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Free Speech

lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/8/2010 10:43:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well really the whole first amendment. How far do the rights actually go? According to the Oklahoma law it is illegal to use profanities around children under the age of 11, and/or females.
Freedom of the press has censorship laws.
Freedom of religion seems to be more like having the christians determine the laws, and be persicuted for being a part of the wrong religion.
It just goes on and on, and little-none of these freedoms are given to children.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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9/8/2010 10:45:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm an anarchist, I believe in Freedom of Speech, within limits. One should be free to incite a riot and blackmail people but obviously we must ban the use of profanity around our women. It would corrupt their character and turn them all into prostitutes.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/8/2010 11:03:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 10:45:36 PM, Reasoning wrote:
I'm an anarchist, I believe in Freedom of Speech, within limits. One should be free to incite a riot and blackmail people but obviously we must ban the use of profanity around our women. It would corrupt their character and turn them all into prostitutes.

I lawl'd
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/8/2010 11:14:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:10:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Any speech should be allowed unless it directly causes initiatory violence.

I'm asking about what IS allowed. I disaprove of who much the US promotes the "freedoms" but generally doesn't actually give them.

"I'm an anarchist, I believe in Freedom of Speech, within limits. One should be free to incite a riot and blackmail people but obviously we must ban the use of profanity around our women. It would corrupt their character and turn them all into prostitutes."

Lmao don't forget the kids, if you cuss around your 10 year old son he will grow up and murder people.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/8/2010 11:15:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:10:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Any speech should be allowed unless it directly causes initiatory violence.

In other words you don't support free speech.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/8/2010 11:17:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:15:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:10:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Any speech should be allowed unless it directly causes initiatory violence.

In other words you don't support free speech.

Harming people isn't free speech. Saying you want to kill all blacks and then actually having people carry those actions out is not free speech. It's hate violence.
FREEDO
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9/8/2010 11:22:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:15:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:10:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Any speech should be allowed unless it directly causes initiatory violence.

In other words you don't support free speech.

The difference between the freedom to speak and the freedom to speak an attack is the difference between the freedom to kick a football and the freedom to kick someone in the face.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/8/2010 11:24:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Imagine there is a voice activated bomb that would kill innocent people.

Still support the bomber's freedom to speak?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/8/2010 11:28:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Another question where does speach become hate speach? "I will kill all blacks" hate speach? "I hate blacks" Hate speach? "I don't think blacks are that good of people" Hate speach? "I think typically blacks are bad" Hate speach? "I don't like that one black guy" Hate speach?

Seriously I didn't post all the things between them but which is hate speach, and which is freedom of expression?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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9/8/2010 11:29:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have no clue why I made speech "speach" in that question above.
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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9/8/2010 11:31:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I believe in free speech without restrictions.
Anyone should be able to say whatever they want, however they want whenever they want. Obviously carving your message into the chest of your enemy is an exception.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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InsertNameHere
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9/8/2010 11:32:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:24:48 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Imagine there is a voice activated bomb that would kill innocent people.

Still support the bomber's freedom to speak?

Well in that case I would want everybody to stfu.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/8/2010 11:40:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:31:40 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I believe in free speech without restrictions.
Anyone should be able to say whatever they want, however they want whenever they want. Obviously carving your message into the chest of your enemy is an exception.

Dang it, so I can't tattoo "Property of J.Kenyon" on your @$$?
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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9/8/2010 11:44:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:40:54 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:31:40 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I believe in free speech without restrictions.
Anyone should be able to say whatever they want, however they want whenever they want. Obviously carving your message into the chest of your enemy is an exception.

Dang it, so I can't tattoo "Property of J.Kenyon" on your @$$?

Certainly not!
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/8/2010 11:47:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:40:54 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:31:40 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I believe in free speech without restrictions.
Anyone should be able to say whatever they want, however they want whenever they want. Obviously carving your message into the chest of your enemy is an exception.

Dang it, so I can't tattoo "Property of J.Kenyon" on your @$$?

He never said anything about that. Just the enemy's chest.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/8/2010 11:58:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:17:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:15:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:10:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Any speech should be allowed unless it directly causes initiatory violence.

In other words you don't support free speech.

Harming people isn't free speech. Saying you want to kill all blacks and then actually having people carry those actions out is not free speech. It's hate violence.

Words don't cause physical harm. By this standard, gangsta rap should be outlawed because its lyrics promote violence.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/9/2010 12:08:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:58:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:17:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:15:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/8/2010 11:10:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Any speech should be allowed unless it directly causes initiatory violence.

In other words you don't support free speech.

Harming people isn't free speech. Saying you want to kill all blacks and then actually having people carry those actions out is not free speech. It's hate violence.

Words don't cause physical harm. By this standard, gangsta rap should be outlawed because its lyrics promote violence.

Words have caused violence. Note: Nazi Germany. It may have been state sanctioned, but still. It still caused damaged.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/9/2010 12:12:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have no problem with "hate-speech". Or, rather, I may not like it but it doesn't directly cause violence.

Geo, also consider this: Is relentlessly screaming in someone's ear to the point of damage not violence in of itself?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/9/2010 12:27:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
What is the legal definition of hate speech?How much freedom do we really have? I know wee don't live in FREEDO land (not enough boxxy) so what is the line?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/9/2010 12:29:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:12:55 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I have no problem with "hate-speech". Or, rather, I may not like it but it doesn't directly cause violence.


Geo, also consider this: Is relentlessly screaming in someone's ear to the point of damage not violence in of itself?

Fail. That's physical violence. "Speech" is different than using your vocal chords to cause physical damage to someone. Likewise with the voice activated bomb example. That's not speech, that's using your voice as a trigger word to set off a bomb.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/9/2010 12:35:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:29:32 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/9/2010 12:12:55 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I have no problem with "hate-speech". Or, rather, I may not like it but it doesn't directly cause violence.


Geo, also consider this: Is relentlessly screaming in someone's ear to the point of damage not violence in of itself?

Fail. That's physical violence. "Speech" is different than using your vocal chords to cause physical damage to someone. Likewise with the voice activated bomb example. That's not speech, that's using your voice as a trigger word to set off a bomb.

But why does it have to be physical? I know abuse and pain can be much deeper than that and its real, so what if someone said something, that someone heard over and over and it made them feel like a really bad person so they kill themselves and/or others? Should that be allowed?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/9/2010 12:36:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:35:04 AM, lovelife wrote:

But why does it have to be physical? I know abuse and pain can be much deeper than that and its real, so what if someone said something, that someone heard over and over and it made them feel like a really bad person so they kill themselves and/or others? Should that be allowed?

According to me, no. Hurtful words have led people to suicide too.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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9/9/2010 12:45:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Nothing wrong with the right to speak your mind. Everything is wrong when you do so in order to cause direct violence and suffering to others.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/9/2010 1:20:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:45:00 AM, Volkov wrote:
Nothing wrong with the right to speak your mind. Everything is wrong when you do so in order to cause direct violence and suffering to others.

Exactly.
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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9/9/2010 2:13:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
That becomes harassment.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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lovelife
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9/9/2010 8:24:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 2:13:20 AM, tvellalott wrote:
That becomes harassment.

What does?
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jharry
Posts: 4,984
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9/9/2010 8:54:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Does anyone cuss explicitly in front of their grandmother or in public?

If yes please give reasons why this is ok.

If no then then please explain.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen