the same stories in the form of mythos like Grimm's Snow White while the mythology we subscribe to is Ford, Rockerfeller and perhaps.. Donald Trump?

A common proposition but it hardly seems accurate. Do the rich men of America not bat an eyelid when approached by someone from a trailer park who went to a sub-standard college?
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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8/24/2015 1:29:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 3:48:05 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 7/22/2015 8:04:50 AM, fazz wrote:
At 7/22/2015 6:13:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
In America, we have all heard of these stories. The national chain of restaurants that started in someone's garage, or the inventor downstairs tinkering away with a million dollar idea. Do these stories still happen? If not, why not?

The USA started at the cusp of post industrial urban migration. Its basically like playing the video game sim-city in god mode. If you look at Europe hubs of activity all the raods go in zig-zag. Now compare that to the orderly fashion of a metropolis like manhattan, or the city of boston, and you can figure it out. Economic progress is thus based upon creative destruction.

On a related note, did these types of stories occur with such frequency in Europe? Do they now?

Europes class system like caste hierarchy is rigid. Social mobility prevents riches-from-rags stories. Also, the United States is based upon Realism, and moving away from tradition. So I suppose Europe has the same stories in the form of mythos like Grimm's Snow White while the mythology we subscribe to is Ford, Rockerfeller and perhaps.. Donald Trump?

A common proposition but it hardly seems accurate. Do the rich men of America not bat an eyelid when approached by someone from a trailer park who went to a sub-standard college?

I just pictured Donald Trump weilding his toothbrush like a cigar in his cheek shouting You're fired! at himself..
ax123man
Posts: 317
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8/24/2015 2:34:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you knew anything at all about millionaires, you'd know that they are the last people who would want others to know about their wealth. The reason you don't hear about it, is because they aren't interested in letting anyone know. The Donald Trumps of the world are exceptions and most millionaires probably find him to be obnoxious.

Here's a few fun facts about millionaires:

* The number of U.S. households with a net worth of $1 million or more, excluding primary residence, rose to 9.63 million in 2013
* Most modern American millionaires today (about 80%) are first-generation millionaires.
* Research indicates that the longer the average members of an ancestry group have been in the America, the less likely they are to become millionaires because they acclimate to a high-consumption lifestyle
* More than half never received as much as $1 in inheritance
* Nearly half never received any college tuition from their parents or other relatives

So, even if only 1% of those 80% 1st-gen millionaires started out in "rags", that would be 96,300 rags-to-riches stories (if $1 million net worth meets your definition of rich).

Also, most of the rich don't hold onto that wealth very long:

"In 90% of the cases it's gone by the time the grandchildren die."

So those 96,300 cases aren't static. It gets turned over frequently.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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8/24/2015 10:45:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/24/2015 2:34:12 PM, ax123man wrote:
If you knew anything at all about millionaires, you'd know that they are the last people who would want others to know about their wealth. The reason you don't hear about it, is because they aren't interested in letting anyone know. The Donald Trumps of the world are exceptions and most millionaires probably find him to be obnoxious.

Here's a few fun facts about millionaires:

* The number of U.S. households with a net worth of $1 million or more, excluding primary residence, rose to 9.63 million in 2013
* Most modern American millionaires today (about 80%) are first-generation millionaires.
* Research indicates that the longer the average members of an ancestry group have been in the America, the less likely they are to become millionaires because they acclimate to a high-consumption lifestyle
* More than half never received as much as $1 in inheritance
* Nearly half never received any college tuition from their parents or other relatives


So, even if only 1% of those 80% 1st-gen millionaires started out in "rags", that would be 96,300 rags-to-riches stories (if $1 million net worth meets your definition of rich).

Also, most of the rich don't hold onto that wealth very long:

"In 90% of the cases it's gone by the time the grandchildren die."

So those 96,300 cases aren't static. It gets turned over frequently.

See my conversation with Arieus above.