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Kim Davis is going to jail

Sidewalker
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9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

Who thinks she'd respect his religious beliefs and be OK with it?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
wsmunit7
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9/3/2015 7:05:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

Who thinks she'd respect his religious beliefs and be OK with it?

She is now in jail.
Sidewalker
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9/3/2015 7:18:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 7:05:22 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

Who thinks she'd respect his religious beliefs and be OK with it?

She is now in jail.

Good, that's where she belongs.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
wsmunit7
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9/3/2015 8:23:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 7:18:38 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 9/3/2015 7:05:22 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

Who thinks she'd respect his religious beliefs and be OK with it?

She is now in jail.

Good, that's where she belongs.
http://www.wkyt.com......

ASHLAND, Ky. (WKYT/AP) - A federal judge ordered Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis back to jail after she refused to authorize her deputies to grant marriage licenses.

Five of the six deputy clerks in Rowan County told a judge on Thursday that they will issue marriage licenses to gay couples, despite their boss' refusal to do so.

Attorneys for the plaintiffs proposed allowing her out of custody if she agrees to not interfere with marriage licenses for gay couples.

U.S. District Judge David Bunning agreed to the proposal, but Davis told him she'd rather stay in jail than allow her deputies to issue marriage licenses. Bunning ordered her back to jail.
s-anthony
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9/3/2015 9:44:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

Who thinks she'd respect his religious beliefs and be OK with it?

Good example.
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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9/3/2015 11:11:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like it when people are willing to stand up for what they believe. Even if it is really annoying when I don't agree with them.
Sidewalker
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9/4/2015 12:00:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 11:11:30 PM, Heterodox wrote:
I like it when people are willing to stand up for what they believe. Even if it is really annoying when I don't agree with them.

Dylann Roof stood up for what he believed in, so does ISIS and the Klu Klux Klan.

There's nothing to like about bigotry.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Saint_of_Me
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9/4/2015 2:01:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

Who thinks she'd respect his religious beliefs and be OK with it?

How does a wacko raghead like that get a job with the DMV anyway??

And yet another sign the Apocalypse is upon us. LOL
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Vox_Veritas
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9/4/2015 2:22:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
She isn't going to lose her life or experience torture for this, but to a slight degree she is a martyr IMO.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Heterodox
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9/4/2015 3:22:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:00:42 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 9/3/2015 11:11:30 PM, Heterodox wrote:
I like it when people are willing to stand up for what they believe. Even if it is really annoying when I don't agree with them.

Dylann Roof stood up for what he believed in, so does ISIS and the Klu Klux Klan.

There's nothing to like about bigotry.

Doesn't matter what they believe. If they are willing to stand up for their beliefs, I like it (cuz so few are under pressure). Notice I said stand up, not shoot the face off everyone who disagrees.
Skepsikyma
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9/4/2015 4:22:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 2:22:24 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
She isn't going to lose her life or experience torture for this, but to a slight degree she is a martyr IMO.

Lol, if I decided one day that I didn't like alcohol and then refused to serve customers instead of quitting my job, it doesn't make me a martyr, it makes me an assh*le who isn't willing to put his money where his mouth is. Even if I worked in a grocery store which previously did not serve alcohol, and then they began carrying it, I would STILL be an assh*le for not quitting in a statement of disagreement.

If she doesn't want to do her job, then she can step down. Trying to get paid for doing her job while... not doing her job isn't heroic, it's just lazy. Saint Sebastian wasn't some paper-pusher who stayed on Diocletian's payroll while refusing to issue lion-fight tickets. He was shot full of arrows, then beaten to death for cudgels for confronting the emperor after he survived the first execution attempt. Comparing THAT to some slug who refuses to do her job and doesn't expect to be fired from her cushy job for it is downright insulting.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Yassine
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9/4/2015 5:52:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

- What does driving have to do with religious beliefs?!
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Skepsikyma
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9/4/2015 6:21:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 5:52:56 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

- What does driving have to do with religious beliefs?!

It'd a stereotype based on Saudi cultural practices meant to show, through analogy, how absurd it is for one to expect not to be fired for refusing to do one's job.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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9/4/2015 7:26:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 2:22:24 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
She isn't going to lose her life or experience torture for this, but to a slight degree she is a martyr IMO.

Only in a similar sense that terrorists are martyrs, that is, because she thinks she's doing this for religious reasons and the consequences are only because of her own actions.

She is unprincipled and dishonest, and despite working for the government has no respect for this country, its laws, or her own oaths.
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bladerunner060
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9/4/2015 7:31:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 5:52:56 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

- What does driving have to do with religious beliefs?!

Are you unfamiliar with how Saudi Arabia's ban on women drivers is based on their religious interpretation, enforced by the mutaween?
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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9/4/2015 7:32:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 4:22:46 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 9/4/2015 2:22:24 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
She isn't going to lose her life or experience torture for this, but to a slight degree she is a martyr IMO.

Lol, if I decided one day that I didn't like alcohol and then refused to serve customers instead of quitting my job, it doesn't make me a martyr, it makes me an assh*le who isn't willing to put his money where his mouth is. Even if I worked in a grocery store which previously did not serve alcohol, and then they began carrying it, I would STILL be an assh*le for not quitting in a statement of disagreement.

If she doesn't want to do her job, then she can step down. Trying to get paid for doing her job while... not doing her job isn't heroic, it's just lazy. Saint Sebastian wasn't some paper-pusher who stayed on Diocletian's payroll while refusing to issue lion-fight tickets. He was shot full of arrows, then beaten to death for cudgels for confronting the emperor after he survived the first execution attempt. Comparing THAT to some slug who refuses to do her job and doesn't expect to be fired from her cushy job for it is downright insulting.

I agree. If I had a problem with it I probably would have just quit. Unless, of course, it also pissed me off then I might do what she did.
Yassine
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9/4/2015 8:56:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 6:21:27 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

It'd a stereotype based on Saudi cultural practices meant to show, through analogy, how absurd it is for one to expect not to be fired for refusing to do one's job.

- I got the intent of the OP, but nonetheless, bad analogy.
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Yassine
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9/4/2015 8:58:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 7:31:39 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:

Are you unfamiliar with how Saudi Arabia's ban on women drivers is based on their religious interpretation, enforced by the mutaween?

- Not it isn't. It's a policy based on cultural preferences. Nothing to do with religion.
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Sidewalker
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9/4/2015 10:15:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 6:21:27 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 9/4/2015 5:52:56 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/3/2015 6:22:18 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
I wonder what Kim Davis would do if the next time she goes to get her drivers license renewed, a Muslim clerk at the DOT refuses her a drivers license because of his religious belief that women shouldn't drive.

- What does driving have to do with religious beliefs?!

It'd a stereotype based on Saudi cultural practices meant to show, through analogy, how absurd it is for one to expect not to be fired for refusing to do one's job.

Exactly, and Kim Brown's prejudice against gays is about as Christian based as Saudi prejudice against women is Islam based.

There's a method to my madness.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
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9/4/2015 10:18:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 8:56:52 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/4/2015 6:21:27 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

It'd a stereotype based on Saudi cultural practices meant to show, through analogy, how absurd it is for one to expect not to be fired for refusing to do one's job.

- I got the intent of the OP, but nonetheless, bad analogy.

Kim Brown's prejudice against gays is not about Christianity, it's about fanaticism.

I hope you aren't trying to assert that Islam doesn't have fanatics too.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Yassine
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9/4/2015 10:41:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 10:18:17 AM, Sidewalker wrote:

Kim Brown's prejudice against gays is not about Christianity, it's about fanaticism.

- I don't think that's accurate at all!

I hope you aren't trying to assert that Islam doesn't have fanatics too.

- That's irrelevant to whether 'ban of driving' has religious motivation. Point being, the analogy is bad, you could've went with a more adequate one.
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Sidewalker
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9/4/2015 11:44:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 10:41:14 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/4/2015 10:18:17 AM, Sidewalker wrote:

Kim Brown's prejudice against gays is not about Christianity, it's about fanaticism.

- I don't think that's accurate at all!

You accept a negative caricature of Christianity but not an equal one of Islam?

I don't suppose you want to formally debate it do you?

I hope you aren't trying to assert that Islam doesn't have fanatics too.

- That's irrelevant to whether 'ban of driving' has religious motivation. Point being, the analogy is bad, you could've went with a more adequate one.

It's relevant because the so called Christian "ban on homosexuality" is no more religiously motivated than the Saudi "ban on driving" is.

Every religion has it's nut jobs.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Yassine
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9/4/2015 12:20:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 11:44:25 AM, Sidewalker wrote:

You accept a negative caricature of Christianity but not an equal one of Islam?

- I am elucidating what is a false caricature of Islam, be it negative or positive. I'd do the same for Christianity if I had the knowledge.

I don't suppose you want to formally debate it do you?

- Debate what?!

It's relevant because the so called Christian "ban on homosexuality" is no more religiously motivated than the Saudi "ban on driving" is.

- Obviously, that's not the case. Homosexuality is a sin in Christianity, & in all other world's great religions. That is, the scriptures themselves made such decrees. Driving, on the other hand, is no sin, & has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Saudis' ban on women's driving is a policy based of the public's preferences.

Every religion has it's nut jobs.

- True, yet irrelevant to this discussion.
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wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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9/4/2015 12:32:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The facts of the issue are that SCCOTUS has ruled that same sex marriage is a civil right. Your arguments aren't going to change that. You can protest all you want. You can also end up in jail like Kim Davis if your actions violate the civil rights of others.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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9/4/2015 1:05:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:20:34 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/4/2015 11:44:25 AM, Sidewalker wrote:

You accept a negative caricature of Christianity but not an equal one of Islam?

- I am elucidating what is a false caricature of Islam, be it negative or positive. I'd do the same for Christianity if I had the knowledge.

I don't suppose you want to formally debate it do you?

- Debate what?!

It's relevant because the so called Christian "ban on homosexuality" is no more religiously motivated than the Saudi "ban on driving" is.

- Obviously, that's not the case. Homosexuality is a sin in Christianity, & in all other world's great religions. That is, the scriptures themselves made such decrees. Driving, on the other hand, is no sin, & has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Saudis' ban on women's driving is a policy based of the public's preferences.

The reason that it's not about religion is the fact that the women in question has been divorced and remarried four times. In Christianity, remarrying is considered adulterous, so she herself is involved in a marriage which is just as sinful, according to Christianity, as a gay one. If she were being honest in her faith, she would have refused to issue marriage licenses for remarried people.

"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning, made them male and female,

And said, For this cause, shall a man leave father and mother, and cleave unto his wife, and they which were two, shall be one flesh?

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. Let not man therefore put asunder that, which God hath coupled together.

They said to him, Why did then Moses command to give a bill of divorcement, and to put her away?

He said unto them, Moses, because of the hardness of your heart, suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

I say therefore unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for whoredom, and marry another, commiteth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her which is divorced, doth commit adultery."
- Matthew 19 -
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
wsmunit7
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9/4/2015 1:34:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 1:05:01 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 9/4/2015 12:20:34 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/4/2015 11:44:25 AM, Sidewalker wrote:

You accept a negative caricature of Christianity but not an equal one of Islam?

- I am elucidating what is a false caricature of Islam, be it negative or positive. I'd do the same for Christianity if I had the knowledge.

I don't suppose you want to formally debate it do you?

- Debate what?!

It's relevant because the so called Christian "ban on homosexuality" is no more religiously motivated than the Saudi "ban on driving" is.

- Obviously, that's not the case. Homosexuality is a sin in Christianity, & in all other world's great religions. That is, the scriptures themselves made such decrees. Driving, on the other hand, is no sin, & has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Saudis' ban on women's driving is a policy based of the public's preferences.

The reason that it's not about religion is the fact that the women in question has been divorced and remarried four times. In Christianity, remarrying is considered adulterous, so she herself is involved in a marriage which is just as sinful, according to Christianity, as a gay one. If she were being honest in her faith, she would have refused to issue marriage licenses for remarried people.

"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning, made them male and female,

And said, For this cause, shall a man leave father and mother, and cleave unto his wife, and they which were two, shall be one flesh?

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. Let not man therefore put asunder that, which God hath coupled together.

They said to him, Why did then Moses command to give a bill of divorcement, and to put her away?

He said unto them, Moses, because of the hardness of your heart, suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

I say therefore unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for whoredom, and marry another, commiteth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her which is divorced, doth commit adultery."
- Matthew 19 -

The question is about civil rights. The Xtain fundamentalist want to MAKE it about freedom of religion because they have a warped idea of what "freedom of religion" is. They think it includes the right to discriminate in civil society based on THEIR religious beliefs, but ONLY THEIR's. Nobody else gets that freedom to discriminate against them.
Well, that is NOT what religious freedom is. I think this issue of "religious freedom" will end up in front of SCOTUS and the Xtain right will have to be taught another lesson. They AREN'T going to like it.
FaustianJustice
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9/4/2015 1:49:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:20:34 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/4/2015 11:44:25 AM, Sidewalker wrote:

You accept a negative caricature of Christianity but not an equal one of Islam?

- I am elucidating what is a false caricature of Islam, be it negative or positive. I'd do the same for Christianity if I had the knowledge.

I don't suppose you want to formally debate it do you?

- Debate what?!

It's relevant because the so called Christian "ban on homosexuality" is no more religiously motivated than the Saudi "ban on driving" is.

- Obviously, that's not the case. Homosexuality is a sin in Christianity, & in all other world's great religions. That is, the scriptures themselves made such decrees. Driving, on the other hand, is no sin, & has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Saudis' ban on women's driving is a policy based of the public's preferences.


And what is the source of those preferences? ;)

The entire reason why there was a gay marriage ban was due to "public preference" that was religiously motivated.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Yassine
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9/4/2015 6:20:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 1:05:01 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

The reason that it's not about religion is the fact that the women in question has been divorced and remarried four times. In Christianity, remarrying is considered adulterous, so she herself is involved in a marriage which is just as sinful, according to Christianity, as a gay one. If she were being honest in her faith, she would have refused to issue marriage licenses for remarried people.

"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning, made them male and female,

And said, For this cause, shall a man leave father and mother, and cleave unto his wife, and they which were two, shall be one flesh?

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. Let not man therefore put asunder that, which God hath coupled together.

They said to him, Why did then Moses command to give a bill of divorcement, and to put her away?

He said unto them, Moses, because of the hardness of your heart, suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

I say therefore unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for whoredom, and marry another, commiteth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her which is divorced, doth commit adultery."
- Matthew 19 -

- That is a very good point. Illuminating. I hate hypocrisy. Still, I wonder how is it that Divorce has been authorised in all Christian nations if it is prohibited by the scriptures? I know it wasn't before the 20th century, yet the transition must somehow have been justified!
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Yassine
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9/4/2015 6:31:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 1:49:40 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

And what is the source of those preferences? ;)

- Culture. Arabian women are used to been transported my men. & that's very embedded in their culture. It's considered extremely rude to make women lead their own ride. Historically, they carried women in what's called a Hawdaj (a covered seat put on the back of a camel). So, this tradition persisted even in modern times, although in different shades.

- Today, some young girls or unmarried women in Arabia express their interest in driving. However, generally, parents don't like it when their daughters drive & go out on their own. That's why such policies have not been repelled yet.

The entire reason why there was a gay marriage ban was due to "public preference" that was religiously motivated.

- Sounds about right.
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bladerunner060
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9/4/2015 7:25:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 8:58:30 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/4/2015 7:31:39 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:

Are you unfamiliar with how Saudi Arabia's ban on women drivers is based on their religious interpretation, enforced by the mutaween?

- Not it isn't. It's a policy based on cultural preferences. Nothing to do with religion.

I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong. The only reason that women are banned from driving are fatwas, issued as religious edicts by clerics in the country, and given that it's enforced by the religious police of the country, you are wrong.

"Saudi Arabia has no written law barring women from driving " only fatwas, or religious edicts, by senior clerics."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

What I'd like to know is upon what you based your denial? Because it's pretty common knowledge that this is based on the religion. You may disagree with their interpretation, but to deny that that's their reasoning entirely seems absurd.
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