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Nature vs. Humans

John_Royals
Posts: 11
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10/17/2015 10:07:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The battle for Human progression. Questions I pose to generate meaningful discussion. Does our fight for the environment and animal rights limit our potential because of ethical conundrums between Man's role of himself and nature? Is science a double edged sword (ie: Theory of relativity, Atomic Bomb)? Is mankind's capacity for destruction, outweigh our capacity for good? Why do many Human's hate human nature? At what point do we as a species allow ourselves to stop growing for fear of the outcome? Is knowledge futile?
logical-master123
Posts: 288
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10/18/2015 9:29:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
White Fang

One of the main themes in Part 1 of White Fang is nature v.s. humans. In this theme, nature is stronger. Nature is tryin g to beat the Humans. In the end the Humans die.
Came back to the site :)
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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10/19/2015 12:18:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that historically we have caused more damage than benefit to this planet. However, I think that was largely due to simple ignorance. In most cases we didn't know any better until much of the damage was already done. But we have also historically corrected ourselves once we realized what was happening. The hole in the ozone layer is a good example. Once we realized there was a problem we took action and corrected it. The ozone layer has now recovered due to our self-correction. I believe that we are still capable of fixing most of what we've done. And I think we're currently in the process of that now. As we learn more I think that we will be fully capable of becoming caretakers of this planet. I do think that in the long term that humanity will be a beneficial species for this planet. After all who else is capable of things such as deflecting asteroids or affecting the climate? We are the only species capable of foreseeing, preparing for, and mitigating major extinction disasters.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,311
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10/19/2015 10:07:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 12:18:29 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
I think that historically we have caused more damage than benefit to this planet. However, I think that was largely due to simple ignorance. In most cases we didn't know any better until much of the damage was already done. But we have also historically corrected ourselves once we realized what was happening. The hole in the ozone layer is a good example. Once we realized there was a problem we took action and corrected it. The ozone layer has now recovered due to our self-correction. I believe that we are still capable of fixing most of what we've done. And I think we're currently in the process of that now. As we learn more I think that we will be fully capable of becoming caretakers of this planet. I do think that in the long term that humanity will be a beneficial species for this planet. After all who else is capable of things such as deflecting asteroids or affecting the climate? We are the only species capable of foreseeing, preparing for, and mitigating major extinction disasters.

In what historical context are you referring to? Humans have no hope of possibly matching Chicxulub even with the detonation of every nuke in optimal spots around the globe....
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,311
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10/19/2015 10:10:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Really the battle against Nature was over long ago when humans tamed its greatest predator, viruses, leading to a doubling of average human lifespans.

Man's greatest enemy now is himself, as there now exists no natural controls to prevent overpopulation and depletion of resources save starvation.

What a nasty battle that is going to be.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,610
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10/20/2015 1:17:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 12:38:11 AM, smelisox wrote:
Global warming is a lie and I love the flesh of animals.

Sorry.

Global warming is THE BIG LIE. Are you aware of the UN's Agenda 21? It's all part and parcel of the planned enslavement of humanity, except for the elites.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,311
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10/20/2015 1:32:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 1:17:54 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/20/2015 12:38:11 AM, smelisox wrote:
Global warming is a lie and I love the flesh of animals.

Sorry.

Global warming is THE BIG LIE. Are you aware of the UN's Agenda 21? It's all part and parcel of the planned enslavement of humanity, except for the elites.

Too bad it's not the truth; humans need culling, especially the useless ones.
smelisox
Posts: 850
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10/20/2015 7:53:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 1:32:55 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/20/2015 1:17:54 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/20/2015 12:38:11 AM, smelisox wrote:
Global warming is a lie and I love the flesh of animals.

Sorry.

Global warming is THE BIG LIE. Are you aware of the UN's Agenda 21? It's all part and parcel of the planned enslavement of humanity, except for the elites.

Too bad it's not the truth; humans need culling, especially the useless ones.

Aw diddums. Who pissed in your cereal?
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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10/20/2015 4:18:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 10:07:02 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/19/2015 12:18:29 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
I think that historically we have caused more damage than benefit to this planet. However, I think that was largely due to simple ignorance. In most cases we didn't know any better until much of the damage was already done. But we have also historically corrected ourselves once we realized what was happening. The hole in the ozone layer is a good example. Once we realized there was a problem we took action and corrected it. The ozone layer has now recovered due to our self-correction. I believe that we are still capable of fixing most of what we've done. And I think we're currently in the process of that now. As we learn more I think that we will be fully capable of becoming caretakers of this planet. I do think that in the long term that humanity will be a beneficial species for this planet. After all who else is capable of things such as deflecting asteroids or affecting the climate? We are the only species capable of foreseeing, preparing for, and mitigating major extinction disasters.

In what historical context are you referring to? Humans have no hope of possibly matching Chicxulub even with the detonation of every nuke in optimal spots around the globe....

The context of the rise of human civilization. True we can not match the damage done by some of the catastrophic events of the past. But we can certainly demonstrate that the rise of modern society has been mostly detrimental to the natural world. Even if you ignore the whole global warming issue you still have mass deforestation, water and air pollution, over-hunting, over-fishing, introduction of invasive species, excessive use of pesticides herbicides and fertilizers etc. Just our garbage alone is a major problem. But like I said I feel like we are reaching a tipping point with our knowledge and technology. I believe that sooner rather than later we will become true caretakers of the planet rather than just users.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,311
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10/20/2015 6:08:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 4:18:22 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 10/19/2015 10:07:02 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/19/2015 12:18:29 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
I think that historically we have caused more damage than benefit to this planet. However, I think that was largely due to simple ignorance. In most cases we didn't know any better until much of the damage was already done. But we have also historically corrected ourselves once we realized what was happening. The hole in the ozone layer is a good example. Once we realized there was a problem we took action and corrected it. The ozone layer has now recovered due to our self-correction. I believe that we are still capable of fixing most of what we've done. And I think we're currently in the process of that now. As we learn more I think that we will be fully capable of becoming caretakers of this planet. I do think that in the long term that humanity will be a beneficial species for this planet. After all who else is capable of things such as deflecting asteroids or affecting the climate? We are the only species capable of foreseeing, preparing for, and mitigating major extinction disasters.

In what historical context are you referring to? Humans have no hope of possibly matching Chicxulub even with the detonation of every nuke in optimal spots around the globe....

The context of the rise of human civilization. True we can not match the damage done by some of the catastrophic events of the past. But we can certainly demonstrate that the rise of modern society has been mostly detrimental to the natural world. Even if you ignore the whole global warming issue you still have mass deforestation, water and air pollution, over-hunting, over-fishing, introduction of invasive species, excessive use of pesticides herbicides and fertilizers etc. Just our garbage alone is a major problem. But like I said I feel like we are reaching a tipping point with our knowledge and technology. I believe that sooner rather than later we will become true caretakers of the planet rather than just users.

Well, I wouldn't lose too much sleep worrying whether the Earth can recover from humans.
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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10/21/2015 12:10:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 6:08:38 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/20/2015 4:18:22 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 10/19/2015 10:07:02 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/19/2015 12:18:29 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
I think that historically we have caused more damage than benefit to this planet. However, I think that was largely due to simple ignorance. In most cases we didn't know any better until much of the damage was already done. But we have also historically corrected ourselves once we realized what was happening. The hole in the ozone layer is a good example. Once we realized there was a problem we took action and corrected it. The ozone layer has now recovered due to our self-correction. I believe that we are still capable of fixing most of what we've done. And I think we're currently in the process of that now. As we learn more I think that we will be fully capable of becoming caretakers of this planet. I do think that in the long term that humanity will be a beneficial species for this planet. After all who else is capable of things such as deflecting asteroids or affecting the climate? We are the only species capable of foreseeing, preparing for, and mitigating major extinction disasters.

In what historical context are you referring to? Humans have no hope of possibly matching Chicxulub even with the detonation of every nuke in optimal spots around the globe....

The context of the rise of human civilization. True we can not match the damage done by some of the catastrophic events of the past. But we can certainly demonstrate that the rise of modern society has been mostly detrimental to the natural world. Even if you ignore the whole global warming issue you still have mass deforestation, water and air pollution, over-hunting, over-fishing, introduction of invasive species, excessive use of pesticides herbicides and fertilizers etc. Just our garbage alone is a major problem. But like I said I feel like we are reaching a tipping point with our knowledge and technology. I believe that sooner rather than later we will become true caretakers of the planet rather than just users.

Well, I wouldn't lose too much sleep worrying whether the Earth can recover from humans.

That's not my point. My point is that going forward humans are the only species capable of recognizing obstacles to the continued survival of the current life on the planet. And we are actually capable (or will be in the future) of of overcoming most of those obstacles. In this way we can preserve what we have which is the conditions that support us and life like us. This means that although we have been detrimental to most other life on the planet for the duration of our rise to civilization, we can actually change that trend now.

The earth will be fine. It will continue doing its thing regardless of what we do. But we're not just talking about the well-being of the earth here. We're also talking about the well-being of the current life on the planet, ourselves included. The well-being of most other species has historically declined as we rose to become the dominant species on earth. I think that trend could possibly change now because not only do we have the knowledge and the technology to make it happen, but we've finally come to the realization as a society that our well-being is unavoidably tied to the well-being of our environment. If it dies, we die. And so now we have both the capability and motivation to make a real positive change.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,311
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10/21/2015 12:26:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/21/2015 12:10:11 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 10/20/2015 6:08:38 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/20/2015 4:18:22 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 10/19/2015 10:07:02 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/19/2015 12:18:29 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
I think that historically we have caused more damage than benefit to this planet. However, I think that was largely due to simple ignorance. In most cases we didn't know any better until much of the damage was already done. But we have also historically corrected ourselves once we realized what was happening. The hole in the ozone layer is a good example. Once we realized there was a problem we took action and corrected it. The ozone layer has now recovered due to our self-correction. I believe that we are still capable of fixing most of what we've done. And I think we're currently in the process of that now. As we learn more I think that we will be fully capable of becoming caretakers of this planet. I do think that in the long term that humanity will be a beneficial species for this planet. After all who else is capable of things such as deflecting asteroids or affecting the climate? We are the only species capable of foreseeing, preparing for, and mitigating major extinction disasters.

In what historical context are you referring to? Humans have no hope of possibly matching Chicxulub even with the detonation of every nuke in optimal spots around the globe....

The context of the rise of human civilization. True we can not match the damage done by some of the catastrophic events of the past. But we can certainly demonstrate that the rise of modern society has been mostly detrimental to the natural world. Even if you ignore the whole global warming issue you still have mass deforestation, water and air pollution, over-hunting, over-fishing, introduction of invasive species, excessive use of pesticides herbicides and fertilizers etc. Just our garbage alone is a major problem. But like I said I feel like we are reaching a tipping point with our knowledge and technology. I believe that sooner rather than later we will become true caretakers of the planet rather than just users.

Well, I wouldn't lose too much sleep worrying whether the Earth can recover from humans.

That's not my point. My point is that going forward humans are the only species capable of recognizing obstacles to the continued survival of the current life on the planet. And we are actually capable (or will be in the future) of of overcoming most of those obstacles. In this way we can preserve what we have which is the conditions that support us and life like us. This means that although we have been detrimental to most other life on the planet for the duration of our rise to civilization, we can actually change that trend now.

The earth will be fine. It will continue doing its thing regardless of what we do. But we're not just talking about the well-being of the earth here. We're also talking about the well-being of the current life on the planet, ourselves included. The well-being of most other species has historically declined as we rose to become the dominant species on earth. I think that trend could possibly change now because not only do we have the knowledge and the technology to make it happen, but we've finally come to the realization as a society that our well-being is unavoidably tied to the well-being of our environment. If it dies, we die. And so now we have both the capability and motivation to make a real positive change.

Nature does not discriminate what life is more valuable than others. And nature has historically killed off far more biomass and species than humans can ever hope to accomplish.

Humans actually have a bio-reproduction problem; and in many instances, problems of overfarming/cultivating the land to create life that humans think is "good."

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the destruction of life caused by humans either.
fromantle
Posts: 274
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10/21/2015 6:02:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 9:29:40 AM, logical-master123 wrote:
White Fang

One of the main themes in Part 1 of White Fang is nature v.s. humans. In this theme, nature is stronger. Nature is tryin g to beat the Humans. In the end the Humans die.

Yes a great book he was a thinker.
fromantle
Posts: 274
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10/21/2015 6:06:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 10:10:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Really the battle against Nature was over long ago when humans tamed its greatest predator, viruses, leading to a doubling of average human lifespans.

Man's greatest enemy now is himself, as there now exists no natural controls to prevent overpopulation and depletion of resources save starvation.

What a nasty battle that is going to be.

Not any more bacteria are developing immunity, just as Alexandra Fleming predicted.
Unless we quickly find effective antibiotics nearly all operations will cease.
fromantle
Posts: 274
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10/21/2015 6:15:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We are exceptional only in intelligence and technology but the battle for existence is consyant it can never be won and the greater the conquest the harder it becomes to maintain.
We have two deadly.problems at the moment: antibiotic resistance and climate change.
We seem more intent on exploring the cosmos than focusing on problems on earth..
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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10/21/2015 6:42:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/21/2015 12:26:15 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/21/2015 12:10:11 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 10/20/2015 6:08:38 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/20/2015 4:18:22 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 10/19/2015 10:07:02 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/19/2015 12:18:29 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
I think that historically we have caused more damage than benefit to this planet. However, I think that was largely due to simple ignorance. In most cases we didn't know any better until much of the damage was already done. But we have also historically corrected ourselves once we realized what was happening. The hole in the ozone layer is a good example. Once we realized there was a problem we took action and corrected it. The ozone layer has now recovered due to our self-correction. I believe that we are still capable of fixing most of what we've done. And I think we're currently in the process of that now. As we learn more I think that we will be fully capable of becoming caretakers of this planet. I do think that in the long term that humanity will be a beneficial species for this planet. After all who else is capable of things such as deflecting asteroids or affecting the climate? We are the only species capable of foreseeing, preparing for, and mitigating major extinction disasters.

In what historical context are you referring to? Humans have no hope of possibly matching Chicxulub even with the detonation of every nuke in optimal spots around the globe....

The context of the rise of human civilization. True we can not match the damage done by some of the catastrophic events of the past. But we can certainly demonstrate that the rise of modern society has been mostly detrimental to the natural world. Even if you ignore the whole global warming issue you still have mass deforestation, water and air pollution, over-hunting, over-fishing, introduction of invasive species, excessive use of pesticides herbicides and fertilizers etc. Just our garbage alone is a major problem. But like I said I feel like we are reaching a tipping point with our knowledge and technology. I believe that sooner rather than later we will become true caretakers of the planet rather than just users.

Well, I wouldn't lose too much sleep worrying whether the Earth can recover from humans.

That's not my point. My point is that going forward humans are the only species capable of recognizing obstacles to the continued survival of the current life on the planet. And we are actually capable (or will be in the future) of of overcoming most of those obstacles. In this way we can preserve what we have which is the conditions that support us and life like us. This means that although we have been detrimental to most other life on the planet for the duration of our rise to civilization, we can actually change that trend now.

The earth will be fine. It will continue doing its thing regardless of what we do. But we're not just talking about the well-being of the earth here. We're also talking about the well-being of the current life on the planet, ourselves included. The well-being of most other species has historically declined as we rose to become the dominant species on earth. I think that trend could possibly change now because not only do we have the knowledge and the technology to make it happen, but we've finally come to the realization as a society that our well-being is unavoidably tied to the well-being of our environment. If it dies, we die. And so now we have both the capability and motivation to make a real positive change.

Nature does not discriminate what life is more valuable than others. And nature has historically killed off far more biomass and species than humans can ever hope to accomplish.


I know that. But I don't care what nature cares about, because it doesn't care about anything. I care what people care about. And what we care about is creating a good place to live for us and our children and grandchildren. We now know that a good place for us to live is a place with a so-called healthy environment with balanced relationships between people and the flora and fauna of the region. The fact that we have the ability like no other animal to create and maintain the conditions necessary for this kind of environment is a boon for us and for the other living things in our environment. Yes nature itself doesn't care. But that doesn't change the fact that its beneficial to us and to other living things (even if those living things don't have the ability to realize it).

Humans actually have a bio-reproduction problem; and in many instances, problems of overfarming/cultivating the land to create life that humans think is "good."

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the destruction of life caused by humans either.

What's your point here anyway?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,311
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10/21/2015 7:43:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/21/2015 6:42:31 PM, JMcKinley wrote:

What's your point here anyway?

My point is humans are too efficient at cheating death, outpacing natural viral and bacterial mutations with technology, and cultivating life from abiotic resources that no other living thing on the planet could ever possibly hope to convert as efficiently to biotic life.

That is our problem. We just don't view it as a problem.
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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10/22/2015 1:04:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/21/2015 7:43:53 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/21/2015 6:42:31 PM, JMcKinley wrote:

What's your point here anyway?

My point is humans are too efficient at cheating death, outpacing natural viral and bacterial mutations with technology, and cultivating life from abiotic resources that no other living thing on the planet could ever possibly hope to convert as efficiently to biotic life.

That is our problem. We just don't view it as a problem.

You're right. I don't see that as a problem at all. I see that as a very good thing. How exactly do you think those things are problems?
Aayankhan
Posts: 8
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10/26/2015 5:47:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Human spends billions of dollars looking for life on other planets, and spend trillions of dollars killing this one. Life is temporary while death is constant.
fromantle
Posts: 274
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10/26/2015 7:13:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/26/2015 5:47:19 AM, Aayankhan wrote:
Human spends billions of dollars looking for life on other planets, and spend trillions of dollars killing this one. Life is temporary while death is constant.

Very true our great progress is conected to our fascination with the workings of the world but it could well contribute to the fragmentation of civilisation.We have wondering minds that cannot focus on essentials. Life itself is resiliant we survived the black death without antibiotics. To me the most irritating part about humans is th eir self confidence that. they are in control.