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Chivalry vs. Gender Equality/Feminism

jimtimmy8
Posts: 383
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8/28/2015 5:52:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Maybe... But, then again, maybe not.

All that seems certain is that, the stronger feminism gets, the more miserable women get. Almost a paradox
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,240
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8/28/2015 10:59:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 5:52:09 AM, jimtimmy8 wrote:
Maybe... But, then again, maybe not.

All that seems certain is that, the stronger feminism gets, the more miserable women get. Almost a paradox

More "rights" and "equality" earned means you are now realizing how much responsibility it now entails.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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jimtimmy8
Posts: 383
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8/29/2015 12:01:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 10:59:26 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/28/2015 5:52:09 AM, jimtimmy8 wrote:
Maybe... But, then again, maybe not.

All that seems certain is that, the stronger feminism gets, the more miserable women get. Almost a paradox

More "rights" and "equality" earned means you are now realizing how much responsibility it now entails.

There might be something to that.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/29/2015 1:24:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I didn't read the article, but I probably know what it says. Just be chivalrous XLAV. Even if the whole world thinks you're an idiot for it. Continue to open the doors for ladies, stand when one walks into a room, curb your language when one is present and do all those chivalrous acts. Forget about feminism, and how it wishes to destroys manliness. Just be a man, be honorable.
XLAV
Posts: 13,729
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8/29/2015 3:04:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 1:24:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
I didn't read the article, but I probably know what it says. Just be chivalrous XLAV. Even if the whole world thinks you're an idiot for it. Continue to open the doors for ladies, stand when one walks into a room, curb your language when one is present and do all those chivalrous acts. Forget about feminism, and how it wishes to destroys manliness. Just be a man, be honorable.

Well the article is really short and its about men in thetrain not giving women seats, lol.

And yeah, I agree with you being chivalrous.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,079
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8/29/2015 3:46:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
A man would not be given somebody else's seat in that situation. If a woman wants to be considered the equal of a man, she shouldn't expect chivalry. 'Nuff said.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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jimtimmy8
Posts: 383
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8/29/2015 5:45:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 3:39:57 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Just...hold open the door for anyone who happens to be behind you, regardless of gender.

Why?
Vox_Veritas
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8/29/2015 8:35:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 5:45:29 PM, jimtimmy8 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 3:39:57 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Just...hold open the door for anyone who happens to be behind you, regardless of gender.

Why?

Because that's the polite thing to do?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Otokage
Posts: 2,360
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8/31/2015 12:49:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/26/2015 3:35:29 PM, XLAV wrote:
So I read this article.

http://www.wheninmanila.com...

And it made me wonder, would feminism lead to the death of chivalry?

What do you think?

I don't think so, I'm not that gentleman, but the little chivalry acts I do, I do with both sexes, like opening the door, wait for other people to enter a room before me, try to solve the problem when I see someone stuck with something, etc. I do all this for guys too.
Otokage
Posts: 2,360
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8/31/2015 12:53:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 1:24:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
I didn't read the article, but I probably know what it says. Just be chivalrous XLAV. Even if the whole world thinks you're an idiot for it. Continue to open the doors for ladies, stand when one walks into a room, curb your language when one is present and do all those chivalrous acts. Forget about feminism, and how it wishes to destroys manliness. Just be a man, be honorable.

I don't think feminism wants to destroy manliness, and you are being a little disrespectful to men that are not chivalrous by stating they are not manly. Also, does the sentence "just be a man, be honourable" implies that women are not required to be honourable too?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/31/2015 5:08:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/31/2015 12:53:06 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 8/29/2015 1:24:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
I didn't read the article, but I probably know what it says. Just be chivalrous XLAV. Even if the whole world thinks you're an idiot for it. Continue to open the doors for ladies, stand when one walks into a room, curb your language when one is present and do all those chivalrous acts. Forget about feminism, and how it wishes to destroys manliness. Just be a man, be honorable.

I don't think feminism wants to destroy manliness,

I do think that radical feminism proposes to do exactly that.

and you are being a little disrespectful to men that are not chivalrous by stating they are not manly.

They aren't manly. They're weak and dishonorable. It's not really that hard to offer a lady your seat if she is forced to stand or open the car door for her. Of course For people from other cultures than me, I'm judging them less harsh than people from my culture.

Also, does the sentence "just be a man, be honourable" implies that women are not required to be honourable too?

No it doesn't, but I'm more concerned about my own kind. I care more about Whites being ethical because I'm white. I get mad at whites for dressing ignorantly by sagging their pants and don't even notice when blacks do it. I'm more upset with America's unjust wars in the Middle East than Israels, because I'm an American. I care more about the Carolina Panthers not committing turnovers than the Redskins, because I'm a Carolina fan.
Otokage
Posts: 2,360
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8/31/2015 6:13:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/31/2015 5:08:47 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 8/31/2015 12:53:06 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 8/29/2015 1:24:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
I didn't read the article, but I probably know what it says. Just be chivalrous XLAV. Even if the whole world thinks you're an idiot for it. Continue to open the doors for ladies, stand when one walks into a room, curb your language when one is present and do all those chivalrous acts. Forget about feminism, and how it wishes to destroys manliness. Just be a man, be honorable.

I don't think feminism wants to destroy manliness,

I do think that radical feminism proposes to do exactly that.

But what exactly is radical feminism? Some kind of cult that proposes women are better than men?

and you are being a little disrespectful to men that are not chivalrous by stating they are not manly.

They aren't manly. They're weak and dishonorable. It's not really that hard to offer a lady your seat if she is forced to stand or open the car door for her. Of course For people from other cultures than me, I'm judging them less harsh than people from my culture.

How is "opening the car door for people" related with being a man? I don't know how on Earth someone can reach this conclussion by logical means.

Also, does this mean that if a lady opens the door for you, you are somehow weak and not manly?

What about dishonour? How do you reach the conclussion that a man lacks honour for not following a trivial social protocol?

Also, does the sentence "just be a man, be honourable" implies that women are not required to be honourable too?

No it doesn't, but I'm more concerned about my own kind. I care more about Whites being ethical because I'm white. I get mad at whites for dressing ignorantly by sagging their pants and don't even notice when blacks do it. I'm more upset with America's unjust wars in the Middle East than Israels, because I'm an American. I care more about the Carolina Panthers not committing turnovers than the Redskins, because I'm a Carolina fan.

Is this somehow because you are afraid you will be thrown racist critiques if your race missbehaves? If yes, then why do you mind what some racist people can say about you?
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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8/31/2015 6:29:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 3:39:57 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Just...hold open the door for anyone who happens to be behind you, regardless of gender.

lol this.

Chivalry isn't a goodie you hand out, as long as you're respectful to everyone it doesn't really matter. I hold the door open for people because its rude to shut it in their face, not because they are male/ female. Same for giving over your seat or whatever. It isn't that big of a deal.
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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8/31/2015 7:13:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Forget chivalry. You don't need an outdated code of honor to be respectful and courteous to others. You guys are way overthinking it here. Just start being nice, if for no other reason than it feels nice and it tends to make people like you more. It really is just that simple.

I want to think highly of myself and I want people to think highly of me. And so I behave accordingly. Its a small world and you never know what dividends a simple act of kindness might pay.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/31/2015 11:47:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/31/2015 6:13:51 PM, Otokage wrote:

But what exactly is radical feminism? Some kind of cult that proposes women are better than men?

A cult yes. It seems as if they propose some type of gender reversal. I'm not completely sure of their deal.

and you are being a little disrespectful to men that are not chivalrous by stating they are not manly.

They aren't manly. They're weak and dishonorable. It's not really that hard to offer a lady your seat if she is forced to stand or open the car door for her. Of course For people from other cultures than me, I'm judging them less harsh than people from my culture.

How is "opening the car door for people" related with being a man? I don't know how on Earth someone can reach this conclussion by logical means.

That's not such a big deal, it's more a sign of your character if you do it than refrain, but some things are definitely bad character. Such as no letting a lady take your seat when there are none others available. Obviously this wouldn't apply to the elderly or handicapped either.

Also, does this mean that if a lady opens the door for you, you are somehow weak and not manly?

That's her choice. It reflects on her and not you, though I'd feel as if it was an insult.

What about dishonour? How do you reach the conclussion that a man lacks honour for not following a trivial social protocol?

We're social creatures my friend. If not for social protocol, we're no different than wild beasts.

Also, does the sentence "just be a man, be honourable" implies that women are not required to be honourable too?

No it doesn't, but I'm more concerned about my own kind. I care more about Whites being ethical because I'm white. I get mad at whites for dressing ignorantly by sagging their pants and don't even notice when blacks do it. I'm more upset with America's unjust wars in the Middle East than Israels, because I'm an American. I care more about the Carolina Panthers not committing turnovers than the Redskins, because I'm a Carolina fan.

Is this somehow because you are afraid you will be thrown racist critiques if your race missbehaves? If yes, then why do you mind what some racist people can say about you?

I don't care what racists say about me. I'm friends with a few black supremacists. I am concerned that since people group us together, their behavior reflects on me, though.
Otokage
Posts: 2,360
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9/1/2015 9:21:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/31/2015 11:47:06 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 8/31/2015 6:13:51 PM, Otokage wrote:

But what exactly is radical feminism? Some kind of cult that proposes women are better than men?

A cult yes. It seems as if they propose some type of gender reversal. I'm not completely sure of their deal.

So you are not really sure what they want, therefore you are not really sure that they want to end chivalry or make men "less manly". No? Also, pardon me but radical feminists sound like this Yeti or Loch Ness monster, like everyone speaks about them but nobody knows where they are or who they are... Also, what differences do you think there are between feminists and radical feminists?

and you are being a little disrespectful to men that are not chivalrous by stating they are not manly.

They aren't manly. They're weak and dishonorable. It's not really that hard to offer a lady your seat if she is forced to stand or open the car door for her. Of course For people from other cultures than me, I'm judging them less harsh than people from my culture.

How is "opening the car door for people" related with being a man? I don't know how on Earth someone can reach this conclussion by logical means.

That's not such a big deal, it's more a sign of your character if you do it than refrain, but some things are definitely bad character. Such as no letting a lady take your seat when there are none others available. Obviously this wouldn't apply to the elderly or handicapped either.

What about kids? Tired men, a father with his baby, etc? I guess you would give them your seat too, right? This is great, it shows you are a very polite person, but it also shows something not so good about you imo: you are equating handicapped people (elder, kids, tired men, etc) with healthy women. Doesn't this sound just plain wrong to you?


Also, does this mean that if a lady opens the door for you, you are somehow weak and not manly?

That's her choice. It reflects on her and not you, though I'd feel as if it was an insult.

So in this case, politeness is taken as an insult. If chivalry is making you misjudge the intentions of people, isn't chivalry a problem?

What about dishonour? How do you reach the conclussion that a man lacks honour for not following a trivial social protocol?

We're social creatures my friend. If not for social protocol, we're no different than wild beasts.

You are strawmanning it a little, don't you think :) I wasn't talking about giving up protocol whatsoever, but about the consequences of not following a trivial one. So, do you really think skipping this protocol makes a man dishonourable? Or rather you were exaggerating a little bit...

Also, does the sentence "just be a man, be honourable" implies that women are not required to be honourable too?

No it doesn't, but I'm more concerned about my own kind. I care more about Whites being ethical because I'm white. I get mad at whites for dressing ignorantly by sagging their pants and don't even notice when blacks do it. I'm more upset with America's unjust wars in the Middle East than Israels, because I'm an American. I care more about the Carolina Panthers not committing turnovers than the Redskins, because I'm a Carolina fan.

Is this somehow because you are afraid you will be thrown racist critiques if your race missbehaves? If yes, then why do you mind what some racist people can say about you?

I don't care what racists say about me. I'm friends with a few black supremacists. I am concerned that since people group us together, their behavior reflects on me, though.

Aren't "people that group you together" precisely racists? I don't hold something against someone because his particular race is famous for doing something wrong. I believe it's both unfair and immoral.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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9/2/2015 7:44:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't generally think of it as chivalry, just the good manners I learned from my parents and teachers and the other folks I grew up with. I hold doors for anyone. If someone needs a seat and I'm able to provide it, I will. (Note, I have a chronic back injury and it's not always possible. I am grateful when someone notices and offers me their seat. It's kind of a pay it forward thing.) I respect women as people and perhaps defer to their needs a bit more than my own at times but I find that to be a good social lubricant. I've never had a woman object to me opening a door, giving her a seat, or holding her chair at a dining table. If there are these radical feminists, I've yet to meet one.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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9/11/2015 10:29:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
First off, as it pertains to the article illustrating the woman standing whilst the other commuters sit, and given the context of the picture, the woman appears to be able to stand. The woman also decided to commute probably knowing that trains, busses, and various methods of public transportation can potentially become quite congested, thus allowing little to no seats available. If we hold ourselves accountable and remove any entitlement we may have and are physically able to perform a task (such as standing on the train), we could bypass antiquated concepts such as a man offering an physically able woman his seat solely because she is a she.

As it relates to chivalry, I perceive the concept as obsolete and idiotic. The concepts of being cordial and chivalry are (should be) mutually exclusive. Being cordial should be a concept enacted devoid of gender influence, race influence, and any other external factors involved. It should be a concept implemented to demonstrate civility, compassion, and even respect which are all admirable qualities. Chivalry removes a sense of individualty and implies that an act should be committed because a person is X, and all X's should be treated that way, instead of treating the person not because they are an X or a Y, but because of mutual individuals demonstrating a cordial behavior.