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The repercussions of no free will

Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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9/27/2015 6:25:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What do you think are the repercussions of a society where most people do not believe that free will exists? Include both positive and negative things if you can.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/27/2015 6:44:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 6:25:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What do you think are the repercussions of a society where most people do not believe that free will exists? Include both positive and negative things if you can.

Well people should understand first that the appearance of free will and thus the sense that volition has causal primacy,...is going no where, no matter what you believe. A lack of free will simply means we're factually mistaken about the true governor of our own behaviors, and that those behaviors will remain so governed regardless of our understanding of its governance.

People should understand secondly that insofar as the appearance of freewill exists and is really the basis for our conduct of society, it is impossible to treat it as though it does not exist . . . and so any change of behavior predicated on that mistaken idea will be wrong, as a matter of function rather than of fact.

So... to your answer your question. The not-so-smart people may be tempted to throw caution to the wind, but others would carry on undisturbed.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Vox_Veritas
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9/27/2015 7:12:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 6:44:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/27/2015 6:25:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What do you think are the repercussions of a society where most people do not believe that free will exists? Include both positive and negative things if you can.

Well people should understand first that the appearance of free will and thus the sense that volition has causal primacy,...is going no where, no matter what you believe. A lack of free will simply means we're factually mistaken about the true governor of our own behaviors, and that those behaviors will remain so governed regardless of our understanding of its governance.

People should understand secondly that insofar as the appearance of freewill exists and is really the basis for our conduct of society, it is impossible to treat it as though it does not exist . . . and so any change of behavior predicated on that mistaken idea will be wrong, as a matter of function rather than of fact.


So... to your answer your question. The not-so-smart people may be tempted to throw caution to the wind, but others would carry on undisturbed.

Do you imagine that many people would think "No matter what I do it really isn't my fault because I don't actually have free will" and go out and commit crimes? Would some people use the free will argument when standing trial for crimes committed?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Devilry
Posts: 464
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9/27/2015 7:18:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The notion of free will - and, of course, not to say that the notion does not arise from God - is something related to primal fear. It is Kierkegaard's 'Angest' (though I think he misunderstood it), Sartre also says a dumb thing or two about it, and Dostoyevsky says "Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most" ... Basically, our freedom is our greatest burden in life, it is the single most chilling thing we have, and none of that is ever really going away, nobody will ever not feel the press of their own freedom. As such, then, the question is mostly nonsense; an impossible hypothetical. There will never be "no free will". People might try to build walls up around themselves, to shelter themselves from themselves, but their freedom will always be primary. Freedom is the true essence of what it is to be alive to the world. It is the one thing we all truly fear. Isn't it that base uncertainty from which comes heaven and hell? That our actions are our true import in this world? Free will is essentially primordial.
: : : At 11/15/2016 6:22:17 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
: That's not racism. Thats economics.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/27/2015 7:22:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 7:12:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/27/2015 6:44:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/27/2015 6:25:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What do you think are the repercussions of a society where most people do not believe that free will exists? Include both positive and negative things if you can.

Well people should understand first that the appearance of free will and thus the sense that volition has causal primacy,...is going no where, no matter what you believe. A lack of free will simply means we're factually mistaken about the true governor of our own behaviors, and that those behaviors will remain so governed regardless of our understanding of its governance.

People should understand secondly that insofar as the appearance of freewill exists and is really the basis for our conduct of society, it is impossible to treat it as though it does not exist . . . and so any change of behavior predicated on that mistaken idea will be wrong, as a matter of function rather than of fact.


So... to your answer your question. The not-so-smart people may be tempted to throw caution to the wind, but others would carry on undisturbed.

Do you imagine that many people would think "No matter what I do it really isn't my fault because I don't actually have free will" and go out and commit crimes? Would some people use the free will argument when standing trial for crimes committed?

Well the obvious answer to both those questions is yes. I can't imagine no one using those arguments. But the arguments would nevertheless fail in court. The only import the argument against free will has on the law is a change of jurisprudence, from retributive punishment to deterrence, public safety, and rehabilitation as the sole functions of punishment... but frankly those other consideration already seem to play prominent roles in current jurisprudence, so I don't imagine a wide acceptance that libertarianism is false would affect much of anything.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Devilry
Posts: 464
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9/27/2015 7:22:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Men only ever either abide or rebel. Always there is a God, and always free will.
: : : At 11/15/2016 6:22:17 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
: That's not racism. Thats economics.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/27/2015 10:59:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 6:25:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What do you think are the repercussions of a society where most people do not believe that free will exists? Include both positive and negative things if you can.

People will probably start doing things they love more, not regretting the past as much and pursue their dreams more, since risk and regret will be dumb things to worry about or have. All around, the world would be a better place
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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9/29/2015 10:51:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 7:22:39 PM, Devilry wrote:
Men only ever either abide or rebel. Always there is a God, and always free will.

No, just no.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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9/29/2015 10:53:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 6:25:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What do you think are the repercussions of a society where most people do not believe that free will exists? Include both positive and negative things if you can.

Interesting, if society as a whole was ever intellectual enough to think about free-will and take the position that it doesn't exist, this society would be super cool because as a whole they all discuss philosophy, which would bring a humongous advancement in knowledge and intellectual discoveries.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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9/30/2015 9:43:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 6:25:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What do you think are the repercussions of a society where most people do not believe that free will exists? Include both positive and negative things if you can.

- Muslims don't believe in Free Will, & they created one of the greatest civilisations in History.
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